Wanna talk about Trinity + Castanas?

[Klokwerkaos]

11 minutes ago, Senketsu_ said:

Octavia is a "Bard" a jack of all trades, she is meant to fit into many roles. her role is to be able to be many roles. Just like in Dungeons and Dragons and pretty much all other RPG's 

So what you're saying is it's perfectly fine to be everything...  and last I checked Octavia wasn't at "Jack" level in terms of cards, her power level puts her above the rank of Lt. in terms of military command in terms of battlefield potency.  More like "This frame can render almost all content irrelevant"

Again, attempting to twist logic to fit your narative, it's really boring to me.  You seem to have a habit of confusing rhetoric for logic.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[More-L]

1 minute ago, Senketsu_ said:

Octavia is a "Bard" a jack of all trades, she is meant to fit into many roles. her role is to be able to be many roles. Just like in Dungeons and Dragons and pretty much all other RPG's 

You really want to use other RPG's character roles to support your argument? Are you aware that in most games 'supports/healers' have DPS abilities as an option? Are you also aware tanks taunt? I see neither of those in this game as Trinity is the only 'True support' from quite a few peoples viewpoint and taunting only exists with a mod or 2 for melee weapons.

[Klokwerkaos]

4 minutes ago, Hoangviet1996 said:

Well tbh i'm surprised when they said each Warframe has its own roles. 

Indeed... aren't most frames easily able to be modded to be multiple roles?  We should probably nerf every frame to make sure it can only do one specific thing and if anyone every moves outside that box we should make sure to nerf it some more, to the point of being completely unusable as a matter of direct coding, not just lack of viability.  I'm sure that would generate lots of great player experience.  #suicideemoji

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Klokwerkaos]

7 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

$1333 for a mod? You are mad.

 

Or $0, you know, because you can earn plenty of plat every day in game.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Guest]

Ya see:

22 minutes ago, rune_me said:

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

DE screwed the pooch to death and beyond on this.

(Insert Text Here)

I have yet to be this pissed off at the devs and they broke a lot of trust here.

I trusted them to make mistakes yes, but to at least make reasonable ones.  This isn't that, this is straight up BS, and I'm frankly going to have a hard time not trash talking the game and devs rather than actively promoting it.

I'm not sure how they could re earn that trust at this point.

 

Something tells me they'll probably manage, and still sleep at night even, without your trust. 

They are owned by a China based Chicken company and has ties to ChangYou (Warframe China PC) and Perfect World (Warframe China PS4), so this is not very surprising. As a famous Chinese saying goes "he who enters Vermillion (dye) is dyed red, he who enters Black Ink is dyed black"

I don't think I need to say more about "trust" here. DE is not your friend. DE is not your mother. DE is not your maid. It is a business which makes money, and you see, meta shifts tend to generate money. Salty vets who no longer spend on plat ... well they don't really generate income that is keeping their bills paid.

So yeah, DE will probably manage without that trust when there's always more fish in the ocean.

[Hoangviet1996]

6 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Indeed... aren't most frames easily able to be modded to be multiple roles?  We should probably nerf every frame to make sure it can only do one specific thing and if anyone every moves outside that box we should make sure to nerf it some more, to the point of being completely unusable as a matter of direct coding, not just lack of viability.

Yeah that's what i have in mind too. Your roles in game are determined by how you mod your frame and weapon. And that's also how the game has been working since the beginning. I would even go as far to say Nova is a tank frame if that's how i want to mod and can mod her.

[Klokwerkaos]

5 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Ya see:

They are owned by a China based Chicken company and has ties to ChangYou (Warframe China PC) and Perfect World (Warframe China PS4), so this is not very surprising. As a famous Chinese saying goes "he who enters Vermillion (dye) is dyed red, he who enters Black Ink is dyed black"

I don't think I need to say more about "trust" here. DE is not your friend. DE is not your mother. DE is not your maid. It is a business which makes money, and you see, meta shifts tend to generate money. Salty vets who no longer spend on plat ... well they don't really generate income that is keeping their bills paid.

So yeah, DE will probably manage without that trust when there's always more fish in the ocean.

Only for so long.  A great reputation takes a long time to earn.  It takes very little to destroy.  When a reputation is tarnished it affects the bottom dollar.  This is a bad move, financially speaking, by teaching players they should not invest heavily in anything or experiment, ever again.  

There are times where short term profit matters, and times where long term investment matters.  This kind of BS is kid level mistake territory and I'm happy to call it out.

Saying I didn't continue to support them when I didn't have to for progression's sake, and wouldn't have continued to financially is also not a correct assumption.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Klokwerkaos]

37 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Something tells me they'll probably manage, and still sleep at night even, without your trust. 

I'm sure.  But in the mean time they are welcome to be the focus of all of my salt, which I'm sure they expected, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

[rune_me]

Just now, Klokwerkaos said:

Only for so long.  A great reputation takes a long time to earn.  It takes very little to destroy.  When a reputation is tarnished it affects the bottom dollar.  This is a bad move, financially speaking, by teaching players they should not invest heavily in anything or experiment, ever again.

Saying I didn't continue to support them and wouldn't have financially is also not a correct assumption.

But you are just one person, is what I'm trying to say. One persons lost trust does not "tarnish" anyone's reputation. It should be pretty clear from a lot of responses here, that this has in fact solidified a lot of people's trust in DE. In fact, it might have "tarnished" DE's reputation if they had ignored Trinity, since a lot of people wanted something to be done about it.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I'm sure.  But in the mean time they are welcome to be the focus of all of my salt, which I'm sure they expected, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

Which is fine. That's what the forums are for. It's a place where you can speak your opinions about the game.

[Klokwerkaos]

Just now, rune_me said:

But you are just one person, is what I'm trying to say. One persons lost trust does not "tarnish" anyone's reputation. It should be pretty clear from a lot of responses here, that this has in fact solidified a lot of people's trust in DE. In fact, it might have "tarnished" DE's reputation if they had ignored Trinity, since a lot of people wanted something to be done about it.

One person in this thread, not counting all the rest who are silently pissed and dissappointed.

One person that has the power to influence.

One person that has the power to make a stink and raise awareness and fail to usher in new people as I once did, and actively reprimand this disgusting behavior. 

Influence is not something to be discounted lightly.

DE is not the Emperor of a China Dynasty, that means they are far more susceptible to criticism and the influence of others.

[Klokwerkaos]

3 minutes ago, rune_me said:

But you are just one person, is what I'm trying to say. One persons lost trust does not "tarnish" anyone's reputation. It should be pretty clear from a lot of responses here, that this has in fact solidified a lot of people's trust in DE. In fact, it might have "tarnished" DE's reputation if they had ignored Trinity, since a lot of people wanted something to be done about it.

I didn't advocate that they ignore it.

I proposed a bunch of solutions that were all ignored by DE over the last month that would have allowed me to be perhaps less than excited, but still understanding and satisfied, like with the ember nerf.  I wasn't happy, but I got why... this on the other hand is straight up "NO.  F your build, F your investment, and F any player that chooses to invest heavily and experiment with the systems we give you" and that's the root problem.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[rune_me]

Just now, Klokwerkaos said:

One person in this thread, not counting all the rest who are silently pissed and dissappointed.

Same can be said for all the rest who are silent and happy about it.

1 minute ago, Klokwerkaos said:

One person that has the power to influence.

Nah. You can stop. Ten more will just take your place and start influencing. And spread awareness. And bring in new people. That is how this game has grown all these years. You are not the first to be salty and angry about a change. You also won't be the last.

[Klokwerkaos]

12 minutes ago, Hoangviet1996 said:

Yeah that's what i have in mind too. Your roles in game are determined by how you mod your frame and weapon. And that's also how the game has been working since the beginning. I would even go as far to say Nova is a tank frame if that's how i want to mod and can mod her.

And I would say that's the way it SHOULD BE.  Why give us the option of modding however we like to experiment with different things only to teach that any player that invests heavily and experiments within the systems is not only disincentivised, but directly punished for doing so?  Instead it teaches us to copy the only viable build rather than try new things, and that's how this stupid meta crap comes about to begin with.

That is problematic and it creates a massive trust breach and undermines a lot of what the game is at a core level.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Only for so long.  A great reputation takes a long time to earn.  It takes very little to destroy.  When a reputation is tarnished it affects the bottom dollar.

Not every player is as "far sighted" as you are, you know? Impulse buying is pretty common nowadays, given younger gamers with access to their ever richer parent's pockets. Kids don't think. They want instant gratification, and DE can give it you ... then take it away.

Look I am as pissed as you are about the Trinity changes as I used her to farm my Madurai focus and she has my Madurai Eidolon lens in it, but I wasn't silly/shortsighted enough to blow plat on a Castanas Riven. Considering that DE has always listened to the Nerf Warriors over the Salty Vets or players with a modicum of common sense, I knew the day would come. 

DPS Chroma died. Ember died. Banshee died. Trin's day was going to come. Every nerf bat brings me closer to just selling all my rivens and plat, but I'm waiting to see what happens ... and for a new game.

12 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

This is a bad move, financially speaking, by teaching players they should not invest heavily in anything or experiment, ever again.

You should already know this before you started. Any gamer who played free to play before, or is planning to play free to play should know this. I bought quite a bit of plat, but I used income I actually considered "completely ok to lose" (money I would have spent on triple A titles I lost faith in) because I was using it for some "harmless fun". 

Basically, experimenting is ok, but the bottom line is since you already know the practices of free to play, investing heavily in any meta is never a wise move.

12 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Saying I didn't continue to support them and wouldn't have financially is also not a correct assumption.

Supporting them with words isn't going to pay their bills. Words don't feed a family in need, at least not directly.

And given the recent changes, you probably wouldn't support them financially unless things "got better". I mean, I'm in that same boat and disliking all the recent nerfs and changes. So right now we aren't filling up their back pocket.

But if you wanna throw money at the game, sure. I myself sure don't want to spend on changes I don't like.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Guest

[Klokwerkaos]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

Same can be said for all the rest who are silent and happy about it.

Nah. You can stop. Ten more will just take your place and start influencing. And spread awareness. And bring in new people. That is how this game has grown all these years. You are not the first to be salty and angry about a change. You also won't be the last.

I could, but I won't.

You are welcome to not respond unless you have something useful to add.

[seprent]

ok ok ok real talk like realest of talks 

does anyone else feel that we are kinda over reacting or is that just me? like im all for filling out a bingo cards but i feel like i gotta say something to this level absurdness

all they did was turn off self damage going though link abilities if some guy shoots you the ability does it job like are people just really pissed they invested into this nuke trin stuff or was this like a die hard thing people coveted for years that only recently came to light? did i miss a memo somewhere?

cuz it feels like you all are making mountains out of ant hills to me it was just a thing de didn't intend for trinity to do and they just switched it off so whats the big deal seriously someone enlighten me here or this like the whole choma thing where people are just mad the math got corrected and want it broken again like i need some legit context here

Edited June 6, 2018 by seprent
spelling mistakes

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

You are welcome to not respond unless you have something useful to add.

Nah, I'll keep responding. But thanks for the offer.

If you don't like my responses, you are welcome to put me on your ignore list.

Edited June 6, 2018 by rune_me

[Klokwerkaos]

7 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Not every player is as "far sighted" as you are, you know? Impulse buying is pretty common nowadays, given younger gamers with access to their ever richer parent's pockets. Kids don't think. They want instant gratification, and DE can give it you ... then take it away.

Look I am as pissed as you are about the Trinity changes as I used her to farm my Madurai focus and she has my Madurai Eidolon lens in it, but I wasn't silly/shortsighted enough to blow plat on a Castanas Riven. Considering that DE has always listened to the Nerf Warriors over the Salty Vets or players with a modicum of common sense, I knew the day would come. 

DPS Chroma died. Ember died. Banshee died. Trin's day was going to come. Every nerf bat brings me closer to just selling all my rivens and plat, but I'm waiting to see what happens ... and for a new game.

You should already know this before you started. Any gamer who played free to play before, or is planning to play free to play should know this. I bought quite a bit of plat, but I used income I actually considered "completely ok to lose" (money I would have spent on triple A titles I lost faith in) because I was using it for some "harmless fun". 

Basically, experimenting is ok, but the bottom line is since you already know the practices of free to play, investing heavily in any meta is never a wise move.

Supporting them with words isn't going to pay their bills. Words don't feed a family in need, at least not directly.

And given the recent changes, you probably wouldn't support them financially unless things "got better". I mean, I'm in that same boat and disliking all the recent nerfs and changes. So right now we aren't filling up their back pocket.

Do you see the underlying problem?

"Don't invest heavily, don't play the game a lot, don't experiment, don't enjoy it past a certain point, only enjoy the game the way the overlords have prescribed you are allowed to have fun.  Give us your money and get out."  Sounds more like EA than DE.

DE seems to be making that shift from small company that cares about the players to one that is concerned more about proffit, that's right when WoW started to tank, and it's something I would have thought they would have been smart enough to avoid.  Maybe that's the problem.  Maybe I'm the fool for thinking they actually gave 2 sh*ts, and if that's the case, they now have the opportunity to be on the end of my justifiable salt.

Who knows, maybe they'll think it over, or maybe, they will prove for certain through continued nerfs they really just can't be bothered to care.  Either way works fine, but one option has them creating a crap game for casuals that will get abandoned like Destiny 2, and the other option has them hopefully learning from a mistake.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, seprent said:

all they did was turn off self damage going though link abilities if some guy shoots you the ability does it job like are people just really pissed they invested into this nuke trin stuff or was this like a die hard thing people coveted for years that only recently came to light? did i miss a memo somewhere?

Nuke trin was around for 3 years. She was never "corrected", to use DE's term for it.

Now, for something that goes "unfixed" like that for 3 years you'd expect it to be a legit feature in the game.

So people blow plat on Castanas Rivens. Many people who otherwise would NEVER touch Castanas outside of MR increases.

Then DE turns around and says "oh, now your link build is useless! Thank you for buying plat"

People who actually bought the Castanas Rivens now angry they wasted plat on something they will never use.

5 minutes ago, seprent said:

cuz it feels like you all are making mountains out of ant hills to me it was just a thing de didn't intend for trinity to do and they just switched it off so whats the big deal seriously someone enlighten me here or this like the whole choma thing where people are just mad the math got corrected and want it broken again like i need some legit context here

Chroma has the same thing as Trin.

The math was not fixed for ages.

People spent lots of plat on Arcanes, Mods, whatever. Even optimum rivens for the guns.

Math gets corrected.

Now the "optimum rivens" are no longer "optimum rivens" and the Chroma Polarities all have to change. All the forma down the drain.

People get angry.

3 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Do you see the underlying problem?

"Don't invest heavily, don't play the game a lot, don't experiment, don't enjoy it past a certain point, only enjoy the game the way the overlords have prescribed you are allowed to have fun.  Give us your money and get out."  Sounds more like EA than DE.

DE seems to be making that shift from small company that cares about the players to one that is concerned more about proffit, that's right when WoW started to tank, and it's something I would have though they would have been smart enough to avoid.

They are getting bigger after all. Warframe is getting more and more triple A day after day as well. They have to buy Servers, pay the Devs AND feed their Chinese Overlord.

Look at WoW though. It's not dead. It's amazingly alive.

Need I say more? I guess I just gave up. And that I am probably a thousand times more pessimistic than you are. I see the problem, and I gave up hoping for the devs to solve it.

[Klokwerkaos]

3 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

They are getting bigger after all. Warframe is getting more and more triple A day after day as well. They have to buy Servers, pay the Devs AND feed their Chinese Overlord.

Look at WoW though. It's not dead. It's amazingly alive.

Need I say more? I guess I just gave up. And that I am probably a thousand times more pessimistic than you are. I see the problem, and I gave up hoping for the devs to solve it.

So the real question is how long until we see star wars style loot boxes and all their credibly as a gaming company that gives a crap about making a game that rewards a player without forcing them to pay is flushed down the toilet?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Klokwerkaos said:

So the real question is how long until we see star wars style loot boxes and all their credibly as a gaming company that gives a crap about making a game that rewards a player without forcing them to pay is flushed down the toilet?

Won't be seeing lootboxes. People in Belgium (or was it Netherlands? Or something there, I remember) will start suing DE for it.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Guest

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

It flat out disincentives veterans and endgame players from bothering to continue to play by guaranteeing any investment they make that is worthwhile will be rendered obsolete without any concern.

If you think that's OK, then WTF?

Of course it is okay. The fact that the warframes I have invested in, formaed and played inside out suddenly gets ruined, is exactly what keeps me playing and what keeps me interested in the game. It's the only reason I am still playing warframe at all, because it's the only time I feel there is a real challenge in the game: when my build suddenly doesn't work anymore and I have to try something new that I have never tried before.

This behavior is not just okay. It should be heavily encouraged.

[Klokwerkaos]

3 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Won't be seeing lootboxes. People in Belgium (or was it Netherlands? Or something there, I remember) will start suing DE for it.

The point I suppose, was a metaphor that demonstrates a cheap EA style cash grab that completely exploits the gamer, rather than being a company that is concerned about gamer experience.

If not that specific example, then whatever is next in line to push the envelope towards toeing the line of incredulity.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Guest]

Just now, rune_me said:

Of course it is okay. The fact that the warframes I have invested in, formaed and played inside out suddenly gets ruined, is exactly what keeps me playing and what keeps me interested in the game. It's the only reason I am still playing warframe at all, because it's the only time I feel there is a real challenge in the game: when my build suddenly doesn't work anymore and I have to try something new that I have never tried before.

This behavior is not just okay. It should be heavily encouraged.

Not everyone is a fan of Meta Shift balancing, just saying.