Limbo & Fun: A Fan's Feedback

[PsiWarp]

1 hour ago, chainchompguy3 said:

I'm personally of the mindset that this idea should be kept as simple as possible. Additional rift effects are nice and all, and are certainly on-the-table as far as I am concerned. But I don't want to potentially clutter this basic, elegant fix to limbo with possible other effects that could maybe be seen as controversial.

 

Additionally, I was thinking, how are the initial changes going to interact with Nullification?

If a player is nullified, do they lose the "rift walk" buff itself, or are they just yanked out of the rift, but retain the buff?

the former is more consistent with Nullification, but the latter is consistent with Limbo's hop-in-and-out-of the rift tactics.

If a player has projectiles frozen in stasis, and is in the rift, but then gets nullified, would that count to firing the projectiles?

If nullification removes the "Rift Walk" buff, but the rift walk buff seems to be tied to allies ability to unpause their projectiles, then what happens?

Will the ability to nullify "rift walk" be limited to the Buff-removing Scrambus/comba, or will it be something that ALL scrambus/comba can nullify?

Understandable. I am willing to entertain ideas that relate to increasing teammates' willingness to utilize the Rift, be it a direct benefit to them or another advantage against enemies in the same vein as the transitional Impact damage. However, the priority is improving the flow of transitions to streamline its use in combat.

Excellent questions. Here are some possible assumptions:

• When Rift Walk buff expires, the player returns to the material plane; rift-bound projectiles belonging to that player frozen by Stasis would unpause until the player regains Rift Walk.
• Since Rift Walk is now the basis for all non-Limbo players to enter the Rift (prevalent and relevant in all of Limbo's abilities), the distinction between being in the Rift and not is tied to this buff for consistency. As such, the condition for personal projectile Stasis unpause is simply to be in the material plane.
• On the topic of nullification, I would say that Rift Walk as a buff can be seen as part of several Warframe abilities, therefore would be nullified bringing the affected allies back to the material plane. Since the default behavior of Stasis projectiles is noted in the first and second points above, the answer is yes, they will unpause.
• In regards to Scrambus/Comba, I feel it should behave similar to how they would affect Limbo. I have not encountered them enough to give adequate feedback (which of them would pull Limbo out of Rift Walk?)

[Lucidess]

It's been mentioned by many others but i'm just saying it here.

I don't like Limbo's that use their abilities that stop me from dealing damage to a Boss. I am currently typing this as some limbo is doing all the work for me. This is what I get for joining pub? Limbo's that literally steal the whole gameplay from the rest of the team. Thanks DE.

[TheImpKing]

1 ) Why do we need different dimensions for each player that Rift Walks?  This seems like it'll just be overtly complex and make creating parallels of dimensions between allies, Limbo, and enemies, overtly difficult.  Maybe there's a specific reason behind this that I overlooked.

2 ) Does anyone have a real reason to use Rift Surge outside of a gimmick?  I've been playing quite a bit of Limbo the past week or so and I have yet to come into a situation where I needed to or felt the urge to use it.  I know it's used in one of those wonky Youtube builds with min-duration or something like that but for the most part it just seems to be there as a place filler.  I personally think that Limbo could do with a completely new skill here instead.

3 ) I would also like to talk about the pro's and con's in changing Banish to work completely opposite as it does right now.  I feel like pulling a crowd of enemies into your dimension would be far more beneficial to Limbo's playstyle than pushing them out.  Most Limbo's builds are built on utility, not survivability, and leaving the Rift to knock a group of enemies into the Rift then Rift-Walking back in the Rift is not only tedious but becomes ridiculously dangerous in more difficult content.  What would it hurt to make it so you can pull that group of enemies into the Rift with you instead of forcing Limbo's to expose themselves to the random gunfire and AoE's with their 200'sh HP non-existent armor.

[chainchompguy3]

3 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

1 ) Why do we need different dimensions for each player that Rift Walks?  This seems like it'll just be overtly complex and make creating parallels of dimensions between allies, Limbo, and enemies, overtly difficult.  Maybe there's a specific reason behind this that I overlooked.

2 ) Does anyone have a real reason to use Rift Surge outside of a gimmick?  I've been playing quite a bit of Limbo the past week or so and I have yet to come into a situation where I needed to or felt the urge to use it.  I know it's used in one of those wonky Youtube builds with min-duration or something like that but for the most part it just seems to be there as a place filler.  I personally think that Limbo could do with a completely new skill here instead.

3 ) I would also like to talk about the pro's and con's in changing Banish to work completely opposite as it does right now.  I feel like pulling a crowd of enemies into your dimension would be far more beneficial to Limbo's playstyle than pushing them out.  Most Limbo's builds are built on utility, not survivability, and leaving the Rift to knock a group of enemies into the Rift then Rift-Walking back in the Rift is not only tedious but becomes ridiculously dangerous in more difficult content.  What would it hurt to make it so you can pull that group of enemies into the Rift with you instead of forcing Limbo's to expose themselves to the random gunfire and AoE's with their 200'sh HP non-existent armor.

1) "Different Dimensions", I don't understand your understanding.

As far as I had understood it, the "Rift walk" buff allows each player affected to toggle their own rift-state upon rolling. They are either in the material world, or in the Rift. No longer will Limbo forcibly decide this for you, he will only give you the buff to toggle it yourself. There are not multiple dimensions, just multiple people, all being able to either be in the rift, or not in the rift, at any given time.

 

2)Rift surge, in it's current state, is intended to give Limbo a means of drawing enemies into the rift, from the safety of the rift. It turns enemies into banish-stations, that you activate by banishing. It requires either being willing to pop out and regular-banish an enemy, or spend a bunch of energy on cataclysm, before it can work. This seems to imply that DE want's the act of pulling enemies into the rift, from the safety of the rift, to be something you must carefully consider, as it is energy hungry and requires positional awareness to work.

 

3) See #2. Banishing, in it's current state, gives Limbo the vital tool to clear out all potential threats from one particular plane. If you can't kill a bombard before stasis runs out, banish him, and you don't have a threat anymore.

Meanwhile, if you need to hack a terminal, you can banish every enemy in the area, and suddenly you are the only thing in the material plane, being just as safe as if you were in the rift by yourself.

I wouldn't mind if Banish got a rework to make it focused on drawing in, rather than pushing out, but I would heavily demand that Limbo be given a means to retain the Push-out functionality. It's pretty vital to making sure enemies aren't where you don't want them.

[ljmadruga]

21 minutes ago, chainchompguy3 said:

1) "Different Dimensions", I don't understand your understanding.

As far as I had understood it, the "Rift walk" buff allows each player affected to toggle their own rift-state upon rolling. They are either in the material world, or in the Rift. No longer will Limbo forcibly decide this for you, he will only give you the buff to toggle it yourself. There are not multiple dimensions, just multiple people, all being able to either be in the rift, or not in the rift, at any given time.

 

2)Rift surge, in it's current state, is intended to give Limbo a means of drawing enemies into the rift, from the safety of the rift. It turns enemies into banish-stations, that you activate by banishing. It requires either being willing to pop out and regular-banish an enemy, or spend a bunch of energy on cataclysm, before it can work. This seems to imply that DE want's the act of pulling enemies into the rift, from the safety of the rift, to be something you must carefully consider, as it is energy hungry and requires positional awareness to work.

 

3) See #2. Banishing, in it's current state, gives Limbo the vital tool to clear out all potential threats from one particular plane. If you can't kill a bombard before stasis runs out, banish him, and you don't have a threat anymore.

Meanwhile, if you need to hack a terminal, you can banish every enemy in the area, and suddenly you are the only thing in the material plane, being just as safe as if you were in the rift by yourself.

I wouldn't mind if Banish got a rework to make it focused on drawing in, rather than pushing out, but I would heavily demand that Limbo be given a means to retain the Push-out functionality. It's pretty vital to making sure enemies aren't where you don't want them.

^^ I agree for the most part. I’d like to add a few things

Regarding rift surge, it’s actually a really good way of locking down maps without having to put ridiculous amounts of range on cataclysm. Very handy for Interception, especially on thatrealky big Corpus map. On top of that, it also comes in handy when room lockdowns are engaged. In that case, I press 2-4-3-4 and all the enemies are banished and cc’d, meanwhile I’m in the normal plain taking off the alarms in complete safety.

Regarding banish pushing instead of pulling, I agree as well, but there’s a small detail that was forgotten. The reason it’s only pushing to the opposite plane is to give Limbo a moment of vulnerability. It’s the same reason why Loki’s invisibility is not refreshable, or why Valkyr’s hysteria costs so much energy. If banish pulled enemies into the rift Limbo would be really boring to play imo.

[TheImpKing]

1 hour ago, chainchompguy3 said:

-snip-

1 ) From the way it was worded, or the way I interpreted it, it sounded like each individual player had their own dimension when they Rift-Walked, which is why I was confused.  It makes sense to allow players to enter/exit the Rift at their own leisure but it sounded like every person gets their own personal dimension when they Rift-Walked so for instance if Limbo banished a group of mobs into the Rift and a squad mate Rift-Walked into the Rift they'd still be in different dimensions.  Maybe I was just over-thinking it.

2 ) If I'm not mistaken, you don't really have control over who/what gets pulled into the Rift based on using Surge.  It's a proximity sorta' thing.  So if you wanted this mob or that mob or this particular group of mobs, you're not necessarily going to get them or just them.  Right?  I feel like they could come up with something to give Limbo players more direct control.

3 ) Perfectly reasonable.  Why don't they just change it simply to push and/or pull depending on the state of the target(s)?  If the target(s) is/are in the regular dimension, it pushes it/them to the Rift, and vice versa.

1 hour ago, ljmadruga said:

-snip-

Neat trick I didn't think of in order to make the normal dimension safe for interactions with consoles and the like, although this falls into one of my major complaints about Limbo and the inconsistencies in playing him.  If you open Cataclysm you can interact with some objects like picking up the datamass as long as it's in the Cataclysm's radius but this doesn't apply to consoles/doors/etc...  I think if we just cleaned up the consistencies and allowed Limbo's to interact with these sorta' things as long as they're all in the same dimension, we wouldn't need a gimmick like this and Rift Surge could get looked at for something more optimal in synergizing with the rest of his kit and giving him more precise control on what he's trying to achieve.

I'd argue that you can pull mobs into the Rift with 100% safety by being in the Rift and using Stasis -> Cataclysm.   We're simply talking about making it more convenient for Limbo's to do what they're already going to do without jumping through as many hoops to do it.  Keep in mind, the hurdles he's navigating directly impacts the rest of the squad for the most part.  So it's not only in Limbo's best interest that he isn't forced to lock down an entire area in order to do his job if that's not the best solution for the situation.

[chainchompguy3]

57 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

1 ) From the way it was worded, or the way I interpreted it, it sounded like each individual player had their own dimension when they Rift-Walked, which is why I was confused.  It makes sense to allow players to enter/exit the Rift at their own leisure but it sounded like every person gets their own personal dimension when they Rift-Walked so for instance if Limbo banished a group of mobs into the Rift and a squad mate Rift-Walked into the Rift they'd still be in different dimensions.  Maybe I was just over-thinking it.

Ah, right, that one line

"Simply put, you get your own personal bubble of interdimensional energy grounding you to your preferred plane of existence."

Yeah, I guess that could be confusing.

57 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

2 ) If I'm not mistaken, you don't really have control over who/what gets pulled into the Rift based on using Surge.  It's a proximity sorta' thing.  So if you wanted this mob or that mob or this particular group of mobs, you're not necessarily going to get them or just them.  Right?  I feel like they could come up with something to give Limbo players more direct control.

Which is why I said it requires situational awareness in order to work. You have to be aware of where your banish-stations are, and how you could move your targets to them, or move them to your target, or make a new banish station.

 

Though you do bring up the decent point that Limbo has a much harder time getting 1 and only 1 particular enemy into the rift. All of limbo's banish options are AOE now. So the only real option there is to try and catch them with the edge of a cataclysm, and hope you get as few other enemies as possible.

Then again, doing that is much less necessary with the addition of Stasis. Without the safety of stasis, dividing enemies up with absolute accuracy would've been vital. But now that we have it, it's not like those extra enemies we banish are going to be able to interfere with us doing as we please with our intended target.

57 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

3 ) Perfectly reasonable.  Why don't they just change it simply to push and/or pull depending on the state of the target(s)?  If the target(s) is/are in the regular dimension, it pushes it/them to the Rift, and vice versa.

But then you get the issue of groups of mixed enemies.

A bombard has been banished before, and is in the rift. A heavy gunner has walked over to be alongside this bombard, but they are not in the rift. You cast banish on the bombard. This creates an AOE, reaching both the Bombard and the Heavy gunner. Banish detects that the Bombard is already rift bound, so it pushes him out. But it detects that the Heavy gunner is NOT rift-bound, so it pulls her Into the rift. You've just changed one enemy for another.

You could try and make it's effects consistent across all targets of the AOE, based on the first one targeted (If the initial target is pushed, then that cast of banish cannot do anything but push), but then you run issues with miss-clicks and enemies being in very tight clusters/overlapping.

 

When I said he needed to retain the push functionality, I meant an ability dedicated to it. That, I believe, is the best means of making sure Limbo doesn't ever pull when he means to push, etc. It's how it is now, after all.

57 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

Neat trick I didn't think of in order to make the normal dimension safe for interactions with consoles and the like, although this falls into one of my major complaints about Limbo and the inconsistencies in playing him.  If you open Cataclysm you can interact with some objects like picking up the datamass as long as it's in the Cataclysm's radius but this doesn't apply to consoles/doors/etc...  I think if we just cleaned up the consistencies and allowed Limbo's to interact with these sorta' things as long as they're all in the same dimension, we wouldn't need a gimmick like this and Rift Surge could get looked at for something more optimal in synergizing with the rest of his kit and giving him more precise control on what he's trying to achieve.

Cleaning up the inconsistencies would most likely mean removing all cross-dimension functionality from cataclysm:

 

Seeing as how this thread's proposes to make Cataclysm only buff allies, and not change their rift-state, then that means it really only affects limbo.

Datamass-pickup _{and other few instances where limbo can interact across the rift} is primarily the result of letting allies continue the mission despite any potential acts of trolling limbo's rift might bring.

But if it's only affecting limbo, then allies won't ever be trolled, so it doesn't need to allow cross-dimensional datamass pick-up and other assorted interactions. This might hurt Limbo, but then again, he's the one able to turn it on and off at will.

 

57 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

I'd argue that you can pull mobs into the Rift with 100% safety by being in the Rift and using Stasis -> Cataclysm.   We're simply talking about making it more convenient for Limbo's to do what they're already going to do without jumping through as many hoops to do it.  Keep in mind, the hurdles he's navigating directly impacts the rest of the squad for the most part.  So it's not only in Limbo's best interest that he isn't forced to lock down an entire area in order to do his job if that's not the best solution for the situation.

True, you can Banish from the safety of the rift as-is. But it costs the casting of his most expensive ability, and if you want it to be long-term/widespread, then you also have to cast his 3.

It has those hoops he has to jump through specifically to ensure that it's not something he just casts without care, because stasis makes the rift almost completely safe.

Being able to bring enemies in, without any worry of leaving your safe-zone, is very bad. Having those hoops is an attempt to encourage him to leave his rift from time to time.

It works for me: I leave the rift to cast banish. I survive 90% of the time.

 

 

 

Sorry for the long post, I had things to say about everything, and I couldn't think to leave any out.

Edited February 9, 2018 by chainchompguy3

[MarchCalendar]

This is beauty incarnate,

I had an idea since they changed Limbo's banish into an AoE ability, where instead of being hesitant to cast it near teammates, you could utilize the system that Ivera and Vauban have, whereas Ivera can switch her arrows at will, Limbo could now switch target preference, allowing him to banish only enemies and friendly AI, or just his teammates with a symbol showing next to the crosshair which side he would be targeting.

So say, that green was for teammates and red was for AI on this image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666200490278915/9dc6a2bacaf6e6eee4059373fda225df.png

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666248406007839/c0fba8feefc63aec34a8ddb39bfc329d.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666228873003009/3beba8305f79dfc43d63d128d43d7525.png

Each color would show up near the crosshair and possibly, banish could change color based on who you're targeting.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666300486811648/1a80df9e87802367be2d502de56affb9.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666280555479051/eaed0b6b1dff768b4b0886867e9e9bf0.png

This would assist in situations where your allies and the enemy AI are in close quarters and you accidentally banish all enemies into the rift, forcing your reammates to have to roll into the rift as well. Having this would also reduce the risk of people rifting high priority targets just because they wanted to supply their teammates with your version of a Riftwalk buff for a brief moment of recovery.

In addition, it would be nice to see perhaps, a border effect on screen whenever stasis is present, or even just change the visual effects within the rift entirely to make it less chaotic, slow moving even, if not suddenly motionless at all.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by March64
Additional information.

[AzureFlash]

5 hours ago, EetNotErn said:

What part of your comment was constructive? You even said you'd be against ANY and ALL thoughts on raising Limbo's reputation. Doesn't sound like someone who is constructive at all.

Limbo can't have a bad reputation if he's not in the game at all!

I recognize that my post was snarky though. I have to be in the absolute best of moods not to be salty about Limbo.

[TheImpKing]

2 minutes ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Ah, right, that one line

"Simply put, you get your own personal bubble of interdimensional energy grounding you to your preferred plane of existence."

Yeah, I guess that could be confusing.

Which is why I said it requires situational awareness in order to work. You have to be aware of where your banish-stations are, and how you could move your targets to them, or move them to your target, or make a new banish station.

 

Though you do bring up the decent point that Limbo has a much harder time getting 1 and only 1 particular enemy into the rift. All of limbo's banish options are AOE now. So the only real option there is to try and catch them with the edge of a cataclysm, and hope you get as few other enemies as possible.

Then again, doing that is much less necessary with the addition of Stasis. Without the safety of stasis, dividing enemies up with absolute accuracy would've been vital. But now that we have it, it's not like those extra enemies we banish are going to be able to interfere with us doing as we please with our intended target.

But then you get the issue of groups of mixed enemies.

A bombard has been banished before, and is in the rift. A heavy gunner has walked over to be alongside this bombard, but they are not in the rift. You cast banish on the bombard. This creates an AOE, reaching both the Bombard and the Heavy gunner. Banish detects that the Bombard is already rift bound, so it pushes him out. But it detects that the Heavy gunner is NOT rift-bound, so it pulls her Into the rift. You've just changed one enemy for another.

You could try and make it's effects consistent across all targets of the AOE, based on the first one targeted (If the initial target is pushed, then that cast of banish cannot do anything but push), but then you run issues with miss-clicks and enemies being in very tight clusters/overlapping.

Cleaning up the inconsistencies would most likely mean removing all cross-dimension functionality from cataclysm:

 

Seeing as how this thread's proposes to make Cataclysm only buff allies, and not change their rift-state, then that means it really only affects limbo.

Datamass-pickup _{and other few instances where limbo can interact across the rift} is primarily the result of letting allies continue the mission despite any potential acts of trolling limbo's rift might bring.

But if it's only affecting limbo, then allies won't ever be trolled, so it doesn't need to allow cross-dimensional datamass pick-up and other assorted interactions. This might hurt Limbo, but then again, he's the one able to turn it on and off at will.

 

True, you can Banish from the safety of the rift as-is. But it costs the casting of his most expensive ability, and if you want it to be long-term/widespread, then you also have to cast his 3.

It has those hoops he has to jump through specifically to ensure that it's not something he just casts without care, because stasis makes the rift almost completely safe.

Being able to bring enemies in, without any worry of leaving your safe-zone, is very bad. Having those hoops is an attempt to encourage him to leave his rift from time to time.

It works for me: I leave the rift to cast banish. I survive 90% of the time.

 

 

 

Sorry for the long post, I had things to say about everything, and I couldn't think to leave any out.

Alright, assuming we had free range to change Limbo as we would want to conclude his kit.

Let's say his 1 was a Banish as it is right now and his 3 would be the opposite of whatever that skill is.

To compensate for essentially putting the same functionality on two skills, the act of using those skills could infer some sort of effect along with them.

1 ) Rift Banish. Forces target(s) into the Rift and maybe debuffs them or buffs Limbo or his allies in some form.

3 ) Material Banish.  Forces target(s) back into the Material plane and does something different that affects one of the aforementioned entities.

I'm just spitballing ideas as the conversation evolves so feel free to pick the suggestions apart at will.

 

In regards to potential trolling, isn't it counter-intuitive to say that Limbo should be able to pick up the Datamass and decide not to take it to the objective and just AFK in the Rift?  Then turn around and say we can't let Limbo hack/open doors while both, he and the terminal/door is in the Cataclysm, because?

 

You're right, it costs more energy.  But being in the Rift grants you energy regen, Energizing Dash gives you energy regen, Energy Siphon gives you energy regen, killing enemies in the Rift give you energy orbs, etc... you can see where I'm going with this.  There's virtually no real downside to using this whenever convenient for a Limbo player.  The only difference is that it imposes a particular style of gameplay on everyone else for him to do it.

[TheImpKing]

7 minutes ago, March64 said:

This is beauty incarnate,

I had an idea since they changed Limbo's banish into an AoE ability, where instead of being hesitant to cast it near teammates, you could utilize the system that Ivera and Vauban have, whereas Ivera can switch her arrows at will, Limbo could now switch target preference, allowing him to banish only enemies and friendly AI, or just his teammates with a symbol showing next to the crosshair which side he would be targeting.

So say, that green was for teammates and red was for AI on this image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666200490278915/9dc6a2bacaf6e6eee4059373fda225df.png

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666248406007839/c0fba8feefc63aec34a8ddb39bfc329d.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666228873003009/3beba8305f79dfc43d63d128d43d7525.png

Each color would show up near the crosshair and possibly, banish could change color based on who you're targeting.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666300486811648/1a80df9e87802367be2d502de56affb9.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666280555479051/eaed0b6b1dff768b4b0886867e9e9bf0.png

This would assist in situations where your allies and the enemy AI are in close quarters and you accidentally banish all enemies into the rift, forcing your reammates to have to roll into the rift as well. Having this would also reduce the risk of people rifting high priority targets just because they wanted to supply their teammates with your version of a Riftwalk buff for a brief moment of recovery.

In addition, it would be nice to see perhaps, a border effect on screen whenever stasis is present, or even just change the visual effects within the rift entirely to make it less chaotic, slow moving even, if not suddenly motionless at all.

 

Hot-swapping between banishing targets in/out of the Rift like Ivara's arrows.  You're a genius.   This is far superior to my idea of making 1/3 do the same thing at the expense of not having another skill in his kit worthwhile.

[chainchompguy3]

7 minutes ago, March64 said:

This is beauty incarnate,

I had an idea since they changed Limbo's banish into an AoE ability, where instead of being hesitant to cast it near teammates, you could utilize the system that Ivera and Vauban have, whereas Ivera can switch her arrows at will, Limbo could now switch target preference, allowing him to banish only enemies and friendly AI, or just his teammates with a symbol showing next to the crosshair which side he would be targeting.

So say, that green was for teammates and red was for AI on this image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666200490278915/9dc6a2bacaf6e6eee4059373fda225df.png

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666248406007839/c0fba8feefc63aec34a8ddb39bfc329d.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666228873003009/3beba8305f79dfc43d63d128d43d7525.png

Each color would show up near the crosshair and possibly, banish could change color based on who you're targeting.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666300486811648/1a80df9e87802367be2d502de56affb9.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96011005590511616/411666280555479051/eaed0b6b1dff768b4b0886867e9e9bf0.png

This would assist in situations where your allies and the enemy AI are in close quarters and you accidentally banish all enemies into the rift, forcing your reammates to have to roll into the rift as well. Having this would also reduce the risk of people rifting high priority targets just because they wanted to supply their teammates with your version of a Riftwalk buff for a brief moment of recovery.

 

Except Ivara/Vauban's interface is clunky as all hell. Hold-cast times are inconsistent with any degree of lag, and thus you have to wait a second or two longer to make sure it switched. Only to make you cast it a second time in order to actually get the effect you want.

 

But regardless, I don't see this change doing much. A limbo who is actively trying to avoid causing issues for his teammates doesn't really need to specify whether he's targeting friend or foe, He'll probably just leave them alone until there is an opportunity to buff them without consequences. Bad limbos would be too unfamiliar with the mechanics, or too intent on causing harm, to make use of this properly.

 

7 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

Hot-swapping between banishing targets in/out of the Rift like Ivara's arrows.  You're a genius.   This is far superior to my idea of making 1/3 do the same thing at the expense of not having another skill in his kit worthwhile.

Adding a potential extra few seconds of casting time when you're desperately trying to get a bombard out of your face is NOT a good idea.

[TheImpKing]

1 minute ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Adding a potential extra few seconds of casting time when you're desperately trying to get a bombard out of your face is NOT a good idea.

Change it so that holding the button down allows for toggling of the skill's effect and tapping uses said skill.  You've removed the second or so of holding the button down when necessary and moved it to sorting through the utility of the skill instead. 

Better or worse?

[MarchCalendar]

25 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

Change it so that holding the button down allows for toggling of the skill's effect and tapping uses said skill.  You've removed the second or so of holding the button down when necessary and moved it to sorting through the utility of the skill instead. 

Better or worse?

That's actually along the lines of what I was thinking as I was making those examples!

[chainchompguy3]

27 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

Alright, assuming we had free range to change Limbo as we would want to conclude his kit.

Let's say his 1 was a Banish as it is right now and his 3 would be the opposite of whatever that skill is.

To compensate for essentially putting the same functionality on two skills, the act of using those skills could infer some sort of effect along with them.

1 ) Rift Banish. Forces target(s) into the Rift and maybe debuffs them or buffs Limbo or his allies in some form.

3 ) Material Banish.  Forces target(s) back into the Material plane and does something different that affects one of the aforementioned entities.

I'm just spitballing ideas as the conversation evolves so feel free to pick the suggestions apart at will.

 

In regards to potential trolling, isn't it counter-intuitive to say that Limbo should be able to pick up the Datamass and decide not to take it to the objective and just AFK in the Rift?  Then turn around and say we can't let Limbo hack/open doors while both, he and the terminal/door is in the Cataclysm, because?

 

You're right, it costs more energy.  But being in the Rift grants you energy regen, Energizing Dash gives you energy regen, Energy Siphon gives you energy regen, killing enemies in the Rift give you energy orbs, etc... you can see where I'm going with this.  There's virtually no real downside to using this whenever convenient for a Limbo player.  The only difference is that it imposes a particular style of gameplay on everyone else for him to do it.

Limbo can't be casually banishing enemies into the rift, from the safety of the rift.

If you think he can do this right now, completely casually and carefree, then that doesn't mean it's OKAY for it, it means that this thread needs to think of ways to fix that too.

 

 

 

In regards to trolling potential, I'll both rephrase what I said, and ask you to rephrase your reply, because I can't make heads or tails of what you are suggesting there.

Cataclysm blocked allies from picking up the datamass, and forced them to drop it when they already had it. Limbo could completely halt Mobile defense missions. DE saw this, and fixed it in his rework, making cataclysm not affect certain key interactions, so that he could no longer force a halt to missions.

With the proposed changes in this thread, We propose that Limbo's cataclysm no longer affect allies in any way at all (other than buffing). This means that Cataclysm would be completely unable to force an ally to drop a datamass, even if DE's previous change were reverted.

Thus, why even bother keeping it around?

If the proposals found in the OP go through, then the need for Cataclysm to not affect certain things could be removed. It could be made consistent with the rest of the rift: No touching anything on the opposite plane. Ever.

Allies will not be trolled by being forced into the rift when they want to hack. If LIMBO wants to hack, then he can turn Cataclysm off.

The rift prevents datamass pickup normally, it only allows it during cataclysm. Same goes for hacking, picking up batteries on Excavation, and Picking up fuel canisters, coolant cells, and void keys on sabotage.

If you want to make Cataclysm CONSISTENT, then logically it would work just like the rest of the rift, and prevent these actions. Normally, preventing these actions would bother allies that are forced into the rift against their will. But with the changes to how banish affects allies in this thread, allies won't be forced against their will, so the problem is gone, and cataclysm can go back to being consistent.

 

14 minutes ago, TheImpKing said:

Change it so that holding the button down allows for toggling of the skill's effect and tapping uses said skill.  You've removed the second or so of holding the button down when necessary and moved it to sorting through the utility of the skill instead. 

Better or worse?

I don't understand what you're saying here, either. It seems like you're implying Banish currently has a charge-cast, which it doesn't.

So I'll re-phrase:

If you add a hold-the-key-to-switch-modes function, you run the issue that every now and then, you will be trying to get an enemy out of your current plane, by banishing it, only to realize that you are currently set to pull-enemies-in mode.

In the times that it takes to hold the key, wait for the confirmation that the power actually switched modes, release the key, re-line up your cross-hairs, press the key again (making sure to not accidentally hold for too long), and wait for the cast-delay that Banish has, you can very well die.

 

 

The current system of Banish-to-only-push works for it's current AOE design, and gives it a set, constant reason to be used even when Cataclysm has been buffed so much.

[TheImpKing]

58 minutes ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Limbo can't be casually banishing enemies into the rift, from the safety of the rift.

If you think he can do this right now, completely casually and carefree, then that doesn't mean it's OKAY for it, it means that this thread needs to think of ways to fix that too.

 

 

 

In regards to trolling potential, I'll both rephrase what I said, and ask you to rephrase your reply, because I can't make heads or tails of what you are suggesting there.

Cataclysm blocked allies from picking up the datamass, and forced them to drop it when they already had it. Limbo could completely halt Mobile defense missions. DE saw this, and fixed it in his rework, making cataclysm not affect certain key interactions, so that he could no longer force a halt to missions.

With the proposed changes in this thread, We propose that Limbo's cataclysm no longer affect allies in any way at all (other than buffing). This means that Cataclysm would be completely unable to force an ally to drop a datamass, even if DE's previous change were reverted.

Thus, why even bother keeping it around?

If the proposals found in the OP go through, then the need for Cataclysm to not affect certain things could be removed. It could be made consistent with the rest of the rift: No touching anything on the opposite plane. Ever.

Allies will not be trolled by being forced into the rift when they want to hack. If LIMBO wants to hack, then he can turn Cataclysm off.

The rift prevents datamass pickup normally, it only allows it during cataclysm. Same goes for hacking, picking up batteries on Excavation, and Picking up fuel canisters, coolant cells, and void keys on sabotage.

If you want to make Cataclysm CONSISTENT, then logically it would work just like the rest of the rift, and prevent these actions. Normally, preventing these actions would bother allies that are forced into the rift against their will. But with the changes to how banish affects allies in this thread, allies won't be forced against their will, so the problem is gone, and cataclysm can go back to being consistent.

 

I don't understand what you're saying here, either. It seems like you're implying Banish currently has a charge-cast, which it doesn't.

So I'll re-phrase:

If you add a hold-the-key-to-switch-modes function, you run the issue that every now and then, you will be trying to get an enemy out of your current plane, by banishing it, only to realize that you are currently set to pull-enemies-in mode.

In the times that it takes to hold the key, wait for the confirmation that the power actually switched modes, release the key, re-line up your cross-hairs, press the key again (making sure to not accidentally hold for too long), and wait for the cast-delay that Banish has, you can very well die.

 

 

The current system of Banish-to-only-push works for it's current AOE design, and gives it a set, constant reason to be used even when Cataclysm has been buffed so much.

Limbo's entire survivability aspect is gated behind not being touched by moving in and out of the Rift and doing the same to his enemies.

If you don't want Limbo to be virtually immortal, Stasis or Cataclysm or their interactions with each other has/have to be removed/changed.  It's fine to forever walk the rift as Limbo and never worry about getting touched as you can argue that a Valkyr with good mods is essentially immortal as well or an Inaros with Arcane Grace? ( I think that's the one )  That's not to say that being immortal is always bad design because not all aspects of the game revolve around being immortal.  Being immortal, for instance, will not allow you to cap interception towers faster or being more adequate at defending them, being immortal doesn't translate to killing things faster, being immortal doesn't allow you to navigate cameras, alerting enemies, lasers, etc... in spy missions any easier, but you get the idea.  Limbo has a few niches that he does extremely well.   Other things, he's sub par at, like most other frames.  Some better, some worse and that can be argued on kit designs, balancing out the numbers in those kits, etc... Not necessarily that Limbo is an issue, in and of, himself.   So if you're going to make it possible for Limbo to pull mobs into perma-uselessness, like he can already do, I don't see the harm in making it less taxing on the players around him to do it.

 

Regarding trolling, the problem is that you were talking about how Limbo interacts with allies and I was talking about Limbo interacting with objects, himself.  As in, I'm allowed to pick up a Datamass as Limbo while inside Cataclysm if the Datamass is inside the Cataclysm.  I'm not allowed to hack a terminal or open a door even if that terminal/door happens to be in the Cataclysm with me.  That's an inconsistency I'm talking about.  Either Limbo should not be allowed to interact with environmental/objective objects while he's in the Rift, regardless of Cataclysm ( which would make no sense, logically speaking ), or he should interact with all of them.  There's no sense in drawing arbitrary lines in the sand.  I mistakenly thought you were saying "I, as Limbo, am allowed to pick up Datamass so I can't troll team mates but I'm not allowed to open doors/hack terminals because that would lead to me trolling team mates," and I was all JackieChanWhat.jpeg at how irrational that was.  So that's my bad for the confusion.

 

As for the Banish idea, I presumed you meant that the problem with using Ivara's selection was that the "hold to use" aspect of the skill would create problems with your exposure on a squishy frame so you couldn't make split second casts to get out of a hairy situation and opting to swap around how the skill works with tap/hold would've been a solution, not that it was fundamentally bad design to you, regardless.

Edited February 10, 2018 by TheImpKing

[chainchompguy3]

2 hours ago, TheImpKing said:

Limbo's entire survivability aspect is gated behind not being touched by moving in and out of the Rift and doing the same to his enemies.

If you don't want Limbo to be virtually immortal, Stasis or Cataclysm or their interactions with each other has/have to be removed/changed.  It's fine to forever walk the rift as Limbo and never worry about getting touched as you can argue that a Valkyr with good mods is essentially immortal as well or an Inaros with Arcane Grace? ( I think that's the one )  That's not to say that being immortal is always bad design because not all aspects of the game revolve around being immortal.  Being immortal, for instance, will not allow you to cap interception towers faster or being more adequate at defending them, being immortal doesn't translate to killing things faster, being immortal doesn't allow you to navigate cameras, alerting enemies, lasers, etc... in spy missions any easier, but you get the idea.  Limbo has a few niches that he does extremely well.   Other things, he's sub par at, like most other frames.  Some better, some worse and that can be argued on kit designs, balancing out the numbers in those kits, etc... Not necessarily that Limbo is an issue, in and of, himself.   So if you're going to make it possible for Limbo to pull mobs into perma-uselessness, like he can already do, I don't see the harm in making it less taxing on the players around him to do it.

Glad we cleared up those missunderstandings.

 

A great deal of your post suggests that Immortality is not a big deal.

I infer that you mean to say the following:

You suggest that because some other frames are "Immortal", that it is alright for limbo to be too.

You suggest that being immortal does not take away from the game, because winning and losing hinges not on survival, but on objective completion.

You suggest that it is taxing to get enemies into "Perma Useless-ness", yet it shouldn't be.

 

If these are incorrect, please, correct me.

 

But if these are correct assumptions, then I'm saddened by the fact that you don't seem to know that immortality is boring in combat videogames.

 

Other frame can achieve massive durability, and some, even complete invulnerability.

But all immensely durable frames are still killable, and many have specific requirements on maintaining that durability.

All frames that can achieve total damage immunity have requirements to become vulnerable again built into their kit, and are designed to never be permanently invulnerable.

Inaros just has a lot of health, that he can heal.

Valkyr loses energy fast, and she dies if she doesn't run and hide before vulnerability hits

Wukong has his weaken over time, requiring constant breaks of vulnerability that can be missed if the player is not actively watching.

Nidus has damage reduction, but limited to a single enemy's health, and his passive costs a good 5minutes of stacks for just 5seconds of invulnerability.

No frames are immortal all the time.

 

 

 

An immortal player can achieve far more than a mortal one, because they no longer have the limiting factor of death to consider. A player who can die might have to back off of a point in order to heal back up. Immortality removes that. A player who is mortal could overestimate their abilities, and die. While dead, you defend nothing. You rescue no one.

That's all justification for the assumption that immortality is still a huge deal, and DOES contribute to mission success.

But achieving mission success is not hard, at least not by any Warframe experience I've seen. The real goal is not mission success, at least not for the majority of players. It can vary from person to person, and some player may very well only be playing for the sight of that mission success screen.

But I'd say the majority of players play for the fun of the combat, the "I'm so clever" feeling of making a very strong build, and the glorious praise of Fashion Frame.

Being immortal removes those first 2. Combat is lost if your target isn't actually a threat. And building something strong doesn't matter much when the smartest option would be to just be immortal, and then tweak your build to accommodate for the situation at hand.

Really, I'm just trying to explain to you that most people find immortality boring, and that people play games to have fun, not to be bored. Something I hope you already knew.

 

Making every enemy you fight permanently incapacitated is very, very comparable to invulnerability. So it aught to have just as much limitation and fun-preservation on it as any other form of invulnerability.

One way to limit it is to make the act of using it challenging in of itself.

It is not the most elegant method, it is not the by-definition best method.

But it works.

 

 

So yeah, I'm at odds with what I see to be your viewpoint here.

[TheImpKing]

2 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Glad we cleared up those missunderstandings.

 

A great deal of your post suggests that Immortality is not a big deal.

I infer that you mean to say the following:

You suggest that because some other frames are "Immortal", that it is alright for limbo to be too.

You suggest that being immortal does not take away from the game, because winning and losing hinges not on survival, but on objective completion.

You suggest that it is taxing to get enemies into "Perma Useless-ness", yet it shouldn't be.

 

If these are incorrect, please, correct me.

 

But if these are correct assumptions, then I'm saddened by the fact that you don't seem to know that immortality is boring in combat videogames.

 

Other frame can achieve massive durability, and some, even complete invulnerability.

But all immensely durable frames are still killable, and many have specific requirements on maintaining that durability.

All frames that can achieve total damage immunity have requirements to become vulnerable again built into their kit, and are designed to never be permanently invulnerable.

Inaros just has a lot of health, that he can heal.

Valkyr loses energy fast, and she dies if she doesn't run and hide before vulnerability hits

Wukong has his weaken over time, requiring constant breaks of vulnerability that can be missed if the player is not actively watching.

Nidus has damage reduction, but limited to a single enemy's health, and his passive costs a good 5minutes of stacks for just 5seconds of invulnerability.

No frames are immortal all the time.

 

 

 

An immortal player can achieve far more than a mortal one, because they no longer have the limiting factor of death to consider. A player who can die might have to back off of a point in order to heal back up. Immortality removes that. A player who is mortal could overestimate their abilities, and die. While dead, you defend nothing. You rescue no one.

That's all justification for the assumption that immortality is still a huge deal, and DOES contribute to mission success.

But achieving mission success is not hard, at least not by any Warframe experience I've seen. The real goal is not mission success, at least not for the majority of players. It can vary from person to person, and some player may very well only be playing for the sight of that mission success screen.

But I'd say the majority of players play for the fun of the combat, the "I'm so clever" feeling of making a very strong build, and the glorious praise of Fashion Frame.

Being immortal removes those first 2. Combat is lost if your target isn't actually a threat. And building something strong doesn't matter much when the smartest option would be to just be immortal, and then tweak your build to accommodate for the situation at hand.

Really, I'm just trying to explain to you that most people find immortality boring, and that people play games to have fun, not to be bored. Something I hope you already knew.

 

Making every enemy you fight permanently incapacitated is very, very comparable to invulnerability. So it aught to have just as much limitation and fun-preservation on it as any other form of invulnerability.

One way to limit it is to make the act of using it challenging in of itself.

It is not the most elegant method, it is not the by-definition best method.

But it works.

 

 

So yeah, I'm at odds with what I see to be your viewpoint here.

Some frames are immortal all the time because Limbo is a frame that can be immortal all the time.  Once you've established that this is factually true, you must then decide whether or not it's okay for him to be immortal and at what cost does he maintain that immortality.

Challenging content doesn't necessarily imply that the goal of that content is to kill you.  

Failure is failure, regardless of whether or not it's because you died or because you couldn't solve a puzzle fast enough, couldn't kill things fast enough, couldn't cap points fast enough, so on and so forth.

Immortality, if done properly and I'm not arguing it is or isn't one way or another with Limbo, should not immediately be frowned upon.  Players enjoy the idea of being powerful in their own right while still maintaining a sense of difficulty when playing the game.  You can do this without getting rid of immortality, conceptually.   Once you've opened up those seemingly black n' white areas of the chess board, you can be far more creative and diverse in what you can or can't allow a player to do in the game.

But you're right, at some point, any of those frames with the right builds mentioned could be killed... in a simulacrum with content that you normally aren't exposed to when playing the game every day.

Picking and choosing when you get to draw a line in the sand is completely subjective.  There's virtually no difference, in theory, between playing Limbo as opposed to Banshee before the update in a Defense mission where all the mobs die before they can see you or attack you or playing Ivara in a solo survival mission where no mobs can detect you or attack you because you can actually have perma-stealth.

These things that seem outrageous are pretty common in Warframe.

What really needs to happen is that the content needs to be looked at and tuned to be somewhat challenging in some regard.  Almost everything in the game has become cannon fodder.  At least the Eidolons require you to pay attention and guess what?  Limbo's immortality doesn't seem to matter.  I haven't played against the new Eidolons but I know the original Teralyst had no place for Limbo and even more to the point, operators were virtually immortal when "crouching" against Teralyst and the enemies around them and any of the AoE or skills being used by said Teralyst.  I haven't seen anyone complaining that it takes away from the experience of fighting the Teralyst.

So why is Limbo the supposed offender because he uses it in his kit?

[Cryptix123]

13 hours ago, TheImpKing said:

 

2 ) Does anyone have a real reason to use Rift Surge outside of a gimmick?  I've been playing quite a bit of Limbo the past week or so and I have yet to come into a situation where I needed to or felt the urge to use it.  I know it's used in one of those wonky Youtube builds with min-duration or something like that but for the most part it just seems to be there as a place filler.  I personally think that Limbo could do with a completely new skill here instead.

 

Rift surge is for Infested missions or mot where its too hot for limbo to reenter the material realm but he still needs to get enemies into the rift, but in a controlled manner.

Lets say we have maybe 7 corrupted lancers, 8 assha-I mean corrupted crewman, and a corrupted bombard. You've already banished and stasised the bombard as a health station with your glaive prime with healing return. Now, you can cast rift surge on the bombard and banish them. You keep your health station and can leave those enemies in the void while you pop a life support. That might seem niche right now, but now quadruple those numbers because its the 10 minute mark at Mot and you'll see the advantage.

[Miburec]

@AzureFlash

I feel you. I too had my fair share of rage if a Limbo was present in a PuG. But despite that, I love him and wouldn't want him to be gone. I learned my lesson from those encounters and don't use him on PuGs, only for solo or if I'm playing with friends via discord. Communication is a must for Limbo in his current state as he just takes complete control over the fight. And if noone knows what a Limbo is up to next, it becomes a chore at best to play with him in the same squad. But what OPs proposing is changing his kit to something other players can utilize instead of being forced to endure. Kinda like Octavias buffs: If you don't want to do stuff rythmically, you just don't do it.

I admit that even those proposed changes don't fix all issues with Limbo but it is perhaps the most elaborate step in the right direction I've seen since his rework.

 

@PsiWarp

I was about to draft some Ideas about Limbo myself but after reading yours I realized that I would never come up with something that fleshed out. Kudos!

But there are some Ideas I had which aren't covered by your proposal. I hope you don't mind bringing them to the table:

• The "rift slide" to change planes comes with some rather heavy drawbacks. While I like the idea that rift walk isn't an ability of its own anymore, it is imho too crucial for Limbos overall playstyle to share the same restrictions as a regular dodge roll. It interupts reloads, it cancels charges and it can only be done once while aim gliding untill one makes contact with the ground again. Additionally the forced movement more often than not launches you way further than desired and it has a fixed animation duration which prevents you from any other actions but can not be sped up by natural talent. I'd suggest changing it to a simple sidestep to reduce the distance, enabling repeated uses even while aimgliding and speeding up the action itself by being affected by natural talent. If it should keep interrupting reloads and cancel bow charges or not is arguable, as IIRC the old rift walk was a two handed action, too. But speeding up the whole thing allready reduces the impact this has on gunplay.
• I somewhat miss the ability to banish enemies while being in the rift. I do understand that it is for balances sake and that you still can perform a radial banish with surged enemies, but that's it. If you stay stationary you can re-surge enemies and leave one alive for the sole purpose of radial banish, but if you for whatever reason want or have to move, you are pretty much forced to either get out of the rift and banish an enemy or drop your cataclysm. While the latter is the easiest albeit energy hungry way, in the Void or on Corpus missions the latter can become almost impossible if a Nully is around, while the first becomes an almost guaranteed death sentence at certain enemy levels. What I'd love to see is that you'd be able to banish rift surged enemies who are still on the material plane. Killing a surged enemy allready transfers the surge to nearby enemies. Why not take advantage of it by putting those enemies in some kind of "half state", enabling Limbo to pull surged enemies into the rift plane without leaving the plane himself.
• Nullifiers. The bane of most Frames. Subject to countless rants and rages. I learned to live with them, avoid them and developed strategies to deal with them. But what bothers me the most is that it feels like they interfere with Limbo more than with every other frame. So I'd suggest a little change to how they interact with the rift in general and Cataclysm in particular. I don't like that the whole bubble just collapses by being sligthly toucht by a Nully bubble. So I came up with an idea. What if the Cataclysm had actually two "event horizons"? The outer one which marks the transition area between the rift and the material plane and an inner one which acts like a "core" from which the cataclysm itself radiates from. The inner bubble would start with the end diameter of cataclysms range and shrinks over time to a portal sized blob simultaniously with the cataclysm itself. The cata only gets completely dispelled, if the Nully bubble touches that inner core, while the Nullifier and everyone inside his bubble gains the ability to enter the rift unharmed and unaffected by stasis or rift surge. You could even let them circumvent stasis and enable them to shoot everyone and everything inside the cataclysm, while the tenno would be forced to either disable stasis to shoot back or rush in to melee them down. That way Nullifiers would remain a serious thread (perhaps even a greater one as they would be able to switch planes and shoot despite stasis being active) without completely negating the usage of cataclysm.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Miburec

[CityOfVillians]

New Limbo Player looking for guides/help on how to use him. Hate is easy to find but tactics is sparse. I've seen a few video's but everything is moving so quickly it's hard to tell what happened to whom and in what order. Since Limbo's squishy, it's hard finding a map to test and understand his powers.

1. Banish

2. Stasis

3. Rift Surge

4. Cataclysm

 

(1. Banish)

On low level mobs this kills them out right. 

 

(2. Stasis)

Is this single target or AOE? Reviewing the wiki it seems that this power will allow me to:

a. melee

b. Synthesis target

c. Feral Kevat

d. Status Effect/kill

But I'm having a hard time testing, understanding how to use it and not die.

 

(3. Rift Surge)

In a defense mission I put this down in a long hallway to arrest the gunfire before the enemies make there way to Cryopod. But there has got to be better uses. I just have no idea when.

 

(4. Cataclysm)

I've been using this as a AOE kill but checking the wiki I see that I can protect:

a. Cryopod

b. Execavators

 

My first encounter with a Limbo player was during a Orokin Survival Mission. We were in a open area and all of the infested had stopped moving. There were red grid lines and we melee'd the mob at leisure. Was that Limbo? I've never been able to do anything like that. Or was it another Warframe?

[ljmadruga]

2 hours ago, CityOfVillians said:

New Limbo Player looking for guides/help on how to use him. Hate is easy to find but tactics is sparse. I've seen a few video's but everything is moving so quickly it's hard to tell what happened to whom and in what order. Since Limbo's squishy, it's hard finding a map to test and understand his powers.

1. Banish

2. Stasis

3. Rift Surge

4. Cataclysm

 

(1. Banish)

On low level mobs this kills them out right. 

 

(2. Stasis)

Is this single target or AOE? Reviewing the wiki it seems that this power will allow me to:

a. melee

b. Synthesis target

c. Feral Kevat

d. Status Effect/kill

But I'm having a hard time testing, understanding how to use it and not die.

 

(3. Rift Surge)

In a defense mission I put this down in a long hallway to arrest the gunfire before the enemies make there way to Cryopod. But there has got to be better uses. I just have no idea when.

 

(4. Cataclysm)

I've been using this as a AOE kill but checking the wiki I see that I can protect:

a. Cryopod

b. Execavators

 

My first encounter with a Limbo player was during a Orokin Survival Mission. We were in a open area and all of the infested had stopped moving. There were red grid lines and we melee'd the mob at leisure. Was that Limbo? I've never been able to do anything like that. Or was it another Warframe?

Limbo is a bit more complicated to understand than other frames. He requires knowledge of how his powers work together.

You have to understand the rift before you can understand limbo. Entities in the rift cannot interact in any way with entities in the normal plane. This includes damaging or attacking enemies.

First, his passive. Dodging or rolling will toggle Limbo in or out of the rift. This is your most powerful defensive tactic. This is also extremely useful for going through Corpus Spy vaults with ease because laser grids can not detect anything in the rift.

Banish “pushes” enemies into the opposite plane from limbo. This can only be done if both Limbo and the target are on the same plane. This is mostly a defensive tactic that renders enemies completely harmless for a good duration.

Stasis does not affect anything outside the rift. Enemies inside the rift are completely frozen. This is pretty much the ultimate debuff because enemies caught in stasis cannot move or attack. It’s not affected by strength or range, just duration.

Rift surge is a bit complicated. This causes banished enemies to become functionally “locked” in the rift. Basically, when an enemy is normally supposed to leave the rift, they are re-banished automatically in addition to banishing the enemies around them.

Cataclysm places everything caught inside of it into the rift. This means that Limbo has full control of anything and everything inside that bubble.

Notice that Banish only “pushes” Enemies in the rift. Limbo has to become vulnerable if he wants to banish enemies. If you want to “pull” enemies into the rift, you have to place a cataclysm. This is to incentivize risk vs. reward.

[CityOfVillians]

1 hour ago, ljmadruga said:

Limbo is a bit more complicated to understand than other frames. He requires knowledge of how his powers work together.

You have to understand the rift before you can understand limbo. Entities in the rift cannot interact in any way with entities in the normal plane. This includes damaging or attacking enemies.

First, his passive. Dodging or rolling will toggle Limbo in or out of the rift. This is your most powerful defensive tactic. This is also extremely useful for going through Corpus Spy vaults with ease because laser grids can not detect anything in the rift.

Banish “pushes” enemies into the opposite plane from limbo. This can only be done if both Limbo and the target are on the same plane. This is mostly a defensive tactic that renders enemies completely harmless for a good duration.

Stasis does not affect anything outside the rift. Enemies inside the rift are completely frozen. This is pretty much the ultimate debuff because enemies caught in stasis cannot move or attack. It’s not affected by strength or range, just duration.

Rift surge is a bit complicated. This causes banished enemies to become functionally “locked” in the rift. Basically, when an enemy is normally supposed to leave the rift, they are re-banished automatically in addition to banishing the enemies around them.

Cataclysm places everything caught inside of it into the rift. This means that Limbo has full control of anything and everything inside that bubble.

Notice that Banish only “pushes” Enemies in the rift. Limbo has to become vulnerable if he wants to banish enemies. If you want to “pull” enemies into the rift, you have to place a cataclysm. This is to incentivize risk vs. reward.

Thank You.

A player found me in game and helped explain the mechanics. 

Since low level enemies die when you cast powers it's hard to understand what is going on.

On the other hand high level enemies easily kill squishy Limbo.

But now I have a better understanding on how to use him and of course not upset the rest of the team.

Basically 1-2 melee

4-2 mob melee

4-2 target protect (Cryopod)

Edited February 10, 2018 by CityOfVillians
Clarity

[chainchompguy3]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 1:43 PM, PsiWarp said:

 

• In regards to Scrambus/Comba, I feel it should behave similar to how they would affect Limbo. I have not encountered them enough to give adequate feedback (which of them would pull Limbo out of Rift Walk?)

Finally got around to looking this up.

"Nul" type Scrambus/Comba dispel debuffs, and list Rift-walk as one of the buffs the dispel.

However, "Sap" type Scrambus/Comab dispel damage powers, and Banish is considered a damage power.

 

So I wonder if, in the glorious situation that DE implements these changes, A Rift-walk-buff applied via Banish will be treated as part of Banish itself, and be nullified by Sap Combas.

It is best to assume, however, that it is treated solely as a buff, and subject only to Nul Scrambus.

 

just to post it.

[PsiWarp]

Woah the second page blew up while I was enjoying the Warframe revisits. Great discussions all around. I cleaned up the OP a bit to hopefully reduce confusion about the dimensions, still just talking about the two we've had for Limbo (Rift & Material).

@chainchompguy3 Thanks for looking into this. I guess the Nul variant would become the bane of Rift Walkers.

About Cataclysm, it would be interesting if it had a core that Nullifier bubbles have to touch to dispel the whole dome. Huge Cataclysms in the Void and high level Corpus maps are pretty much popped instantly with the large number of Nullies roaming about.