Focus Tree Reset Option

[ShinTechG]

Hello DE,

Can we please have an option to reverse/reset points spent into different focus schools? This reset option would refund us the focus spent for that school so we can spend it back how we choose.

I have found myself spending points into abilities I thought might be useful, but testing, I find the ability not as useful to me as I thought. I'm sure many players can agree we deserve to be able to do this since we spent time earning the points.

I think this is a much needed option that could be implemented easily, no?

Thanks!  :)

[Xebov]

I would rather see a much higher Focus income. The wish for reset capabilities mainly comes from the low focus income and thus gives the feeling of wasted points. Its time to drastically increase focus gain so its possible for players to earn the cap while normally playing, just like most syndicate standings.

[-Trey-]

Maybe if it cost decent amount of plat. Else people would reset it before every mission and take abilities they need for that certain mission.

[ShinTechG]

11 minutes ago, -Trey- said:

Maybe if it cost decent amount of plat. Else people would reset it before every mission and take abilities they need for that certain mission.

Yeah I would agree with costing plat but shouldnt be a crazy high amount.  Resetting to take certain abilities before every mission is just being very smart. It's the same as equiping certain weapons, loadouts, etc for certain missions 

Edited February 19, 2018 by ShinTechG

[ShinTechG]

1 hour ago, Xebov said:

I would rather see a much higher Focus income. The wish for reset capabilities mainly comes from the low focus income and thus gives the feeling of wasted points. Its time to drastically increase focus gain so its possible for players to earn the cap while normally playing, just like most syndicate standings.

My only fear of a higher income is experiencing everything too fast them getting bored early because nothing left to max out.

TIP: It is easy to reach the daily focus cap by either eidolon farming (first one on repeat is easy) or doing defense mission on hydrod with focus lenes equipped. I have found it efficient to use frames with abilities and weapons that can hit a lot of enemies at a time on the map. 

[-Trey-]

Thing about higher income is that it can already be extremely high. People are killing 12 eidolons in 50 min, if im not mistaken thats 620k focus in 50 min and you still have your 250k daily limit. That's just single PoE night, do it 2 times per day and it's 1.2 mil +250k. All you really need is a guild and some friends to give you that initial push for some quills standing and most needed madurai passives and you're on a road to completely max all your focus trees in half of winter school break.

[Xebov]

2 hours ago, -Trey- said:

Thing about higher income is that it can already be extremely high. People are killing 12 eidolons in 50 min, if im not mistaken thats 620k focus in 50 min and you still have your 250k daily limit. That's just single PoE night, do it 2 times per day and it's 1.2 mil +250k. All you really need is a guild and some friends to give you that initial push for some quills standing and most needed madurai passives and you're on a road to completely max all your focus trees in half of winter school break.

Im talking about the 250k cap. There is this cap, but its still extremely slow to fill unless you do special things. Eidolon farming on the other hand is just boring to be honest. It feels extremely repetetive.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I'm fairly sure that DE said that the update for Focus 2.5 was the last time they're doing 'resets'. But I think the issue really is that they see the Focus System like the Mod Fusing or Mastery Rank Systems, and not like levelling a Warframe or Weapon.

While you can, and have to, Forma a Warframe in order to put more Polarity on it for modding, that doesn't reset the gains you made for reaching level 30, it's purely beneficial to place a Forma on things, but it's also a permanent change, if you put the wrong Polarity on there you have to completely re-level and then invest in another Forma.

Focus has no real 'cap'. You can just keep adding 'mod points' until the system notices you've got more than you'd ever need, and then stops you. Likewise, none of the Nodes are actually mandatory, you can switch them on and off, although about a third of them are dependent on their counterpart being active in the tree to be active too.

But all gains are beneficial, even if you've tested and found that they aren't particularly beneficial to you at the time (who knows? The node you thought was rubbish today could be OP in a patch in three months time... I know that Basilisk Scales wasn't useful for most of my preferred frames at first, but then it added flat base armour in the most recent iteration and suddenly it changed 5% damage reduction to 30% reduction on my Banshee, Trin and Zephyr), these are permanent buffs to your gameplay and available to you regardless of Warframe, Weapon or other loadout options.

So... the short of it would be...

Just because you don't find the node you invested in useful for right now, doesn't mean you either have to use it, or that you should be able to reclaim that Focus and put it into something else. Because you can always just gain more. That's the point of a Grind-based Loot-farming game.

[ShinTechG]

14 hours ago, Thaylien said:

I'm fairly sure that DE said that the update for Focus 2.5 was the last time they're doing 'resets'. But I think the issue really is that they see the Focus System like the Mod Fusing or Mastery Rank Systems, and not like levelling a Warframe or Weapon.

While you can, and have to, Forma a Warframe in order to put more Polarity on it for modding, that doesn't reset the gains you made for reaching level 30, it's purely beneficial to place a Forma on things, but it's also a permanent change, if you put the wrong Polarity on there you have to completely re-level and then invest in another Forma.

Focus has no real 'cap'. You can just keep adding 'mod points' until the system notices you've got more than you'd ever need, and then stops you. Likewise, none of the Nodes are actually mandatory, you can switch them on and off, although about a third of them are dependent on their counterpart being active in the tree to be active too.

But all gains are beneficial, even if you've tested and found that they aren't particularly beneficial to you at the time (who knows? The node you thought was rubbish today could be OP in a patch in three months time... I know that Basilisk Scales wasn't useful for most of my preferred frames at first, but then it added flat base armour in the most recent iteration and suddenly it changed 5% damage reduction to 30% reduction on my Banshee, Trin and Zephyr), these are permanent buffs to your gameplay and available to you regardless of Warframe, Weapon or other loadout options.

So... the short of it would be...

Just because you don't find the node you invested in useful for right now, doesn't mean you either have to use it, or that you should be able to reclaim that Focus and put it into something else. Because you can always just gain more. That's the point of a Grind-based Loot-farming game.

Have you actually played and experienced all focus trees before making that statement?  "Just because you don't find the node you invested in useful for right now, doesn't mean you either have to use it, or that you should be able to reclaim that Focus and put it into something else."

If you have played all you will realize that some nodes are required to be on before using the one after it that it leads to, thus forcing you to turn on one to get the other. For example, in the Madurai tree, if you want void strike, you have to unlock Void Radiance. Void Radiance spends a lot of energy leaving void mode when players do not want to even use it. If you have invested points ranking up Void Radiance, even worse for you if you do not want it because it using more energy and you cannot revert.

Edited February 20, 2018 by ShinTechG

[Maka.Bones]

Ditto. Upvoted. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

7 hours ago, ShinTechG said:

Have you actually played and experienced all focus trees before making that statement?

Are there really still people that think this question means anything?

Yes you have to activate some nodes to get to others, you just don't have to invest in them, when you can just unlock a node for the cheapest costs on the board (often a 5th of your daily cap, which if you're farming to your cap every day, where's the 'investment' to that?). If you're talking about Void Radiance on the way to Void Strike, then there's an interesting balance there, because you have these funny things called Waybounds, and Zenurik's one lets you reclaim that energy extremely fast, meaning your expenditure of energy is not a negative for more than, oh, a second. It's almost like DE built the answers to these issues right into the system, and all you need to do is put in the time.

Besides, you haven't actually addressed the point. Just because you don't want to use that node does not in any way mean that you should, by rule of 'but I don't like it', be able to reclaim the points.

Two months down the line, that ability might be patched to do something better for the energy, or less energy for the same ability. That's something to look into, to ask for from DE. Abusable resets, though? Probably not.

[ShinTechG]

7 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Are there really still people that think this question means anything?

Yes you have to activate some nodes to get to others, you just don't have to invest in them, when you can just unlock a node for the cheapest costs on the board (often a 5th of your daily cap, which if you're farming to your cap every day, where's the 'investment' to that?). If you're talking about Void Radiance on the way to Void Strike, then there's an interesting balance there, because you have these funny things called Waybounds, and Zenurik's one lets you reclaim that energy extremely fast, meaning your expenditure of energy is not a negative for more than, oh, a second. It's almost like DE built the answers to these issues right into the system, and all you need to do is put in the time.

Besides, you haven't actually addressed the point. Just because you don't want to use that node does not in any way mean that you should, by rule of 'but I don't like it', be able to reclaim the points.

Two months down the line, that ability might be patched to do something better for the energy, or less energy for the same ability. That's something to look into, to ask for from DE. Abusable resets, though? Probably not.

I do have the Zenurik passives unbound and I definitely get where you are coming from, but I don't get what you mean by abusable resets. This is just like saying once you put a mod into your Warframe you shouldn't be able to take it out to put something else. How would it be abused when the focus points were earned by the player?

Also, regarding the point, you keep mentioning that you do not have to use the node. Do you realize that the Void Radiance actually is automatically used upon leaving void mode? So please explain to me what you mean by "Just because you don't want to use that node does not in any way mean that you should"

Edited February 21, 2018 by ShinTechG

[Birdframe_Prime]

14 minutes ago, ShinTechG said:

This is just like saying once you put a mod into your Warframe you shouldn't be able to take it out to put something else. How would it be abused when the focus points were earned by the player?

By abusable, I mean that by gaining a certain amount of Focus to gain half of the abilities from a tree that they find more nodes useful on, they could respec to choose different parts to compliment different builds without having to earn enough Focus to unlock all of those nodes and use them normally.

For example, Zenurik having the energy regen, not particularly useful if you're, say, an Oberon using Melee. He would always have Renewal running for Iron renewal, so you could respec to switch that up and gain the Channeling Efficiency to ensure your melee weapon's effectiveness was far better than normal, and then when you wanted to go back to a Caster, just drop the melee efficiency and put it all back into the energy regen.

That's abuse of the system, the ability to negate the grind, even if just by Plat, by being able to feed one earned reward into an un-earned one.

26 minutes ago, ShinTechG said:

So please explain to me what you mean by "Just because you don't want to use that node does not in any way mean that you should"

Simple, I put in the rest of the sentence:

7 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Just because you don't want to use that node does not in any way mean that you should, by rule of 'but I don't like it', be able to reclaim the points.

To break down the sentence, because you seem a little confused by the common Comma:

Just because you don't want to use that node does not mean you should be able to reclaim the points. Just because you don't like the result does not mean the rules should be changed.

[ShinTechG]

I still don't see how that is abuse of the system. Oh well guess that is just your opinion. Understandable

[ShinTechG]

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

To break down the sentence, because you seem a little confused by the common Comma:

 

Oh and although English isn't my first language, I understood what it meant clearly. Thanks for the attempted breakdown though 

[Birdframe_Prime]

39 minutes ago, ShinTechG said:

I still don't see how that is abuse of the system. Oh well guess that is just your opinion. Understandable

Apologies for the heavy-handed response, however, allow me to explain how this is abuse of the system;

Basically, the way that people would be able to use it is to take what are effectively the minimum amount of gains to get the same functionality as somebody who has more, and that would be facilitated by a reset system that's dependant on... what? The thread so far has said that school resets are powerful enough that they'd expect them to be sectioned off behind a price, but there isn't really a price (plat or otherwise) that's high enough right now to prevent veteran players, or rich ones, from just paying it every time.

A player would then have no reason to ever grind the extra Focus (other than pure completionism) and therefore would only get to high enough that they can reset the school and change the nodes around whenever they want a different build.

It may be partially an opinion, but it's just a bad idea to implement a system that would allow players to simply ignore 50% of any grind in the established system.

So...

Looking at this...

If if were me, looking at the methods that DE already support in their game for grinding, I would instead want to introduce a way to lessen the grind overall that functioned on things the player could control, things they could do.

In the same way that Convergence orbs and Eidolon Lenses can lessen the daily grind by allowing a skilled player to... let's say, take a Banshee with Savage Silence and a good Melee weapon, and speed-stealth farm their way through three runs on Adaro to reach the daily cap, why not implement missions that specifically allow the player to earn Focus over the daily cap?

Oh wait... you have Eidolon farming, which lets you convert Brilliant Shards to Focus over the current cap... And you can take a team that can average 5-8 regular Teralyst captures in a night, or 3 runs at the new Gantulyst and Hydrolyst... And also earn Arcanes and Riven fusion parts, and Quills standing for better amps and even more Arcanes...

In that case, why not lower the cost of every individual node so that only a few nodes cost more than five or six days farming to max them out?

Wait... they did that too...

Well, the only other thing they could add would be situational buffs or nerfs to the individual nodes based on player feedback.

Such as 'Void Radiance costs me energy every time I exit Void Mode and I really think it should be optional, DE can you fix it so it's a triggered function, not a passive one?'

You could give that a try, and they may actually listen.

[ShinTechG]

11 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Apologies for the heavy-handed response, however, allow me to explain how this is abuse of the system;

Basically, the way that people would be able to use it is to take what are effectively the minimum amount of gains to get the same functionality as somebody who has more, and that would be facilitated by a reset system that's dependant on... what? The thread so far has said that school resets are powerful enough that they'd expect them to be sectioned off behind a price, but there isn't really a price (plat or otherwise) that's high enough right now to prevent veteran players, or rich ones, from just paying it every time.

A player would then have no reason to ever grind the extra Focus (other than pure completionism) and therefore would only get to high enough that they can reset the school and change the nodes around whenever they want a different build.

It may be partially an opinion, but it's just a bad idea to implement a system that would allow players to simply ignore 50% of any grind in the established system.

So...

Looking at this...

If if were me, looking at the methods that DE already support in their game for grinding, I would instead want to introduce a way to lessen the grind overall that functioned on things the player could control, things they could do.

In the same way that Convergence orbs and Eidolon Lenses can lessen the daily grind by allowing a skilled player to... let's say, take a Banshee with Savage Silence and a good Melee weapon, and speed-stealth farm their way through three runs on Adaro to reach the daily cap, why not implement missions that specifically allow the player to earn Focus over the daily cap?

Oh wait... you have Eidolon farming, which lets you convert Brilliant Shards to Focus over the current cap... And you can take a team that can average 5-8 regular Teralyst captures in a night, or 3 runs at the new Gantulyst and Hydrolyst... And also earn Arcanes and Riven fusion parts, and Quills standing for better amps and even more Arcanes...

In that case, why not lower the cost of every individual node so that only a few nodes cost more than five or six days farming to max them out?

Wait... they did that too...

Well, the only other thing they could add would be situational buffs or nerfs to the individual nodes based on player feedback.

Such as 'Void Radiance costs me energy every time I exit Void Mode and I really think it should be optional, DE can you fix it so it's a triggered function, not a passive one?'

You could give that a try, and they may actually listen.

I agree. To be honest, my post started simply because of the way Void Radiance worked. Figured an overall individual tree reset option would be the way to go. I also see what you mean by just refunding focus and elimanating the grind but being that the points refunded would be for just that individual school, it didn't really seem like it would be too much of abuse to me. If it was a refund to be used in any other school then yeah, that would be bad. 

Anyway, thanks for your input on this. Guess we will see where this post will go, if anywhere

Edited February 21, 2018 by ShinTechG

[Sunnerizo]

I would love this feature because or to deactivate features on the focus tree