Trinity Needs a Re-Work

[sixmille]

Trinity is still the best support warframe, so no. There's nothing wrong with this one. However, after having this thread, the conclusion is that your build is awful and that you don't really understand how abilities work. If you've got questions on that matter I'll do my best to answer.

[OptimumBow0]

11 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

since before her bless nerf and the nerf on its map wide range. if they changed it to something else that alteast feels better than it does now ill be all for it. there is only overlap because of not having a temp HP mechanic sadly. not having a temp hp is also nightquinox problem with mend. alot of it just gets wasted.

I agree with this. This is good.

10 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

Lets look at it this way: 

We used to have full invulnerability, but that went by the wayside since it was viewed as...lets call it too easy mode. As long as Trin kept Blessing rolling, you could throw any thought to tactical gameplay out the window since, well, you're invulnerable. 

So DE ditches invul and we get 90%DR. But it's the same thing. Just now you take some damage. Slight damage that Trin is going to touch up every 24 sec or so. And that's all she does. She doesn't need Link. You just spammed Blessing as your timer came up since it was the only thing of significance and if you built for extreme duration (and a lot did), Link became an also-ran since it had no range. Some of us did layer Link and Blessing back then (for something like 99.4% DR) which meant the next change didn't affect us much...

So DE makes it 50% with some strength scaling. Now Link matters (to Trin anyway) more. So now you actually have to balance how you set Trin up. You can do the EV thing with minimal duration, but it's all you do (sound familiar?). Or you can build around layering defenses and make yourself both an anchor for the team, a buffer for the team, and a healer for the team. There is some degree of choice here. Not much, but some, which is more than the last two iterations. 

I do admit I hadn't previously thought of Link being somewhat useless with the Blessing 2.0. I don't want her to be more like other frames, though, and I guess I came across that way in the post. However, mechanically, I miss the risk-reward system because it was exceedingly more engaging than the system in place now. It is consistent, but it is too mindless for my taste. I can't be persuaded to see the benefits of max-duration over min-duration, because duration is about making the effects of your ability last longer. When the effect was inconsistent, that mattered more. Now, not really. Especially when you get to higher levels and EV churns out energy more slowly due to higher duration and TTK, and therefore Blessing and Link slowly become harder to keep up (in theory).

[OptimumBow0]

(Page lagged and posted twice)

3 hours ago, sixmille said:

Trinity is still the best support warframe, so no. There's nothing wrong with this one. However, after having this thread, the conclusion is that your build is awful and that you don't really understand how abilities work. If you've got questions on that matter I'll do my best to answer.

(I appreciate your condescension, but, unfortunately, I do not require your services. Thank you, and good day)

Edited June 25, 2018 by OptimumBow0

[Sloan441]

11 minutes ago, OptimumBow0 said:

 It is consistent, but it is too mindless for my taste. I can't be persuaded to see the benefits of max-duration over min-duration, because duration is about making the effects of your ability last longer. 

I wouldn't call it mindless, but it is repetitive and it is vital to keep it up when the going gets tough. At lower levels, you can just keep Link up or just build shields/health and touch yourself up until the enemy level gets to be a concern. 

You don't really build for max duration; you build for adequate duration. It'll depend how assiduous you are on refreshing Link and Blessing buffs. It is kinda work, but with a high duration build you're looking at something like 21 seconds on Blessing and 24 seconds on Link (can't remember precisely) and it's not too hard to keep them both up and rolling, but it will keep you busy--and you have to keep energy up as well. 

You still have some choice about how you configure Trin, but those choices will be more about efficiency, base health, and and whether or not to use QT and Abating Link. You potentially will have several builds for different scenarios--and we're not even addressing pure EV builds.

17 minutes ago, OptimumBow0 said:

...higher levels and EV churns out energy more slowly due to higher duration and TTK, and therefore Blessing and Link slowly become harder to keep up (in theory).

 What you'll find is a rhythm to using EV on a Link/Blessing build. You'll typically just be applying EV to every third or fourth enemy to keep your energy topped up. When enemy levels really get ugly, you have the Abating Link build to fall back on, at least for grineer.  You also might decide to layer energy recovery and use Zenurik, ES, or even Rage to help offset energy expenditures.

Again, more choice and more builds, but you're still doing basically the same thing: Trin things. That's how it should be. 

[sixmille]

Il y a 2 heures, OptimumBow0 a dit :

(Page lagged and posted twice)

(I appreciate your condescension, but, unfortunately, I do not require your services. Thank you, and good day)

Fine, but then please refrain from making suggestions. You've talked about your build earlier. Saying it is awful isn't condescension, it's a fact. The problem is between the keyboard and the chair, not in the warframe. You're the only one having serious grievances about this one, you need to realise this.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

She sure does.  And the devs know this and will rework her.  The question really is when.

I love playing support.  I hate playing as trinity because of what she's relegated to.

Hopefully the devs find a way to keep her relatively at the same power she has now.  But she's also more interactive and less "spam these abilities as often as possible."

[OptimumBow0]

7 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

Again, more choice and more builds, but you're still doing basically the same thing: Trin things. That's how it should be. 

To be more specific, my issue is not with the variety of mods I can put on Trinity to get different results. It is that you don't have to sacrifice the effectiveness of one of her abilities for the sake of another, you can simply have it all. I think that sacrificial philosophy applied to most Warframes back before I stopped playing, and I seems it still does. I like the "tweaking" to be had on any warframe, that is definitely fun (especially with all the mods I've missed), but Trinity doesn't so much have obvious drawbacks anymore for specialization builds. Would you agree with that? Would you also say there was a point after U9.8 when there were drawbacks to consider for specialization? Or nah?

Also, you mentioned that the process of playing Trinity is repetitive. If the devs were able to make her kit non-repetitive or more engaging, yet still consistent, would you be on board?

I mean, as an example of transitioning from button presses to engagement, we have Excalibur. Specifically, Radial Javelin -> Exalted Blade. I'm probably breaking a law using Excal as an analogy for Trinity changes, and I would like to say I don't want Trinity to mechanically be anything like Excal. However, the change was pretty exhilarating. If they could bring any sort of excitement back to Trin, that would make me happy. Agreed or eh? 

5 hours ago, sixmille said:

You've talked about your build earlier.

You might find I never brought up my build, this is a discussion on Trin's fundamental kit and its general behavior with specialization builds has sensibly been brought to the conversation.

But alright, you can have my forum permit. It's 4 years out of date anyway.

4 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

She sure does.  And the devs know this and will rework her.  The question really is when.

I love playing support.  I hate playing as trinity because of what she's relegated to.

Hopefully the devs find a way to keep her relatively at the same power she has now.  But she's also more interactive and less "spam these abilities as often as possible."

Define "relegated to", in your experience so far. 

I hope so as well, and I think it can be done.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

Bro. Trinity is fine. I main her for onslaught, and let me tell you there isnt a Nekros out there doing my job. It is MY efforts in using EV and Blessing that allows my teammates to continuously use their abilities and keep up their health/shields. Perhaps, if DE wanted to remove the mechanic of self-damaging to damage other enemies through link, that would be reasonable and acceptable. But other than that, Trinity provides support like no other, and doesn't need a change. 

[(PSN)Warframe_Elite_1]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Young Boy HT said:

Bro. Trinity is fine. I main her for onslaught, and let me tell you there isnt a Nekros out there doing my job. It is MY efforts in using EV and Blessing that allows my teammates to continuously use their abilities and keep up their health/shields. Perhaps, if DE wanted to remove the mechanic of self-damaging to damage other enemies through link, that would be reasonable and acceptable. But other than that, Trinity provides support like no other, and doesn't need a change. 

self damge was nerf  in pc this change will be on consol next update ^^

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

20 hours ago, OptimumBow0 said:

To be more specific, my issue is not with the variety of mods I can put on Trinity to get different results. It is that you don't have to sacrifice the effectiveness of one of her abilities for the sake of another, you can simply have it all. I think that sacrificial philosophy applied to most Warframes back before I stopped playing, and I seems it still does. I like the "tweaking" to be had on any warframe, that is definitely fun (especially with all the mods I've missed), but Trinity doesn't so much have obvious drawbacks anymore for specialization builds. Would you agree with that? Would you also say there was a point after U9.8 when there were drawbacks to consider for specialization? Or nah?

Also, you mentioned that the process of playing Trinity is repetitive. If the devs were able to make her kit non-repetitive or more engaging, yet still consistent, would you be on board?

I mean, as an example of transitioning from button presses to engagement, we have Excalibur. Specifically, Radial Javelin -> Exalted Blade. I'm probably breaking a law using Excal as an analogy for Trinity changes, and I would like to say I don't want Trinity to mechanically be anything like Excal. However, the change was pretty exhilarating. If they could bring any sort of excitement back to Trin, that would make me happy. Agreed or eh? 

You might find I never brought up my build, this is a discussion on Trin's fundamental kit and its general behavior with specialization builds has sensibly been brought to the conversation.

But alright, you can have my forum permit. It's 4 years out of date anyway.

Define "relegated to", in your experience so far. 

I hope so as well, and I think it can be done.

I don't enjoy having to spam cast EV/blessing.  Granted I don't have an optimized build for her.  So basically my only reliable build is an EV spam build.  But still I've seen what she's like with proper builds.  I don't enjoy the way it looks.  You're just interrupting gameplay for her when you cast.  I prefer harrow as my support.  Or oberon.  More interplay of their abilities and I don't feel like my gameplay is being halted.  I wrote up a rework for trinity awhile ago.  I firmly believe in my changes for her EV and well of life.  Link not so much.  Blessing ish.

[RealPandemonium]

Trinity was stupidly overpowered when you took your break, and is a boring, unnecessary, still-overpowered crutch today.  She brings out the worst qualities of Warframe players, promoting heedless play and limitless spam.  Her ability set is boring and exploitable.  I support a full delete and re-imagining of the character from the ground up.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

On 2018-06-25 at 6:48 PM, (PS4)super_sayene_4 said:

self damge was nerf  in pc this change will be on consol next update ^^

I figured. I've been on and off for awhile, so I missed the change. As long as nothing else Is touched then whatever.

[yles9056]

At least replace Well of Life with something that's actually useful. Other than a few niche usage, Well of Life is just bad.