Will we ever learn why there are gender warframes?

[Toran]

Warframes' designs are artistic expressions.

E.g. if you want to give Spring a corpus, a fat, toothless and drunk-looking man in stained clothes is probably not the first picture in mind.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Toran

[Zyr1987]

Because it's easier to design characters (or what counted as characters initially) that the players could see themselves with/as when they seemed obviously human in a relatable way. Plus fanservice (and Mirage has a nice butt, IMO. Though I am a Mirage fanboy)

Edit: it's a bit like how most of the warframes arr aesthetically pleasing to look at, whereas their foes are... not. It's easier to emphasize with someone who actually looks good (or at least vaguely human) than it is to emphasize with someone who like Vay Hek or Nef Anyo, who fall into the uncanny valley. Hard.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Zyr1987

[PowerofTwo]

1 hour ago, Sziklamester said:

 Like the limbo quest or titania quest. 

 Ye the limbo and Mirage quests really screw up my (the?) cannon the most. Pre-second Dream i thought the warframe were the people lost on the zarriman, exposed to void energy using the warframe suits to chanell their powers, as after void exposure without a warframe they'd be a walking , uncontrollable, nuke. Now we know they're some kinda infested ... thing inside the frame being controlled and presumeably chanelling void energy, because it decays flesh and its resilient (regenerative?) enough to handle it.

 

But the limbo / mirage quests seem to indicate that there were ... people inside them, at one point at least. As in something beyond the brain dead infested flesh as Lotus refers to Mirage as her friend at one point... unless you wana make up some bla bla "happened mid transferance so it counts as double death"... thing

[QueenKharn]

Here's hoping that my sneaking suspicion on the direction they're taking Warframes is not realised. That they aren't transformed, specific people. I am concerned by the Mirage Prime trailer's VO especially in respect to this.

The only way they could do something worse, is if we find out we're actually piloting the now-infested adults from the Zariman Ten Zero.

Edited February 26, 2018 by KokoroWish

[Syndrella]

I liked my headcanon and I personaly thought we are energy beigns or supernatural humans whom wearing fancy armors to fight against our foes.

[MagPrime]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

Between male and female there are like 3 or four and another two coming with Nezha and octavia skins.

And a cod piece is a piece of armor. Not an Identifiable part of anatomy.

And second dream made them forget they were children. For all they knew they were these super human warriors.

Two flaws.

You first claimed the Orokin made the Warframes to be familiar, yes?  Then how does the Tenno forgetting who they are relevant?  The Tenno were fully aware of who and what they were when the Warframes were made. 

Where exactly is it mentioned in the game that they were ever called "super human warriors"?

This is why I want DE provided more and not fan headcanon.  Not only are you being inconsistent but now you're making stuff up.  "Super human warriors" isn't even something DE would write.

Well, three flaws.  A codpiece isn't a piece of armor.  Historically it was designed to provide relief for King Henry and his STD ridden junk. It is, historically, a strictly male item.

Edited February 26, 2018 by MagPrime

[SilentMobius]

4 hours ago, (PS4)dervishbunny said:

Because the origonal frames were surrogate bodies for people and being able to identify with your body probably allows better integration?

This^

Obviously we have nothing concrete on the topic but we do know some things

1. Margulis was using transference to treat the "Tenno" (Children of the Zariman 10-0) before Warframes were a thing at all.
2. Davis released a possibly infested creature in a attempt to prove that the Tenno could transfer into it, this is likely the origin of the idea of Warframes as they are in the current era.
3. The Red Queens refer to our Warframe as an "Infested Puppet" the Infestation identify it as one of them and Sylvana was an infestation biologist before being pulled into the Warframe project, so it's highly likely that Warframes involve some infested material.

So a humanoid form just makes sense from the perspective of the health and wellbeing of the Tenno, something that would continue when transference was repurposed with Warframes as a target.

Maybe the "gender" (actually, more like physical sex signifiers than gender) has something to do with the initial design or the initial "ingredients", I'm sure we'll get a more solid idea after The Sacrifice, I asked similar question of DE Steve at TennoVIP in 2016 and Steve said that the next quest would go into those questions.

 

[SilentMobius]

14 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

 The Tenno were fully aware of who and what they were when the Warframes were made. 

What makes you say this? All the information we have indicates that the Tenno were unaware of their nature throughout their deployment during the Old War. Only with TSD do the Tenno wake up and stop accepting their Warframe "bodies" as their only physical form.

To quote the Lotus:

Quote

The Orokin murdered Margulis - used her work to create 'Transference'. Your mind - projected into a surrogate, strong enough to withstand your power. It felt like waking up, but it was just a lucid - second dream

That dream continued until we were removed from the pod on Lua.

Edited February 26, 2018 by SilentMobius

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, SilentMobius said:

What makes you say this? All the information we have indicates that the Tenno were unaware of their nature throughout their deployment during the Old War. Only with TSD do the Tenno wake up and stop accepting their Warframe "bodies" as their only physical form.

They knew they weren't huge males or females with obvious sex characteristics.  

It's been awhile since I ran new content and the core quests, where is it stated that they don't know this?

[SilentMobius]

5 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

They knew they weren't huge males or females with obvious sex characteristics.  

It's been awhile since I ran new content and the core quests, where is it stated that they don't know this?

I don't think they did at all.

They "woke up"and found themselves in those bodies as the lotus says (I edited my post to contain the quote)

Quote

 

Also the possible replied indicate that the Tenno knew there was somethign wrong but weren't sure what and just acted according to their instruction as War Heroes.

"... we protected the innocent."

Operator: It was a shadow underneath what we did. That sensation of being a victim, of being helpless. I took up the sword to protect those in need.

"... we sought justice."

Operator: Maybe we felt it? Maybe it didn't matter. We had a life! We embraced it. I wanted to punish those who abused their power and now I had a way.

"... we reached for knowledge."

Operator: We sensed that otherness, but we embraced it. I was free as anything! Free to learn, to experience, to mean something.

"... we fought with honor."

Operator: We must have known. I remembered what it was like to be afraid, to be weak. I vowed never to forget that, never to abuse what I had been given. I had a code.

"... we were fearless."

Operator: There was a sense of it, but we set fear aside. I remembered what fear did. How it turned them against us. I vowed never to be controlled by it. I was going to live, or die, with honor.

 

All of that suggests the acceptance of what was presented and the feeling of something wrong without the ability to recall what it was.

And obviously the Tenno don't know at the start of the game, otherwise they wouldn't be surprised at the end of TSD

Edited February 26, 2018 by SilentMobius

[MagPrime]

8 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

I don't think they did at all.

They "woke up"and found themselves in those bodies as the lotus says (I edited my post to contain the quote)

All of that suggests the acceptance of what was presented and the feeling of something wrong without the ability to recall what it was.

And obviously the Tenno don't know at the start of the game, otherwise they wouldn't be surprised at the end of TSD

Ah, I didn't see the edit, Thank you.

Still, this doesn't support the initial claim that the Warframes were made to be familiar to the Tenno.  Since they didn't realize they weren't Warframes due to being put in the pods.  They would have no sense of self or memories to compare their form to for it to be familiar, and from what we've seen of the Orokin, they look nothing like the Warframes either.

So they wouldn't be familiar to the Tenno in any way, there was nothing like them anywhere else in that society. 

[SilentMobius]

25 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Ah, I didn't see the edit, Thank you.

Still, this doesn't support the initial claim that the Warframes were made to be familiar to the Tenno.  Since they didn't realize they weren't Warframes due to being put in the pods.  They would have no sense of self or memories to compare their form to for it to be familiar, and from what we've seen of the Orokin, they look nothing like the Warframes either.

So they wouldn't be familiar to the Tenno in any way, there was nothing like them anywhere else in that society. 

"Familiar" has many aspects.

Firstly there is simple operation, humanoid because the controlling consciousness is humanoid.

Secondly is ambient discomfort. As the quotes above indicate there were nagging doubts, maybe Margulis' research indicated that males should be housed in roughly male-shaped bodies, regardless of accessible memories to minimise transference rejection, we don't know. Certainly there is no an issue with modern Tenno, post-cryo, but this situation is very different we had forgotten the Old War and everythign that happened on top of everythign else.

Next there is the issue of recognising other humans, if all the Warframes were sexless and robots-looking would the dissonance bother them when they see non-sexless normal Orokin-era humans? Remember, the way the Orokin described the Warframe creation process "We build a frame around them" so the consciousness driving a Warframe might expect that whatever the Warframe looks like on the outside is a reflection of the person inside. Perhaps that is part of the "Affinity Building" process where a Tenno works out how to use a Warframe, without that affinity they can only use the most basic of Warframe abilities. Would it be harder for a Tenno to use the powers of... say Rhino... without the knowledge of looking like an angry armoured walking tank? Does feeling the weight of the body help? Do the whimiscal details of the slight Nova warframe make the manipulation on anti-matter easier?

It would not surprise me at all if each Warframe is a combination of specific tech, thought imprints from combat-trained Dax, biology from specific infestation strains and a single, specific, Tenno test-pilot. All the design choices made to maximise the likelihood of a thematic meshing of these components. Which is then followed by mass producing of the Warframe line (in most cases)

Given the meta cognition-related questions surrounding void exposure, void imprints, kuva, continuity and the Orokin spirits present in the void I think that the Warframe meta-physics includes some degree of thought-and-intent-imprinting on physical matter. Which IMHO related to the story of Valkyr as well, which may well factor in here.

Again, we don't know, but yes, the upcoming quest is expected to elaborate.

Edited February 26, 2018 by SilentMobius

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, SilentMobius said:

"Familiar" has many aspects.

Firstly there is simple operation, humanoid because the controlling consciousness is humanoid.

Secondly is ambient discomfort. As the quotes above indicate there were nagging doubts, maybe Margulis' research indicated that males should be housed in roughly male-shaped bodies, regardless of accessible memories to minimise transference rejection, we don't know. Certainly there is no an issue with modern Tenno, post-cryo, but this situation is very different we had forgotten the Old War and everythign that happened on top of everythign else.

Next there is the issue of recognising other humans, if all the Warframes were sexless and robots-looking would the dissonance bother them when they see non-sexless normal Orokin-era humans? Remember, the way the Orokin described the Warframe creation process "We build a frame around them" so the consciousness driving a Warframe might expect that whatever the Warframe looks like on the outside is a reflection of the person inside. Perhaps that is part of the "Affinity Building" process where a Tenno works out how to use a Warframe, without that affinity they can only use the most basic of Warframe abilities. Would it be harder for a Tenno to use the powers of... say Rhino... without the knowledge of looking like an angry armoured walking tank? Does feeling the weight of the body help? Do the whimiscal details of the slight Nova warframe make the manipulation on anti-matter easier?

Given the meta cognition-related questions surrounding void exposure, void imprints, kuva, continuity and the Orokin spirits present in the void I think that the Warframe meta-physics includes some degree of thought-and-intent-imprinting on physical matter. Which IMHO related to the story of Valkyr as well, which may well factor in here.

Again, we don't know, but yes, the upcoming quest is expected to elaborate.

And this sums up why I want more lore in the game, which was my answer to Lows initial comment of "who cares?"

 

[SilentMobius]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

And this sums up why I want more lore in the game, which was my answer to Lows initial comment of "who cares?"

We can agree on that, and as I said, this specific topic is due to be visited soon. (NB I edited the above post with a roll-up supposition while you were replying)

[MagPrime]

.

7 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

We can agree on that, and as I said, this specific topic is due to be visited soon. (NB I edited the above post with a roll-up supposition while you were replying)

I guess I should slow down my response times lol

[(PSN)Lowk721]

11 hours ago, MagPrime said:

You first claimed the Orokin made the Warframes to be familiar, yes?  Then how does the Tenno forgetting who they are relevant?  The Tenno were fully aware of who and what they were when the Warframes were made. 

Yes, familiar to what a human form is like. Aka something they are familiar with and can observe on other humans. Margulis' process was developed to make them forget aspects of thier life. Not literally everything.

11 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Where exactly is it mentioned in the game that they were ever called "super human warriors"?

Thats not something they are literally called. I wasn't even using it as a title. Its a short & simple three word description for what they demonstrate to be. Not just to themselves but to others. It was quicker than writing, "for all they knew they were these humanoids warriors with obvious enhanced capabilities compared to other humanoids". 

11 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Well, three flaws.  A codpiece isn't a piece of armor.  Historically it was designed to provide relief for King Henry and his STD ridden junk. It is, historically, a strictly male item.

... I actually have no responds other than that I wish I could erase some historical facts from my memory.

 

 

Also other than the fact of what margs planned. There's also the whole, this thing about humanoid forms. Ever notice the way thing are anthropomorphised? Like gods with jackal heads. We could build multi-limbed spiderbots to be robot butlers. Yet what do we focus on trying to obtain?

Why does it even need a face or a head? Why only two arms? Why does something thats only purpose to serve need anything resembling human at all?

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by (PS4)Lowk721

[(PSN)Lowk721]

On 2/26/2018 at 6:10 AM, KokoroWish said:

Here's hoping that my sneaking suspicion on the direction they're taking Warframes is not realised. That they aren't transformed, specific people. I am concerned by the Mirage Prime trailer's VO especially in respect to this.

The only way they could do something worse, is if we find out we're actually piloting the now-infested adults from the Zariman Ten Zero.

Going by some of the quotes from War Within and the Rell comic. I had assumed some of the Tenno had killed the adults to protect themselves.

 

• Operator: They were nothing but animals by then. So I hunted.

https://www.warframe.com/chains-of-harrow-comic

Edited February 27, 2018 by (PS4)Lowk721

[Syln]

I'd love to see a warframe "factory" actually :3

 

[(XBOX)tealfigment]

surely when one has a husbando one too needs a waifu, that clear it up for you jr..yea.. k great

[Arniox]

On 2/26/2018 at 7:23 PM, StinkyPygmy said:

Am I gonna have to slap you with a wet goopalla? Cause I will slap you with a wet goopalla.

Nayy