Luminati07 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Stealth kills should just be insta-kills. I'm not so sure about insta-kills. But they should definitely do a huge amount of damage. Enough to take out all enemies, with the exception of the highest level mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure_Kytia Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) So Hayden... How will DE make money from your changes? Number 1B is the only one that would actually potentially cost them money, and even then, Hayden was commenting on the unfairness in the massive variation of effort required in order to achieve the same goals. All of the rest would actually help with player retention and could only positively impact DE's success. I think you skimmed a lot of the details there, because none of the issues presented would necessarily lose DE out on any money. Try again. Edited August 9, 2013 by Azure_Kyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omagawolf Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 In stealth you should be scared of being seen. As in, as soon as you get seen you think "Oh S#&$ now I'm gonna die" scared. As of right now it's "welp I'm seen more things to kill now aww yesh" How to improve? I have no idea, I leave that to people that are good at coming up with ideas. I just add to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisvogel Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I'm not so sure about insta-kills. But they should definitely do a huge amount of damage. Enough to take out all enemies, with the exception of the highest level mobs. Nah they should be insta-kills.... i mean, what kind of stealth assassination attack would they be... if you don't actually kill the target? XD.... that's usually the point of being stealthy =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Stealth kills should just be insta-kills. Stealth attacks should never be insta kill at higher levels... Wouldn't make sense for suddenly a sneak crit attack to have instant death no matter what... Should you be able to insta kill an ancient with a sneak attack? no... should you be able to insta kill a boss? no... Should you be able to insta kill a Fusion? NO ARE YOU INSANE!? NO NO AND NO... it doesn't make sense for a sneak attack to be able to kill higher level enemies that are far more powerful then regulars... sure it insta kills low level enemies... but give the system a break... just how far should sneak kills go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden11121 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 If you good folks would mind telling me how to "Spoiler" the gifs that'd be great. I will Edit in some ideas in a special section in another placeholder for forum made suggestions of how to fix things. I am pointing things out and letting the creative process happen with more then one mind. After all, I'm not the brightest apparently when it comes to game suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Number 1B is the only one that would actually potentially cost them money, and even then, Hayden was commenting on the unfairness in the massive variation of effort required in order to achieve the same goals. All of the rest would actually help with player retention and could only positively impact DE's success. I think you skimmed a lot of the details there, because none of the issues presented would necessarily lose DE out on any money. Try again. I did read the entire thing... personally I wasn't happy with any of it... for me it just seemed counter productive as a player to do any of those things. Why make the game easier? That doesn't make any sense at all... That would ruin all the fun of building, and collecting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure_Kytia Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 use [.spoiler] [./spoiler] tags, without the . Place the images within the tags, and bam. Insta hidden Like so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shion963 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Complaining only brings already known issues to their attention (and they already know that RNG as it is right now doesn't work well), it doesn't provide any way to fix it. "DE doesn't care" means worlds away from "DE has other things in their pipeline for now". The former makes people complain more, because apparently the DEvs don't care about them at all. The latter encourages people to discuss the problems and offer possible solutions. And people complain about EVEYRTHING. UI is sucky, 'frames needs balancing, guns need buffing, RNG needs trimming. But DEvs can only do so much at one time. Kudos to you bro~ No pun intended. DE thinks adding more weapons and primes and mods will make WARFRAME better... they are just shortcuts around the core of their problem. To be honest, they should try to get PC version to release and done right before doing any console version or origin... sigh... Weapon makers are a different team than the coders, tileset makers, sound creators, visual team. New weapons doesn't require input from the other guys, mostly from the graphics designers, and sound guys. AFAIK DEvs are always looking to fix things, while adding new things to prevent players from being burnt out. Imagine them being silent for a whole update, just focusing on bugfixes. No new content, no events. And console 'release' is just expanding the testing to other platforms, and are still under development. Not actual Release. If anything, Console version updates will be based on the PC, and adapted to the console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden11121 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 I did read the entire thing... personally I wasn't happy with any of it... for me it just seemed counter productive as a player to do any of those things. Why make the game easier? That doesn't make any sense at all... That would ruin all the fun of building, and collecting... I did not suggest making everything easy. RNG isn't easy. Stealth is something hard to pull off... Multishot reliant builds are easier then customization could be... Did you really read it Aralyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Stealth attacks should never be insta kill at higher levels... Wouldn't make sense for suddenly a sneak crit attack to have instant death no matter what... Should you be able to insta kill an ancient with a sneak attack? no... should you be able to insta kill a boss? no... Should you be able to insta kill a Fusion? NO ARE YOU INSANE!? NO NO AND NO... it doesn't make sense for a sneak attack to be able to kill higher level enemies that are far more powerful then regulars... sure it insta kills low level enemies... but give the system a break... just how far should sneak kills go? If your weapon is silenced and strong enough that with the stealth bonus (and we should have mods that increase stealth attack damage) then yes you should be able to. Or else you run into the problem we do now. You stealth attack them. Then they get right back up and instant alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I did not suggest making everything easy. RNG isn't easy. Stealth is something hard to pull off... Multishot reliant builds are easier then customization could be... Did you really read it Aralyn? Yep... and by now you should know my stance on most topics hayden... I post a lot on these forums and have fought back many times in almost every topic that was related to changing certain game mechanics.. maybe I am old school... Maybe I like that punishment I used to get from playing Castle Vania, or Mario... I like it hard... Not this cheap easy stuff we have been seeing in currents games, and not the totally off the wall take seven years to collect MMOs that have been popping up everywhere... Warframe has by far the best system I have seen in a long time... its not punishing like an Xbox... but its not too brain dead like a Wii... Its right smack in the middle... like a PS3 waiting for great improvements in the future, more features, more missions(DONT TAKE AWAY RAID!!!) and so many things in the future to make this game more wonderful... Why should I agree to make things simple? I want things complicated and hard... I enjoy the punishing challenge of going at it, again, and again... That's just me... that's how I like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelGuardcc Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 wall of text.... not good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure_Kytia Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I believe Hayden's suggestions generally revolved around opening the viability of weapons to a larger variety than one or two. In regards to Mod rareness, Hayden took issue with the fact that players can get the best mods on day one of their gameplay, on Mercury if they so had the luck, meanwhile long-standing players still haven't gotten them. Seems to me Arlayn you're kneejerking to a post listing issues he has taken with the game without fully understanding what he's saying. Otherwise your posts wouldn't be revolving around how he said "to make the game easier". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisvogel Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Yep... and by now you should know my stance on most topics hayden... I post a lot on these forums and have fought back many times in almost every topic that was related to changing certain game mechanics.. maybe I am old school... Maybe I like that punishment I used to get from playing Castle Vania, or Mario... I like it hard... Not this cheap easy stuff we have been seeing in currents games, and not the totally off the wall take seven years to collect MMOs that have been popping up everywhere... Warframe has by far the best system I have seen in a long time... its not punishing like an Xbox... but its not too brain dead like a Wii... Its right smack in the middle... like a PS3 waiting for great improvements in the future, more features, more missions(DONT TAKE AWAY RAID!!!) and so many things in the future to make this game more wonderful... Why should I agree to make things simple? I want things complicated and hard... I enjoy the punishing challenge of going at it, again, and again... That's just me... that's how I like it... If you enjoy cheap fake difficulty, then i respect your opinion Now, if you call this real difficulty or challenge, then i will just laugh..... Stat variation is just cheap and boring, as it's mentioned countless times. We need actual challenges and endgame content. There are some nice suggestions out there, no reason to disregard them... we really need the challenge, this ain't it.... it's just bullet sponges and longer or faster to kill = boring and tiresome sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 If your weapon is silenced and strong enough that with the stealth bonus (and we should have mods that increase stealth attack damage) then yes you should be able to. Or else you run into the problem we do now. You stealth attack them. Then they get right back up and instant alert. ....... insta kill a boss, Ancient, heavy unit, fusion Moa.... What.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden11121 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 wall of text.... not good The Prime Example of why I used GIFs, and it went past this reader either way. I guess I can't please everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Yep... and by now you should know my stance on most topics hayden... I post a lot on these forums and have fought back many times in almost every topic that was related to changing certain game mechanics.. maybe I am old school... Maybe I like that punishment I used to get from playing Castle Vania, or Mario... I like it hard... Not this cheap easy stuff we have been seeing in currents games, and not the totally off the wall take seven years to collect MMOs that have been popping up everywhere... Warframe has by far the best system I have seen in a long time... its not punishing like an Xbox... but its not too brain dead like a Wii... Its right smack in the middle... like a PS3 waiting for great improvements in the future, more features, more missions(DONT TAKE AWAY RAID!!!) and so many things in the future to make this game more wonderful... Why should I agree to make things simple? I want things complicated and hard... I enjoy the punishing challenge of going at it, again, and again... That's just me... that's how I like it... I like that you use Castlevania (one word, by the way) as an example when it is one of the prime examples of artificial difficulty in classic gaming. ....... insta kill a boss, Ancient, heavy unit, fusion Moa.... What.... Not much of a stealth run if you're running around getting detected all the time. Edited August 9, 2013 by DAWGUNITALPHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden11121 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 ....... insta kill a boss, Ancient, heavy unit, fusion Moa.... What.... Ancients are common. Not too bad. Fusion MOAs are really weak either way. Their armor scales the worst... Why is that bad? Bosses can't be 1 shot via assassination. /endofrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 If you enjoy cheap fake difficulty, then i respect your opinion Now, if you call this real difficulty or challenge, then i will just laugh..... Stat variation is just cheap and boring, as it's mentioned countless times. We need actual challenges and endgame content. There are some nice suggestions out there, no reason to disregard them... we really need the challenge, this ain't it.... it's just bullet sponges and longer or faster to kill = boring and tiresome sooner or later. Ever played CastleVania Simon's Quest...? Yeah... once you've played that you know what REAL FAKE GRATIFICATION LOOKS LIKE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisvogel Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Ever played CastleVania Simon's Quest...? Yeah... once you've played that you know what REAL FAKE GRATIFICATION LOOKS LIKE!!! Yeah... but there are infinitely better imo........ you have Dark Souls on one hand..... you have old style things like 1943 or Meatboy..... there's also the ship indie => FTL (though a bit easier and less hardcore than others)... and many more And those are all based on your skills and capacity to adapt and plan ahead, not just some cheap stat difficulty Edited August 9, 2013 by Eisvogel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Ever played CastleVania Simon's Quest...? Yeah... once you've played that you know what REAL FAKE GRATIFICATION LOOKS LIKE!!! Simon's Quest is one of the worst castlevania games. In part due to terrible, aged game design and in part due to an awful translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminati07 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Stealth attacks should never be insta kill at higher levels... Wouldn't make sense for suddenly a sneak crit attack to have instant death no matter what... Should you be able to insta kill an ancient with a sneak attack? no... should you be able to insta kill a boss? no... Should you be able to insta kill a Fusion? NO ARE YOU INSANE!? NO NO AND NO... it doesn't make sense for a sneak attack to be able to kill higher level enemies that are far more powerful then regulars... sure it insta kills low level enemies... but give the system a break... just how far should sneak kills go? ^ Like I said before, I think stealth attacks should do a substantial amount of damage, and able to kill almost every enemy, with the exception of the highest levels. If you have a fully modded, level 30 melee weapon, you should definitely kill a level 15 ancient. Anyway, I was thinking about stealth, I think this would be a nice way to do it: If you stealth attack an enemy, and they don't die, you cripple them. If you send a knife through an enemy, or slam to the ground with the Orthos, you'd expect them to be damaged. This could be done in a variety of ways. They could start limping towards a control panel or they start bleeding out (DoT). Could be weapon dependant. That's a nice way of doing things, rather than simply buffing damage. I think I might make a thread on that...That actually seems like a good idea :) Edited August 9, 2013 by Nugget_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 ^ Like I said before, I think stealth attacks should do a substantial amount of damage, and able to kill almost every enemy, with the exception of the highest levels. If you have a fully modded, level 30 melee weapon, you should definitely kill a level 15 ancient. So you could only stealth run about three planets then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Simon's Quest is one of the worst castlevania games. In part due to terrible, aged game design and in part due to an awful translation. Did you do the grinding? Where you had to run back and forth to collect hearts, to buy stuff? Then if you died you lost it all... then had to do it ALL OVER AGAIN... that was EVIL!!! That is fake gratification punishment.... EVIL FAKE PUNISHMENT!!! Running back and forth killing SKELETONS KILLING MORE SKELETONS KILLING AND KILLING for MORE HEARTS!!! Just to buy things... and then doing it all over again... that was fake gratification... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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