PoE destroyed Chroma

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

Just now, CaptainZgred said:

Rhino? Nope. Not even close even after considering roar.

Mesa? Yeah, gets pretty close although excluding most of the "weakpoint" enemies.

Ivara? No.

Wukong? Maybe operator in void mode too in that case?

Loki? Since when Chroma is a crowd control frame?

 

Also, you would probably love to see bosses adjusted so that they take less damage from chroma specifically, right? What about the rest of the enemies? Are you going to adjust every last one of them so that Chroma does not do to them what he does now as efficiently? Then why not adjust Chroma?

-------

What are you taking about?
Rhino buffs damage for everyone. Not as strong but much easier to use. Possibly higher overall with a team. 

Wukong. Is his 4th not affected by his melee? I thought that was the point of him. Same with Ivara. 

But I digress. Adjust enemies? What are you rambling about? If DE doesn't want an enemy to killed easily then make so, Manics great example that's not just for Chroma its the way enemy works. 

 

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

3 minutes ago, Kiwinille said:

Yet I can't find any of those frames 1shoting every limb and the Teralyst. None of them is nearly close to a broken buff that lets them 1shot them, specially with no effort and on their own. Please if you have any video or something, share.

Tyr Regor is no different than any other 'hit X% hp boss", except he just jumps away instead of just waiting on his grey bar face. Again, why adjust a boss with more complicated mechanics, and with their direction of adding new big boss fights, when they could fix the problem (before anyone jumps again with the 'why now and not 3 years earlier, it's has already been said, it made no difference before). It's not hard for me at all, I accept all changes (I use Banshee and Ember a lot for example). I'm not clinging to any cheesing method and trying to deny or find an excuse to keep it, there's no logic reason for it.

Clinging to any cheesing method? You seem to think I go Teralyst hunting. That's not the case, I don't have a stake in that. 

I see now that you're content to say whatever you want regardless of wether it makes sense or not. No effort? Cause time and forma don't count. Let alone gathering mods and crafting weapons. You argue that we should just be weakened to make way for new bosses instead of making new bosses stronger. More complicated mechanics? A damage cap sounds pretty simple, and it already exists. 

I'm glad you have no appreciation for dedication to a frame or weapon but some of us do. 

Frankly it's funny that you're trying to force change on Chroma players because you don't care if it happens to you. 

As for one hitting limbs. You want me go and create a video for you. No, because then guys like you will go ahead and say nerf it because it's too good. 

[Vanille]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Leviathan6 said:

Clinging to any cheesing method? You seem to think I go Teralyst hunting. That's not the case, I don't have a stake in that. 

I see now that you're content to say whatever you want regardless of wether it makes sense or not. No effort? Cause time and forma don't count. Let alone gathering mods and crafting weapons. You argue that we should just be weakened to make way for new bosses instead of making new bosses stronger. More complicated mechanics? A damage cap sounds pretty simple, and it already exists. 

I'm glad you have no appreciation for dedication to a frame or weapon but some of us do. 

Frankly it's funny that you're trying to force change on Chroma players because you don't care if it happens to you. 

As for one hitting limbs. You want me go and create a video for you. No, because then guys like you will go ahead and say nerf it because it's too good. 

Then, why do you, or any Chroma player, care if he gets fixed with less damage, it will make no difference for him outside of PoE where his extremely broken buff and bug fix has no impact.
I have used more than 150 formas so far, and I know that "time and forma" aren't that big of a deal, it's nothing special and different than any other player has to do with other frames. I for example forma'd Ash 5 times today in a couple of hours, and that was because I leveled while doing fissures instead of exp focused missions like bere or hydron. Gathering mods and weapons, that are used on every other warframe? trying to make it sound like it's an exclusive build farm that only Chroma uses?

I'm not trying to force change on Chroma players, because it's pointless and because I don't have to. I'm trying to reason with you/them to accept it, just like we accept changes to other stuff we use, specially if it's a fix that addresses a specific point that suddenly no one cares about (Teralyst), which is the only thing that the fix affects. There is no logic in trying to defend an unintended abuse, claiming it will destroy your frame, when it will not. Except it already did, in ways that do affect a normal mission gameplay, but I accept it.

That's too bad you don't want to. Having claims without proof and denying to provide them won't make any use on arguments. I tried to look for them, found none and I believe some special snowflakes out there trying to be different than the meta Chroma and show off would have made some videos about them, specially when even their damage and buff formulas give them nothing close compared to Chroma's broken buff.

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

2 minutes ago, Kiwinille said:

Then, why do you, or any Chroma player, care if he gets fixed with less damage, it will make no difference for him outside of PoE where his extremely broken buff and bug fix has no impact.
I have used more than 150 formas so far, and I know that "time and forma" aren't that big of a deal, it's nothing special and different than any other player has to do with other frames. I for example forma'd Ash 5 times today in a couple of hours, and that was because I leveled while doing fissures instead of exp focused missions like bere or hydron. Gathering mods and weapons, that are used on every other warframe? trying to make it sound like it's an exclusive build farm that only Chroma uses?

I'm not trying to force change on Chroma players, because it's pointless and because I don't have to. I'm trying to reason with you/them to accept it, just like we accept changes to other stuff we use, specially if it's a fix that addresses a specific point that suddenly no one cares about (Teralyst), which is the only thing that the fix affects. There is no logic in trying to defend an unintended abuse, claiming it will destroy your frame, when it will not. Except it already did, in ways that do affect a normal mission gameplay, but I accept it.

That's too bad you don't want to. Having claims without proof and denying to provide them won't make any use on arguments. I tried to look for them, found none and I believe some special snowflakes out there trying to be different than the meta Chroma and show off would have made some videos about them, specially when even their damage and buff formulas give them nothing close compared to Chroma's broken buff.

Well some of us have lives buddy. So time is a factor. For example I don't have time for you. 

No evidence huh? I've made a pretty reasonable argument. It's you that just wants to be right for the sake of being right. If you can't be bothered to listen to reason then I can't be bothered with you. 

As for your normal missions. That is not what I'm talking about either. Chroma is a lot of fun when enemy scaling is in play, but I guess you can't appreciate that. 

As for unintended abuses. Enough time has past where DE's intent is manifested by their inaction and the expectation on chroma's power is reasonable. It doesn't make sense to overturn a long standing ability instead of adjusting an enemy that came out recently. 

 

[Vanille]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Leviathan6 said:

Well some of us have lives buddy. So time is a factor. For example I don't have time for you. 

No evidence huh? I've made a pretty reasonable argument. It's you that just wants to be right for the sake of being right. If you can't be bothered to listen to reason then I can't be bothered with you. 

As for your normal missions. That is not what I'm talking about either. Chroma is a lot of fun when enemy scaling is in play, but I guess you can't appreciate that. 

As for unintended abuses. Enough time has past where DE's intent is manifested by their inaction and the expectation on chroma's power is reasonable. It doesn't make sense to overturn a long standing ability instead of adjusting an enemy that came out recently. 

 

So taking a couple of hours to do something in a exclusively farming game is a sacrifice and something that only nolifers can do?

What pretty reasonable argument? for all you said I could use your same claiming argument that Trinity can 1shot Teralyst aswell, just because. Me trying to reason with people on broken bugs is trying to be right? I'm not trying to be right, heck I don't even have to try to, it's just using logic. And this is really ironic after all these posts, isn't it?

His fixed buff will still be powerful into enemy scaling on normal missions, just not completely broken. For his current buff to have a noticeable impact on scaling enemies comparing it with other frames, would need to be really late into an endless mission, implying that happens commongly to be used as an excuse to keep it broken.

It does completely sense to fix the issue, not the symptom. In your argument (for now), as Teralyst is the only boss that is abused by this, it would make complete sense. But Teralyst is just the first of many that are to come.

[(PSN)Leviathan6]

Just now, Kiwinille said:

So taking a couple of hours to do something in a exclusively farming game is a sacrifice and something that only nolifers can do?

What pretty reasonable argument? for all you said I could use your same claiming argument that Trinity can 1shot Teralyst aswell, just because. Me trying to reason with people on broken bugs is trying to be right? I'm not trying to be right, heck I don't even have to try to, it's just using logic. And this is really ironic after all these posts, isn't it?

His fixed buff will still be powerful into enemy scaling on normal missions, just not completely broken. For his current buff to have a noticeable impact on scaling enemies comparing it with other frames, would need to be really late into an endless mission, implying that happens commongly to be used as an excuse to keep it broken.

It does completely sense to fix the issue, not the symptom. In your argument (for now), as Teralyst is the only boss that is abused by this, it would make complete sense. But Teralyst is just the first of many that are to come.

After all these posts that's why it's time to stop. You aren't worth the time. You've made it very clear you cannot listen to reason. 

Really late, past the hour is when things get fun. You are not reasoning you are disregarding perfectly viable solutions. Further, you're stating one frame should get changed because its so broken against a single enemy, but you completely ignore the fact that other frames function in a similar fashion for damage modification. Chroma is just the most prominent example. 

Once again it does not make sense to change a long standing mechanic instead of adjusting a new one. I don't know why you are so consumed by the teralyst but you miss the bigger picture of chroma. As for these new enemies, am certain this issue appears in other frames, but if you need a video to show you that then you're flattering yourself by thinking I'd take the time to make one for you. 

 

[Duckboy3825]

DE has been planning to make changes to Chroma for a while.

[purdo84]

On 04/02/2018 at 3:43 AM, Kiwinille said:

Replace "good purpose" with "not intended abuse". They didn't rush to fix it because as they explained, it was complicated and it didn't affect any gameplay doing such high damage until a big boss fight was created, which made his buff bug a balance issue. So basically, people complaining about this bug fix (nerf they call it lol) are just people who only use Chorma for cheesing the eidolons. Shocker, now they'll have to play like everyone else in the game in order to kill Teralyst, except the can also buff other people now, the horror, literally unplayable!

This... besides there are so many bad chromas out there trying to do the whole one shot cheese and failing miserably. they all seem to blame my Trinity's long duration bless for interfering with their vex armour. Meanwhile I've already taken out the limb in 3-4 shots with my god riven Lanka in around 2-3 seconds. Sometimes when I see a chroma in my group I will hold off on the bless and give them a chance to prove they know what they're doing but more times than not they just die. So get good chroma and give me that damage buff already.

[(PSN)ParteeGarcia]

Completely agree. Instead of players getting creative and making their own squad builds and finding what works for themselves, they caved to a meta. And most of the time, when developers see a meta, they change it. It becomes a cheap way to go about the game and creates exclusions for other players.

HOWEVER, I completely understand why it occurred. It's not like players were trying to cheat; they were cashing in on an opportunity to be more efficient. Eidolon fights can be a lengthy and difficult battle and people want to get ahead on things. The economic incentives are the things DE should be paying attention to. Why did players do it and what did it do to the community? They should consider this in their patches as well because maybe they can alter some systems to help us along. I definitely saw this Chroma change coming.

Edited February 5, 2018 by (PS4)ParteeGarcia
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[Spectre-8]

I don't play Chroma , so I really don't care lol .

[K2k4]

On 2/3/2018 at 6:56 AM, ---Quill-Onkko--- said:

"terrible" i dont know about you but tier 5 bounties are a cake walk for my team when i 1shot every dropship the instant it spawns in

This is one of the most fun things to do in my opinion.  So sarisfying.

[VoxGray]

Build your Chroma right and you'll still one-shot the Teralyst. I know my setup will. But if we're being completely honest, this tweak changes nothing. I can one-shot the Teralyst even when I'm playing Harrow, if I bring the right setup. Chroma is getting the fix he's needed since he was implemented, and it will only serve to show DE that they've handed too much power out to the players for them to fix it by stamping down a single problem.

[Ham_Grenabe]

Shouldn't come as a surprise; PoE messed up a lot of things. 

[Educated_Beast]

With the proposed changes, vex armor will be such a pain to use, Chroma will not be played.  To get those buffs, you need to cause self damage.  This requires specialized weapons (personally prefer glaive type since secondaries take so long to swap) with specialized build so your not constantly killing yourself.  

 

To prevent this from being a major problem, max duration and max power is required (multiple forma build).  When you max duration, you lose all range.  Therefore you will NOT BE A TEAM PLAYER.  

 

The max power makes him very energy hungry limiting you to zenurik as well.  There is big drawbacks to this build as-is.  It is good for bosses and that's pretty much it.  

 

When these calculations are made, they need to increase base range so narrow minded doesn't absolutely destroy it.  Or alternately, increase base duration so narrow minded not required.  

 

TLDR - even max duration build requires max self damage ever minute to be relevant and shared range is so small it will not benefit any team members.  Otherwise, Rhino may still be buff lead as his range will actually hit team members (not to mention stupid easy to use).

Edited February 7, 2018 by Educated_Beast

[UrielColtan]

On 2/3/2018 at 7:04 AM, -Trey- said:

It's quite silly actually, they said they dont want Eidolons to be 1 shot but even Volt with lanka can 1 shot. He's not the only one either, Rhino can 1-2 shot.

You are just giving DE ideas for who to nerf next. Why do people think the "well look at this frame/weapon" argument is going to make DE change their mind as opposed to just doing more nerfs? This is what led to the likes of Gara originally getting nerfed in the first place.  Argue for improvements to the frame being nerfed, instead.

Edited February 7, 2018 by UrielColtan

[highestcrab3]

people complain about having no end game no difficulty edolons where designed to be more late game and difficult and now people are complaining that they wont be able to one shot like come on people do you want a challenge or not

[Educated_Beast]

12 minutes ago, highestcrab3 said:

people complain about having no end game no difficulty edolons where designed to be more late game and difficult and now people are complaining that they wont be able to one shot like come on people do you want a challenge or not

I wasn't complaining, I was just pointing out that the one specific chroma cold vex armor build requires specific gear and mods to make it work.  

 

With the proposed changes, that specific build will still do nice damage, but will not be a team player.  Rhino will be a better team frame because he can hit max damage boost without also needing max duration (easy to spam cast versus vex armor that requires self damage setup before each cast).  

 

It is misleading to say he is going to be a team player.  That is just not true.  Sure you can ditch the narrow minded (for better range), but no one is going to be recasting every 30 seconds for the team (also x2 energy intensive as that build requires blind rage).

 

It's not like rhino that can just push a button and everyone in area gets boost.  Rhino will just become the new meta build.  

 

Nothing changes but the frame, we take shortcuts because focus farming and crafting of relic sets is a huge grind.  

 

So I agree with the OP's point.  Chroma finally had a true niche use that he performed better than any other frame.  No other boss except maybe occasional sortie needed that kinda firepower, now he will be outclassed by much easier and just as effective rhino roar build.  

 

I'd prefer they just rework the butterfly frame in general.  It's a cool concept but not very well implemented.  

[highestcrab3]

9 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

I wasn't complaining, I was just pointing out that the one specific chroma cold vex armor build requires specific gear and mods to make it work.  

 

With the proposed changes, that specific build will still do nice damage, but will not be a team player.  Rhino will be a better team frame because he can hit max damage boost without also needing max duration (easy to spam cast versus vex armor that requires self damage setup before each cast).  

 

It is misleading to say he is going to be a team player.  That is just not true.  Sure you can ditch the narrow minded (for better range), but no one is going to be recasting every 30 seconds for the team (also x2 energy intensive as that build requires blind rage).

 

It's not like rhino that can just push a button and everyone in area gets boost.  Rhino will just become the new meta build.  

 

Nothing changes but the frame, we take shortcuts because focus farming and crafting of relic sets is a huge grind.  

 

So I agree with the OP's point.  Chroma finally had a true niche use that he performed better than any other frame.  No other boss except maybe occasional sortie needed that kinda firepower, now he will be outclassed by much easier and just as effective rhino roar build.  

 

I'd prefer they just rework the butterfly frame in general.  It's a cool concept but not very well implemented.  

I understand I'm not saying you but most are complaining but this goes back to mag chroma is not being a warframe he is being a tool for farming just like mag used to be with her pull augment, chroma is not on the same scale but the idea of him as a tool is still there, in my opinion

[Educated_Beast]

Another side thought, if Warframe powers worked on the edilon fight, we would not be looking to use frames that boosted weapon damage (i.e. harrow, volt, chroma, and soon to be Rhino). 

The choice by DE to make them invincible to Warframe powers makes the meta choice (for fast runs) obvious.  Mirage would be a top contender if her weapon boost worked at nighttime.  Even the non-traditional boost frames (like radiation smite Oberon, fire boost ember, cold boost frost, etc.) do not see use because they do not boost operator damage.  There should be more electric damage boost volts out there (fits a shield duration build) but I guess it hasn't made mainstream....

 

In other words, so many frames are outright excluded from fight because they bring nothing to the table.  Sure you can bring them, but you contribute nothing special other than a gun + amp.  

 

Why not allow powers after shields are down?  We would see a lot more variety.  

Edited February 7, 2018 by Educated_Beast

[NV1337]

On 2/5/2018 at 9:27 AM, Kiwinille said:

You don't have to get technical, you know exactly what people mean with 1shot. Feel free to show me/us any other warframe being able to do what Chroma does. As for your post below that quote, you're confusing mechanics with phases. Teralyst's "phases" are his limbs, thats how they stop you from directly 1shoting the Teralyst itself, and DE doesn't want you to 1shot every single limb before you 1shot the Teralyst, and it's not just a hit X% of hp bar to make it immune as other bosses that have no phase mechanics.

You asked for a frame that can do what chroma do. Check out riven mods. Like seriously if they are nerfing chroma because he one shot eidolons why doesn't DE nerf riven mods too. Also you want to see any other warframe being able to do what chroma does here is a link. 

This guy basically just soloes a Teralyst in 5 minutes. He is essentially doing something an entire squad of chroma, harrow, trinity, and volt is usually recommended for all on his own with a trinity. This entire argument of Oh chroma is totally the only one who can one shot eidolons or can do the most amount of damage to one is just complete and utter BS. 

[Aurn29]

On 2/3/2018 at 7:46 AM, BiancaRoughfin said:

PoE wasnt the only reason, he was already noticeably strong far before it. His Vex Armor granted him practically invincibility from all damage sources. Also Chroma Prime is already showing up in the Horizon so it was time for [DE] to look into what had to be changed.

yeah but you are missing the whole point this isn't our problem as the community DE came out with a broken frame, the only reason he was nerfed is because attention was brought to him for being a teralyst hunter. It doesn't make a difference anyway we will find a new frame to DPS the teralyst anyway can't keep a good community down right guys :)

[MrInubis]

On 9.02.2018 at 5:14 AM, NV1337 said:

You asked for a frame that can do what chroma do. Check out riven mods. Like seriously if they are nerfing chroma because he one shot eidolons why doesn't DE nerf riven mods too. Also you want to see any other warframe being able to do what chroma does here is a link. 

This guy basically just soloes a Teralyst in 5 minutes. He is essentially doing something an entire squad of chroma, harrow, trinity, and volt is usually recommended for all on his own with a trinity. This entire argument of Oh chroma is totally the only one who can one shot eidolons or can do the most amount of damage to one is just complete and utter BS. 

You can adjust for a rivens but you cant adjust for a riven + dmg times 40.