Don't forget to buff weapon switch time during the melee rework.

[DiabolusUrsus]

With regards to the "animation difficulty" complaints...

The sci-fi setting would easily excuse weapons teleporting/jumping autonomously from holsters to be used.

BAM, just as fast and simple as any FPS; just throw on some nice visual effects and you're good.

Slow swap speed doesn't impose any worthwhile restrictions on players or their abilities; it just discourages swapping.

[Mach25]

On 2018-05-24 at 1:43 AM, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

Please just triple the switch speed of weapons and remove the horrible band-aid mods that don't have a reason to exist.

FTFY.

"Masters of blade and gun" the title goes.

Ninjas are known for quickness of hands and feet, not just jumping and flipping around at high speeds.

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Mach25

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

56 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

With regards to the "animation difficulty" complaints...

The sci-fi setting would easily excuse weapons teleporting/jumping autonomously from holsters to be used.

BAM, just as fast and simple as any FPS; just throw on some nice visual effects and you're good.

Slow swap speed doesn't impose any worthwhile restrictions on players or their abilities; it just discourages swapping.

I would still find that jarring even if they did it the Borderlands particle way because like I said it's a TPS and not a FPS. Different rules for different sub genres of the shooter genre. Wanting to make it like a FPS is like trying to say a Ford 150 which has a 0-60 of about 6 seconds should have the 0-60 speed of a Mclaren P1 which is 2.6 seconds. Yes, they are both cars, but it doesn't mean they go by the same rules. The same applies to the shooter genre with FPS and TPS. The animations need to be there, and teleporting weapons doesn't cut it for me.

[DiabolusUrsus]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

I would still find that jarring even if they did it the Borderlands particle way because like I said it's a TPS and not a FPS. Different rules for different sub genres of the shooter genre. Wanting to make it like a FPS is like trying to say a Ford 150 which has a 0-60 of about 6 seconds should have the 0-60 speed of a Mclaren P1 which is 2.6 seconds. Yes, they are both cars, but it doesn't mean they go by the same rules.

I strongly disagree; a shooter is a shooter regardless of the forced perspective. If you switch Borderlands to a TPS, does the overall game dynamic change? Not really.

The overall pacing is more important to the distinction, and the PVE combat is rather similarly fast-paced.

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

The same applies to the shooter genre with FPS and TPS. The animations need to be there, and teleporting weapons doesn't cut it for me.

If the smoothness of the animations is what bugs you, the weapon swap-speed mods should bother you even more. An obviously-sped-up animation looks 10x worse than a simple one IMO. The same goes for boosted sprint speed.

Your entire point is "it would look bad," but there are ways to make it NOT look bad without requiring tons of work. It doesn't even have to be teleporting weapons.

Let's talk about the mechanical merits of faster swap-speed instead, yeah?

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

4 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I strongly disagree; a shooter is a shooter regardless of the forced perspective. If you switch Borderlands to a TPS, does the overall game dynamic change? Not really.

The overall pacing is more important to the distinction, and the PVE combat is rather similarly fast-paced.

If the smoothness of the animations is what bugs you, the weapon swap-speed mods should bother you even more. An obviously-sped-up animation looks 10x worse than a simple one IMO. The same goes for boosted sprint speed.

Your entire point is "it would look bad," but there are ways to make it NOT look bad without requiring tons of work. It doesn't even have to be teleporting weapons.

Let's talk about the mechanical merits of faster swap-speed instead, yeah?

If they made it look good, I wouldn't have issues with it. I am was just stating teleporting weapons would be jarring.(I also don't use those mods since I am fine with the speed as is looks wise.)

The mechanical merits are moot points to me because looks over ride functionality for video games. No point in playing something if the graphics and animations look like a dog turd. The numbers game of mechanical merits isn't the end all be all when it can turn out like a turd on fire in looks.

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

If they made it look good, I wouldn't have issues with it. I am was just stating teleporting weapons would be jarring.(I also don't use those mods since I am fine with the speed as is looks wise.)

Well, the idea would be to make it look good. 🙂

1 hour ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

The mechanical merits are moot points to me because looks over ride functionality for video games. No point in playing something if the graphics and animations look like a dog turd. The numbers game of mechanical merits isn't the end all be all when it can turn out like a turd on fire in looks.

Ehhhhhh... We'll have to agree to disagree. Visuals are important, but mechanical substance is much more important to me.

I'm not gonna skip out on Terraria just because the graphics are dated in comparison to more modern games, and eye candy can't necessarily salvage crap games like Battlefront 2 (the reboot).

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

7 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Well, the idea would be to make it look good. 🙂

Ehhhhhh... We'll have to agree to disagree. Visuals are important, but mechanical substance is much more important to me.

I'm not gonna skip out on Terraria just because the graphics are dated in comparison to more modern games, and eye candy can't necessarily salvage crap games like Battlefront 2 (the reboot).

Works for me. /shrug I will say this graphics and art style are separate items. I don't mind indie art style aesthetic choices like Terraria and many others because it fits the game. Graphics is more a long the lines of badly made 3d models like some of the new MMOs coming out which look bad visually and animation wise. That is enough of that though before it gets off topic.

[(PSN)Croewe]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

I would still find that jarring even if they did it the Borderlands particle way because like I said it's a TPS and not a FPS. Different rules for different sub genres of the shooter genre. Wanting to make it like a FPS is like trying to say a Ford 150 which has a 0-60 of about 6 seconds should have the 0-60 speed of a Mclaren P1 which is 2.6 seconds. Yes, they are both cars, but it doesn't mean they go by the same rules. The same applies to the shooter genre with FPS and TPS. The animations need to be there, and teleporting weapons doesn't cut it for me.

The animations are there. Put on a couple of swap speed mods and it looks fine currently.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

So shower thought:

Weapon swaping is to slow, can we streamline it a bit more? To many holstering animations, even during quick melee . Also because we can quick melee instantly why can't we switch to our secondary just as quick? 

Edited June 1, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

I've noticed a going trend on live game Boards. Not "just" this one, but most of them.

Person 1. I have an idea that I think will make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
Person 2. Nah game is fine as it is. *unwarranted toxic comments*
Person 1. I've given a reasoned explanation of why I think this would be good... Could you maybe explain why you dislike the idea?
Person 2. I don't need to explain why I'm right, you should just take my word for it that I'm right."

I hope they do allow faster weapon changing... OR maybe have weapons which can be used one handed be used with one handed sidearms similar to how the glaive is, using a default "gun and blade" combat style as opposed to something from the stance... Lets see, long swords, maybe nikanas... Single daggers.... Claws should not have a holster effect... I'm sorry but all you're doing is retracting them. Same with gloves. Come to think of it any hand mounted weapon needs to have the holstering animation cut..... I would say whips.... Buuuut... People are delicate about whips... Maybe if you equip one of the shield weapons holding down the melee button instead of attacking deploys the shield to block....oh. Rapiers.

[Arcira]

Add exilus slots for stuff like Streamlined Form, problem solved. Utility rarely can compete against dps mods.

[(PSN)Croewe]

17 hours ago, Arcira said:

Add exilus slots for stuff like Streamlined Form, problem solved. Utility rarely can compete against dps mods.

There is no reason why this should be a necessary mod. Just bake it into the game.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

19 hours ago, Arcira said:

Add exilus slots for stuff like Streamlined Form, problem solved. Utility rarely can compete against dps mods.

At that point why would you not just make it default? That's actually a more complicated solution to the same issue, and it just adds to the already huge amount of necessary mods

[Arcira]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

There is no reason why this should be a necessary mod. Just bake it into the game.

 

16 hours ago, GeoffFromAccounting said:

At that point why would you not just make it default? That's actually a more complicated solution to the same issue, and it just adds to the already huge amount of necessary mods

The first reason is if they remove more and more rpg elements we can simply remove them all togther. For example why do we need weapon scaling if there is enemy scaling? It´s irrational if you think about it. The reason we have this mechanics is because people like to progress. Although it isn´t really important for a veteran player wheter you have a maxed mod in a exilus slot or a preinstalled version, it does make a difference for new player (looting and upgrading).

Second is variety. It isn´t really a inalinable mechanic for me. I´m doing a lot of content with my melee weapon and sometimes with my primary but I barely use my secondary. The point is you should offer options for different people with different playstyles not just remove choices. But you can not expect player to offer effectiveness for connvenience. That´s why I think more exilus slots are the better solution. Btw in my opinion things like drift mods need to be removed as exilus options because they have a similiar problem.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Arcira

[(PSN)Croewe]

4 hours ago, Arcira said:

 

The first reason is if they remove more and more rpg elements we can simply remove them all togther. For example why do we need weapon scaling if there is enemy scaling? It´s irrational if you think about it. The reason we have this mechanics is because people like to progress. Although it isn´t really important for a veteran player wheter you have a maxed mod in a exilus slot or a preinstalled version, it does make a difference for new player (looting and upgrading).

Second is variety. It isn´t really a inalinable mechanic for me. I´m doing a lot of content with my melee weapon and sometimes with my primary but I barely use my secondary. The point is you should offer options for different people with different playstyles not just remove choices. But you can not expect player to offer effectiveness for connvenience. That´s why I think more exilus slots are the better solution. Btw in my opinion things like drift mods need to be removed as exilus options because they have a similiar problem.

No this has nothing to do with rpg mechanics, it is a matter of inconvenience in a fast paced game like this. Please tell me what shooter game that is as fast as warframe requires you to modify your character for a *reasonable* switch time. ALL switch rate mods are only available at the later game so no, new players will not have these nor would they have open slots for it.

[Arcira]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

No this has nothing to do with rpg mechanics, it is a matter of inconvenience in a fast paced game like this. Please tell me what shooter game that is as fast as warframe requires you to modify your character for a *reasonable* switch time.

The switchrate of weapons is quite sufficient because not everyone starts the game as a veteran player. Please keep in mind the pace of Warframe is increasing over time depending on two factors:

progression - the further you are playing the more and faster enemies you will encounter.

improvement - as player learn about the movement and weapon mechanics they will become faster and more efficient

3 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

ALL switch rate mods are only available at the later game so no, new players will not have these...

I agree draw and holstering speed mods need to be more accessible.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

..nor would they have open slots for it.

Thats why I suggested more Exilus slots. I should have added that these slot need there own modcapacity in order to make them independent from dps mods.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Arcira

[(PSN)Croewe]

32 minutes ago, Arcira said:

The switchrate of weapons is quite sufficient because not everyone starts the game as a veteran player. Please keep in mind the pace of Warframe is increasing over time depending on two factors:

You don't need to be a veteran player. All this does is discourage weapon swapping nothing else.

Quote

progression - the further you are playing the more and faster enemies you will encounter.

And this is why faster swapping is needed. I can't easily take down a nully with my shotgun (the drone hides around the shield when targetted so don't use that as a counter) and it takes 2 damn seconds to switch which is an active detriment to the game.

Quote

improvement - as player learn about the movement and weapon mechanics they will become faster and more efficient

Great... but there is NO skill in speeding up weapon mechanics. I'm fact as a player starts to go faster they won't bother anymore.

Quote

I agree draw and holstering speed mods need to be more accessible.

They need to be #*!%ing removed and the base time increased. How do you not #*!%ing see this? It is NOT about balance. It is purely to improve the game and should not be forced via mods nor will new players have access to exilus slots early on so this is useless for them.

Also don't try to twist my words I do NOT agree that they need to be in the game at all which is the entire #*!%ing point of this thread being made.

Quote

Thats why I suggested more Exilus slots. I should have added that these slot need there own modcapacity in order to make them independent from dps mods.

No this is unnecessary and not the point of the thread.

Edited June 3, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[Arcira]

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

And this is why faster swapping is needed. I can't easily take down a nully with my shotgun (the drone hides around the shield when targetted so don't use that as a counter) and it takes 2 damn seconds to switch which is an active detriment to the game.

Great... but there is NO skill in speeding up weapon mechanics. I'm fact as a player starts to go faster they won't bother anymore.

I think you are overreacting. The game isn´t unplayable because of the switch rate and It´s definitlely below 2 sec (about 1-1.5 sec). Also I don´t really get your reasoning here. Your statement doesn´t respond to the context. However what´s the skill aspect of increasing your dps and movementspeed or any other kind of number changes?

I think you didn´t get the point. Holster speed becomes more valuable over time because the early game is generally slower. It´s not like you are encountering hundreds of Nullifier on your fist copus planet if you want to argue this way. I just want to make clear that investing into something can be quite rewarding in contrast to stagnation.

I´m not claiming that my idea is the only and best solution. For example there was someone who suggested to merge melee and ranged into combos. However not beeing able to influence your stats at all is the wrong direction in my opinion.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

They need to be #*!%ing removed and the base time increased. How do you not #*!%ing see this? It is NOT about balance. It is purely to improve the game and should not be forced via mods nor will new players have access to exilus slots early on so this is useless for them.

Another idea: Instead of determine for everyone give them the tools for there own builds.

Also, maybe you shouldn´t focus on the term "Exilus" that much and try to understand the idea instead. On the other hand I didn´t say "unlockable Exilus" slots.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

No this is unnecessary and not the point of the thread.

That´s my suggestion. How can it be "not the point of the thread"?

Edited June 3, 2018 by Arcira

[AdunSaveMe]

On 2018-05-24 at 3:58 PM, Walkampf said:

I think the switch speed mods are perfectly fine.

They're not. Not only because they're a bandaid, but because they only speed up a fundamentally flawed set of inefficient animations that make up weapon swapping.

When a slow, cover-based, semi-realistic shooter, like The Division for example, has faster weapon swapping than a lightning fast parkour ninja action horde shooter, something is terribly, terribly wrong. Weapon swapping needs work that a mere animation speedup won't fix.