Why Chroma will never be tanky again: (UPDATED TO CONTAIN THE BEST BALANCING IDEAS IN THE FIRST POST)

[Lead_Codpiece]

10000 armour at 300% strength that’s with (steel fiber +stand united +arcane guardian), and not refreshable vex armour for high risk high reward plays. that would be ~97% reduction

23 минуты назад, Walkampf сказал:

 

Give.

me.

a.

number.

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by Lead_Codpiece

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb IceColdHawk:

Oof. I guess...

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5487 x 5.98 = 12078 ??? Yeah, surely working as intended. Who doesn't love to get cheated by their own ability screen?

Meanwhile,

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^+149% Mhm, sure. Every warframe uses "the same formular". Is this the week of spreading misinformation?

As every other player? Same formular? Do you actually play the game or just blindly listen to what the Devs have written?

Rhino's Roar, Mirage's Eclipse, Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, Ivara's Navigator, Ivara's Prowl, Volt's Electric Shield, Chroma's Old Vex Armor, Saryn's Toxic Lash, Nova AMD and MPrime and Banshee's Sonar all go off of fully modded damage.

The only frames i can remember that use the same formular as chromas new vex armor are Mesa's Shooting Gallery and Octavia's AMP. You don't hear threads about buffing these frames because they're already very useful and good. But chroma does do pretty much NOTHING other than tank and deal damage. And both things that he does, other frames can do better. He simply has no reason to be played anymore. Be it a buffer or a berserker, he just doesn't cut it anymore thanks to nonsense formular.

But i must say. For someone who's playing the big man, throwing insults at other players and telling them to git gud and learn how to chroma, you seem to severely lack knowledge. Please test and think before you're acting big instead of just sticking your fingers in ears and go "Blablabla devs said so, so it's right" to prevent further embarassment. Peace out my friend.

for example this

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Xzorn:

@Autongnosis

A perfect Argument.  I think you covered every base on that.

I guess I'll leave my salty video proof and the eHP comparison I did of Trinity + Guardian x2 for added effect.

 

Ice dies in 7 hits, Heat dies in 8 hits, Heat + QT dies in 10 hits, Ice + QT dies in 11 hits. Nova dies in 18 hits.

Nova is not using her most powerful ability Slow, which is effectively 0.25x damage intake from most enemies and she's considerably more agile than Chroma. This is a joke comparison showing both the weak amount of eHP Chroma is now dealing with and the flaw in relying on armor as your source of survival.

But it gets worse. Or better? Depends on your brand of humor...

-Trinity Abating Link Tank Hybrid-
Blessing + Link
100 * 0.25 = 25
25 * 0.25 = 6.25 / 100 = 0.0625 (93.75%)

Armor + Arcane Guardian x2
15 + 600 + 600 = 1,215
1,215 / ( 1,215 + 300) = 0.802

Health DR
100 * 0.0625 = 6.25
6.25 * (1 - 0.802) = 1.2375 / 100 = 0.012375
= 98.76% DR

450 / (1 - 0.9375) = 7,200
740 / (1 - 0.9875) = 59,200
1,531.2 / (1 - 0.9875) = 122,495

Total eHP
7,200 + 59,200 + 122,495 = 188,895 eHP

(This is a 100% Abating Hybrid build, not even full tank)

Pretty much all the DR Buff based frames got a massive eHP boost from the new Arcane Guardian, Mesa, Nova, Gara. Even Nidus got a nice chunk of Survival. Still need to test Rhino and Nekros but you know who doesn't get much, lacks CC or pretty much anything to aid in survival? Chroma.

They need to get Chroma away from Armor mitigation and his kit justifies far more eHP.

or this

 

[Eljureo]

What are you guys on about? My Chroma, ice element, regular tank build, strength, armor, duration, vitality is unkillable in regular content.

And I can now recast vex armor... 700% armor, how is that not tanky? Damage buff is still noticable and now permanent.

[DeadlyCreation]

Am 11.2.2018 um 00:08 schrieb IfritKajiTora:

1. Spectral scream - For example cold element should leave ice trial on the ground that slows enemies  Damage buff from Vex armor means almost nothing. It need some CC, while weapons with vex armor do all the damage work.

2.Elemental Ward - The range of it should be increased.

3.Vex armor - the range of 18 meters I think it's actually 9 meters range only. And it should be buffed as well.

4.Effigy - it have it's down side of reducing Chroma's armor by half while his triumph card is armor and it's eating energy like crazy.. Reduce energy cost of casting from 50 to 25 and energy drain per second from 10 energy to 5 energy.

Vex armor needs to go back to being multiplicative with mods. At the current state Chroma is pathetic compared to other similar frames.

The only reason his damage seemed so ridiculous b4 was because vex armor double dipped on modded dual elemental damage and triple dipped on innate dual elemental weapons (ogris,plasmor,penta).

Vex armor being multipilied with the mods was not the source of this insane dmg.

Because of these changes we ended up with this:

DE's excuse to making Chroma's dmg additive is total bogus, either completely lied to us or honestly don't play their own game, majority of dmg buffs are calculated with total dmg with mods accounted for multiplicatively.

Zitat

There are actually very few other abilities that work on Base Damage rather than Modded Damage in the game, Octavia's Amp and Mesa's Shooting Gallery are the only two I can think of that use the formula they changed Chroma's to.

Ember's Flash Accelerant, Saryn's Venom Dose, Frost's Freeze Force, Ember's Fireball Frenzy, Volt's Shock Trooper and Oberon's Smite infusion buffs go off of all mods minus Elemental Damage Mods.

Rhino's Roar, Mirage's Eclipse, Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, Ivara's Navigator, Ivara's Prowl, Volt's Electric Shield, Chroma's Old Vex Armor and Saryn's Toxic Lash, Nova AMD and MPrime go off of fully modded damage.

or this @Walkampf

[Zorah.Magdaros]

Don't know about you guys, but I never liked Chroma, now that he got fix/nerfed I'm kinda getting interested in him... I think I might have a "thing" for abandoned/forgotten characters, after all my favorite frame until this very day is Mag, I was a Excalibur main in the days of the old Super Jump and after the rework I lost a bit of interest. Dark Souls might have turned me into a damn Masoquist because I love using weak things.

Edited February 13, 2018 by -BRM-MetalGarurumonX

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb -BRM-MetalGarurumonX:

Don't know about you guys, but I never liked chroma, now that he got fix/nerfed I'm kinda getting interested in him... I think I might have a "thing" for abandoned/forgotten characters, after all my favorite frame until this very day is Mag, I was a Excalibur main in the days of the old Super Jump and after the rework I lost a bit of interest. Dark Souls might have turned me into a damn Masoquist because I love using weak things.

chroma will just disappoint you. he has nothing going for him. rhino buffs better and his tanking abilities are way stronger. ffs - oberon is tankier than chroma atm.

also his buff is abismal. 18m base range his horrible in a game like this - especially when u consider the size of PoE. and if you throw on some range (especially overextended) you are hurting the buff so dratic that its not even noticeable (even though the numbers seem high eg.800% fury buff 1000%scorn. thats all on base dmg /armor. it literally feels like nothing)

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

for example this

 

vor 1 Minute schrieb DeadlyCreation:

or this

 

Stop weaseling around the answer.

Those examples only show, that there is sombody else who maybe, under specific conditions can take even more damage.

How much % damage reduction do you want him to have don't rely on others.

What % do you want?

Come on, big boy.

You were offended, when i called you a glutton. Proof me wrong, tell me what it takes for you to make Chroma tanky enough.

Proof me, that you don't think, that Chroma has to be the best, but tell me, where he has to be, to be funtional!

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb Walkampf:

 

Stop weaseling around the answer.

Those examples only show, that there is sombody else who maybe, under specific conditions can take even more damage.

How much % damage reduction do you want him to have don't rely on others.

What % do you want?

Come on, big boy.

You were offended, when i called you a glutton. Proof me wrong, tell me what it takes for you to make Chroma tanky enough.

Proof me, that you don't think, that Chroma has to be the best, but tell me, where he has to be, to be funtional!

dude i am saying all the time: his buff can stay the same but he needs something else to make him unique. atm he is just rhino in worse. so either DE is bufing his tankyness again or they do somethign else. all i am saying is that chroma is currently worse than other frames. and ffs. go ahead and test chroma yourself. you never played him anyway and i can tell you the thing you will think: "okay this armor buff is okay. and yes he got abit of a dmg buff... everything rhino has aswell. ah well better leave chroma in the corner and tank with oberon because he is better at it"

[Walkampf]

 

vor 2 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

 so either DE is bufing his tankyness again

A!

Number!

0 - 100% which is it gonna be to statisfy you?

vor 2 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

or they do somethign else.

You mean like Vexarmor effecting teammates?

Edited February 13, 2018 by Walkampf

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

 

A!

Number!

0 - 100% which is it gonna be to statisfy you?

You mean like Vexarmor effecting teammates?

return it to the old formula or make chromas base armor around 800-1000. (<- there thats your number)

and second yes the idea is great but the range is horrible. 18m is nothing in a game where everyone is jumping around to dodge attacks. you literally are better jumping around all the time than staying close to chroma and getting his buff. especially when u consider frames like mag with a base armor of 65. chromas buff does not make a huge difference at all. considering you have a 1000% scorn buff mags armor is only twice as good as chromas base armor - and you know what. thats still oneshot when doing sorties. so just jump around and dodge bullets helps more than staying close to chroma.

if DE wants to keep this formula and the aura chromas scorn buff just needs to be higher so teammates have a reason not to move.

as you hopefully see now i am not against the changes - i am just saying they need some adjustments to make sense

Edited February 13, 2018 by DeadlyCreation

[Autongnosis]

The Atlas rework made, at least to me, even more dramatically clear what's wrong with Chroma. 

My Atlas build has <10k eHP. That's basically S#&amp;&#036; tier for a tank. BUT between the invulnerability provided by Landslide, the Bulwark having almost 35k HP, the hard CC provided by Petrify and the distraction provided by Rumblers, and the self heal from Rubble i never once felt inadequate, because other than rolling/jumping around like a madman on cocaine i had other options to avoid or redirect damage. 

Chroma has none of that. 

Chroma could get by with the amount of eHP he has NOW, but only if he got at least 2 out of 3 of these options:

• Reliable self heal
• Reliable CC
• Reliable team buff

Currently he has unreliable CC, unreliable team buff, and a bad self heal in only 1 oht of his 4 elements. The change to channeling abilities also killed the one Chroma build that could do burst heals (efficiency + strenght and min duration, you played on Effigy and spammed Fire Ward to heal yourself and allies) that incidentally would be amazing now thanks to Effigy's augment. 

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb DeadlyCreation:

return it to the old formula or make chromas base armor around 800.

So, to statisfy you, you want to revert him to be the strongest tank

and even more than double the baseamout...

 

Yeah, you are a glutton. You are absolutly redicilous.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Autongnosis:

The Atlas rework made, at least to me, even more dramatically clear what's wrong with Chroma. 

My Atlas build has <10k eHP. That's basically S#&amp;&#036; tier for a tank. BUT between the invulnerability provided by Landslide, the Bulwark having almost 35k HP, the hard CC provided by Petrify and the distraction provided by Rumblers, and the self heal from Rubble i never once felt inadequate, because other than rolling/jumping around like a madman on cocaine i had other options to avoid or redirect damage. 

Chroma has none of that. 

Chroma could get by with the amount of eHP he has NOW, but only if he got at least 2 out of 3 of these options:

• Reliable self heal
• Reliable CC
• Reliable team buff

Currently he has unreliable CC, unreliable team buff, and a bad self heal in only 1 oht of his 4 elements. The change to channeling abilities also killed the one Chroma build that could do burst heals (efficiency + strenght and min duration, you played on Effigy and spammed Fire Ward to heal yourself and allies) that incidentally would be amazing now thanks to Effigy's augment. 

yes this is what i am saying all the time. you got it all right! atm chroma is just unreliable.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

So, to statisfy you, you want to revert him to be the strongest tank

and even more than double the baseamout...

 

Yeah, you are a glutton. You are absolutly redicilous.

"strongest tank" in a game where we got wukong and valkyr. and rhinos armor protects him from status procs something chroma is not immune to. so no chroma would not even be the best tank in the game. he would be good enough to finally make sense to play again.

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb DeadlyCreation:

"strongest tank" in a game where we got wukong and valkyr. and rhinos armor protects him from status procs something chroma is not immune to. so no chroma would not even be the best tank in the game. he would be good enough to finally make sense to play again.

Compared to Wukong, sure, wukong is more resilient, however, he cannot buff his damage as the same time.

Compared to Valkyr, sure, she can tun invincable, but looses access to any equpied weapon.

Compared to Rhino, sure, ignore that his energycosts are massivly higher when you have to recast Ironskin roughly every 7 sekonds, when under full fire, compared to Chromas 25 seconds.

[o.0-]

What I'd like to see is Chroma have Effigy and Spectral Scream swap places and then build up Spectral Scream like other fourth abilities to a particular niche that Chroma can fill.

I've had ideas here:

 

[Zorah.Magdaros]

29 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

chroma will just disappoint you. he has nothing going for him. rhino buffs better and his tanking abilities are way stronger. ffs - oberon is tankier than chroma atm.

also his buff is abismal. 18m base range his horrible in a game like this - especially when u consider the size of PoE. and if you throw on some range (especially overextended) you are hurting the buff so dratic that its not even noticeable (even though the numbers seem high eg.800% fury buff 1000%scorn. thats all on base dmg /armor. it literally feels like nothing)

The fact that he has nothing going for him makes me interested on him, nothing batter than beating a great boss or fighting an army with the weakest character that exists, the thrill of getting up to try again after getting your &amp;#&#33; kicked is amazing, feels like I'm the MC of the start of a Shonen manga, and the feeling of overcoming a great challenge after many times is addicting.

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb -BRM-MetalGarurumonX:

The fact that he has nothing going for him makes me interested on him, nothing batter than beating a great boss or fighting an army with the weakest character that exists, the thrill of getting up to try again after getting your &amp;#&#33; kicked is amazing, feels like I'm the MC of the start of a Shonen manga, and the feeling of overcoming a great challenge after many times is addicting.

yes thats true but you could simply uninstall all mods. but having you say that just makes it more clear that chroma needs something. and good look at your boss slaying

[Zorah.Magdaros]

Just now, DeadlyCreation said:

yes thats true but you could simply uninstall all mods. but having you say that just makes it more clear that chroma needs something. and good look at your boss slaying

You have no idea how good feels to use your best gear, with the best stats, and still get beaten up by your enemies, have you tried playing Demon Souls/Dark Souls or Kenshi? Give it a try some time you might like it ;)

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb -BRM-MetalGarurumonX:

You have no idea how good feels to use your best gear, with the best stats, and still get beaten up by your enemies, have you tried playing Demon Souls/Dark Souls or Kenshi? Give it a try some time you might like it ;)

played it all. darksouls series being my most loved gaming series of all time. DS1 remastered HYPE. but anyway warframe is not a game about gettig beaten up. i cna understand your love to it but this doesnt make sense for warframe. this game provides you the feeling of being extremely strong and slaying all enemies. something that chroma doesnt provide anymore

[SenorClipClop]

On 2/10/2018 at 10:53 PM, Wevi said:

instead of singling out one branch they should help the rest and make even more branches for the flow of water to give people the creative freedom instead of just shutdown any frame that gets too big.

The thing with this is that when we have many channels and one flow is so much stronger, all the other channels dry up for lack of water. It's not the devs singling out one stream, it's the players. Freedom in the case of one stream being so much better is only got by deliberately straying from the "one true path". Blocking that path lets the water flow back into other streams.

"Creative freedom" is not an argument here, when everyone followed the exact same build because it was a hundred times better than any other.

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb SenorClipClop:

The thing with this is that when we have many channels and one flow is so much stronger, all the other channels dry up for lack of water. It's not the devs singling out one stream, it's the players. Freedom in the case of one stream being so much better is only got by deliberately straying from the "one true path". Blocking that path lets the water flow back into other streams.

"Creative freedom" is not an argument here, when everyone followed the exact same build because it was a hundred times better than any other.

sure DE can make another ability that resolves about something else. EG trinity EV and BLESS. but chromas other paths are just pure S#&amp;&#036;.

[Zorah.Magdaros]

2 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

played it all. darksouls series being my most loved gaming series of all time. DS1 remastered HYPE. but anyway warframe is not a game about gettig beaten up. i cna understand your love to it but this doesnt make sense for warframe. this game provides you the feeling of being extremely strong and slaying all enemies. something that chroma doesnt provide anymore

Yes, I know, and I am sure that DE knows this as well, I don't give more than 2 weeks for them to find a way to fix his broken code into something that will work nice and won't be broken AF, but until then I'll play with him a little so I can experience some Souls feeling in Warframe :D

The HYE for the DS remaster is killing me X_X

Edited February 13, 2018 by -BRM-MetalGarurumonX

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb -BRM-MetalGarurumonX:

Yes, I know, and I am sure that DE knows this as well, I don't give more than 2 weeks for them to find a way to fix his broken code into something that will work nice and won't be broken AF, but until then I'll play with him a little so I can experience some Souls feeling in Warframe :D

have fun :D dont forget the estoc!