Suggestion: starter warframes

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

16 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Here we go again, assuming new players are mentally deficient and only when it comes to Mag.

DE reports over 30 millions accounts across 3 platforms, obviously the new player experience isn't that hard for people to grasp. 

 

That's a bad argument because it has nothing to do with how often Mag is picked as starter frame and you know it.

[MagPrime]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

That's a bad argument because it has nothing to do with how often Mag is picked as starter frame and you know it.

It's about as accurate as claiming players would understand game mechanics within the first few days of play and you know it.

Come on Hiero, you're all over the place with your reasons and are hiding with superfluous paragraphs worth of nonsense. 

You cannot expect a new player to be knowledgeable of combos like all the starters are capable of.  Warframes game play revolves around trying new things and experimenting with different builds and combinations, no new player will ever be cognizant of Mag, Excals or Volts potential until they've been playing for years. 

You've completely ignored the complexities of Excal's combos and mechanics, that require wiki research to even know about. Last I checked, no where in game does it explain that his abilities utilize his melee weapon mods - a rather important piece of information, don't you think?

Edited June 26, 2018 by MagPrime

[purdo84]

I disagree but I do think that Mag is a very advanced frame for a starter and that's why she cops a lot of hate. She requires a player to have a certain degree of skill and understanding of the games mechanics which a new player just isn't going to have. She can be godly with the right build and weapons, but again a player just starting out isn't going to have these so Excal and Volt are much better choices. 

[MagPrime]

21 minutes ago, purdo84 said:

I disagree but I do think that Mag is a very advanced frame for a starter and that's why she cops a lot of hate. She requires a player to have a certain degree of skill and understanding of the games mechanics which a new player just isn't going to have. She can be godly with the right build and weapons, but again a player just starting out isn't going to have these so Excal and Volt are much better choices. 

Where in the game does it tell the new player a rather important piece of information about Excal; how his exalted weapon works?

That's a bit more significant than how Pull yanks things about or how Polarize restores shields or how Crush grants overshields.

Magnetize is the only ability of Mag's that doesn't have a clear and straight forward ability description. 

[DatDarkOne]

This topic needs to be flushed due to all the excrement being thrown around.  I don't think I've ever read a topic where so many of the posters needed enema.  

[purdo84]

35 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Where in the game does it tell the new player a rather important piece of information about Excal; how his exalted weapon works?

That's a bit more significant than how Pull yanks things about or how Polarize restores shields or how Crush grants overshields.

Magnetize is the only ability of Mag's that doesn't have a clear and straight forward ability description. 

I'm more refering to playing her effectively, locking down a map, creating choke points, staying alive by getting good at parkour and avoiding splash damage etc. New players won't know how to use her effectively because they lack an understanding of how the game works. How you play Excal and Volt is fairly straight forward compared to Mag, at least in my opinion, hence why I believe she is an advanced frame.

[Doom_Bunny]

The funny thing is that both Volt and Mag have utility, crowd control, and projectile stopping abilities. Meanwhile Excal is mostly directional with a small amount of cc and requires melee mods.

Nearly all frames have hidden traits in their abilities which you will get depending on your level of understanding and experimenting. Like how stance mods have secret boosts which are not fully disclosed.

For example: Shock

1. This shocks enemies and these mods change it.
2. Range doesn't affect casting range and electricity has a certain affect on certain enemies.
3. More understanding of how damaging works.
4. Understating how DE calculates everything to maximize this ability.

Just now, purdo84 said:

I'm more refering to playing her effectively, locking down a map, creating choke points, staying alive by getting good at parkour and avoiding splash damage etc. New players won't know how to use her effectively because they lack an understanding of how the game works. How you play Excal and Volt is fairly straight forward compared to Mag, at least in my opinion, hence why I believe she is an advanced frame.

So I should assume a new player knows about chromatic blade and how to stay alive? or how to maximize Volt for an Eidolon? What most people are describing is that for some reason if you pick Mag you need to be a top-teir-god. Locking down a map and creating choke points is not a requirement for new players. If they pick Mag they can stay alive just about as long as the other two, maybe more because Mag has the magic hands to restore shields. In terms of understanding their abilities right off the bat Mag and Volt are about equal. Speed, electric shield, discharge, polarize, and magnetize need greater understandings to properly stay alive latter. For starting out though, even if we say new players are the most simplistic of people, the abilities are fairly straight forward; press this to disrupt the enemies, use this on crowds, put this down and shoot (through) it.

[MagPrime]

39 minutes ago, purdo84 said:

I'm more refering to playing her effectively, locking down a map, creating choke points, staying alive by getting good at parkour and avoiding splash damage etc. New players won't know how to use her effectively because they lack an understanding of how the game works. How you play Excal and Volt is fairly straight forward compared to Mag, at least in my opinion, hence why I believe she is an advanced frame.

So, things someone learns after becoming experienced in the game. 

[purdo84]

10 minutes ago, Postal_pat said:

So I should assume a new player knows about chromatic blade and how to stay alive? or how to maximize Volt for an Eidolon?

This is a pretty moot point because new players just starting out are not going to have access to the Syndicates nor are they going to jump right into an eidolon hunt. One could assume that but you know what they say about assumptions right. 😁

Anyway it's all opinion and it's all subjective. One person's easy is another person's difficult.

[purdo84]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

So, things someone learns after becoming experienced in the game. 

Exactly, hence why I believe she is an advanced frame for a starting player. Knowledge of these aspect greatly increase how effective she can be, but it's also not exclusive to Mag, every frame benefits from advanced knowledge. 

Again, opinions are opinions. 

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, purdo84 said:

Exactly, hence why I believe she is an advanced frame for a starting player. Knowledge of these aspect greatly increase how effective she can be, but it's also not exclusive to Mag, every frame benefits from advanced knowledge. 

Again, opinions are opinions. 

No offense, but if you're going to hide behind "opinions are opinions" in a discussion thats quite obviously based on opinions, why bother posting?

We are, for the most part, well aware that this topic is subjective.  There is no hard evidence available that Mag is a bad starter, it's purely speculative based on our own experiences. 

Please join the discussion instead of jumping in and proclaiming "OPINIONS!!" when someone engages you with a different opinion.

Edited June 27, 2018 by MagPrime

[DatDarkOne]

9 minutes ago, purdo84 said:

Exactly, hence why I believe she is an advanced frame for a starting player. Knowledge of these aspect greatly increase how effective she can be, but it's also not exclusive to Mag, every frame benefits from advanced knowledge. 

Again, opinions are opinions. 

What is this foul odor?  It seems to permeate this topic.  With a fresh resurgence about 10 minutes ago.  

[purdo84]

Just now, MagPrime said:

No offense, but if you're going to hide behind "opinions are opinions" in a discussion thats quite obviously based on opinions, why bother posting?

We are, for the most part, well aware that this topic is subjective.  There is no hard evidence available that Mag is a bad starter, it's purely speculative based on our own experiences. 

Please join the discussion instead of jumping in and proclaiming "OPINIONS!!" when someone engages you with a different opinion.

Except I never said she was a bad choice for a starter frame only she was more advanced than the other choices. I actually disagree with the OP's suggestion to remove her as a starter frame.

As for hiding behind opinions, well Again, that's your opinion. I'm not claiming anything as fact, nor am I devaluing anyone else's point of view on the topic. I am merely acknowledging that our opinions do not agree and that my opinion has not changed based on what others have said. 

 

[purdo84]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

What is this foul odor?  It seems to permeate this topic.  With a fresh resurgence about 10 minutes ago.  

Well that's just rude.

[Doom_Bunny]

20 minutes ago, purdo84 said:

This is a pretty moot point because new players just starting out are not going to have access to the Syndicates nor are they going to jump right into an eidolon hunt. One could assume that but you know what they say about assumptions right. 😁

 

It's also pretty moot to ask them to create choke points and lock down a map in a game they've never played before.

"Billy! You should of used discharge here and had a shield here. You would of locked the map but now your dead. Why don't you know these things you've been playing for 5mins."

-Expectations for a New Player (coming soon^tm)

Edited June 27, 2018 by Postal_pat

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, purdo84 said:

Well that's just rude.

But creative right?   

[purdo84]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

But creative right?   

I must admit, I did chuckle a bit at the creativeness😆

[MagPrime]

8 minutes ago, purdo84 said:

Except I never said she was a bad choice for a starter frame only she was more advanced than the other choices. I actually disagree with the OP's suggestion to remove her as a starter frame.

As for hiding behind opinions, well Again, that's your opinion. I'm not claiming anything as fact, nor am I devaluing anyone else's point of view on the topic. I am merely acknowledging that our opinions do not agree and that my opinion has not changed based on what others have said. 

 

And I never said you did claim she was. 

I'm asking you to leave off with the obvious because it detracts from the conversation. 

We know it's your opinion.  Every page here is filled with opinions.

[Vox_Preliator]

I don't think Rhino would be a good Starter Frame.  He is very much an early-mid game crutch that teaches bad habits, and having him early in the starchart encourages players that do some research.

By having him early, but not first, a player that sees him and thinks "Wow this looks strong I want this" can build him without too much trouble, but until then they would have to learn at minimum the basics of modding and movement, before they have the chance to not learn those early due to Roar and Iron Skin lessening their importance.

I see him as similar to Oberon, in a sense.  They are early, easy to build, use, and understand, which seem incredibly powerful and valuable to a new player, placed just early enough that players nigh immediately have a goal with what they see as a major power spike right out of the gate.

That said, what's difficult to understand about Mag?  The descriptions and experimenting explains the basics fine:  Ragdoll, Aimbot, Regen, and Nuke, which is plenty of information for a newbie.  She's not really notably squishier than the other two, either.

[purdo84]

2 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

And I never said you did claim she was. 

I'm asking you to leave off with the obvious because it detracts from the conversation. 

We know it's your opinion.  Every page here is filled with opinions.

Fair point, I'll pay that. 

[MagPrime]

.

Edited June 27, 2018 by MagPrime
D-double post

[Obviousclone]

2 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

I don't think Rhino would be a good Starter Frame.  He is very much an early-mid game crutch that teaches bad habits, and having him early in the starchart encourages players that do some research.

By having him early, but not first, a player that sees him and thinks "Wow this looks strong I want this" can build him without too much trouble, but until then they would have to learn at minimum the basics of modding and movement, before they have the chance to not learn those early due to Roar and Iron Skin lessening their importance.

I see him as similar to Oberon, in a sense.  They are early, easy to build, use, and understand, which seem incredibly powerful and valuable to a new player, placed just early enough that players nigh immediately have a goal with what they see as a major power spike right out of the gate.

That said, what's difficult to understand about Mag?  The descriptions and experimenting explains the basics fine:  Ragdoll, Aimbot, Regen, and Nuke, which is plenty of information for a newbie.  She's not really notably squishier than the other two, either.

Her 2 isn't worth it as an aimbot. 50 energy and usually it works on 1 guy. spending 50 energy on 1 guy is suicide if you are a new player with no mods. Her 3 is like "well you could do this, or you could roll behind some cover and regenerate that shield too" and it just does not feel worth the 75 energy cost. her 1 is also somewhat annoying with how inconsistent the pull distances are.

 

A new player would probably enjoy someone like oberon or ash who are much more mod indepedent and provide actual distinctive but appreciable utility.

[MagPrime]

I think I'll petition my Facebook gaming groups and see if i can get a few people to start up Warframe then get their assessments. 

[Ragnarok160]

ive responded to more posts of this topic then i care to admit and ill say again, your very right i dont think mag should be in the starting lineup for good reasons

she isnt new player friendly. looking at excal and volt both have cc and defense with excals radial blind which carries him into god tier and volts stun/shield. you could pretty much put poop mods on both and they would still outlive a fair modded mag, im not saying mag cant be crazy but she really doesnt do anything better.

[Ragnarok160]

Just now, MagPrime said:

I think I'll petition my Facebook gaming groups and see if i can get a few people to start up Warframe then get their assessments. 

just dont trick them into picking volt