Slide Attack/Maiming Strike/Whip and Polearm range -- an absurd mixture of overpoweredness

[(XBOX)mickeyjuiceman]

20 hours ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

In all debates the onus of evidence is on the one arguing for change. This is the burden of proof.

Posters like the OP are like Trump supporters - no facts will sway them, it's all about the feelz. Logic has no effect at all.

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

39 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Look, I only dismiss things as irrelevant because they kind of are. This thread is running on 22 pages, and the past 10 of these has just been us insulting each other (except @(PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 who somehow managed to remain polite, at least towards me, through it all, so he wins the internet today). 90% of those posts has been about burden of proof and who is acting entitled and who is not, and not even on the subject at hand. I am no more or less a troll than anyone else is. I am perfectly capable of having a civilized discussion, but no one seems interested. As @(PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 can attest, I am also not so petty that I can not apologize if I have offended someone (though I'd expect the same from the rest of you, of course). Believe it or not, I have nothing to gain from insulting anyone.

You had no problem calling me pathetic, more than once, though, so I didn't really feel you were interested in a civilized debate. This is fine as well, I don't take offense and I can do uncivilized as well as civilized. If you feel that I was the one starting with the insults and you merely responded in kind, then I can only say it was not my intention. I am here to disagree with you, but certainly not to troll you. If you do not believe that, there is really nothing more I can say that will persuade you. I'm not going to change my mind on Maiming Strike. Neither are you. But I can easily change my mind about you as a person. I do not need to agree with a person (especially not on something as ultimately pointless as a video game) to be friendly towards them. 

Let us reflect on the actual reality. Here is your second of two posts to me before I even replied to you: 

Quote

Just because you can’t see the problem, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. People are not trying to convince you that there is a problem. No one cares what you think or not, because you have no say in the development of the game. People are trying to convince DE about the problem, and will likely continue to do so.

You can of course continue to cry and  whine about that, as you have done so far, if that makes you happy. Like I said, no one else will really care.

This was in response to me saying to blade_wolf he had not actually argued there was a problem beyond a personal dislike. So you set your tone. Yet for a very long time I  have remained neutral as much as possible in the face of incessant ad hominem jabs and remained on topic with you...while you from the very start of the discussion you yourself initiated dismissed each and everything that was said to you as irrelevant. 

Meanwhile...you: 
 

Quote

You’d be wrong, though. We can all agree that you are the one whining: “oh no how dare they say mean things about maiming strike wah wah wah!”

If someone lacks the basic intelligence to understand that 2+2=4 then its pointless for me to keep telling it.

And keep in mind that this one is an early example. Yet this was consistently your reply to me while I was essentially saying the following:

1). Personal likes and dislikes are not a good enough reason to cry for nerfs
2). If you personally do not want to play with people who use mechanics and tactics you do not like use solo or pre-made group play
3). If you refuse to use available solutions to your problem...then you really do not have a problem that warrants a nerf.
4). Nerfs are draconic and require more effort than a low ball "I don't like". You need to come up with arguments that rise above the level of "I don't like it" to show that it is not just a "you" problem.  

This was...in your words: "whining"....while at no point did you actually engage the arguments themselves. This is not a show of good faith. It is not being a honest debater. 

I also never called you pathetic. I called your post pathetic. And since I already told you this...you know this and it is rather weird you bring it up now...fully aware of what actually transpired. This is that post: 

But you and all tje other anti-nerf people have changed my mind. You people have done nothing but whine and moan and cry since tje very first post. You have given no reasonable arguments as to why maiming strike should not be nerfed, other than “it hurts muh feelings”. Frankly, I was so emberassed being part of that, that you guys managed to convince me, that nerfing maiming strike is for the better.

This post is pathetic...and I really hope I do not have to explain why.

Yet it shows the double standard you have applied throughout this thread and more importantly...in our exchange. Apparently the burden of proof exists only for other people who disagree with you...not you when it becomes inconvenient. 

So far you have not acted in any manner that would lead me to believe or could even be construed as a honest discussion partner. IF you somehow for some reason just lost your composure for an extended period of time and the above doesn't really reflect you as you truly are...I strongly suggest you start by not reacting to people and then immediately dismissing everything they say as irrelevant while insulting them over and over and over again. 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by (PS4)BOSS_TPH76

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Let us reflect on the actual reality. Here is your second of two posts to me before I even replied to you: 
 

This was in response to me saying to blade_wolf he had not actually argued there was a problem beyond a personal dislike. So you set your tone. Yet for a very long time I  have remained neutral as much as possible in the face of incessant ad hominem jabs and remained on topic with you...while you from the very start of the discussion you yourself initiated dismissed each and everything that was said to you as irrelevant. 
 

 

So let me apologize. I am sorry for having started this down the wrong path. I am okay with being called a lot of things, but not a troll, because I am really not here to troll you.

Let me address your points and try to be civil, then (bear in mind, English is not my first language)

8 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

1). Personal likes and dislikes are not a good enough reason to cry for nerfs

This is a matter of opinion. Since these forums are available to use for anyone, anyone who sticks to the rules of the forum can call for a nerf if they feel like it. And anyone can counter their call, of course. This kind of leaves it up to each individual to decide for themselves if they should call for a nerf or not, regardless of their reasons for doing it (as long as they don't violate the rules of the forum, of course)

12 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

2). If you personally do not want to play with people who use mechanics and tactics you do not like use solo or pre-made group play

Again, this is impossible to impose on other people. You can suggest it, of course. I play a lot of solo lately, but not because I don't want to end up in a certain team or with certain player, just because it is sometimes quicker and you don't have to worry about host migration. For ranking up gear or opening relics I often join public games. And I absolutely agree that you have to take what you get in those instances. And I absolutely always have. There is however no way to prevent someone from joining a public game and then start complaining about the composition (outside of Eidolon hunting, I have never seen this happen, though - usually, if someone doesn't like the Limbo player or whatever, they just quit without making a fuss about it).

16 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

3). If you refuse to use available solutions to your problem...then you really do not have a problem that warrants a nerf.

Same as 1. If someone feels something warrants a nerf enough to post about it, they will. Whether someone else feels it is unwarranted or not, aren't likely to stop them, as long as they feel it is warranted.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

4). Nerfs are draconic and require more effort than a low ball "I don't like". You need to come up with arguments that rise above the level of "I don't like it" to show that it is not just a "you" problem.  

Of course nerfs requires more effort. They require planning, implementation, testing, etc. All of which is out of our hands, of course. Calling for a nerf doesn't require much effort at all, though. Suggesting a nerf be made is as simple as writing a forum post about it. So see 1, again. Any person can do it.

All of this is consistently why I have said that DE's opinion are finally what matters. Not to troll you, but because it really is their game, their forums and their call. DE could prevent any call for nerfs by simply making a rule on the forums against it, if they feel that such things are unwarranted. They can also allow them to exist on the forum but simply completely ignore them. Or they can take them into consideration. At the end of the day, it really is their call: they decide what is warranted on their forums, they decide if an argument deserves to be taken into consideration or actually included in their game. This is why anyone calling for a nerf should be trying to convince DE and not other users (and probably post in the feedback section instead of in General Discussion). It's also why anyone against a nerf, should be trying to persuade DE and not the original poster or those agreeing with him/her. We really can argue all day whether a call for nerfing MS is unwarranted or not, but as long as DE allows such calls, they will continue regardless of what you and I end up agreeing on. Of course you have the freedom to voice your own opinion in the hope that someone from DE will read your post and take your opinions into consideration as well. And of course you absolutely should use that freedom, if you feel it is warranted.

[rune_me]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

This post is pathetic...and I really hope I do not have to explain why.

Must ... not ... take ... sneakily edited ... bait!

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

5 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Must ... not ... take ... sneakily edited ... bait!

It wasn't bait. I tried to edit for lay out and discovered I deleted the last part of my initial post. I had to rewrite it. 

[YandereWaifu]

On 3/12/2018 at 8:52 PM, Magicfingers said:

No. You want people to play the game the way you want it to be played.

says the maiming strike user forcing everyone to simply run along behind him with thier thumbs up thier ass since theres nothing to do because some self apointed **** decided to spin 2 win every enemy in sight. you may want to cheese the mission but no one asked you to and many would appreciate it if yall would stop or atleast enjoy it in moderation. things in excess are never good, thus excessive spin2 win isnt either 

[YandereWaifu]

On 3/12/2018 at 8:36 PM, Vindicus8235 said:

Can we please talk about the elephant in the room here?  Frames like Ember get World on Fire nerfed because it basically ruins the game for anyone else trying to play.  That was partially true but only worked up to around level 40 mobs.  Now slide attack on the other hand, ruins games up to at least 150 and beyond.  Sorties are a mind numbing bore-fest with a slide attack spammer as there's really nothing left to do since it's a super fast moving screen wide red crit aoe fest.  Please address this egregiously overpowered combo of things for the health of the game.  At the very least cap melee range to a few meters, since you know, it's melee; increase whip and polearm damage to compensate if necessary.  Thanks for your consideration.

i dont really agree with nerfing the range, i happen to enjoy many personalised builds that use high range especially on my zaw pole arms, nerf maiming effects, i dont use them and dont mind, pulling off combos and stylishly killing enemies is just much more fun however dont kill off what makes these weapons so appealing.

[Irelia_Bot]

On 3/12/2018 at 5:38 PM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

No.

I’ve had enough talking about this. You’re beating a dead horse.

Clearly the maiming whip horse is not dead so it needs to be beaten more.

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

13 minutes ago, rune_me said:

So let me apologize. I am sorry for having started this down the wrong path. I am okay with being called a lot of things, but not a troll, because I am really not here to troll you.

Let me address your points and try to be civil, then (bear in mind, English is not my first language)

No worries. I don't mind insults or emotions...I mind whether or not we can have a fair conversation. So if we can have that it is fine by me. 

Judging from the post you made...we are talking past each other and we are actually talking about two different things. 

 This is a matter of opinion. Since these forums are available to use for anyone, anyone who sticks to the rules of the forum can call for a nerf if they feel like it. And anyone can counter their call, of course. This kind of leaves it up to each individual to decide for themselves if they should call for a nerf or not, regardless of their reasons for doing it (as long as they don't violate the rules of the forum, of course)

Of course they have the option. I agree. That is not what I am saying here.
 
What I am saying is whether their arguments are proportional to the demanded/requested solution and form a reasonable basis for that request. In other words...the fact that somebody does not like something and does not want to encounter is doesn't in itself provide and argument that something is a problem for the game and community in general. 

So...for example...if I don't like vegetables the demand that everybody else stop eating vegetables is disproportional and unreasonable. 

Until somebody brings arguments to the table that rise above the level of "I don't like it" the demand or request for a nerf merely places ones own interests above the interests of the rest of the community. Somebody else may like what you do not like...and neither of these feelings are more important than the other. This doesn't invalidate their feelings or experience...but it also does not validate, in itself, an effort to take something away from people that they do enjoy.  

For something to become proportionate and reasonable...there needs to be an argument that goes further than the subjective likes and dislikes and shows that it is problem that isn't tied to the individual but actually in the interest of the community in general or is in fact an unreasonable burden to endure for the person making the request. 

Again, this is impossible to impose on other people. You can suggest it, of course. I play a lot of solo lately, but not because I don't want to end up in a certain team or with certain player, just because it is sometimes quicker and you don't have to worry about host migration. For ranking up gear or opening relics I often join public games. And I absolutely agree that you have to take what you get in those instances. And I absolutely always have. There is however no way to prevent someone from joining a public game and then start complaining about the composition (outside of Eidolon hunting, I have never seen this happen, though - usually, if someone doesn't like the Limbo player or whatever, they just quit without making a fuss about it).

Of course people will complain. I don't mind people complaining. And they will...incessantly. And there really is no imposition on the person to play solo or to play in pre-made groups. They can either do it or not. It is their choice. I don't even mind people complaining about MS or CO. 

But when a player has these options to avoid issues and refuses to take these option...the validity of their argument that there is a problem that needs to be addressed by the Dev team decreases rapidly. You know...taking in mind what I said in the above reply. Because the problem is already solvable and avoidable by the player themselves. It then becomes a mentality issue which is disproportionate to the proposed solution....unless....the player shows why the problem extends beyond their experience or why the current solutions aren't good enough.  

Naturally a person totally has the option of ignoring all of that....and that is what we call "entitled". 

Same as 1. If someone feels something warrants a nerf enough to post about it, they will. Whether someone else feels it is unwarranted or not, aren't likely to stop them, as long as they feel it is warranted.

Sure. But...I don't subscribe to the idea that just because somebody has feels or can do something...it means they are right, act correctly, act appropriately or are reasonable. In fact...people acting on strong believes can be downright wrong, irresponsible, immoral, unethical and a threat to others. 

Of course nerfs requires more effort. They require planning, implementation, testing, etc. All of which is out of our hands, of course. Calling for a nerf doesn't require much effort at all, though. Suggesting a nerf be made is as simple as writing a forum post about it. So see 1, again. Any person can do it.

Well they indeed do. Though I didn't mean effort to implement.

I mean effort in the sense of arguing for nerfs considering the consequence they have on the game and the community in general. What I meant here...is that when you ask for a nerf you are asking for a very dramatic course of action which has consequences for a lot of people and for the game itself. So arguing for a nerf actually deserves more than a platitude. 

And while you can certainly ask for a nerf for any reason and anytime you like...there are standards the community should have. Because the consequences of everybody demanding nerfs for anything they do not like...has or can have disastrous results. 

All of this is consistently why I have said that DE's opinion are finally what matters. Not to troll you, but because it really is their game, their forums and their call. DE could prevent any call for nerfs by simply making a rule on the forums against it, if they feel that such things are unwarranted. They can also allow them to exist on the forum but simply completely ignore them. Or they can take them into consideration. At the end of the day, it really is their call: they decide what is warranted on their forums, they decide if an argument deserves to be taken into consideration or actually included in their game. This is why anyone calling for a nerf should be trying to convince DE and not other users (and probably post in the feedback section instead of in General Discussion). It's also why anyone against a nerf, should be trying to persuade DE and not the original poster or those agreeing with him/her. We really can argue all day whether a call for nerfing MS is unwarranted or not, but as long as DE allows such calls, they will continue regardless of what you and I end up agreeing on. Of course you have the freedom to voice your own opinion in the hope that someone from DE will read your post and take your opinions into consideration as well. And of course you absolutely should use that freedom, if you feel it is warranted.

Everything in this game happens because DE implements it. This is a fact. And I do not disagree with that statement at all. 

But let us not pretend that DE does not act on feedback. And we have seen more games being ruined by Devs acting on feedback from careless cries from nerfs by a vocal minority who simply run to the forum any time they feel like it to get their way through the means of ban hammer than I can count. And many times Devs simply just nerf to shut people up. Often not even with well implemented changes. (Ember...cough...cough)

Just because people can and are allowed/not prohibited to do something does not make the action of doing it a neutral action...or exempts them from taking responsibility.

So creating a thread in the general discussion forum asking for nerfs should be held to standard by the community at large and posters should be required by the community to actually make a case...and if they do not..they should be judged on that.  



 

 

[LordNero86]

A loooong winding thread...

Let's us just wait for damage 3.0 and melee rebalance. 

If MS damage calc and/or mechanic got changed, then so be it. If it's not then it is what it is. Ignore or adapt to it (like all the changes made to various things before). 

Edited March 29, 2018 by LordNero86
Typo

[AcidicGhost]

18 hours ago, Vindicus8235 said:

Saying that someone lacks understanding in something is not belittling.  There are lots of things I don't understand.  Did I just belittle myself?

I'm dictating nothing and it's not within my power to do so even if I wanted to.  Boundaries are set for a reason.  Just because some people want to drive 150 mph on the freeway doesn't mean they should be able to, and it has nothing to do with my car only being able to go 80 mph.

I didn't say you belittled me. 

I also didn't say you were dictating, but that you wanted to. There is a subtle, but distinct difference. For someone trying to act like he has a greater understanding than others, taking the time to read, and understand what others are saying is critical. 

As to your example, it is absurd. You are comparing a regulation for safety with a ruleset in a game. 

If we ignore that part, we do touch on the real substance of why you want to dictate how other people play, it is because as you say you are an 80mph player in a game that has a functional speed limit of 150 and you don't like getting passed. 

So instead of finding a new car and keeping up you want to cap everyone at your speed. 

[Magicfingers]

9 hours ago, YandereWaifu said:

says the maiming strike user forcing everyone to simply run along behind him with thier thumbs up thier ass since theres nothing to do because some self apointed **** decided to spin 2 win every enemy in sight. you may want to cheese the mission but no one asked you to and many would appreciate it if yall would stop or atleast enjoy it in moderation. things in excess are never good, thus excessive spin2 win isnt either 

umm, i don't use maiming strike and i don't "spin to win" either. what's more, i run with pugs every day and i very rarely see anyone doing the "spin to win" thing...that's why i said the op just wants people to play the game the way he wants them to play it.

[YandereWaifu]

6 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

umm, i don't use maiming strike and i don't "spin to win" either. what's more, i run with pugs every day and i very rarely see anyone doing the "spin to win" thing...that's why i said the op just wants people to play the game the way he wants them to play it.

my point still stand though, no one asked anyone to go clear missions for us with spin 2 win and this can also be applied to press 4 to win abilities, were here to play the game, sitting afk in a corner while someone else plays isnt what im here for. while we are in a sense wanting them to play the way wed like, they are also forcing us to play the way theyd like, ie not playing at all since theres nothing to do with them around.

[KaineKaneChing]

I like to play solo with squishy frames but thanks for the concern.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Il y a 14 heures, Magicfingers a dit :

umm, i don't use maiming strike and i don't "spin to win" either. what's more, i run with pugs every day and i very rarely see anyone doing the "spin to win" thing...that's why i said the op just wants people to play the game the way he wants them to play it.

This slightly falls under the non-argument in my book.
You'll naturally see only a very few selected individual as the combo requires a yearly event mod and a Riven combo, however the existence of the combo and its power are present. Just because you personally don't see something amongst millions of players doesn't mean it's not there to be abused.

to put it into perspective :
I own the combo and it's so powerful I've became disgusted by it, even went as far as to change my Zaw name to "Disappointment"
From basic missions to Fissures and ending with sortie, I'll ALWAYS get 85%+ damage dealt even if I casual slide across the map because of the damage and reach output.

I accidentally brought the weapon on a series of missions the other day and just started using spins out of habits because every red dots on the map were disappearing.
I didn't think much of it until my friend, who was playing in a squad with me, pointed out that I had 93% of damage dealt and that he had 5 % just trying to keep up with me. ( I don't actually remember the kill counts for every player, but from my memory I had all 3 digits whiles my teammates didn't even pass 10 )
The two other random players could barely get a single kill before the extraction loaded, all they could do was follow and reach extraction as fast as they could so that they could leave my group.

From that point on I actually "Tried" to get kills, Arcane Strike and Solo duration Volt just to mess around and see if I could make that number even higher.
I obviously did, but at what cost?
I destroyed any cooperation for that specific mission with a group of random players who probably came to enjoy their maybe favorite game casually, and all they got from it is me try-Harding and completely ruining any semblance of fun or entertainment they could've had with little to no chance at competing.


I'm sure one would argue by saying that all they can do is block me and go on with their day, or that I should stop using it if I don't like it, but that's not how you solve a problem.
Within that example I practically forced them to play fetch while I was enjoying myself, this is why I'm finding hard to believe that op "only wants people to play the game the way he wants". The very existence of that combo and it's use is a direct opposition to that argument.

My apology for the giant text, I thought I'd write maybe one or two lines and I ended up adding an example, silly me.

Edited March 30, 2018 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

3 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

This slightly falls under the non-argument in my book.
 *snip*
My apology for the giant text, I thought I'd write maybe one or two lines and I ended up adding an example, silly me.

Like you said...top tier builds exist beyond MS/CO set ups that can and will, when played right, seriously compete with and even outperform a set-up using MS.  

Yesterday I ran a PUG extermination where I got 90% of the damage in....while running with my Volt/Amprex combo. I am MR 19...the rest of the team were all above MR 10. Tile set was narrow hallways....which helped a lot. Conversely I have also ran in PUG's with an Atterax MS-combo setup where I was at the bottom of the list. Rhino beat everybody with their stomp. The tile set was open and wider spaces. I predominantly play this game with a friend who runs a very optimized Rhino...even when I am using my Atterax MS combo...we still have a healthy competition going on who gets the most kills. And before I even forked over the 200 plat to buy MS...I regularly outperformed the rest of the people in my PUG by a mile as well as having sat there with my thumbs up my....nose because I was outclassed, outgunned and outperformed by people who were not using MS. 

Run with an Ember, Equinox, Banshee, Optimized Rhino's... Lenz users who know what they are doing...Amprex/Volts...or any of the other multitude of warframe's and weapon combo's and you will have a bad time. 

Edit: Ironically....https://forums.warframe.com/topic/939569-queen-is-back-nuker-saryn/

This is of course also highly influenced by the mission type. Most games end with people making less than 20 kills. Simply because we run to the objective as fast as possible...do the thing we need to do as fast as possible....and run to the exit as fast as possible. And in the process we are skipping most of the enemies by running past them. A perfect example of this style was the Phorid assassination where usually the rest of the team was still trying to catch up to the target while one or two were already done killing him and on their way to the exit. It is the perfect description of my first week in warframe where out team spawned in and I was still trying to figure up from down when I got the notification 2/4 players were already at exit. 

The problems you describe are mostly with the nature of PUGs....where casuals and the hard core of all experience levels are lumped together. And optimized builds will always outperform un-optimized builds and the meta will always outperform the non-meta. And just about everybody has a different idea of what is fun. 

So even when MS-combo's are removed...it will be the next thing. OP has described this very clearly. And ultimately the game will be balanced around the weakest players. And that never ends up well for games. 

You can feel sad for people and it is obviously true that some people are aggrieved by the situation. But the fact remains that there are also a lot of people who are very happy a player comes along who can nuke the entire map and gets them their rewards faster. I know that that is the case....because I was one of them and when running such set ups myself I made a whole lot of friends because people actively wanted to run with me because of that. 

PUG's don't play the way you want the game to play...that is the nature of PUG's. You either accept it and learn to live with the fact that you will have bad experiences in PUG's or you need to start playing solo or in pre-made groups of people who play the game like you.  

This is what I did when I no longer felt compelled to have to wait for a bunch of slow pokes or play with Limbo. They play how they want to play. This annoys me. I took responsibility and started to find alternatives. This is not an unreasonable responsibility for me. After all...the fact that I do not like it...does not mean they can't or shouldn't. 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by (PS4)BOSS_TPH76

[LegacyDM]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Like you said...top tier builds exist beyond MS/CO set ups that can and will, when played right, seriously compete with and even outperform a set-up using MS.  

Yesterday I ran a PUG extermination where I got 90% of the damage in....while running with my Volt/Amprex combo. I am MR 19...the rest of the team were all above MR 10. Tile set was narrow hallways....which helped a lot. Conversely I have also ran in PUG's with an Atterax MS-combo setup where I was at the bottom of the list. Rhino beat everybody with their stomp. The tile set was open and wider spaces. I predominantly play this game with a friend who runs a very optimized Rhino...even when I am using my Atterax MS combo...we still have a healthy competition going on who gets the most kills. And before I even forked over the 200 plat to buy MS...I regularly outperformed the rest of the people in my PUG by a mile as well as having sat there with my thumbs up my....nose because I was outclassed, outgunned and outperformed by people who were not using MS. 

Run with an Ember, Equinox, Banshee, Optimized Rhino's... Lenz users who know what they are doing...Amprex/Volts...or any of the other multitude of warframe's and weapon combo's and you will have a bad time. 

Edit: Ironically....https://forums.warframe.com/topic/939569-queen-is-back-nuker-saryn/

This is of course also highly influenced by the mission type. Most games end with people making less than 20 kills. Simply because we run to the objective as fast as possible...do the thing we need to do as fast as possible....and run to the exit as fast as possible. And in the process we are skipping most of the enemies by running past them. A perfect example of this style was the Phorid assassination where usually the rest of the team was still trying to catch up to the target while one or two were already done killing him and on their way to the exit. It is the perfect description of my first week in warframe where out team spawned in and I was still trying to figure up from down when I got the notification 2/4 players were already at exit. 

The problems you describe are mostly with the nature of PUGs....where casuals and the hard core of all experience levels are lumped together. And optimized builds will always outperform un-optimized builds and the meta will always outperform the non-meta. And just about everybody has a different idea of what is fun. 

So even when MS-combo's are removed...it will be the next thing. OP has described this very clearly. And ultimately the game will be balanced around the weakest players. And that never ends up well for games. 

You can feel sad for people and it is obviously true that some people are aggrieved by the situation. But the fact remains that there are also a lot of people who are very happy a player comes along who can nuke the entire map and gets them their rewards faster. I know that that is the case....because I was one of them and when running such set ups myself I made a whole lot of friends because people actively wanted to run with me because of that. 

PUG's don't play the way you want the game to play...that is the nature of PUG's. You either accept it and learn to live with the fact that you will have bad experiences in PUG's or you need to start playing solo or in pre-made groups of people who play the game like you.  

This is what I did when I no longer felt compelled to have to wait for a bunch of slow pokes or play with Limbo. They play how they want to play. This annoys me. I took responsibility and started to find alternatives. This is not an unreasonable responsibility for me. After all...the fact that I do not like it...does not mean they can't or shouldn't. 

 

Case and point. I played a 10 wave defense earlier today in a pug with 2 banshees. I am one of those spin to win melee sliders that the OP claims to despise so much. Out of 10 rounds I had 11 kills. You know why? The 2 banshees nuked everything to death the moment the mobs spawned. Didn't even get a chance. There are a lot of warframes that can nuke an entire board before I can even spin to win around. Hell, even as Nezha, I can impale an entire set of mobs to death and don't even need to s2w. 

I get that he is frustrated with the playstyle but it's not even close to being the most efficient and OP to what some of these warframes are doing and capable of. I also get that different maps have different playstyle. On one map, s2w maybe the most efficient. However, on another, nuking everyone is best. I challenged the OP to try and kill councilor vey-hek with melee s2w. Pretty hard to do when he is flying around like a madman...

 

[SenariousNex]

Spin 2 win is only a problem with whips imo, they need their animations changed to something similar to Hysteria where it is a 2 - part attack.