So sick of trading chat, why can't we get an auction house?

[(PSN)Semyazza1985]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

So what you are thinking the Fang Prime Blade is worthless and there is no demand on them? I will give you a hint: "Go to that site again exactly the same one you placed and look closely. Do you see something? If not, I will give a another free tip you can sell it for 15 Ducats (or even credits if you like). If you do not know what ducats are used for, then I present you this gentleman Baro Ki'Teer  to the rest you have to guess yourself, I do not want to spoil the fun.

Secondly haven't you seen this on trade chat: "WTB prime trash 5p for 5" 

 

21 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Im not sure if you read my post closely but thanks for aggreeing with me. You esentially said that demand will always exist because you can trade prime parts to baro, so nothing will ever become worthless. And the marginal price is set by ducats value.

You literally catch nothing. I see that you are blinded by platinum and you do not see it.
I will lead you (a short essay on how to make platinum in Warframe - for novices):

Spoiler

Of course, you can sell fang prime blade for one platinum. You can sell twenty blades for 20 platinum. (4 transactions of 5 blades each). This is your supply-demand approach.
Or sell 20 blades in one go at Baro. 20 blades for 15 ducats, each giving 300 ducats, add 150,000 credits and buy, for example Shell Shock.
[Shell Shock] prices start with 20 platinums each. If the sale immediately saves 150,000 credits (but who sells immediately, and even if it is easier to sell 1 [Shell Shock] than 20 fang prime blades). If you wait a moment, you can easily sell for 30, 40, even 50 and more platinum.
Do you see the difference now?
Do you only see platinum and want to hang a price tag on everything. Just to make it easier because you are lazy? In that case, what is the price of my time?

 

[PatternistSlave]

4 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

No that is not even close to most of the items in warframe. I usually sell only prime sets and they literally dissapear the moment I put the same price as the currently lowest seller (no need to undercut it). I sold 3 Hydroid prime sets in just 2 minutes, over 10 people instantly spammed me whispers

Then selling is easy and there's no point wasting dev time on an auction house.  You've discovered how to make your time less valuable all on your own.

[Urabask]

35 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

That is only a shortsighted and incomplete vision. It wouldn't be the case if fang prime dropped only from 3 relics, and all the drops would be rare.

Aside from Aklex Prime only items that will be vaulted can have rare drops.   Galatine Prime is an example of an item where there is a rare drop and the item is still worthless.  It has more to do with the items not being vaulted for long periods of time.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Urabask

[Kaminariss]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

You literally catch nothing. I see that you are blinded by platinum and you do not see it.

You literally cannot comprehend what you are reading. You argued with me using my own argument. Just as if I said something different. Btw everything can be converted to platinum value, time is money.

 

15 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

Then selling is easy and there's no point wasting dev time on an auction house.  You've discovered how to make your time less valuable all on your own.

I have said several times I am not pro auction house. First was on page 2 I believe. I just find economy pseudo arguments so stupid it boils my blood and makes my economy teacher grind his teeth.

 

On 25.02.2018 at 6:07 PM, Kaminariss said:

• Developers would need to spend significant amount of time to develop AH
• AH will have impact on server performance
• In the end you are not gaining much (limited things to buy except rivens)
• Would need to have platinum tax per transaction to be profitable for DE (people will cry: why would i need to pay taxes? :( )

 

[Aggh]

1 hour ago, Kaminariss said:

Current system except for trade limit per day doesn't change a thing.

Intentionally making it harder to trade (especially not having asynchronus trading) changes a lot compared to an AH.  Even warframe.market has caused price drops to happen faster than they used to.  You're denying reality and it's getting a little tiresome.

 

1 hour ago, Kaminariss said:

Only half a truth half assumption. It is true that demand doesn't have room for growth but Selling was also never really hard with current system. Supply will not increase simply because you say so. Supply is also based on demand. If there is no demand, people will not be even selling it because it would be a waste of time.

Yeah a site like warframe.market can pop out of nowhere and have 11k concurrent users because selling stuff in trade chat is sooooo easy and accessible.  Lol nope.  come back to reality please. 

You seem to think that supply exists in a vacuum with demand, but demand is not the only thing that increases supply.  Context is important regardless of how content you seem to be with ignoring it.  Supply on items also increases because of the randomness of the  relic system , if 3/4 relic drops are trash, the supply on an item doesn't just increased because there's demand for it, it's because it just happened to have higher demand than whatever was rolled.  Thus supply on many items has continued to increased regardless of their demand.  And much of that supply is not actually even in the economy because most people don't even take part in it.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Aggh

[Kaminariss]

7 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Yeah a site like warframe.market can pop out of nowhere and have 11k concurrent users because selling stuff in trade chat is sooooo easy and accessible.  Lol nope.  come back to reality please. 

warframe.marked is already going for quite a looong time, domain age says ~ 3 years. So it is already considered as a part of current solution. Why are you even use it as argument?

10 minutes ago, Aggh said:

You're denying reality and it's getting a little tiresome.

You are making your own assumptions and this is what is tiring. You have provided zero evidence to back up your theories so far.

11 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Supply on items also increases because of the randomness of the  relic system , if 3/4 relic drops are trash, the supply on an item doesn't just increased because there's demand for it, it's because it just happened to have higher demand than whatever was rolled.

In other words you are saying supply is dependant on RNG? Oh wow, I don't know what to say so im going to explain how RNG works.

If you roll the dice it is called "RNG". If 6 000 people will roll the dice it is called distribution and assuming all sides has the same chance of appearing:

1000 will roll 1, another 1000 will roll 2, yet another 1000 will roll 3 and so on. You could call it randomness if like there would be like 1000 of active players in warframe. Considering it is more than 50 thousands just on the steam and many more unique accounts it is called "drop chance"

 

[(PSN)Semyazza1985]

25 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Oh wow, I don't know what to say so im going to explain how RNG works.

If you roll the dice it is called "RNG". If 6 000 people will roll the dice it is called distribution and assuming all sides has the same chance of appearing:

1000 will roll 1, another 1000 will roll 2, yet another 1000 will roll 3 and so on. You could call it randomness if like there would be like 1000 of active players in warframe. Considering it is more than 50 thousands just on the steam and many more unique accounts it is called "drop chance"

You are trying compare this:

Axi A1 Relic (Intact)
Akstiletto Prime Barrel	Uncommon (11.00%)
Trinity Prime Systems Blueprint	Uncommon (25.33%)
Fragor Prime Head	Uncommon (25.33%)
Dual Kamas Prime Handle	Uncommon (11.00%)
Braton Prime Stock	Uncommon (25.33%)
Nikana Prime Blueprint	Rare (2.00%)

or this

Axi A1 Relic (Radiant)
Akstiletto Prime Barrel	Uncommon (20.00%)
Trinity Prime Systems Blueprint	Uncommon (16.67%)
Fragor Prime Head	Uncommon (16.67%)
Dual Kamas Prime Handle	Uncommon (20.00%)
Braton Prime Stock	Uncommon (16.67%)
Nikana Prime Blueprint	Uncommon (10.00%)

to a single roll dice ? Do a Probability distribution draw a Probability density function and you see the different then.

P.S. 1000 will roll 1, another 1000 will roll 2, yet another 1000 will roll 3 and so on. Read about A priori probability and Posterior probability

Edited March 1, 2018 by (PS4)Semyazza1985

[Urabask]

18 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

In other words you are saying supply is dependant on RNG? Oh wow, I don't know what to say so im going to explain how RNG works.

If you roll the dice it is called "RNG". If 6 000 people will roll the dice it is called distribution and assuming all sides has the same chance of appearing:

1000 will roll 1, another 1000 will roll 2, yet another 1000 will roll 3 and so on. You could call it randomness if like there would be like 1000 of active players in warframe. Considering it is more than 50 thousands just on the steam and many more unique accounts it is called "drop chance"

All he's saying is that since you cannot choose your drops with 100% certainty the supply of an item can increase independent of demand for it.

 

[Kaminariss]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

to a single roll dice ?

No, a person who I was quoting was saying something like this. I said something similar to what you just now. Unfortunately english is not my first language so I do not know how specific statistics terms are called.

 

3 minutes ago, Urabask said:

All he's saying is that since you cannot choose your drops with 100% certainty the supply of an item can increase independent of demand for it.

That is not correct either, first, you can choose a relic you wanna open, second you have a chance that someone from your group will get something valuable and third there are so many players in warframe that it really doesnt matter what item YOU just got.

Supply and price is mostly related to: How easy is to get some specific relic, how much that item has drop chance and how useful it is. And by any means supply does not depend on randomness.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Kaminariss

[(PSN)Semyazza1985]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

single roll dice

We all get some lost in translation. So just to be cleared single roll dice means means you use one dice to roll it 6000 times, instead of one in total dice roll

13 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

english is not my first language

mine too

[Urabask]

35 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

No, a person who I was quoting was saying something like this. I said something similar to what you just now. Unfortunately english is not my first language so I do not know how specific statistics terms are called.

 

That is not correct either, first, you can choose a relic you wanna open, second you have a chance that someone from your group will get something valuable and third there are so many players in warframe that it really doesnt matter what item YOU just got.

Supply and price is mostly related to: How easy is to get some specific relic, how much that item has drop chance and how useful it is. And by any means supply does not depend on randomness.

And then you run the relic and everyone rolls a Fang Prime blade.  So supply on the fang prime blade increased even though you all know no one wants it. 

[torsoreaper]

Anyone who thinks an AH will lose DE money is crazy.  Yes the efficient market will generally make plat prices on individual items lower; however, most game auction houses charge some kind of tax.  If there was a platinum tax on the buy and sell side, this would create a huge plat sink that DE doesn't currently have.  In addition, even though prices are lower, the increased convenience will encourage people to buy platinum in order to purchase items that were otherwise too much trouble to trade for previously.

[xmegarockx]

with auction house ur prime parts and others stuff will loss value very fast, thats is why we dont have one.

[Kaminariss]

43 minutes ago, Urabask said:

And then you run the relic and everyone rolls a Fang Prime blade.  So supply on the fang prime blade increased even though you all know no one wants it. 

Thats not how supply works. Supply means the number of items that are available for purchase. In your example, only the number of overall fang primes has been increased. To increase supply someone from that group would need to list it on warframe market or try to sell on trade channel. Also if you check here: 

https://warframe.market/items/fang_prime_set/statistics you will see that market volume of fang prime (on warframe.market) is around 15-20 per day. So even if 4 of them would suddenly want to sell it, it wouldn't permanently change the supply unless 4 of them would be selling at least 1 fang prime per day.

20 minutes ago, xmegarockx said:

with auction house ur prime parts and others stuff will loss value very fast, thats is why we dont have one.

With auction house prices will rise to astronomical levels and you won't be able to afford anything. (sarcasm), the same baseless statement not backed up by any evidence. Just your assumption.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Kaminariss

[-RS-Covenant]

Mag really opened a can of worms with this one.

[CaptainZgred]

11 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

With auction house prices will rise to astronomical levels and you won't be able to afford anything. (sarcasm), the same baseless statement not backed up by any evidence. Just your assumption.

Actually he is right, the prices will fall as the amount of work necessary to sell a thing will be reduced to 0. You can already see how cheap people are by the price change of prime parts before and after the release of PoE. Newbies do not and most likely will not value their time and effort put into getting their prime parts .

[Kaminariss]

7 minutes ago, CaptainZgred said:

Actually he is right, the prices will fall as the amount of work necessary to sell a thing will be reduced to 0.

No because the sell tax is here to compensate the amount of time you gain. Same as "tax" for rushing things in foundry.

[Urabask]

24 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Thats not how supply works. Supply means the number of items that are available for purchase. In your example, only the number of overall fang primes has been increased. To increase supply someone from that group would need to list it on warframe market or try to sell on trade channel. Also if you check here: 

https://warframe.market/items/fang_prime_set/statistics you will see that market volume of fang prime (on warframe.market) is around 15-20 per day. So even if 4 of them would suddenly want to sell it, it wouldn't permanently change the supply unless 4 of them would be selling at least 1 fang prime per day.

And in Warframe supply is equal to slightly less than the total number of an item in the game.  Every time someone gets more than 1-2 of an item that item is immediately available for sale.  You can pretend it isn't but that's just because you're regurgitating microeconomics 101.

[Kaminariss]

7 minutes ago, Urabask said:

And in Warframe supply is equal to slightly less than the total number of an item in the game.

I just got trolled all the way, damn, never noticed that until now.

[Urabask]

6 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

I just got trolled all the way, damn, never noticed that until now.

It's OK you can keep pretending that this is the economic model you learned in your freshman year.

[(PSN)Semyazza1985]

1 hour ago, Kaminariss said:

No because the sell tax is here to compensate the amount of time you gain. Same as "tax" for rushing things in foundry.

5 hours ago, Kaminariss said:

I have said several times I am not pro auction house. First was on page 2 I believe. I just find economy pseudo arguments so stupid it boils my blood and makes my economy teacher grind his teeth.

• On 25.02.2018 at 6:07 PM, Kaminariss said:Developers would need to spend significant amount of time to develop AH
• AH will have impact on server performance
• In the end you are not gaining much (limited things to buy except rivens)
• Would need to have platinum tax per transaction to be profitable for DE (people will cry: why would i need to pay taxes? :( )

On 28.02.2018 at 5:23 AM, Kaminariss said:

Thats exactly what would happen if they decide to make AH. Not having platinum tax would be ridiculous.

Nonsense. You would be paying tax when someone will buy item, not before. ex. selling item for 100p would get you 90p. 10p would get you 9p. Please have a little insight how taxing works.

Could you decide You wan't tax or not because I am confussed.

Secondly

Trade Chat ALLOWS you to use AH sites like warfram.market It's your FREE WILL to use it, nobody punish youif you use it. Try to use TC behavior on AH infrastucture - GOOD LUCK !!!!

Thirdly.

Nobody from TC supporters say it loud because we don't need "AH lobby" trying to make theirs wet dreams real.

TC have SOME REAL scammers (not a Buyer who is LUCKY, just because someone gives him extra riven for free (good mood behavior etc.), or they get trade theirs Vauban prime for someone else ash prime because somebody need one) and REAL uninformed players (not a player who pay 200 plat for primsa grakata and is aware that is overpriced, he paid that because he WANT to be MR 24 or 25 - this is that "price tag" you, Kaminariss, are put on shoulder to measured my time and I/we are aware of that) - ohh I just got a digression

Tridly for a real this time:

We are trying to avoid real problem of AH. - "UNDERCUTING/OVERPRICEING" FALSE group of interest is able to easly manipulate price on AH market (If you think otherwise look what is happening on Bitcoin markets lately). TC is immune, why - You have already awnsered:

18 hours ago, Kaminariss said:

Lets assume lowest price for mirage prime is curently 60p

Trade chat: you spam WTS [Mirage Prime Set] 50p then ignore all whispers
Warframe market: set yourself online, place sell offer [Mirage Prime Set] for 50p then ignore all whispers
Auction house: you place your [Mirage Prime Set] for sell for 50p, BAM! item is gone because it was cheaper by 10p than the cheapest offer.

Thats how you imagine magnifying problems?

If you ignore buyers they will go somewhere, who will provide them [Mirage Prime Set] for 60p,55p 50p or 200p and you my friend don't have feedback like in AH because TC end prices of are 4 eyes only (between buyers and seller) - so your spaming is pointless. Making false trades in AH by a group of interest, it's like took a kid a candy and watch how they react.

 

P.S. If you have difficult in English, maybe we should ... Porozmawiać po polsku.

Edited March 2, 2018 by (PS4)Semyazza1985

[Kaminariss]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

You wan't tax or not because I am confussed.

Sale tax is a must, 5-10% for ending price. Postage fee is something to discuss because in the end it should act as market damper (Maybe setting limit of 10 concurrent items would suffice). Otherwise AH wouldn't make sense for DE. That also helps in regulating prices.

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

Trade Chat ALLOWS you to use AH sites like warfram.market It's your FREE WILL to use it, nobody punish youif you use it. Try to use TC behavior on AH infrastucture - GOOD LUCK !!!!

Who said trade chat can allow or disallow anything? Who is taking your free will away? If they make AH, both trade chat and warframe.market could still work the same as usual. Don't really understand the last sentence.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

We are trying to avoid real problem of AH. - "UNDERCUTING/OVERPRICEING" FALSE group of interest is able to easly manipulate price on AH market (If you think otherwise look what is happening on Bitcoin markets lately). TC is immune, why - You have already awnsered:

Its exactly the other way around. Undercutting and overpricing problems exists in trade chat and warframe market. While they should not exist in properly created AH.

 

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

If you ignore buyers they will go somewhere, who will provide them [Mirage Prime Set] for 60p,55p 50p or 200p and you my friend don't have feedback like in AH because TC end prices of are 4 eyes only (between buyers and seller) - so your spaming is pointless. Making false trades in AH by a group of interest, it's like took a kid a candy and watch how they react.

Thats not about ignoring buyers. I do not even have [Mirage Prime Set] to sell, nobody can tell If I have it or not. In fact lets assume I just want to buy it. Other sellers will take a bait and will lower their prices. It works, I got few primes for lower price this way.

Making false transactions on AH would cost you for example 5p per transaction if tax was 10% and you wanted to lower down price of Mirage Prime. Assuming you would be the one to buy it. Also if someone else you know would quickly buy item you were posting, nobody would even see that price. In proper AH no players except seller and buyer could see transaction log.

[(PSN)Semyazza1985]

3 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Thats not about ignoring buyers. I do not even have [Mirage Prime Set] to sell, nobody can tell If I have it or not. In fact lets assume I just want to buy it. Other sellers will take a bait and will lower their prices. It works, I got few primes for lower price this way.

If you belive it that that means one thing you are a scammer that everyone want's to eliminate. If it works because somebody really need a plat and put a lower price - your bussies model is't still working you are lucky. You are making wrong assumptions from feedback.

[Kaminariss]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

scammer that everyone want's to eliminate

I never said I am not guilty but with AH I just wouldn't been able to do it. Thats is the reason why humanity switched from markets in town square to auction websites like ebay. It makes trading more fair. Ripple effect is marginal and because there are thousands of other sellers there is literally no way to control market by few rich people.

If it comes to economy, dedicated AH is superior to trade chat/3rd party website in every possible way. Perhaps you have in mind some ret*rded implementation of AH you saw in other games? Because I am talking about AH similar to WoW. This is one of the best implementation I have ever seen:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Formulas:Auction_House#Fees

Edited March 2, 2018 by Kaminariss

[(PSN)Semyazza1985]

5 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

I never said I am not guilty but with AH I just wouldn't been able to do it. Thats is the reason why humanity switched from markets in town square to auction websites like ebay. It makes trading more fair. Ripple effect is marginal and because there are thousands of other sellers there is literally no way to control market by few rich people.

READ CAREFULLY WHAT YOU JUST POSTED !!!!!

1st you're admited that you are scammer a person who should be banned form all traiding

2nd. If you're a scammer don't assume others are would do the same. There are multiply people doing the fair trades.

3rd. You are literally want to close the "seller" market to the group which possess most assets? You are literally asking for UNDERCUTING/OVERPRICEING.