Spaloon Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 "Hate is stronger than Duty" I'm going to keep that in mind and use in daily life. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NullSaint Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Sitchrea said: Actually, since you didn't watch the video and have no idea about the circumstances surrounding this, let me ask you for an outside opinion... Should moderators be held accountable for actions taken outside of the game (as in actions taken in-game and the forums), as in content they post on personal blogs, social media, and video-sharing sites? I'm interested in what you have to say. I think it depends. Someone posting that they think Warframe is a bad game and Destiny 2 is waaaaay better, no. Someone posting that they think there is nothing wrong with having sex with a child, yes. I realize these are extremes, but I think that it is not as simple as "all outside of the game posting". It depends on the content. But I also think that this is DE's sand box, and they get to make the rules. As long as they allow people to do so (ie. post in the forums) then they are giving tacit approval for people for people to express opinions on things (such as this). However, it is their sand box, and they have no obligation to discuss internal working with players. Additionally, if mods are in any way considered employees (I don't know much about Canadian law) then they might not be legally allowed to discuss anything that happens to them. If someone is posting videos of themselves abusing players, then that should be looked at. And I'm sure DE will do so. But I know that not everything on YouTube (or any other site) is necessarily what it claims to be, and I know that DE has access to information the rest of us don't. So if they look at it and decide that there is nothing they wish to act on, then there isn't much a player can do other than quit. Yes, you can complain (and there's nothing wrong with that) but ultimately all that matters is what DE decides. While things like boycotts, protests, and petitions can get a company's attention, I do not believe (personally) that this issue is wide-spread enough or dire enough to warrant such an action, nor do I think it will get the groundswell of support that some might expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, NullSaint said: I think it depends. Someone posting that they think Warframe is a bad game and Destiny 2 is waaaaay better, no. Someone posting that they think there is nothing wrong with having sex with a child, yes. I realize these are extremes, but I think that it is not as simple as "all outside of the game posting". It depends on the content. But I also think that this is DE's sand box, and they get to make the rules. As long as they allow people to do so (ie. post in the forums) then they are giving tacit approval for people for people to express opinions on things (such as this). However, it is their sand box, and they have no obligation to discuss internal working with players. Additionally, if mods are in any way considered employees (I don't know much about Canadian law) then they might not be legally allowed to discuss anything that happens to them. If someone is posting videos of themselves abusing players, then that should be looked at. And I'm sure DE will do so. But I know that not everything on YouTube (or any other site) is necessarily what it claims to be, and I know that DE has access to information the rest of us don't. So if they look at it and decide that there is nothing they wish to act on, then there isn't much a player can do other than quit. Yes, you can complain (and there's nothing wrong with that) but ultimately all that matters is what DE decides. While things like boycotts, protests, and petitions can get a company's attention, I do not believe (personally) that this issue is wide-spread enough or dire enough to warrant such an action, nor do I think it will get the groundswell of support that some might expect. While I agree this is DE's playground, they do have rules in place with the ToS/CoC. And the issue here is on multiple occasions, corroborated by screenshots and multiple first-hand accounts and forum threads, several Chat Moderators have acted against the ToS/CoC. Even so far as simply calling other players Idiots and PoS'. That alone is unprofessional. However this is only one instance of many different cases of abuse, and the problem is nothing has been said about it. The chat filter auto-banning people is just a symptom of the larger issue, and it's a larger issue that DE isn't addressing beyond a Bungie-style, "we're listening." And we all know how that's been working out for Bungie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Equinox? Well, that's new. It's DE's chat and their bot. They get to decide what is considered offensive in their chat, not you. Also, no one here can help you. We are just players. We can't change the bot and we can't unban you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) Yes, this has been a major source of controversy over the last little while. We have a thread open for constructive criticism, if you want to chime in there. Edit: Here's the link: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/962202-this-is-a-serious-problem/ Edited May 31, 2018 by Sitchrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crucafix Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Lord-Taco-the-Great said: Ah, I see. Also, I beg of you to try to remain calm from now on. I feel like the only way things will change, is if we play it safe and try to not get this thread locked. I do understand your frustration from not receiving a message as to why you were banned, though. Exactly, pardon for the outburst then, I don't really intend to be toxic and all. I'm just frustrated because being banned from chat really I would totally understand if I were to get banned with a notification and the fact that I've got 1 week ban for using a filtered word in a chat is just outrageous and is impairing my experience in playing the game, because I trade a lot and I usually helped a lot of newbie player who seek help in region/recruitment chat. Being robbed of that experience is really frustrating because to me that's where half of the fun in the game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Crucafix said: Exactly, pardon for the outburst then, I don't really intend to be toxic and all. I'm just frustrated because being banned from chat really I would totally understand if I were to get banned with a notification and the fact that I've got 1 week ban for using a filtered word in a chat is just outrageous and is impairing my experience in playing the game, because I trade a lot and I usually helped a lot of newbie player who seek help in region/recruitment chat. Being robbed of that experience is really frustrating because to me that's where half of the fun in the game is. ^A very good point^ Can we please ask why there is an auto-ban with the filter? Why not just filter the word and be done with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaloon Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Sitchrea said: ^A very good point^ Can we please ask why there is an auto-ban with the filter? Why not just filter the word and be done with it? Have you even watched the video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Crucafix said: Chat filter would only mute me for several hours top, right? I explicitly get notification that I was banned from ingame chat for a week and I think that is chat moderator's doing. I think this is why my thread got merged here. Nope. I don't understand why it is a problem as that was only a friendly banter. And I did not address that to a person, but to a fictional character that doesn't even existed. Just because it's referencing a fictional character doesn't make it any less of an offensive term. Hence the autoban. If you didn't know that, then I hope that you do now. You intentionally used the term in a derogatory manner as a joke or a test. You got banned for it. As for if the other person got banned or not, you don't know that they didn't unless you know them personally or communicate with them in another manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Spaloon said: Have you even watched the video? Alas, my own words against me! Yes, I've watched the video. lol I know why it's there, I'm drawing light on how it's nonsensical to auto-ban people for text on a screen. Which, of course, is only a symptom of the larger cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: Just because it's referencing a fictional character doesn't make it any less of an offensive term. Hence the autoban. If you didn't know that, then I hope that you do now. You intentionally used the term in a derogatory manner as a joke or a test. You got banned for it. As for if the other person got banned or not, you don't know that they didn't unless you know them personally or communicate with them in another manner. That's some highly draconian thinking to punish someone for text on a screen. But that's not what this thread is about. This is only a symptom of the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cibyllae Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: as a joke So jokes are banable offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Taco-the-Great Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sitchrea said: ^A very good point^ Can we please ask why there is an auto-ban with the filter? Why not just filter the word and be done with it? I feel that moderators that ban/kick/suspend should also be required to fill out a reason, and possibly a message on the end. An example. Your region chat privileges have been suspended for: 1 week. Reason: X. Moderator note: Please do not use X, it is offensive for this and that reason, and should not be posted in region. Edit: Also, can we get this back on topic? This is about mods not the filter. Edited May 31, 2018 by Lord-Taco-the-Great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crucafix Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: Just because it's referencing a fictional character doesn't make it any less of an offensive term. Hence the autoban. If you didn't know that, then I hope that you do now. You intentionally used the term in a derogatory manner as a joke or a test. You got banned for it. As for if the other person got banned or not, you don't know that they didn't unless you know them personally or communicate with them in another manner. Alright, I get it if I get banned for several hours from chat by saying that; no big deal. I'd shrug it off and move on, but one week? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said: I feel that moderators that ban/kick/suspend should also be required to fill out a reason, and possibly a message on the end. An example. Your region chat privileges have been suspended for: 1 week. Reason: X. Moderator note: Please do not use X, it is offensive for this and that reason, and should not be posted in region. Agreed-ish. I still think it's dumb to ban people, but at least give them a reason why if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Cibyllae said: So jokes are banable offense? Some jokes are. Obviously, since people are getting banned for making them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, rune_me said: Some jokes are. Obviously, since people are getting banned for making them. Isn't it sorta haughty to be unable to laugh at something obviously meant as a jest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crucafix Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said: I feel that moderators that ban/kick/suspend should also be required to fill out a reason, and possibly a message on the end. An example. Your region chat privileges have been suspended for: 1 week. Reason: X. Moderator note: Please do not use X, it is offensive for this and that reason, and should not be posted in region. 1 minute ago, Sitchrea said: Agreed-ish. I still think it's dumb to ban people, but at least give them a reason why if you do. Seconded. 1 minute ago, rune_me said: Some jokes are. Obviously, since people are getting banned for making them. 1 week ban is excessive though. Feels like I'm living in some real-life Orwellian nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cibyllae Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, rune_me said: Some jokes are. Obviously, since people are getting banned for making them. Okay, so obviously hateful words, joke or otherwise, are all banable offenses then right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Sitchrea said: Isn't it sorta haughty to be unable to laugh at something obviously meant as a jest? Just because I tell a joke doesn't mean other people find it funny or wants to laugh at it. Hell, most people probably would appreciate it if I got banned every time I tried to tell a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Crucafix said: 1 week ban is excessive though. Feels like I'm living in some real-life Orwellian nightmare. Lol. You got banned from chat. In a videogame. I don't think you know what "Orwellian" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, rune_me said: Just because I tell a joke doesn't mean other people find it funny or wants to laugh at it. Hell, most people probably would appreciate it if I got banned every time I tried to tell a joke. But is taking away someone's right to speak really the best way to influence them not to say that again? Or is it just going to make them resistant to your point of view? We can see the answer all over the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Cibyllae said: Okay, so obviously hateful words, joke or otherwise, are all banable offenses then right? No. Obviously not. I can tell lots of jokes in chat without getting banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, rune_me said: Lol. You got banned from chat. In a videogame. I don't think you know what "Orwellian" means. He got his right to speak taken away by telling a joke... Sounds like 1984 to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sitchrea said: That's some highly draconian thinking to punish someone for text on a screen. But that's not what this thread is about. This is only a symptom of the cause. 2 minutes ago, Cibyllae said: So jokes are banable offense? 3 minutes ago, Crucafix said: Alright, I get it if I get banned for several hours from chat by saying that; no big deal. I'd shrug it off and move on, but one week? Really? If the penalties are harsh, then you're less likely to repeat them. Simple and straight to the point with fewer chances of repeats. This is not to say that it couldn't be tweaked a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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