Good loot locked behind mundane tasks!

[ActionPoohole]

Hi,

Credit Farming: Clearly there are some chronic problems with the way that loot is obtained... Credits are locked behind one of the most boring places: Index. There are other ways, but for general purpose credit farming, Index: It is horrifically designed and creates this illogical "Get yourself killed now" mechanic to feed points back to the enemy. It is stressful and depressing to wait around for that. This needs to be fixed.

KUVA Farming: Running standard missions of types that we do not enjoy doing. Spy missions? Easy, no challenge... No reward for bypassing if the challenge was greater... Go invisible, hack terminal with a cipher and repeat. (Please don't suggest to NOT use cipher and not use stealth frame as that would make the duration of mundane KUVA task far greater) THEN you have to WAIT around for a KUVA siphon to finally decide to start sucking up KUVA... It takes so much time, patience and effort.. It is literally work and leaves you with a frown on your face after a few hours...(Compare this to an enjoyable survival or what not when it's all about testing weapons, looting and killing)

These 2 things are required for non fashion frame based end game and they are depressing. I am now thinking about taking a break because this is not fun at all. This is just depressing. If you agree with me, please post...

I am sick of fun things being locked behind the most mundane tasks. This game needs a huge overhaul in so many aspects because it doesn't feel enjoyable anymore, it feels like a pure addiction... and I'm about ready to kick the habit.

This really blows.

Edited January 2, 2018 by ActionPoohole

[GinKenshin]

sounds like you just need a break, dude.......

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Kuva i can understand. Granted, we have them in sorties now which is still up for debate wether it's a good thing or not, making kuva fortress enemies drop a little of kuva would make sense, or lock em in a spy vault or something.

Credits farming though? Index is not the only way. We have Raids, sorties (even more if you take advantage of the 'first mission of the day completed' on the 3rd sortie for maximum loot), oberon and harrow parts, quick defense runs like akkad, long defense/survivals for other loot, etc. I personally haven't have the need to farm credit since my newbie days, and i'm talking as a very very very casual player who haven't even played in almost a week (barely even on before the holidays due to stuff).

[Xion]

8 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

I am sick of fun things being locked behind the most mundane tasks.

It sounds like you don't like grinding. If that's the case, then boy, do I have news for you.

[Baterial]

credit farming is not locked only in one place, you can farm them by doing lor but it is slower

[ActionPoohole]

Just now, GinKenshin said:

sounds like you just need a break, dude.......

I have run survivals for 100s and 100s of hours with total enjoyment and relaxation. It's a great place to test weapons out and feel the pay off from working your weapons. It is enjoyable as there is some sort of challenge or yardstick to measure how good things are going..

But when I need credits or kuva, it is depressing. Many people agree with me... Suggesting I need a break because I think Kuva and credit farming are horrible isn't very constructive at all.

The only reasons I'd need a break is because the last couple of weeks have been a horrible chore. The Acolyte event was horrible. Not only was it timed horrifically during the Xmas holiday/family season etc... But it was a sit around and wait sort of thing which invaded peoples lives.. It was a toxic sort of event that time sinked you something hard... Not to mention the really toxic and hidden information that if you revive yourself if/when killed by an acolyte you will not get the mod drop... That was really uspetting for some when such a lot of hard "work" was put into it.

These issues are so easily fixed, but there's no point in me sitting here writing all my ideas out unless DE will actually respond first to ask for suggestions and show they're interested in our feedback.

None of my friends what to do index, none of them find it fun. None of my friends enjoy Hydron, They call it "Boredron". And none of them enjoy farming Kuva... So gathering XP fast is boring, Gathering Credits fast is boring and Gathering KUVA fast is boring. Why do these tasks have to be so mundane. There are ways to fix this, I can guarantee you... But I will take the time to give this information if/when DE actually get interested in fixing their game up.

It has so much going for it, but it becomes depressing when you actually want to make some decent end game progress... End game is meant to be where it's at... But it's locked behind these horrifically poorly designed aspects of gameplay.

[YUNoJump]

It's worth noting that in just about every single MMO-esque game available, especially F2P ones, "endgame" features more grinding than any other part of the game. It's designed that way to keep veteran players playing for as long as possible. Grinding is part and parcel of endgame, and it's not going to go away, especially if you want the most efficient pathway to NOT be grinding.

My method for reducing the grind is to slow down my progression. I haven't done credit or Kuva grinding in weeks; because instead of speeding towards every big thing (eg maxing out every Primed mod, completing every Sortie, spending ages in loot caves to farm Prime parts), I just go with whatever I feel like for the day. Don't strain yourself to do as much as possible and expect to stay in a healthy mindset, just play until you aren't having fun for the day and then go do something else, or stick to the gameplay you find fun. It's not a race.

[Tsardova]

7 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

I have run survivals for 100s and 100s of hours with total enjoyment and relaxation. It's a great place to test weapons out and feel the pay off from working your weapons. It is enjoyable as there is some sort of challenge or yardstick to measure how good things are going..

But when I need credits or kuva, it is depressing. Many people agree with me... Suggesting I need a break because I think Kuva and credit farming are horrible isn't very constructive at all.

The only reasons I'd need a break is because the last couple of weeks have been a horrible chore. The Acolyte event was horrible. Not only was it timed horrifically during the Xmas holiday/family season etc... But it was a sit around and wait sort of thing which invaded peoples lives.. It was a toxic sort of event that time sinked you something hard... Not to mention the really toxic and hidden information that if you revive yourself if/when killed by an acolyte you will not get the mod drop... That was really uspetting for some when such a lot of hard "work" was put into it.

These issues are so easily fixed, but there's no point in me sitting here writing all my ideas out unless DE will actually respond first to ask for suggestions and show they're interested in our feedback.

None of my friends what to do index, none of them find it fun. None of my friends enjoy Hydron, They call it "Boredron". And none of them enjoy farming Kuva... So gathering XP fast is boring, Gathering Credits fast is boring and Gathering KUVA fast is boring. Why do these tasks have to be so mundane. There are ways to fix this, I can guarantee you... But I will take the time to give this information if/when DE actually get interested in fixing their game up.

It has so much going for it, but it becomes depressing when you actually want to make some decent end game progress... End game is meant to be where it's at... But it's locked behind these horrifically poorly designed aspects of gameplay.

Then... take a break...

if you wanna do things you like while farming something you look forward to per se then you got nothing to complain about even if it's not optimal.

Vice versa if a task feels mundane but the payoff is good then you got nothing to complain... just appreciate the little things. Can't have everything go your way really. :/ You have to admit that this is a nitpick over anything else. Go do these "mundane" missions with mates, chat along the way, pull some shenanigans, anything to break the monotony.

[(PSN)xxVINxx]

I decided fairly early on that I hated farming kuva only to keep getting terrible rolls. The missions were not enjoyable. The rng rolls laughing in my face on rivens were just as bad. 

My solution was to farm prime parts and rare mods in order to earn enough plat to just straight up buy whatever Riven I wanted. 

It has saved my sanity, and my enjoyment of this game has remained intact. 

[ActionPoohole]

5 minutes ago, Xion said:

It sounds like you don't like grinding. If that's the case, then boy, do I have news for you.

Should I expect more than unsubstantiated replies like this? I have been grinding the game like hell for 100s of hours... Grinding doesn't have to be this tedious.. There's nothing wrong with putting enjoyable mechanics into the grind... Please say something useful.

The makes us wait around ridiculously at the end for NO reason. We have already won, yet there is this stupid timer... So we have to gather more points and then get ourselves wrecked on purpose. That is completely illogical, counter intuitive, slow, probably goes entirely against game lore and is just wrong... What game rewards you for getting wrecked? It's just ridiculous... Defense missions are decent, Survivals are great. Spy missions are fine if you're in the mood for them...

But when you're thrown into an arena that makes you win the game, then forces you to wait around AFTER WINNING... Which then forces you to do it all again and then get yourself killed like idiots... Why on earth are we getting ourselves killed on purpose? It's just madness and horribly designed.

As for KUVA... It's the same missions again, except we don't get to enjoy said style of mission as you have to cut it short. Example: Run a survival KUVA... Finish the survival and leave.. We can't stay longer to attempt to gather more KUVA?  ... We have to wait around for the Siphon to point in directions... It's just a purposely designed time sink jammed smack bang in the middle of a random mission... Why would we have to break into data vaults to allow us to take the KUVA home? It makes no sense and it's boring.... It takes multiple missions of this boring and time consuming farming to do a single roll after you've done 10... It takes a lot of rolls to get a specific roll. It seems that this horrible design is there to keep plat sales going... There are better ways to reward players than this... People charge an exorbitant amount of plat for something that someone else could luck out and get in less than a couple of rolls.

The system stinks... There is obviously a better way to allow everyone to enjoy Riven mods and etc... It doesn't have to be so boring.

Survival missions are not at all boring for me and my friends, but when we want to do Riven mods or buy stuff from Baro... It's always back to Index or Kuva... and we all hate it to death and often neglect that portion of the game... The portion that is so fun to enjoy... But so horribly awful to achieve... I've never heard anyone say "I love the index" or "I love Kuva farming"..

I always hear people say "I love survival" or "I love defense missions"  ....

Please say something constructive.. Because obviously a break is needed from this utter boredom.

 

[Kyoresh]

27 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

stressful and depressing

Lets agree on just boring. Okay? Doesnt sound that dramatic

[ActionPoohole]

12 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

It's worth noting that in just about every single MMO-esque game available, especially F2P ones, "endgame" features more grinding than any other part of the game. It's designed that way to keep veteran players playing for as long as possible. Grinding is part and parcel of endgame, and it's not going to go away, especially if you want the most efficient pathway to NOT be grinding.

My method for reducing the grind is to slow down my progression. I haven't done credit or Kuva grinding in weeks; because instead of speeding towards every big thing (eg maxing out every Primed mod, completing every Sortie, spending ages in loot caves to farm Prime parts), I just go with whatever I feel like for the day. Don't strain yourself to do as much as possible and expect to stay in a healthy mindset, just play until you aren't having fun for the day and then go do something else, or stick to the gameplay you find fun. It's not a race.

I've done it with Wow... I've done it with tonnes of games... I think the point is being entirely misread and undervalued. Grinding is fun when it's not poorly designed. Index and Kuva are poorly designed. They were only fun for the first couple of times till you realise how easy they are.

Survivals/Defense are fun... No matter how many hours put into them... It's great to grind because you can push further... Kuva and Index is just tedious repetition.

Please respond to this point which I just made rather than pointing out arbitrary points that don't relate to my post.

I will be happy and relaxed to sit in a survival for hours... I sat in Void survival with my friend for 123 minutes and only left because he had un levelled gear on and we couldn't keep up.

Grinding isn't the issue, Kuva and Index... They are horribly designed and tedious.. They were never fun or even acceptable apart from the first few times till you realise how badly designed the end game timer is.

Kuva jams you into missions with a time sink attached to them... It's awful.

[Entharias]

To be honest, i don't get why endless missions simply don't reward the player the credits for each round/wave/etc.
For example: i do Akkad, every 5 waves = 25k credits, so instead of leaving at 5, i can stay for a lot longer and enjoy some endurance runs.

[(XBOX)Mechanomaly]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

(even more if you take advantage of the 'first mission of the day completed' on the 3rd sortie for maximum loot)

Is that even possible when Sorties reset everyday?

[ActionPoohole]

1 hour ago, Kyoresh said:

Lets agree on just boring. Okay? Doesnt sound that dramatic

My opinion is my opinion, it's stressful and depressing... My friends agree with me and they all sound unhappy after an hour or so of it... They don't sound like that when doing survivals or what not, everyone is happy running around smashing enemies and enjoying it...

Index punishes you for for pushing the envelope. Punished for exceeding? Okay... You have to hit a certain target then reduce it after ... It's ridiculous.. Horribly designed. 100%

Edited January 2, 2018 by ActionPoohole

[ActionPoohole]

1 minute ago, Nakrast said:

To be honest, i don't get why endless missions simply don't reward the player the credits for each round/wave/etc.
For example: i do Akkad, every 5 waves = 25k credits, so instead of leaving at 5, i can stay for a lot longer and enjoy some endurance runs.

Yeah, exactly... Even if it came every 20 waves as an endurance reward so we don't have to do index and can be rewarded for our endurance...

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

I actually like Kuva missions myself. They're a lot more entertaining with resource boosters.

Credits I 100% agree with though. I hate credit farming, especially index. Credits are always something I'm low on and constantly needing to grind. I make a ton of plat through transmutation and that's an expensive hobby lol. But that also means that I have no credits when I need to level a new primed mod.

[ActionPoohole]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)xxVINxx said:

I decided fairly early on that I hated farming kuva only to keep getting terrible rolls. The missions were not enjoyable. The rng rolls laughing in my face on rivens were just as bad. 

My solution was to farm prime parts and rare mods in order to earn enough plat to just straight up buy whatever Riven I wanted. 

It has saved my sanity, and my enjoyment of this game has remained intact. 

Yeah, that may be true... But some of us want to earn our rolls... But earn it through enjoyable play... Putting effort into something doesn't mean it has to be a horrible experience... It's like doing art or riding a bike... You put effort into it, but it's not a horrible experience.. It's a nice experience... Effort and tedium don't go hand in hand... With KUVA farming and index, they specifically do go hand in hand... And it seems to be designed specifically for this purpose... Who could possibly think that reaching the goal of the index would leave you waiting around for 3-5 minutes... It's an absolute joke of a mechanic and needs to be abolished from the game at once.

KUVA farming needs to be tied into survivals etc... Specifically as endurance rewards, not some ridiculous time sink smacked into the middle of random missions that many don't want to do.

[Xion]

2 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

I have been grinding the game like hell for 100s of hours

Playing a survival mission for countless hours doesn't qualify as grinding if you're not doing it to obtain something that gives you some type of gameplay advantage. Your sprees in survival are just your way of having fun. One could even argue that, depending on the type of survival missions you do, that's the biggest time sink that you've put yourselves into.

6 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

It takes multiple missions of this boring and time consuming farming to do a single roll after you've done 10.

THIS is grind, that repetitive nature of one specific grueling task is what everyone who plays this game needs to get used to. Now, I'm not saying that I think Kuva missions are designed well or even the acolyte resting period after each appearance, believe me when I say that I know the struggles of sitting around and waiting for a good mission to pop up in the fissures. I'm just saying that grinding is a part of the game that you absolutely need to accept and get used to or else you'll just end up falling behind.

[ActionPoohole]

Just now, (PS4)KingGuy420 said:

I actually like Kuva missions myself. They're a lot more entertaining with resource boosters.

Credits I 100% agree with though. I hate credit farming, especially index. Credits are always something I'm low on and constantly needing to grind. I make a ton of plat through transmutation and that's an expensive hobby lol. But that also means that I have no credits when I need to level a new primed mod.

Each to their own... I don't mind the Kuva portion itself... I do mind that they're tied into missions that I don't want to do and that I can only do 1 flood every so often.

I would love to just turn up and steal the Kuva, then leave... I would love it if you had the potential to earn more kuva... I'm also tired of earning the exact same kuva amount per game...

Why can't we earn a bit of KUVA while doing things we enjoy rather than how it is now?  I think that certain arguments I've seen in the past about it effecting the plat economy if they made KUVA farming more enjoyable is just stupidity. True or not? It's just stupidity that it could be a point to begin with.

[Shifty_Shuffler]

I have to agree with you over the Index, it just seems backwards that we have to start getting ourselves killed to speed up the timer. Just feels like an awkward mechanic to try and slow us down.

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

7 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

I do mind that they're tied into missions that I don't want to do

See, I enjoy doing those mission types, so Kuva gives me an excuse to play them. After I finish the sortie, if there's no fissures for them, there's no reason to play them outside of Kuva. I dislike unused content, Kuva gives it a use. What am I gonna do? Play Survival, Defense, and Excavation all day? I don't think so.

[ActionPoohole]

3 minutes ago, Xion said:

Playing a survival mission for countless hours doesn't qualify as grinding if you're not doing it to obtain something that gives you some type of gameplay advantage. Your sprees in survival are just your way of having fun. One could even argue that, depending on the type of survival missions you do, that's the biggest time sink that you've put yourselves into.

THIS is grind, that repetitive nature of one specific grueling task is what everyone who plays this game needs to get used to. Now, I'm not saying that I think Kuva missions are designed well or even the acolyte resting period after each appearance, believe me when I say that I know the struggles of sitting around and waiting for a good mission to pop up in the fissures. I'm just saying that grinding is a part of the game that you absolutely need to accept and get used to or else you'll just end up falling behind.

Could you please make your point about what you're trying to point out? I'm stating that it sucks and that it needs to have some sort of rework. Sitting here and accepting it doesn't lead to any sort of change. Either say you think it's good or bad. Don't point out that it is what it is as I am currently here on the forums doing that already. I'm stating clearly that the game pushes people into lagging behind in their movement towards deeper end game content due to the tedious/monotonous time sink tedium that Index and KUVA farming really are. What you're saying is just really not constructive at all and doesn't add anything to the point. You're basically repeating what I'm saying then telling me to accept it.. That really makes no sense.

I think you could have a think about what you write and why so we can have a discussion rather than ... whatever it is you're posting that for.

If you're happy to just tell people to accept horrible facets of the game then you really are providing nothing to the discussion apart from the acceptance of stagnation... And nobody, including the developers need that.

[ActionPoohole]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)KingGuy420 said:

See, I enjoy doing those mission types, so Kuva gives me an excuse to play them. After I finish the sortie, if there's no fissures for them, there's no reason to play them outside of Kuva. I dislike unused content, Kuva gives it a use. What am I gonna do? Play Survival, Defense, and Excavation all day? I don't think so.

Enjoyment should be a reason? But obviously they're not enjoyable enough to do without reward. So why tag them onto KUVA farming for no apparent reason apart from laziness to create a new game mode.

I could sit down and brainstorm a better game mode in probably a day and wouldn't take much longer than a week to refine it. But that point could come if only the devs would communicate that with us (which is not the biggest problem in the game right now).

I think the priorities are all wrong. Content being piled on top of a game that has great need of an overhaul seems ludicrous to me... Don't get me wrong, I love this game.. But the hindrance of end game just seems wrong. I've not experienced that sort of extreme tedium in other games.

[ActionPoohole]

18 minutes ago, Shifty_Shuffler said:

I have to agree with you over the Index, it just seems backwards that we have to start getting ourselves killed to speed up the timer. Just feels like an awkward mechanic to try and slow us down.

That's exactly what it is. For no other reason would anybody in their right mind make us get wrecked to win. That's just ludicrous and tedious. :(

The only time I've enjoyed getting wrecked to win was on the Burnout race series Crash mode or Saints Row Insurance fraud... At least you had a reason to, could be creative and got rewarded for doing so..

Index doesn't reward you, it just slows the game down and causes new players to wonder what on EARTH is going on?!