What I think is wrong with Archwing

[Godin_The_Killer]

1 hour ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I've only played one game in the last two years where I found I loved the flight mechanics and that was Strike Vector Ex...prior to that title I enjoyed playing as the flying Science Class from Fall of Cybertron... it's due to that pop and lock style of hit and run that I found to be quite enjoyable...now Archwing on the other hand is not fun at all.

It's sloppy and it's frustrating, and it feels made that way so no one can cheese POE. I don't know, I'd probably reduce its altitude, but allow it better control so you can skim the ground while having fun skating around the terrain's obstacles...currently as is though, I'd rather use my Operator to teleport all over the place than waste my time with an Archwing.

What I was thinking was looking at the integration side of it. Have 2 modes for skywing, one where you would fly low, and use regular weapons, and then be able to deploy high up and give support with AW weapons, which considering the size imo should be able to be at least comparative to upper MR weapons, if not just better, thus acting as something akin to air support, whilst making things like SAMs more deadly (so instead of them just knocking you out of the sky, make them hit really hard, meaning that a less than tanky build could take 2, maybe 3 before just dying, and thus making those targets a high priority for people on the ground). Even better, make it to where there's bounties where at least one person would have to deploy in AW to complete the objective (say that there's a beacon high up that needs guarding or hacking or something, but there's SAM's everywhere on the ground or something like that), making it something that a group would have to do.

Also, in regards to the plains and other open world content, the idea of AW being charge based is silly imo, and should be changed to a "oh, you have the segment? Okay, it's now a set timer, so you can launch every X minutes". I believe that would help with people actually using Air support charges as well, as I've seen them used exactly one time.

[(PSN)teacup775]

on the planes if the simply made the controls consistent for ps4

 

pull back on the left joy stick in one moment you slow down. in another the after burners fire. looking around causes you to fly in that direction even when the left joystick is left neutral. its not fun.

 

they could go a long way by simply using newtonian mechanics. in space, conservation of momemtum. on the planes, drag and allow people to look around while traveling in their current trajectory,

[NezuHimeSama]

I think Arcwing just needs more content, but because the community responded so harshly to it in the past, it's likely we won't see a lot of that.

[ChaoticEdge]

Anyone wanna vote for rework combat system for the archwing?

[NezuHimeSama]

36 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

Anyone wanna vote for rework combat system for the archwing?

tbqh, I'd vote against it.

[Godin_The_Killer]

4 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

Anyone wanna vote for rework combat system for the archwing?

In my opinion, the entire system doesn't need to be reworked, just a few things added and adjusted.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

18 hours ago, Godin_The_Killer said:

I don't think this will work for the sole reason that people tend to side on using meta items only. Giving people the meta at the start will make it not only not challenging, but it will make it to where people won't likely expand to other wings and weapons.

 

However, I do think that it would be interesting to allow people to have a selection, similar to how the tutorial mission works.

I had to give you a thumbs up on this because I sometimes get a bit idealistic. You're absolutely right, many players may forgo acquiring the rest of the AW arsenal, because they've already gotten the best.

[Timbazorg]

For me i would love to have an option to be in first person.  I hate when you can't see what you are shooting at because your Warframe is in the way.  This is a lot more noticeable in underwater missions.

[ChaoticEdge]

16 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

tbqh, I'd vote against it.

 

12 hours ago, Godin_The_Killer said:

In my opinion, the entire system doesn't need to be reworked, just a few things added and adjusted.

just asking, and neither I was against, but there is a difference with archwing the one in PoE and one in space. one turn one will actually turn and one will not turn angle...its funny think about it.

[NezuHimeSama]

33 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

 

just asking, and neither I was against, but there is a difference with archwing the one in PoE and one in space. one turn one will actually turn and one will not turn angle...its funny think about it.

Both handle perfectly fine imo.

[Koshxs]

What I think is wrong with archwing is that people give up too quick. Maybe because of the corpus tileset which is too closed and you crash against walls too easiliy. But in open space archwing is the most awesome thing ever...! People need to realize this. There's no "fix the controls" or "make it like this or that"... NO. It's fine! The only thing I do agree with is that it should be more entwined with the rest of the game. More missions, more archwing tilesets, more weapons, more challenges. Maybe even an open world where you can transition from warframe to archwingthe way you do it in uranus or in kuva fortress (war within quest at least... cause I haven't been able to find any other place in the kuva fortress where you can do that). I know you can use archwing in the plains but it's not the same. I'm talking about that same transition you do in Uranus, War Within, Jordas, where you get your archwing weapons and powers. It could be a place like a giant space station something like Valerian and the city of a thousand worlds... Idk. I just want more archwing content.

[ChaoticEdge]

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Both handle perfectly fine imo.

are you sure?

[DariusMcSwag]

This might not be a popular opinion, but the "Experimental Controls" for Archwing (6-DOF) is the best way to play Archwing. It feels unique and gives the player more freedom in terms of movement. The big problem is that the maps for Archwing have a set up and down direction, meaning that is easy to feel disoriented when you know where the ceiling should be.

Archwing just needs a LOT more content that ties into the rest of the core gameplay, and maps that take the idea of 6-DOF to heart, rather than reuse old maps that frankly have no diversity or interesting level design. That and a 3D map that isn't confusing as hell to read.

[NezuHimeSama]

Yes. They're simple to control, fast paced, and fun, with tradeoffs for speed vs control that can be mitigated with clever play.

Also, for what it's worth, the closed/narrow corpus tilesets are my favorite part of arcwing. Narrowly and precisely moving through intricate terrain at lightning speed is unlike any other part of Warframe and I would be sad to see it go. If anything, we need more tilesets with a variety of obstacles of varying scale/openness, more weapons and enemy types, and more interesting arcwings with more interesting power sets.

[Godin_The_Killer]

On 2018-05-21 at 7:03 PM, Koshxs said:

What I think is wrong with archwing is that people give up too quick. Maybe because of the corpus tileset which is too closed and you crash against walls too easiliy. But in open space archwing is the most awesome thing ever...! People need to realize this. There's no "fix the controls" or "make it like this or that"... NO. It's fine! The only thing I do agree with is that it should be more entwined with the rest of the game. More missions, more archwing tilesets, more weapons, more challenges. Maybe even an open world where you can transition from warframe to archwingthe way you do it in uranus or in kuva fortress (war within quest at least... cause I haven't been able to find any other place in the kuva fortress where you can do that). I know you can use archwing in the plains but it's not the same. I'm talking about that same transition you do in Uranus, War Within, Jordas, where you get your archwing weapons and powers. It could be a place like a giant space station something like Valerian and the city of a thousand worlds... Idk. I just want more archwing content.

The sheer fact that the vast majority of AW content can be blown through or skipped, what is there to give up on?

[LogainUTAblar]

I stumbled on this thread and have to agree with the OP. I dread Archwing missions. My biggest gripe are the controls, which are horrid no matter how I try to make adjustments (I totally agree with the post that mentions Strike Vector EX. Fantastic example of flight done right). Precise flying just isn't possible for me evening flying on the plains, causing a constant dread when AW missions are necessary to complete a planet. Even getting parts for better AWs is so annoying I just gave up on it. The potential for really great content in space is there but it's painfully obvious that Archwing missions are not an essential part of the game and the implementation wasn't clearly thought out or executed.

I was embarrassed for DE after fighting the Golem in space. One of the most lazy boss battles I ever fought but sadly could have been awesome if simply more work was put into it. Fly back and forth and shoot the engines...fly back and forth again...shoot the engines again. That's it. The AW controls are so bad even that was a practice in frustration. 

[beercritch]

A few simple things would help.  Most importantly there needs to be some sort of reference to the starting plane you are flying in. I hate to say an artificial horizon as we are in space and there is no horizon to reference but the lack of reference makes navigation very confusing once you dont know which way is up, down, left and right on the map. this could be solved by having a map that rotates in 3D as the pilot does, but this might be a tricky change to the game.

 

Secondly there needs to be a large scale display on the map showing loot and nearby bad guys in 3 dimensions. Something that is big enough to clearly see and covers maybe 25m or so. This would make it easier to spy where the bad guys are near you and make it easier to loot that mod you can see is there - its on the map but where is it hiding? I find myself only playing Itzal because cosmic crush removes this second problem, but thats more of a work around that a solution IMHO.

 

Once we had some better feedback of the mission I am sure (controller problems aside) the current flight and combat system is not too bad. Either way we would be able to see much more clearly what needs to be done

Edited May 27, 2018 by beercritch

[Godin_The_Killer]

36 minutes ago, beercritch said:

A few simple things would help.  Most importantly there needs to be some sort of reference to the starting plane you are flying in. I hate to say an artificial horizon as we are in space and there is no horizon to reference but the lack of reference makes navigation very confusing once you dont know which way is up, down, left and right on the map. this could be solved by having a map that rotates in 3D as the pilot does, but this might be a tricky change to the game.

 

Secondly there needs to be a large scale display on the map showing loot and nearby bad guys in 3 dimensions. Something that is big enough to clearly see and covers maybe 25m or so. This would make it easier to spy where the bad guys are near you and make it easier to loot that mod you can see is there - its on the map but where is it hiding? I find myself only playing Itzal because cosmic crush removes this second problem, but thats more of a work around that a solution IMHO.

 

Once we had some better feedback of the mission I am sure (controller problems aside) the current flight and combat system is not too bad. Either way we would be able to see much more clearly what needs to be done

I feel like this wouldn't be an issue if we could easily reorient ourselves. a traditional flight control scheme (meaning that w and s would be tied to acceleration, a and d would be tied to rolling, and q and e would be tied to strafing) be implemented would solve those issues. That still leaves inertial movement.