Do Clan Emblems Seriously Need To Be Monetized?

[LunchBoxKilla]

The price of the Emblems pic, and no refunding if denied is a bit unfair, but for it being free for all clan members is not really important, the Clan Emblems are mean't for cosmetic purposes, it doesn't matter if you have it or not, you will always be part of that clan.

A clan emblem is a mark on yer warframe to show how proud you are to be a member of them.

Saying its cosmetic is silly, I want people to know I am a DOOM SQUAD member and to find other members. Its an identity. if they could add clan tags to our names I wouldn't fuss a bit but Warframe can't have hover text.

 

Clan tags are VERY important to clans. not some honking shiny bit that says "LOL I GOT MONEY TO BLOW"

Edited August 17, 2013 by LunchBoxKilla

[Heroicleopard]

A clan emblem is a mark on yer warframe to show how proud you are to be a member of them.

Saying its cosmetic is silly, I want people to know I am a DOOM SQUAD member and to find other members. Its an identity. if they could add clan tags to our names I wouldn't fuss a bit but Warframe can't have hover text.

 

Clan tags are VERY important to clans. not some honking shiny bit that says "LOL I GOT MONEY TO BLOW"

 

pls leave.

[LunchBoxKilla]

pls leave.

NO U

[Heroicleopard]

NO U

pls

[SoyMalone]

Small business?

 

When you break a million+ customers you're no longer small business.

 

Based on what logic or information? I suggest you take a look at the official definition of a small business and check your facts before coming in here and being obnoxious by using unfounded statements. http://www.sba.gov/content/summary-size-standards-industry 

 

Every person defending DE is like some abused partner defending their significant other and why they beat them in the first place.

 

I'm interested in the fact that you are automatically putting down people that are defending something that you are trying to attack. It is rather desperate tactic, and makes you look ignorant.

 

DE has over a million subs for their game... They are getting money just fine.

 

No. Your use of the word subs seems to imply that you think they have some kind of ongoing revenue stream from the people that play the game. They only get money from people purchasing platinum and founders packs. If you think they are getting money from customers another way then please enlighten the rest of us, because I'd really like to know.

 

So stop knee jerk responses about how DE needs this and DE needs that. 

 

Once again, no. I posted in response to someone else after understanding their posts and formulating my response. I did not start this topic, I simply replied to the posts that have been already made.

 

There is a lot of logic behind why we shouldn't even need to spend any money on clan logos in the first place.

 

What logic? once again you really need to explain yourself. That's exactly saying something should be a certain way 'Just because'.

 

 

"BUT BUT YOU GOTTA PAY THE PEOPLE THAT CHECK IT"

Yeah you do its sure as hell not coming from the 150 play you dropped... Once you buy that plat DE already has your money. And my bet is its some people n the Dev team who are already getting payed to do something else because you know... submitting clan logo is not instant and you gotta wait till the next UPDATE. I'm sure as hell would be very SHUNT ERROR ABORT with Notch if he had the gall to charge for changing skins because THOSE DO GET UPLOADED TO A MASTER SERVER.

 

Yes, they do already have your money by the time you press the button to submit but that is hardly the point. They are very interested in how people spend their Platinum, however, and once again it is their only stream of revenue from this game. What you are saying here has no relevance other than to just make noise, unless you think you have the right to tell them how to run their company?

 

Next time you think someone needs to look over logos and need to be payed... Its prolly some unlucky intern working for them doing it or some dev that has free time to do it, or even some FNG that just started a week ago. They an't gonna go hungry if DE stops charging to have logos

Once again: prove it. You have no way to substantiate any of the assertions made in your post, but seem to be perfectly happy banging on about it regardless. If you can't prove, or even make a reasonable deduction to support your arguments then they hold absolutely no water WHATSOEVER. Please keep this in mind when posting in future

 

Edit: underlined responses for reference and clarity. (issues with applying color within the new way posts are quoted)

Edited August 17, 2013 by SoyMalone

[Arlayn]

 

 

Every person defending DE is like some abused partner defending their significant other and why they beat them in the first place.

 

That was pretty offensive and may offend someone in that situation...

 

On another note theres already TONS of clans who have gone ahead and paid the 150 for the upload, and 30 for the holo badge. Even I did it for my clan...

 

Plenty of clans do it https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/82142-warlords-could-you-please-post-your-emblem-and-maybe-an-ingame-screenshot/

 

Edit: money speaks quite loud. Especially when abundance of customers are paying it. Hard to argue the money pouring in.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Arlayn

[nemarsde]

I'm talking cold, hard figures here.

 

I think uploading the clan emblem must be chargeable, simply to limit the number of submissions. Otherwise DE would have to create a team to check submissions.

 

Think about the logistics here. 2 million players. Each able to create their own clan. If they could each upload their own emblem, and change it at will, free of charge, you could easily have tens of thousands of submissions to check every day.

 

Assume it takes 5 mins on average to access, check, accept each submission. The average North American works 505 mins a day, so that's 101 submissions that worker could check per day if that was their only duty, full-time, 9-5, week in, week out.

 

Since the game is peer-to-peer, GMs can't monitor the clan emblems live. So in short, it's probable that if uploading clan emblems was free, you'd have to wait over 3 months for it to be accepted with 1 full-time submission checker, or 1 month with 3 full-time submission checkers.

 

How are these submission checkers' salaries going to be paid for?

 

You'd be adding directly to the company's largest overhead (salaries) for no gain in revenue, no improvement to the game, and a worse service for clan emblem uploaders.

Edited August 17, 2013 by nemarsde

[Kalenath]

@Op

 

Yes.

[Arlayn]

I think uploading the clan emblem must be chargeable, simply to limit the number of submissions. Otherwise DE would have to create a team to check submissions.

 

Think about the logistics here. 2 million players. Each able to create their own clan. If they could each upload their own emblem, and change it at will, free of charge, you could easily have tens of thousands of submissions to check every day.

 

Assume it takes 5 mins on average to access, check, accept each submission. The average North American works 505 mins a day, so that's 101 submissions that worker could check per day if that was their only duty, full-time, 9-5, week in, week out.

 

Since the game is peer-to-peer, GMs can't monitor the clan emblems live. So in short, it's probable that if uploading clan emblems was free, you'd have to wait over 3 months for it to be accepted with 1 full-time submission checker, or 1 month with 3 full-time submission checkers.

 

How are these submission checkers' salaries going to be paid for?

 

You'd be adding directly to the company's largest overhead (salaries) for no gain in revenue, no improvement to the game, and a worse service for clan emblem uploaders.

Maybe instead of making people pay plat to buy the emblem. They could make players pay plat to make a Clan, AND THEN have it so we can freely make the emblem and submit it over, and over without charge. Also free Emblem badges for Clan since Clan owner paid for the clan already...

[Luminati07]

 

I think uploading the clan emblem must be chargeable, simply to limit the number of submissions. Otherwise DE would have to create a team to check submissions.

 

Think about the logistics here. 2 million players. Each able to create their own clan. If they could each upload their own emblem, and change it at will, free of charge, you could easily have tens of thousands of submissions to check every day.

 

Assume it takes 5 mins on average to access, check, accept each submission. The average North American works 505 mins a day, so that's 101 submissions that worker could check per day if that was their only duty, full-time, 9-5, week in, week out.

 

Since the game is peer-to-peer, GMs can't monitor the clan emblems live. So in short, it's probable that if uploading clan emblems was free, you'd have to wait over 3 months for it to be accepted with 1 full-time submission checker, or 1 month with 3 full-time submission checkers.

 

How are these submission checkers' salaries going to be paid for?

 

You'd be adding directly to the company's largest overhead (salaries) for no gain in revenue, no improvement to the game, and a worse service for clan emblem uploaders.

I seriously doubt there would be tens of thousands of submissions each day. I doubt it's even close.

But, I have no evidence to support that.

 

I don't believe a 5 minute average is fair.

To check a submission for anything inappropriate, or copyrighted, I'd say that'd take about a minute, 2 minutes tops.

 

Like someone stated earlier, I doubt that there's dedicated emblem checkers. The team probably just checks 'em out in their spare time.

But, again, I have no evidence to support that. It just seems the most logical.

[Mak_Gohae]

Small business?

 

When you break a million+ customers you're no longer small business.

 

So a small business is defined by the customers it has and not the resources?

 

Every person defending DE is like some abused partner defending their significant other and why they beat them in the first place.

 

Because you reaaaally need that emblem, right?

 

Enough defending DE guys and think and look at it like this...

 

DE has over a million subs for their game... They are getting money just fine.

 

So stop knee jerk responses about how DE needs this and DE needs that. 

 

What do you mean subs?

Paying costumers?

[Kalenath]

What do you mean subs?

Paying costumers?

 

Don't bother. He doesn't know the difference between F2P and pay to play. Don't confuse him with the facts.

[SoyMalone]

I tend to agree. I've cited and responded to all of his points and have yet to see a reply. It is a shame when we have people like that on the forums who rant on just for the sake of it. I think I've seen about 4 of these topics in as many days so they also don't appear to know how to use the search function. 

 

I think some kind of official response on the issue would be beneficial to prevent any more ranting and irrational threads.

[Glanza]

You don't NEED to set one up, It's purely for cosmetics, can't see the fuss myself it doesn't deter from your clan being a clan.

[nemarsde]

The time it takes to check a submission will largely depend on the tools the checker has.

 

For example, it's unlikely DE have written a bespoke app for streamlined checking of clan emblems. More likely they've tied it into the support ticket system, for example.

 

So to check, they may need to access the ticket, open the image file in the browser, check it, possibly consult, possibly some web research, then accept it and export it to whatever server hosts clan emblems. The export process itself might not even be fully automated.

 

But aye, I imagine it'll be some minutes on average.

 

As for how many submissions they'd get, DE would have to work to a worst case scenario when determining the feasibility of free of charge clam emblem upload. Tens of thousands a day seems extremely unlikely, imo, and my calculation based on 10,000 per day; also seems unlikely.

 

Even at 1000 a day, that'd be a 10 working day waiting time and 1 full-time submission checker.

 

We can guess at "submissions per day". DE could make a better prediction, but it'd still be guesswork. It would be a PR disaster if they got it wrong and had to suspend submissions and reintroduce a charge.

 

I seriously doubt there would be tens of thousands of submissions each day. I doubt it's even close.

But, I have no evidence to support that.

 

I don't believe a 5 minute average is fair.

To check a submission for anything inappropriate, or copyrighted, I'd say that'd take about a minute, 2 minutes tops.

 

Like someone stated earlier, I doubt that there's dedicated emblem checkers. The team probably just checks 'em out in their spare time.

But, again, I have no evidence to support that. It just seems the most logical.

Edited August 17, 2013 by nemarsde

[Love2Camp]

Unlike many other games, making a clan is free. Being a peacock and strut your clan however, is imo fine to monetize. You don't HAVE to have an emblem, it's just cosmetic. That said, I have one ;D

[smithf]

What do you mean subs?

Paying costumers?

it could mean "subscriber". i.e. pay monthly etc either to play in a non f2p game, or enjoy some bonus for a f2p game.

 

But unless there has been secret updates, I don't ever remember warframe having a subscriber system... (not to be confused with founders)

[NeverNever]

Yeah pretty much the gospel of free to play game that the only thing you CAN monetize completely is purely cosmetic stuff.

Firstly, the upload fee is to cover the amount of work needed to manually go through every single submission, make sure it's safe, prepare it and upload it into the next patch.

After that you're just buying the emblem, which btw, is a one time purchase that carrys over to every single warframe and that you keep even if you change clan. Not to mention 30 platnium isn't even 2 pound of value.

 

I think it's fine. I do agree that perhaps allowing people who pay the upload cost more than one chance is a good idea though, both for if they get denied the first time, or the icon they uploaded doesn't look as good as they hoped. Perhaps 3 chances per 150 paid?

[LunchBoxKilla]

How do i figure they are making enough money? Well it seems DE can afford to make Temp Tats, shirts, and all sorts of crap so you fools can foam at the mouth to buy. They sure as hell don't have looms in their building and whipping interns to make textiles then use Chinese children to make them into shirts. 

[Mainabi]

actually DE has more than 100 workers

[Mak_Gohae]

How do i figure they are making enough money? Well it seems DE can afford to make Temp Tats, shirts, and all sorts of crap so you fools can foam at the mouth to buy. They sure as hell don't have looms in their building and whipping interns to make textiles then use Chinese children to make them into shirts. 

 

Making all that stuff is not that expensive.

Pretty sure one of the master founder parts could cover the shirts.

Hek, google it, there are endless "make your own" websites.

[SoyMalone]

How do i figure they are making enough money? Well it seems DE can afford to make Temp Tats, shirts, and all sorts of crap so you fools can foam at the mouth to buy. They sure as hell don't have looms in their building and whipping interns to make textiles then use Chinese children to make them into shirts. 

 

You seem to figure it well enough to make some outlandish and unfounded statements without defending your position at all, so there's that. 

 

 

Your tone makes it seem like you hate/resent people that disagree with you/aren't bothered by the cost of emblems. That indicates to me you have other problems besides that of how much Platinum an optional cosmetic feature costs. Make a reasoned assertion or please refrain from posting as you are bringing nothing but pettiness into an already heated issue.

[3XCAL1BURPRIME]

Guys guys guys (and girls ofc). Keep it civilized. Insulting one another an insinuating about one another will not yield fruitful results in regards to constructive critisism and debate. 

 

Ofcourse they are monetizing on everything they can, it's a business, not a pet project that happens to make money. The op suggested paying solutions that are still an acceptable revenue and are not that much of a hit on the paying customers wallet ~ (and here I would like to state, and feel free to disagree with me, that paying customers are the ones that are actually going to use the Clan emblems. Dedicated paying customers, not a random gamer that happened in the game). 

 

It may be purely cosmetic. So will the scarves that are up and coming. So are the colors. The thing is, people will eventually feel the need to customise, and uniquify their clan as the game progress and then the price will become a real inconveniance. 

 

By the way, I did buy my emblem today, it goes to the opposite shoulder of the even emblems and it is a nice aesthetic addition. Did not know that the Clan founder had to pay upload fees, but there you go.

[birdei]

if you and clan member are serious about the clan then create a paypal account just for the clan emblem and have everyone chip in. Depending on the size of your clan, it could be less than 10 cents per member.

[Bakim0n0]

I have never played a game that required members to purchase something (ingame currency, or real life) to be able to display their clans emblem/insignia.

Generally, the leader uploads an emblem, and it's displayed on everyone.

Actually a whole lot of games require a purchase to display clan emblems, but it's usually an in game currency.

WoW you need a tabard to display guild emblems, tabard costs coin... lots of games are like this.

That being said... Don't like it, don't buy it. I think it's not worth paying for... so I don't.