Lucredis Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Here's a quick comparision straight out of my hair Oldberon: Serration, HC, Shred, 2x Multishot, 3x 90% Elemental = 60 (base) * 4.3 (base damage mods) * 2.5 (multishots) * 3.7 (elementals) * 1.05 (crit) = average 2506 damage per shot Newberon: Serration, Shred, 2x Multishot, 2x 90% Elemental, 2x Crit = 44 * 2.65 * 2.5 * 2.8 * [0.26 * 2.5 * (2.4 * 2.2 - 1) + 1] = average 3087 damage per shot Newberon with 60% elemental/60% status = 44 * 2.65 * 2.5 * 2.2 * 3.782(crit) = average 2425 damage per shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibernetika Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I do hope that the damage 2.5 changes might reduce the need for elemental mods because just like base damage boosting mods, elemental mods is just as mandatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderchief0 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Lucredis said: Here's a quick comparision straight out of my hair Oldberon: Serration, HC, Shred, 2x Multishot, 3x 90% Elemental = 60 (base) * 4.3 (base damage mods) * 2.5 (multishots) * 3.7 (elementals) * 1.05 (crit) = average 2506 damage per shot Newberon: Serration, Shred, 2x Multishot, 2x 90% Elemental, 2x Crit = 44 * 2.65 * 2.5 * 2.8 * [0.26 * 2.5 * (2.4 * 2.2 - 1) + 1] = average 3087 damage per shot Newberon with 60% elemental/60% status = 44 * 2.65 * 2.5 * 2.2 * 3.782(crit) = average 2425 damage per shot Does the Newberon with status include proc damage? Would we include Hunter Munitions in there somewhere? Edited February 7, 2018 by Thunderchief0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderchief0 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) double post Edited February 7, 2018 by Thunderchief0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderchief0 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) double post Edited February 7, 2018 by Thunderchief0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChatNinja Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) Just gonna... leave this here. I'm so ready. Edited February 7, 2018 by ChatNinja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekkou Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, WindigoTP said: It's 44 x 90 x 2 x 0.65 x 5.7 = 29343. Only 30% more. ---edit--- And anyway, the formula is utterly wrong and you are ignoring current crit stats. If you add them, you get 60 x 90 x 4 x 0.05 x 2 = 2160. So, apparently you get 13.5 times DPS increase? That's quite a buff, if I've ever seen one! 2 2 Whoops, quite in a rush when writing that. I probably shouldn't have tried to simplify it because adding crit factor to DPS calculation is actually much more complex than. The formula only calculates the dps when it crits, while it should calculate both crit and non-crit. Okay, let's try again Old Tiberon, 60 x 90 x 4 x 0.05 x 2 + 60 x 90 x 4 x 0.95 = 22,680 New Tiberon, 44 x 90 x 2 x 0.65 x 5.7 + 44 x 90 x 2 x 0.35 = 32,115 About 40% dps increase. Edited February 7, 2018 by Rekkou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibernetika Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 52 minutes ago, ChatNinja said: Just gonna... leave this here. I'm so ready. May you choke on a chicken bone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombatantFrost4 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I'm pretty anxious what this gun can do now. I have been using this weapon as a standard issue ever since I reached MR4. I have slapped around 7 formas on it. I'm not sure if this is a buff or nerf, especially the decrease in damage from 60 to 44. But the crit chance is keeping my hopes up. Maybe it'll make the rifle even better than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepheonix13 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 8 hours ago, WindigoTP said: Elemental damage is still a better option than crit, since it not only has a raw numerical bonus against a particular type of armor, but ALSO ignores a portion of said armor. Take corrosion for example, not only it has 75% damage bonus agaist Ferrite Armor, which is the most common in the game, it also straight up IGNORES 75% of said armor, which just by itself cuts down enemies' EHP by three. Radiation does the same for Alloy. Without Elemental damage all that theoretical DPS from Crit gets cut down by the armor. Having SOME corrosion is better than having a ton of crit. To get the most grofit out of upcoming changes I need to still have elemental damage AND squeeze in some crit mods. And I don't really have much space to qwueeze those in. Otherwise, the weapon at best will stay roughly where it is now. You are right in saying that without crit mods, this weapon will be not be changed much, bodyshots would be slightly weaker than before, headshots would do more damage on average, so it would even out and let the weapon stay where it is. What you are forgetting though, is that pre-change Tiberon builds usually consist of 4 elemental mods, and taking two (not-good-against-armor) elements out for Point Strike and Vital Sense will see a huge buff to not only your DPS, but also your Corrosive/Radiation DPS, even if the two mods you took out were the 60/60 mods for Corrosive/Radiation. And if you had 3 elementals before, taking the third one out and putting in Vital Sense will let your Corrosive/Radiation DPS stay at around the same damage while increasing your physical DPS. Furthermore, headshots (which are not hard to to with Tiberon) will further widen this gap because of headcrit multipliers. And let's not even talk about Rivens, because of Tiberons high disposition, it will be easy to get over 100% crit now, whereas before, you had to have damage and multishot on your Riven as stacking elemental damage gives diminishing returns. So by increasing the number of useful stats, rolling good Rivens also gets easier. All in all, this weapon will definitely be buffed against non-armored enemies (no question there I think) and IMO also buffed against armored (depends on build/remains to be seen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepheonix13 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Rekkou said: Whoops, quite in a rush when writing that. I probably shouldn't have tried to simplify it because adding crit factor to DPS calculation is actually much more complex than. The formula only calculates the dps when it crits, while it should calculate both crit and non-crit. Okay, let's try again Old Tiberon, 60 x 90 x 4 x 0.05 x 2 + 60 x 90 x 4 x 0.95 = 22,680 New Tiberon, 44 x 90 x 2 x 0.65 x 5.7 + 44 x 90 x 2 x 0.35 = 32,115 About 40% dps increase. Sorry to say that this is still quite wrong, because you are calculating the bonus from elemental mods wrong. Correct would be: Old: 60 * x * (1 + 0.9 * 4) * (0.05 * 2 + 0.95 * 1) = 289.8 * x New: 44 * x * (1 + 0.9 * 2) * (0.65 * 5.7 + 0.35 * 1) = 499.6 * x where x are other multipliers (base damage, multishot, faction damage), so switching 2 out of 4 elementals for PS and VS gives you a 72% DPS increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekkou Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said: Sorry to say that this is still quite wrong, because you are calculating the bonus from elemental mods wrong. Correct would be: Old: 60 * x * (1 + 0.9 * 4) * (0.05 * 2 + 0.95 * 1) = 289.8 * x New: 44 * x * (1 + 0.9 * 2) * (0.65 * 5.7 + 0.35 * 1) = 499.6 * x where x are other multipliers (base damage, multishot, faction damage), so switching 2 out of 4 elementals for PS and VS gives you a 72% DPS increase. Why there is a +1 on the elemental calculation? elemental mods scales directly to your base damage so it's simple multiplication. If Tiberon equip 1 90% fire mod. You will get 60 base damage and 54 fire damage. With that formula, you will get 60 base damage and 114 fire damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepheonix13 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, Rekkou said: Why there is a +1 on the elemental calculation? elemental mods scales directly to your base damage so it's simple multiplication. If Tiberon equip 1 90% fire mod. You will get 60 base damage and 54 fire damage. With that formula, you will get 60 base damage and 114 fire damage. The +1 signifies the physical damage which stays untouched by elemental mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekkou Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said: The +1 signifies the physical damage which stays untouched by elemental mods. Oh, yeah you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Xenomorph Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I am now building mine and hopefully I can get it before the changes hit because i need to own before the mr goes to 10. It is a buff but some weapons got compromised buffs, others nerfed mostly and weapons like grinlok got a big love from DE. I am sad they not buffed the braton more. 24 is still a low damage and not increased a lot the other stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 10 hours ago, Thunderchief0 said: Damaged decreased from 60 to 44.... this isn't actually a bad thing: the golden rule of damage in Warframe is that raw damage doesn't scale well without the help of either Crit or status. having nothing but raw damage is bad against higher level enemies, because once that damage falls off due to armour scaling, what have you got left? the Soma prime is proof that raw damage doesn't mean jack if you have good crit chance and a decent multiplier. I also happen to own a Tiberon Riven that increases it's raw damage, might re-roll for even more crits; I always wanted a Tiberon that can Orange-Crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ThermalStone Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) I've been sitting on a +Crit Chance, + Electricity, + Damage, -Zoom Riven forever. Building a Latron right now... Although part of me wonders why they didn't just leave the old weapons as is and make all these buffs through Prime.Wraith/Prisma/Mara/etc. versions. It would have been an easy way to inject a bunch of new content into the game. Edited February 7, 2018 by (XB1)ThermalStone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarissonLA Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I've been using old/current 7 forma Tiberon with crit damage in a riven with adarza's buff for some time, damage from crits felt amazing, with Harrow's new augment it'd be cheeky and now this change to stats makes it permanent viable for all-time, so I'm happy, though raw damage will be lower, along with disposition, maybe, but I've been waiting for critical tiberon for a long time I was hoping it'll be primed one day with these stats we get. Answering first post questions: Yes, it's a buff, and as for damage, recalculated in builder (using tiberon ofc) my numbers are as high as 48019.674 TOTAL DAMAGE and 196032.316 BURST DPS with Primed Shred and riven +dmg+multi+CD+negative so anything semi-godly can get you to 30-40k per shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderchief0 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 14 hours ago, bluepheonix13 said: Sorry to say that this is still quite wrong, because you are calculating the bonus from elemental mods wrong. Correct would be: Old: 60 * x * (1 + 0.9 * 4) * (0.05 * 2 + 0.95 * 1) = 289.8 * x New: 44 * x * (1 + 0.9 * 2) * (0.65 * 5.7 + 0.35 * 1) = 499.6 * x where x are other multipliers (base damage, multishot, faction damage), so switching 2 out of 4 elementals for PS and VS gives you a 72% DPS increase. So we will will be getting almost double the damage after the change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepheonix13 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Thunderchief0 said: So we will will be getting almost double the damage after the change? If you had a build like serration, heavy caliber, split chamber, firerate mod and 4 elementals before and switch out 2 elementals for crit mods, then yes. Note, that this is not accounting for primed cryo rounds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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