why not universal vacuum

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

are we really going to argue semantics here? it flat out makes you more efficient at killing since you wont have to walk around gathering loot and orbs, and thats all the stat boost definition you need.

maybe how every different person actually had a different ideas from the start and this argument isnt all black and white like you seemingly think?

it was not a suggestion that you wanted everything cus you want UV(cus, you know, i also do want UV so suggesting that would hurt my own argument so why the hell would i do that?), it was a sarcastic poke at your dumb reasoning of "i want this so it should be implemented" without giving any facts to your argument. its nothing short of cancerous especially when combined with your mentality of "if you criticise me youre on the other side" with a lethal dose of assumptionism.

THANK YOU - I completely FORGOT to even point out how this would affect Health/Energy orbs, essentially giving some frames infinite power!  Who needs efficiency mods when they can just inately drawl in all the nearby orbs?  Then they can just focus on POWER, POWER, POWER.   This is ridiculous...how do people not see this flaw?

[Zeclem]

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

THANK YOU - I completely FORGOT to even point out how this would affect Health/Energy orbs, essentially giving some frames infinite power!  Who needs efficiency mods when they can just inately drawl in all the nearby orbs?  Then they can just focus on POWER, POWER, POWER.   This is ridiculous...how do people not see this flaw?

well just having all the orbs getting sucked towards you wont really save you from having to grind zenurik when going for negative efficiency builds, but it sure as hell helps. 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

4 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

it flat out makes you more efficient at killing since you wont have to walk around gathering loot and orbs

Actually you do. It doesn't suck up everything immediately everywhere on the map.

6 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

maybe how every different person actually had a different ideas from the start and this argument isnt all black and white like you seemingly think?

Nope. People were sqwaking about how it's not necessary and won't make a difference.

7 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

"i want this so it should be implemented"

Wrong. My reasoning is "I want this as an option and it doesn't have any negative affect on anyone, so why can't it be implemented?"

 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

essentially giving some frames infinite power!

Please just stop. Your posts are getting worse and worse.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Don't forget you opened with "Don't be a @&&££$£". Acting like you tried to be civil is a lost cause.

According to you they loose money over it. So why would they not hate Vacuum?

Slash would still have been the meta, as those changes were ridiculous. Impact would send enemies flying. Puncture would reduce damage of one enemy. Whoop de do. That is why they were recalled.

And do you not feel like that change was better? Before you were shoehorned into one choice, but now your Helios is extra helpful.

Stats meaning actual affects to your survival, enemies, weapons. 

Could have fooled me. What with all your posts trying so desperately to prove how I'm wrong and mysterious polls which you still haven't provided a link too because reasons.

Never said it was. 

No, I don't feel the change to Helios was better.  But, it's there and it's efficient so I'll use it because why wouldn't I?  And that's kinda the point with the whole "Make the vacuum toggleable!" argument. It's dumb.  People won't turn off the advantage that everyone else has...why would they?  Doesn't mean it should be there.

You did not initially mention survival stat, nor did anyone who replied imply otherwise. Survival stats are not the only stats.  ...but since you wanna talk survival...pulling in nearby health orbs/ energy orbs without even needing the sacrifice of a slot or pet loadout IS a stat advantage, brought to you by that vacuum.  That's honestly one of the reasons Nekros' Desecrate was created.  For the endless amount of health it drops and keeps him alive.  Not for loot.  That was just a happy byproduct.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

7 minutes ago, Lemon said:

@Taishin_Ishu

You play on console, you move about as fast as a turtle. Of course you don't think you need universal vacuum, i think console players shouldn't have a say in this matter. Univac is necessary more than ever especially after adding open world areas and consistently making map tiles larger.

I move just as fast, thanks :/  Don't know why you would think otherwise.  And given that this change would impact my gameplay experience as well, don't know why I, or any other console player, shouldn't have a say. 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

No, I don't feel the change to Helios was better.

Of course you don't. Exactly the reply I expected.

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

People won't turn off the advantage that everyone else has...why would they?

Um, you do realise that right now a lot of people don't use vacuum.

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Survival stats are not the only stats.  ...but since you wanna talk survival...pulling in nearby health orbs/ energy orbs without even needing the sacrifice of a slot or pet loadout IS a stat advantage, brought to you by that vacuum.

And? It's not like Vacuum sucks up everything in a mile radius. And again apparently vacuum isn't necessary to achieve "infinite power".

[Zeclem]

Just now, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Actually you do. It doesn't suck up everything immediately everywhere on the map.

yeah instead it sucks half of the room where majority of kills happen. it definitely does not help you focus on killing. /s

Just now, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Nope. People were sqwaking about how it's not necessary and won't make a difference.

they were different people. tf you even on?

Just now, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Wrong. My reasoning is "I want this as an option and it doesn't have any negative affect on anyone, so why can't it be implemented?"

me shooting stuff from my zaw wont hurt others too. why cant i have it? or me wiping the map with just entering it either. WHY CANT I HAVE THESE NICE THINGS PEOPLE??????

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I move just as fast, thanks :/  Don't know why you would think otherwise.  And given that this change would impact my gameplay experience as well, don't know why I, or any other console player, shouldn't have a say. 

He's an elitist just ignore him.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, Zeclem said:

it definitely does not help you focus on killing. /s

And thats a bad thing?

Just now, Zeclem said:

they were different people. tf you even on?

So? That's the overall tone people have been spouting thus far.

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

me shooting stuff from my zaw wont hurt others too. why cant i have it? or me wiping the map with just entering it either. WHY CANT I HAVE THESE NICE THINGS PEOPLE??????

Be mature. It will hurt other peoples gameplay experience just like old Ash did. Vacuum however does not interfere with others gameplay experience like that. Please stop using these false equivalency fallacies.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Of course you don't. Exactly the reply I expected.

Um, you do realise that right now a lot of people don't use vacuum.

And? It's not like Vacuum sucks up everything in a mile radius. And again apparently vacuum isn't necessary to achieve "infinite power".

Wow, all of those things were horribly taken out of context, dude.

1. Of course you expected my reply....I literally said as much a few posts before.

2. Whether people use Vacuum currently or not (and again, you made the claim so...provide the PROOF, in your own words), isn't my problem. DE has provided the means to use Vacuum. It already exists. If they don't use it now, that's on them.

3. I said if a larger-radius, UV sucked up nearby loot/health/energy, as it is designed to do, it would provide ""Infinite" power", as in you would just keep the energy coming (most of my builds already see this happen.  I can activate some 4ths once and not have to worry the rest of the mission)...and if this were a passive on a frame, it'd only be worse.  Because then, on top of drawling in all nearby orbs with no downside to feed your skill-spam, you could also ditch the vacuum pet, meaning now you're maxing your DPS/power/whatever else with another pet, and no mod space lost.  It's overkill and not needed.  Balance IS needed.

[Isca]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I somewhat agree here.  They'd basically be doing to Chesa what they did to Carrier, though I'm not sure Chesa would survive as it hasn't got as much going for it as the sentinel. That being said, all I'm honestly trying to say, and somehow being painted a villain for doing so, is exactly what you said: It should not be free, passive, or whatever.  Advantages need disadvantages to balance them out.  Adding vacuum to pets should require a slot. Yes.  Big part of the reason I don't agree with it being added on to Warframes directly, because there is less sacrifice when you can have a Warframe + Vacuum + best DPS/CC Pet etc....Where is the sacrifice?  

Again, Isca, I appreciate the civil discussion, I honestly do. Thank you.

Thanks, I appreciate civil, constructive debate too! Obviously we are all here because we all love playing Warframe, it's important to remember that. We have a big chunk of common ground! ;)

I do also want Warframe to be at least somewhat challenging. It's a very casual game as it stands. However, not having vacuum isn't my idea of a challenge, it's just tedious. I want more real challenges, like a properly scaling endgame with risk/reward elements! :)

As far as Chesa goes, I guess it must already be one of the least-used companions and needs a lot of love. Personally I'd like to see it buffed as a specialist sniffer dog; perhaps we could have the ability to release it, let it dash off within a 100m (or whatever) radius and seek stuff like ayatan sculptures, syndicate medallions, caches etc, which it could then waypoint for us? To make it so that you didn't just AFK whilst it did that, maybe the doggie would just sit by the precious thing it found until you went there, then you'd release it again. Just a thought off the top of my head :)

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Whether people use Vacuum currently or not (and again, you made the claim so...provide the PROOF, in your own words),

Proof: The pages of this thread where a lot of people say they don't use vacuum by choice.

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

as in you would just keep the energy coming

So those who claim they pick up loot faster without vacuum are achieving infinite power too? Or what about the ones who run Zenurik?

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Because then, on top of drawling in all nearby orbs with no downside to feed your skill-spam you could also ditch the vacuum pet, meaning now you're maxing your DPS/power/whatever else with another pet, and no mod space lost.

Again, vacuum doesn't suddenly make pets OP. 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

I like those ideas, Isca!  Perhaps Chesa, rather than having its uniqueness given away, should instead be doubled-down on!  Maybe giving it a higher rare drop chance? I like the "marking the spot" thing too, though people already "complain" about having to "move around too much"...which bewilders me in a game with space ninjas where the movement style is so wonderfully unique.

[SilentMobius]

To remind everyone of DE's stated position on this:

• There is a 3m vacuum effect on Warframes as of POE
• There is the possibility that a Warframe vacuum mod will be implemented to extend the Warframe vacuum radius
• The Warframe vacuum radius will not be as large as the sentinel mod regardless of speculative new mods

DE has a simple philosophy, you can agree with it or not but it exists and any argument that doesn't work in these terms isn't going to make much of a dent.

• Collecting loot is a task, just like shooting things, that DE want in the game, this is non-negotiable.
• For the cost of manoeuvre actions the player is rewarded with collected loot
• For players that do not want to pay that price they can pay a different price, via a specific companion selection and a companion mod slot
• Or, possibly, for reduced effect, a Warframe slot

You can argue all you like about it not being good for the game or the detail of what you-as-a-player want but the above is DE's stance.

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, Isca said:

Thanks, I appreciate civil, constructive debate too! Obviously we are all here because we all love playing Warframe, it's important to remember that. We have a big chunk of common ground! ;)

I do also want Warframe to be at least somewhat challenging. It's a very casual game as it stands. However, not having vacuum isn't my idea of a challenge, it's just tedious. I want more real challenges, like a properly scaling endgame with risk/reward elements! :)

As far as Chesa goes, I guess it must already be one of the least-used companions and needs a lot of love. Personally I'd like to see it buffed as a specialist sniffer dog; perhaps we could have the ability to release it, let it dash off within a 100m (or whatever) radius and seek stuff like ayatan sculptures, syndicate medallions, caches etc, which it could then waypoint for us? To make it so that you didn't just AFK whilst it did that, maybe the doggie would just sit by the precious thing it found until you went there, then you'd release it again. Just a thought off the top of my head :)

Meant my above post as a reply to yours, Isca, sorry lol

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Proof: The pages of this thread where a lot of people say they don't use vacuum by choice.

So those who claim they pick up loot faster without vacuum are achieving infinite power too? Or what about the ones who run Zenurik?

Again, vacuum doesn't suddenly make pets OP. 

That is no more "proof" than reviews on Yelp.  The complainers are usually the vocal majority, meaning they are LOUDER, because those that are content are enjoying the things the others are complaining about.  I've been to 5-star hotels that were given 1-star ratings for pages and pages...and my experience was fantastic.  It means nothing. It's just a soapbox for people who want to complain and rant.

Show me numbers...as you demand of me. Is that not fair?

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Proof: The pages of this thread where a lot of people say they don't use vacuum by choice.

So those who claim they pick up loot faster without vacuum are achieving infinite power too? Or what about the ones who run Zenurik?

Again, vacuum doesn't suddenly make pets OP. 

And yes, energy gain is a bit of an issue.  Vacuum and energy looting are not mutually exclusive issues, however.  Don't try to dilute the point.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

That is no more "proof" than reviews on Yelp

It's better than your non-existent proof that DE would loose money over a univac.

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Vacuum and energy looting are not mutually exclusive issues, however.  Don't try to dilute the point.

Not trying to dilute anything. Merely applying your logic to other elements of the game and what other people have said. Because apparently Vacuum and only Vacuum makes frames have "infinite power".

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

5 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

To remind everyone of DE's stated position on this:

• There is a 3m vacuum effect on Warframes as of POE
• There is the possibility that a Warframe vacuum mod will be implemented to extend the Warframe vacuum radius
• The Warframe vacuum radius will not be as large as the sentinel mod regardless of speculative new mods

DE has a simple philosophy, you can agree with it or not but it exists and any argument that doesn't work in these terms isn't going to make much of a dent.

• Collecting loot is a task, just like shooting things, that DE want in the game, this is non-negotiable.
• For the cost of manoeuvre actions the player is rewarded with collected loot
• For players that do not want to pay that price they can pay a different price, via a specific companion selection and a companion mod slot
• Or, possibly, for reduced effect, a Warframe slot

You can argue all you like about it not being good for the game of the detail of what you-as-a-player want but the above is DE's stance.

 

Bravo! Wish you had posted this hours sooner! lol (jkjk) but seriously, better than I was able to communicate it.  Other stances aside, this is solid fact.  I'd say that completes this thread.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Just now, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

It's better than your non-existent proof that DE would loose money over a univac.

Not trying to dilute anything. Merely applying your logic to other elements of the game and what other people have said. Because apparently Vacuum and only Vacuum makes frames have "infinite power".

Where did I say "ONLY Vacuum" does this?

[Isca]

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Meant my above post as a reply to yours, Isca, sorry lol

Got it! ;) Yeah, one of the things I love about Warframe is the fluid movement system. I spend most missions parkouring like crazy, aimgliding, climbing stuff just for the sake of it... hehe. Which is why I get a little sad when 'lazy' gets pulled out in reference to wanting vacuum on pets. I'm not lazy, I love to play this game very actively and will always keep on the move even whilst others are cheesing a mobile defence. What I hate about no-vacuum play is being forced out of my groove to root myself to the floor and go and stand on that energy orb instead of sucking it up and continuing to rain death on my foes. It breaks my flow.

It's one reason I kinda hate archwing, and never loved Titania either; the movement in those modes is also less pleasing to begin with, but having to grind to a halt and position myself right on a pickup to get it kills the breakneck speed element of it. Now I've raised this issue, I'd definitely say vacuum for Archwings should be a thing, either universal or as a slottable mod.

Of course, archwing companions would be a fun addition too... kavat with its own mini-archwing, anyone? ;D

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Show me numbers...as you demand of me. Is that not fair?

Sure I can put up a poll if you want me too.

Also while I'm at it, can you provide the proof you owe me about the financial claims?

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Where did I say "ONLY Vacuum" does this?

You mentioned vacuum as giving frames infinite power, not taking into account the players who apparantly farm faster without it and those who run Zenurik. By your logic, those would be issues too. Care to make a thread advocating the nerf of energy drops and Zenurik?

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, Isca said:

Got it! ;) Yeah, one of the things I love about Warframe is the fluid movement system. I spend most missions parkouring like crazy, aimgliding, climbing stuff just for the sake of it... hehe. Which is why I get a little sad when 'lazy' gets pulled out in reference to wanting vacuum on pets. I'm not lazy, I love to play this game very actively and will always keep on the move even whilst others are cheesing a mobile defence. What I hate about no-vacuum play is being forced out of my groove to root myself to the floor and go and stand on that energy orb instead of sucking it up and continuing to rain death on my foes. It breaks my flow.

It's one reason I kinda hate archwing, and never loved Titania either; the movement in those modes is also less pleasing to begin with, but having to grind to a halt and position myself right on a pickup to get it kills the breakneck speed element of it. Now I've raised this issue, I'd definitely say vacuum for Archwings should be a thing, either universal or as a slottable mod.

Of course, archwing companions would be a fun addition too... kavat with its own mini-archwing, anyone? ;D

Haha! That'd be awesome...Kavats in space... xD   I can see Kubrows with little spacesuit fishbowl helmets now....and Kavat could have literal fishbowls because cats.  (Sorry it's almost 7am.  brain is out there, I suppose)

I can appreciate the view on Archwing. I  don't actually mind the movement, as it fits pretty well with physics, but a vacuum mod for Archwing wouldn't hurt, given the sheer movement style which is vastly different from movement on the planet's surface.  Of course, this could complicate Archwing usage on PoE and other planet-based maps.

That being said, I'm in favor of some vacuum-esque reworks for pets, though I think it should start, again, with doubling down on Chesa Kubrow before they go giving it away, but that's just my opinion.  I still think Warframes shouldn't really get it, nor should the range be expanded.

To be clear, I'm not advocating no-vacuum gameplay. I almost ALWAYS have vacuum modded pets on...