The Current State of Forum Recruitment

[SSI_GG]

TLDR; New Recruitment Forum design is worse for virtually everyone using them, needs urgent review.
 

Previously, the PC Recruitment section of the Warframe Forums was divided up into several sections; one each for ‘Find a Squad’, ‘Alliances’, ‘Trading’, and five subsections for all Clan tiers. However - after the Condensed Recruitment Forum changes on 15/01/18, implemented due to “most subforums [...] not being used frequently enough” all Clan tiers, Alliances, and Squads were combined into one gigantic selection of 550 pages and 13,700+ recruitment topics (at the time of writing).

This change has drastically changed the dynamic of how the Recruitment Forums functions, to the detriment of the majority of active clans and average forum users. While it may have achieved the metric of higher statistical activity, this has come at multiple costs to the users. 

This post, a collaboration from a wide range of PC Clan and Alliance representatives, aims to succinctly outline the concerns about this change and, trusting it will be met with understanding, have the said change reversed, or at least come to a compromise which will benefit the Warframe community as a whole.

One can analyze the negative impact of the change in 2 main areas: for new forum users, and for established clans.

1. From the point of view of a new PC player:

a: Confusion from the start, and no forum tools to assist.    

A new player, looking to play with other members of the community, clicks on the Recruitment sub-forum. They’re greeted with a front page full with ‘Trading’, and dozens of uncategorized recruitment topics. Unlike the Recruitment Forums pre-change, which detailed and defined clan sizes and clearly separated Squad requests, Alliances, and Clans, there is no explanation for anything. There are tags for each clan tier, but these tags mean nothing to people who have no idea what the difference is between “Moon” and “Storm.” There isn’t even a tag to separate Alliances. Furthermore, one cannot search or sort posts with specific tags, so there is no way to filter the Recruitment Forums to what a player is looking for. Thus a newer player is left without assistance, and without any tools to streamline the overwhelming amount of information.

b: New posts and players quickly lost in the noise. 

A new clan, or perhaps someone just looking for a squad will get their post buried in a matter of hours by all of the other thousands of topics competing for a front page position which  is determined solely by when the most recent post was. With more entrenched clans posting variations on thread bumping (described elsewhere), new posts will be swiftly moved off to obscurity in under 24 hours (sometimes in less than 12 hours). This can also serve as a deterrent for people to even participate (at time of writing there are no squad threads on the front 2 pages). Less hectic subforums would not have this issue.

2. From the point of view of established clans:

a: Less exposure for all clans, disproportionately for newer and smaller clans.

Due to the hectic activity all concentrated in one place, clans will lose out on exposure in under 24 hours unless threads are constantly attended to on a daily basis. It goes without saying that very large clans that get many replies on their thread can essentially monopolize the front page due to high player intake, leaving especially smaller clans with a brief moment of exposure. Regarding anti-bumping,  [DE]Aidan stated that it is not allowed, but “new information/updates” are. Thus, large clans and alliances could and do get their members to post daily promotional updates on their various threads. This, effectively, bumps their post to the top of the first page. 

b: More work for less results, to a potentially uninterested audience.

If a clan, for example, does somehow manage to keep their post on the front page, they will be advertising to an extremely broad audience - this includes people who are just looking for one-off squads, different tiers, alliances, and to whom that specific clan is not relevant to their interests. As a result, many clans might actually struggle to get any increase in interested recruits. Non-stop hectic competition for attention with thousands of other threads, the constant influx of new posts, and de-facto monopolies from larger clans, smaller or more specialised clans have limited options in recruiting.

To summarise:
While everyone can appreciate the intention behind the decision to merge (more activity is normally a positive statistic), there appears to have been little consideration given to its impact on all players, which extend far wider than has been described here. For example:

- The aforementioned limitations with tags (cannot be filtered or searched) of course also affects more experienced players.
- All Clans and Alliances will produce less constructive forum content, now that they are forced to bump on a daily basis to stay relevant. 
- Forum Moderators will now receive unnecessary extra work, having to now police and pass judgement on various thread-bumping strategies and reports.

Bearing in mind that [DE]Drew stated “Stay tuned for additional forum features in the future that will make it easier to sort through the different types of recruitment threads”, it is concerning that it merely plans to add a search functionality but not address the central issue of a messy hectic forum. This is further reflected in [DE]Aidan’s post on Recruitment Guidelines, which only exists to reinforce existing forum guidelines, without addressing any of main concerns already mentioned in other posts on this issue (Post by ---RV---Maniac, Post by Suncake)

To conclude, while it is unknown to us the actual cost to DE of keeping the subforum separate, it is bewildering to think that forcing all threads into one section can be considered streamlining. It has, in fact, over-complicated life for all players, making the Recruitment Forums frustrating for everyone who has to use them. 

We trust this meets with understanding and DE will “continue to review forum activity and make improvements as needed!” Paying heed to the aforementioned, we trust for an urgent review of the forums.

Statistics and Data
We have gathered data from the Recruitment Forum threads of various clans in different clan tiers, which you may view here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vIbyDzuEssrn-lzVQrzTdqdjK19VP3fxy4HYlVr0tCQ/edit?usp=sharing This spreadsheet is still being constantly updated, and we will post on this thread should any major changes to it occur.

 

This post was made in collaboration with the following people and their respective clans/alliances: SSI_LordOfErebus and Huntragon from clan Space Shark Incorporated, MariAnnette from V Alliance, -PD-ImHeroic from the Phoenix Clans Family Alliance, -SM-Doomie from Solaris Alliance, OkniolasPrime from Blossoming Petals Alliance and clan Wardens of Blossom, QueenQue from Warframe Indonesia Community Alliance, ---RV---Maniac from clan Remnants of the Void, --Q--Devi from Quasars clan, -Vo-ThatBlue from clan Volatilis, Eisfurst from clan Blades of Genesis, Quillu from clan Level 1 Classified, and -CCC-Secret from clan Clem Cult Clan.

Edited February 13, 2018 by SSI_GG

[SSI_EVIDENCE]

All of my views regarding this topic are expressed in the above post, however, just to reaffirm:

While this change has been beneficial to Space Shark Incorporated and some other Moon Clans with high recruitment rates, we do not believe this to be beneficial to the wider Warframe community due to the worsened imbalance of recruitment, and various other issues stated above. Therefore, we wish for the change to be reconsidered.

Huge thanks to all of you for your devotion to both the community and the game, and looking forward to everybodys input! <3 

Edited February 13, 2018 by SSI_LordOfErebus

[OkniolasPrime]

My view on this topic is expressed above as well.

But, to add to that. My Clan is regional, meaning Recruitment was already slow, but having to compete with thousand of threads (Clan, Alliance, Squad) makes it nearly impossible without constant thread 'bumping' (which is forbid).

I do acknowledge that some of the separate Subforums might of been nearly dead, but why change it so it's only hurting the larger community (exuding Moon Clans, see SSI_LordOfErebus' post above)

 

[---RV---Maniac]

Agreed with the points made on this post.

Alot of clans have been buried under this new recruitment subforum format

[dreadley]

Furthermore, this change will consolidate the community around already established clans, effectively culling any kind competitive content DE plans to implement and give those clans bigger influence and control over the playerbase which may lead to subpar experience, bullying and abuse. 

 

Another possible outcome is what already happened with trading. Once DE doesn't provide  enough tools for an issue, community goes ahead and creates their own. Which will lead players to abandon the forums, more work for clan managements to maintain more than one threads and even less opportunity for DE to supervise and support the community. 

 

I don't see any of the sides benefiting from this decision. Even though my own clan (SSI) has seen the initial benefit of increased traffic, we prioritize the health of our community above ours and we believe these changes should be improved drastically or reverted immediately. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by dreadley

[--RV--Zephyr]

I agree with the points, it will be confusing for new Players to find a Clan and annoying for Vets to find a really good Clan.

[Shiditso]

 

Quote

Confusion from the start, and no forum tools to assist

I agree with this point, the jumbled mess of threads and tags can be unnerving to a new player who wishes to join a clan. However, it appears you are able to search for terms such as “Moon” and “Storm”, although the tags are poorly described and even more poorly applied.

Quote

New posts and players quickly lost in the noise

This is also true, and I can see why new posts would be readily swallowed up in the ever-amassing vortex that are the sub forums. However, there is relatively little difference between this new system, and the old system with respect to less-well known clans. For example, when going to the “Moon” clan thread, there were always 4 or 6 clans listed at the top of the page as “Hot” and those were the ones who got the most attention, whereas the remaining Moon clans would receive comparatively less attention.

Quote

Less exposure for all clans, disproportionately for newer and smaller clans

Again, correct, as the “hot” clans will stay at the top of the recruitment pages. However, this was not different that pre-change (see above). Ergo, the change has not affected this point.

Quote

More work for less results, to a potentially uninterested audience

I fail to see how this has been impacted by this change. These “specialized” smaller clans would have had the same problem pre-change. I think the only way for such selective clans to operate would be for people to search them out, using the search/tags feature, which would allow a player to select what attributes they’re looking for and go from there. Furthermore, such specialized clans likely emphasize veteran players, who are more likely to use the search feature as opposed to scrolling endlessly on the sub forums. Furthermore, smaller clans have always struggled for attention (see above).

 In general, I agree with this idea, the new “Recruitment” forum is obnoxious and hard to use. Even as a veteran player, I would not like to spend time there. Furthermore, for a new player trying to join their first clan, it could be daunting trying to find a clan to join.

 As for the google doc, there are several things to point out. But first, some statistics (my data spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eBcFPRP2k3s6Ec2YOU_qXc9XTwpikJ8US0Pye2I2bJE/edit?usp=sharing):

Total non-repeat/non-officer messages for the given clans before 15Jan18: 719

Total non-repeat/non-officer messages for the given clans after 15Jan18: 260

Average posts/day pre-change: 16

Average posts/day post-change: 10

And now, for some analysis. First, data are only available for the last ~80 days, which happens to coincide well with Christmas/Winter Break for many people, meaning many people now have free time to join the game, Ergo, it is conceivable that the pre-changes numbers reflect this sudden increase in free/available players; more data would be required (from DE regarding new players) to test that. Second, while there is more data available for pre-change, the average numbers are sufficient to see that there is a definitive decline in posts/day post-change. Why this is, it is hard to say (more data required), but the change is apparent.

However, the question remains how to improve this. Would you recommend going back to the old way? For starters, I would suggest removing a few of the unused tags (such as looking for squad or looking for clan). Next, I would consider dividing Clans and Alliances into separate sub forums (or removing Alliances in general, is it actually used?). Finally, better, searchable tags and explanations of what they mean.

 

And now, your reward:

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by RockLicker

[[DE]Drew]

There is now a subforum for Ghost Clans (which are the most active by a large margin). 

We'll continue to monitor and review forum activity. 

[NightmareT12]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

There is now a subforum for Ghost Clans (which are the most active by a large margin). 

We'll continue to monitor and review forum activity. 

Thanks Drew. Although I feel the other smaller tiers should be together as well. Maybe you should make them by Small-Medium-Big and it would even out. Then again I don't know stats for the old Moon clans subforums.