Dev Workshop Warframe Changes and Matchmaking

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, Volinus7 said:

It's just an "explanation" why people want to be efficient, nothing particularly tied to how they nerf. Nerf mentioned at the first part was under an assumption that DE don't like trivialization. 

It's not important whether players are lazy or not, they want to be efficient because they don't want to waste time on the actions they don't like. 

 

Also DE can't exterminate all trivializer in Warframe completely at the same time, because trivialization and efficiency help people cope with repetitive grinding. 

its very important that players are lazy or not. if they were not, we wouldnt have these several threads crying that their toys are taken away.

[Volinus7]

5 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

its very important that players are lazy or not. if they were not, we wouldnt have these several threads crying that their toys are taken away.

DE analytics can't distinguish lazy trivialization and non lazy trivialization anyway, they wouldn't care about it. 

[Zeclem]

2 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

DE analytics can't distinguish lazy trivialization and non lazy trivialization anyway, they wouldn't care about it. 

yeah thats why they just nerfed the lazy trivialization that also severely damage other peoples game experience.

cus they dont know what is lazy trivialization or not. 

definitely.

that was sarcasm if it was not obvious.

[JohnKable]

The real core problem is that the "regular" gameplay is not rewarding, at all.

Players are forced to rush through missions and exploit whatever they can because otherwise the game has a really awful time/reward rate.

Unless you constantly run a booster or exploit certain missions, the simple leveling up of weapons is a pain ( and i wont mention focus farming)

Same goes for credits, and ducats farming is even worse because you cant help yourself with a booster. Instead you run fast fissures blazing through with ember (and the reward/time rate is still bad)

And there are alot of mods with 0,002% droprate. How and when are we supposed to get those unless we camp for half an hour killing the most enemies we can in this time?

The core problem is the grind. Make regular gameplay rewarding, and find the way to make it more rewarding than just rushing through missions. And get rid of the end of mission scoreboard, too many people look at that and complain only based on that. (or atleast make it personal only)

I agree with certain nerfs, no weapon or frames should be powerful enough to take away every possible interaction for the other squad members. But as long as the grind will be unbearable, and rushing will be the best way to feel you got something for your time, rush players will always exist and will always find the most efficient way to do a certain thing. Because they are forced to, not because they want to at any cost.

For example as i started playing in the plains i enjoyed doing bounties because i felt it was rewarding even if are something i couldnt rush through.
But after 2 weeks i had my ostron standing nearly maxed and nothing useful could drop anymore from any bounty. except cetus wisps, that i can gather quicker with quick specific tours of the plains. now i dont run bounties anymore because there is no reward for me there, atleast not worth the time they are asking.

Edited February 3, 2018 by JohnKable

[Volinus7]

19 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

yeah thats why they just nerfed the lazy trivialization that also severely damage other peoples game experience.

cus they dont know what is lazy trivialization or not. 

definitely.

that was sarcasm if it was not obvious.

It's the people that they can't distinguish not the stuffs they nerf. 

How can analytics tell the ratio of lazy people/non lazy people who use the same trivialization method? 

 

If you tie the word lazy to stuffs they nerf anyone can do that too subjectively, do you imply that DE nerf things regardless of reasons? Someone could even say 99% of warframe abilities are lazy and turn the whole game into tps counter strike. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Volinus7

[Zeclem]

13 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

It's the people that they can't distinguish not the stuffs they nerf. 

How can analytics tell the ratio of lazy people/non lazy people who use the same trivialization method? 

 

If you tie the word lazy to stuffs they nerf anyone can do that too subjectively, infinite futile flame war. 

why would they care about whos doing what exactly? if its being done then thats all that matters. not who is doing or anything at all. 

[phoenix1992]

Forcing people to run low missions because the game has not gotten higher tier content for over 2 years is not the issue.

The players are.

[Volinus7]

Just now, Zeclem said:

why would they care about whos doing what exactly? if its being done then thats all that matters. not who is doing or anything at all. 

That's why I said it's not important. 

[Zeclem]

2 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

That's why I said it's not important. 

except what you said was something completely different. you were saying they couldnt differentiate between lazy play and non lazy play. thats no shape way or form relevant to that.

[Volinus7]

22 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

except what you said was something completely different. you were saying they couldnt differentiate between lazy play and non lazy play. thats no shape way or form relevant to that.

I meant "people". "Lazy" is the label for people not some non sentient beings or things. 

Who could be labeled as lazy? a person who grinds non stop to collect everything in Warframe as fastest as possible via various cheeses and trivializations or a person who play at slow pace and doesn't care about collecting everything but also doesn't use any trivialization? 

None of them. And no, not 100% of Warframe is boring, that's why trivialization is used to cut down the boring parts to accent the good parts. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Volinus7

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, Volinus7 said:

I meant "people". "Lazy" is the label for people not some non sentient beings or things. 

ah so that argument was pointless from the start. rip.

[rudman88]

Well i simply dont have the time anymore to grind or do it at slow pace.

First of all, whats the point of nerfing. It is kjust a waste fo time. If eq A got nerfed, i will jsut mod Eq B to make it OP. Most of the time, that will be the same cycle.

 

Is just the amount of time and plat wasted to get a good riven end up wasted because the weapon is nerfed. This really demotivates me to go any further or invest more time.

Is jsut totally pointless to forma and spend on riven where end up the weapon become trash.

 

Until today i dont get it what this slow / lazy keyboard warrior talking about slow pace being meaningfull.

 

1. You are doing the same god damn thing. Whats meaningfull about that ?

Is the same tileset, farming the same thing and doing the same thing.

if you slow pace people enjoy doing the same thing for 3 hrs where you can do 2 times faster with same result, you guys must be really bored or purely have nothing to do.

i find them to be such a drag that i start muting these guys so i dont have to see them.

I really enjoy seing those cheesers doing all the work and show their hard work with their  OP chars. It makes me respect them more and want to learn from them.

Not these slow baggage that only knows how to drag people down and forever at the bottom because they are too slow to catch up.

 

2. They create mods to make it OP

Warframe is designed for you to be OP in PVE. Most weapon in Warframe can be OP as long you mod it properly.

Except some weapon are pure trash which nobody ever mentioned about upgrading these trash.

well they got riven to balance these trash weapon ( fair enough )

so good weapon with poor riven is not balance but still OP ?

 

3. Efficiency

Well not everyone has the luxury to sit all day grind the same thing at low efficiency method.

If you can cheese it through with least effort, why not ?

We will be doing the same thing any way, is just a choice of fast or slow.

Nobody force you to do what you dont like to do.

If you want it to be at your own pace, go solo que or team with people who got the same mentality with yours.

 

4. Nerf

This nerf nonsense only become really active in 2017

Prior to that, Warframe just keep on introducing new more OP weapon than before. Which most of my friends find it interesting.

With the nerf rubbish, most of my friends find it pointless to make a weapon OP and just leave it as it is without going any further.

 

To solve all this issue, why Not DE create a filter for matchmaking based on Mastery, and what frame cant join. This will cater for every one.

 

you want it slow, disable all nuking frame,

you dont want beginner to spoil your game, min mastery 15

 

[AcidicGhost]

17 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

When the laziest gameplay is the most effective gameplay, it tells the playerbase that their greatest efforts are not rewarded with the greatest rewards, and that they shouldn't bother with full engagement.

 

The entire game is a series of dice rolls stacked on top of each other. Greater effort has zero impact on the loot rolls. If they want to keep people engaged, make engaging content instead of forcing high MR players into low level nitain alerts as a time sink. 

[SenorClipClop]

5 hours ago, AcidicGhost said:

 

The entire game is a series of dice rolls stacked on top of each other. Greater effort has zero impact on the loot rolls. If they want to keep people engaged, make engaging content instead of forcing high MR players into low level nitain alerts as a time sink. 

The issue has more than one facet. One is about ensuring the game rewards engagement by valuing effort and devaluing lazy gameplay. Another facet is making rewards meaningful.Yet another is giving players the opportunity to play at levels of challenge they desire and giving reason to do so (like with Nitain). In my opinion, if you're at the point of playing large amounts of cheese builds to get through the game without paying attention, you're most likely burnt out and need to take a break from Warframe. (Another facet of this game that could be addressed is streamlining the grind so as not to have so many players falling into burnt out states. It's doable on your own, but playing online games in a healthy way is a skill in itself, with which designers can help guide players.)

Whatever the case, effortless gameplay outputting the most effective results sorely needs changing.

Edited February 4, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[Misgenesis]

Matchmaking so obviously is not the core issue. Matching high MR players with similar level MR players does not balance gear that is capable of trivializing content, encounters and designs DE has made. As a game developer, why put in the effort to make more complex and challenging mission/enemy designs when players can just erase all the complexity and challenge?

DE is obviously putting in the effort, so we in return should not be able to trivialize that. That would be poor game design.

There is also the fact that this is a free to play online PvE looter shooter where DE depends on various ways to incentivize players to spend money. One of these ways is gating rewards behind time and challenge through mission and enemy design.

Here's a flawed edit of your image to better represent what the issue is.

Spoiler

 

[Soketsu]

Yeah so better change equipement one by one according to trivial content and keep releasing new stuff, praying people to not find the most efficent way to farm and never settle your issue, good idea...