Blocked Players Outbreak

[(PSN)Onder6099]

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay i think you still miss a key point here, the plat has entered the system and its fake.

If i bought 4000 plat and gave you 2000 while you had none, you will have 2K plat. If you buy anything from the market with that you will have less than 2K plat what means when they go to remove the fake plat from the system after banning me you will too get that plat removed and since you now have less than the original amount you get into negative balance and get banned.

DE simply cannot go and ignore Player B, C and D because they might have been allies in this crime with A and even if they were not they cant let fake plat circulate in the system. They also cant let the fake plat by negated out with trading since that would still mean that legit plat gets removed from the system thanks to some scammer.

I don’t why you still try to teach me how it works on PC and what is, in general, called Colective guilty while I already stated I exactly know how it works. Main difference is: Refund against No refund. I sell you 100 TVs, u sell them but you didn’t paid me, should I visit all buyers and ask them to give TVs back to me because you didn’t paid me? No, I have Invoice as a Payment agreement so I send u warning, if that doesn’t work I will simply visit lawyer who will start financiall execution against you, unfortunately I must overlap the period until I get money from you. Difference in general: is easier to apply Colective guilty then waiting for money until the law process is done. Platinum resellers: I can’t imagine that the Steam or others will change their Refund policies just because WF is played by naive teenagers. SONY Corp vs DE, in financial level.

Edited July 4, 2018 by (PS4)Onder6099

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I don’t why you still try to teach me how it works on PC and what is, in general, called Colective guilty while I already stated I exactly know how it works. Main difference is: Refund against No refund. I sell you 100 TVs, u sell them but you didn’t paid me, should I visit all buyers and ask them to give TVs back to me because you didn’t paid me? No, I have Invoice as a Payment agreement so I send u warning, if that doesn’t work I will simply visit lawyer who will start financiall execution against you, unfortunately I must overlap the period until I get money from you. Difference in general: is easier to apply Colective guilty then waiting for money until the law process is done. Platinum resellers: I can’t imagine that the Steam or others will change their Refund policies just because WF is played by naive teenagers. SONY Corp vs DE, in financial level.

Okay i gonna put this into a different perspective.

Today you wake up and find out you got a payment deposit from your workplace. Its 10K dollars which is a lot but they were already talking about giving you a big raise so you accept it.

You go into a bunch of shops and buy a TV, a brand new futuristic grill and some kitchen appliances.

Now later that day you get a message that your workplace initiated a chargeback because this cash was not meant for you, your payment arrives much later and now you are in a high negative balance.

You can leave that in that way or call your bank to initiate mass chargeback on all your payments to the shops you visited and you also need to bring back anything what was not used.

If the shops used that money when the chargeback hit they can too initiate chargebacks or press on with legal charges but the latter is much slower.

 

The same happens here. DE, sony, steam can go and apply a no refund policy if i tell my bank that the person who used my card was not authorized for it they will press on it and they cant even sue me because their opponent would be the bank system i used and the local laws of the said country what defend the customer in this case.

[RedLila]

20 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

 

Unless you are willing to wait upwards of 120 days or more, the average charge back period, verified plat idea is a no go.

Yeah, if that's the charge-back time frame then doing "verified" plat is more problematic. I'd still argue its the "simplest" solution, though certainly less practical with that time scale.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay i gonna put this into a different perspective.

Today you wake up and find out you got a payment deposit from your workplace. Its 10K dollars which is a lot but they were already talking about giving you a big raise so you accept it.

You go into a bunch of shops and buy a TV, a brand new futuristic grill and some kitchen appliances.

Now later that day you get a message that your workplace initiated a chargeback because this cash was not meant for you, your payment arrives much later and now you are in a high negative balance.

You can leave that in that way or call your bank to initiate mass chargeback on all your payments to the shops you visited and you also need to bring back anything what was not used.

If the shops used that money when the chargeback hit they can too initiate chargebacks or press on with legal charges but the latter is much slower.

 

The same happens here. DE, sony, steam can go and apply a no refund policy if i tell my bank that the person who used my card was not authorized for it they will press on it and they cant even sue me because their opponent would be the bank system i used and the local laws of the said country what defend the customer in this case.

Problem is that you signed up agreement with no refund before everything you listed will happen, which is 100% proof for SONY they, soon or later, will get the money from you back, so it’s not necessary to punish other players because a big corporation can simply allow that (period without your money).

Edited July 4, 2018 by (PS4)Onder6099

[Fallen_Echo]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Problem is that you signed up agreement with no refund before everything you listed will happen, which is 100% proof for SONY they, soon or later, will get the money from you back, so it’s not necessary to punish other players because a big corporation can simply allow that (period without your money).

You may have signed up for that but by claiming that you didnt authorized that payment the banks get the upper hand in the situation and sony or DE cant do anything about it because the law protects you in these cases.

You cannot create a legal agreement what breaks a law of a country. For example if my country from now on says all kind of data collection what was not peer reviewed by the users are illegal DE or Sony can go and point at the agreement they had with the users it will be as useful as using warm coat in a radiation sortie.

[Haizom]

On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎04 at 7:15 AM, ScribbleClash said:

Guilty unless proven innocent.

I think it's more like the opposite in this case. Innocent unless proven guilty. Players are not aware, and it's impossible to be, if someone is cheating. Some people told me to just hold on to recently traded PL so you can make sure it's safe, but no one deserves such a thing because of hackers. Some action must be done against this, either offensive or defensive, in a way so innocent players may be spared. Not like how it's happening right now. Just yesterday one of my friends was also a victim from this, and he is owing 4991 PL for DE. I don't know how did that happen. Maybe he wasn't too honest on his answers, because this is an extremely high amount. Still, this is something capable of ruining the experience of every player on this game.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Haizom

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

You do realize that DE is able to remove the fraudulent platinum from the game so they already have a way to track it, right? It's just too bad they don't (have a way to) track it back to its source.

What DE needs to do is get rid of the horrible trade chat and actually implement a player market of which there are dozens of viable examples in various MMOs dating back over a decade.

My personnel favorite design being from PSU as each player could create a shop in their room (or ship in this case) and other players could search for an item, visit other player's stores, and leave messages if needed. You could even set a pass code on youe store only allowing certain friends to enter or even block access entirely. The best part is that these stores were always available so as long as you left the item in the shop and didn't lock your store you could sell things when you were offline. It's simple, promotes visiting other Tenno, keeps the market competitive, allows for searches to discover rarity and estimate cost, etc. And yes, PSU was released in 2006.

Edited July 6, 2018 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Im going to point out the FACT that if they have logs that show who got plat from who, they can equally as easily log the items in the trades and simply reverse the trade.

I have been told they also keep a record on market purchases for a month. Meaning any item bough with plat on markwt in that time can be refunded as well.

As for third party recepients of chargebacked plat beyond the inital few, it becomes increasingly unethical to punish players in this manner.

 

Its current implementation is already an unethical scare tactic. I have a few valuble rivens i am terrified to sell in fear of DE suddenly taking my plat away without refunding the effort i made with the riven.

[Sangiros]

Ok, whatever in the name of hell is going on here? What do you mean the system rolls back platinum that changed hands?! And why is the system banning the victims instead of refunding their platinum that wasn't purposefully ill-gotten?! What even is the logic here?! If the rollback transaction got through then only the original buyer should have negative plat, not those who got scammed out of it! Whatever tracker is active on plats traded should logically stop after they changed owners!

There has been a mass ban wave here on Brazil, friends and such being blocked from playing this game due to a lot of spiteful players purposefully triggering these! Why aren't you protecting your tenno, DE?!

[KIREEK]

On 2018-07-03 at 4:59 AM, --Q--Voltage said:

I think this is a very bad suggestion that promotes witch hunting and/or naming and shaming. The real solution is for DE to reverse trades, not ban the victims of credit card fraud or other illegal platinum methods.

And revert market purchased items instead of waiting for a reply from the banned user stating which item needs to be removed.

Obviously certain things can't be reverted, but since the cost of orokin reactors are so small, it would still cut down on the issues

[mycrus]

This scares me.... 2 prime access bought.. steam dlcs... plat from website... and i could be blocked for what somebody else did...

[Haizom]

On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎04 at 4:28 PM, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay i gonna put this into a different perspective.

Today you wake up and find out you got a payment deposit from your workplace. Its 10K dollars which is a lot but they were already talking about giving you a big raise so you accept it.

You go into a bunch of shops and buy a TV, a brand new futuristic grill and some kitchen appliances.

Now later that day you get a message that your workplace initiated a chargeback because this cash was not meant for you, your payment arrives much later and now you are in a high negative balance.

You can leave that in that way or call your bank to initiate mass chargeback on all your payments to the shops you visited and you also need to bring back anything what was not used.

If the shops used that money when the chargeback hit they can too initiate chargebacks or press on with legal charges but the latter is much slower.

 

The same happens here. DE, sony, steam can go and apply a no refund policy if i tell my bank that the person who used my card was not authorized for it they will press on it and they cant even sue me because their opponent would be the bank system i used and the local laws of the said country what defend the customer in this case.

Your statement is ridiculous, and does not apply to this case, and here's why.

No one that gets a high amount of money in their banking accounts spends it like that. If you do, you are stupid, exactly because you don't know where that money came from or why. If you do, then you should know it's for you, and you can spend it because you know it's meant for you. If not, it's not meant for you, and you should not spend it. Simply as that. And in each of the cases of said, everyone knows where the money is, and with who the product is.

In Warframe, you know the player is placing the correct amount of PL, and for sure you know it's meant for you, and why.

You can't just know when someone is giving you refunded PL, so it's DE job to get only the one responsible for this mess. 

The easiest way is to track down the original platinum buyer, as I said. The rollback could be a fix, but optional for everyone of course. This is just ridiculous. It still bothers me how they didn't say anything about this subject on TennoCon or even on any other DevStream

Edited July 13, 2018 by Haizom

[Fallen_Echo]

14 minutes ago, Haizom said:

Your statement is ridiculous, and does not apply to this case, and here's why.

No one that gets a high amount of money in their banking accounts spends it like that. If you do, you are stupid, exactly because you don't know where that money came from or why. If you do, then you should know it's for you, and you can spend it because you know it's meant for you. If not, it's not meant for you, and you should not spend it. Simply as that. And in each of the cases of said, everyone knows where the money is, and with who the product is.

In Warframe, you know the player is placing the correct amount of PL, and for sure you know it's meant for you, and why.

You can't just know when someone is giving you refunded PL, so it's DE job to get only the one responsible for this mess. 

The easiest way is to track down the original platinum buyer, as I said. The rollback could be a fix, but optional for everyone of course. This is just ridiculous. It still bothers me how they didn't say anything about this subject on TennoCon or even on any other DevStream

You dont get it do you?

You are right its DE's job to get the one responsible for this and they do exactly that. The know platinum reseller or the guy who charged back the cash got banned already!

You are the holder of fradulent plat currently not the original criminal, your crime is nothing more than holding illegal plat. As that plat gets removed you are enforced to pay up the costs what used up non-existing plat that means if you had 100 plat total, got 100 more from the scammer and spent 110 plat on the market you gonna lose 100 plat then another 110 to pay up for the costs.

Let me repeat the main parts of this:

1. The plat scammer/charge-back guy/hacker got banned already, you are trying to find someone who already got punished.
2. The holders of the non-existant plat are getting that plat removed from them and if that pushes them into negative balance they are getting auto-banned.

 

As for your reasoning how do you know that the plat you get from a trade was meant for you? Just like in the bank sceniario, the guy who got the cash thought its for him and the shops all thought its for them. Literally what clarification you get what says that the plat in the trade was meant for you, why do you think i wouldnt go and make a mass chargeback just to screw with you?

 

[Haizom]

 

2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

As for your reasoning how do you know that the plat you get from a trade was meant for you? Just like in the bank sceniario, the guy who got the cash thought its for him and the shops all thought its for them. Literally what clarification you get what says that the plat in the trade was meant for you, why do you think i wouldnt go and make a mass chargeback just to screw with you?

Because if someone gets money in their accounts, they are expecting for it, that's the major difference. I'm not talking about the stores, but the original source of the money. If you're not expecting for it, then something is obviously wrong. Now if what you say is true, that the original plat buyer got banned already, then DE is still failing on doing something to stop this from happening. Don't get me wrong. This is good, but it's only one part of the real problem. They can't just block players because they were holding something that they don't even knew wasn't supposed to be in the game. Yet, they're making players pay for something they don't even asked for. Something that they were supposed to get in a totally free way. Blocking them for this is unethical like people already said. They should be at least be able to play the game even with negative platinum, which would be shown with a - sign by it, so they could get the platinum back, since it's not their fault. Or just leave them with 0. It's just wrong.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Haizom

[EvilChaosKnight]

Negative plat ban. That is exactly the part which feels wrong to me. They are basically trying to make a small fortune on people's... misfortune. It feels pretty dirty and dishonest from many angles, esp. since most of the affected players are the ones who try to earn pl through in-game grind. Fine, remove the plat and reverse the trades, if someone tried to be funny and did a chargeback using the bank. That's perfectly understandable and reasonable. DE are a business after all, and they can't just let "wrong" or "free" plat float around.

But why block access to the game completely and straight up demand a purchase? Say, if one of my clan mates got bant for negative plat, I'd see nothing wrong to shell out 300 or even 500pl from of my reserves to help them out. They could also try and trade to cover the debt or wait for a discount at least.

Now, to discourage people from sitting at negative plat forever and ever, DE could restrict a few functions like relays and changing appearance (mah fashionframe) as well as annoy the player in question with daily unskippable inbox messages from Darvo or whatnot.

[Fallen_Echo]

58 minutes ago, Haizom said:

Because 

Because if someone gets money in their accounts, they are expecting for it, that's the major difference. I'm not talking about the stores, but the original source of the money. If you're not expecting for it, then something is obviously wrong. Now if what you say is true, that the original plat buyer got banned already, then DE is still failing on doing something to stop this from happening. Don't get me wrong. This is good, but it's only one part of the real problem. They can't just block players because they were holding something that they don't even knew wasn't supposed to be in the game. Yet, they're making players pay for something they don't even asked for. Something that they were supposed to get in a totally free way. Blocking them for this is unethical like people already said. They should be at least be able to play the game even with negative platinum, which would be shown with a - sign by it, so they could get the platinum back, since it's not their fault. Or just leave them with 0. It's just wrong.

The problem is that the way to do this is easy as hell.

How to scam:

1. Create an account
2. Grind for mr 2
3. Buy a plat pack
4. Trade and gift a bunch of stuff
5. Chargeback and watch your account getting instabanned
6. Enjoy the tought you just made a bunch of peoples life harder
7. .....
8. Grofit!

Repeat till bored.