Energy Siphon: Too Fun Not To Be Inherant.

[Drasiel]

The longer I've played Warframe, the more I've thought Energy Siphon as a aura or an artifact was a bad idea. It adds too much fun to playing. Right about now you're probably thinking "Woah nelly, we've got a crazy one here!" but please hear me out.

 

Using our powers is cool as well as fun and everyone has probably run into that one really hard mission before you or anyone you've been playing with has got a copy of Energy Siphon and the blue balls just don't drop. It sucks right? The fact that we have strange inherant tenno powers is what really seperates this game from other point and shoot adventures for me, and I'm probably not alone. 

 

So here is my proposition: First split the Warframes up by the energy they have at level 30 without mods. For the purposes of this I'm going to call the Frames the Get 150 energy at 30 "150 energy frames" and the ones that get 225 energy at 30 "225 energy frames".

 

NOTE: I'm just calling them 150 energy frames and 225 energy frames so I don't have to type out all the names multiple times. You can call them whatever you want.

 

150 energy frames     225 energy frames

Ash                             Banshee

Excalibur                     Ember

Frost                           Loki

Mag                            Nova

Rhino                          Nyx

Saryn                          Trinity

Volt                             Vauban

 

Now give all the the frames Inherant Energy Siphon based on their category. 150 energy frames get 1.2 energy/sec and 225 energy frames get 2.6 energy/sec. That's the equivilent of a four man team having all maxed Energy Syphon Auras equipped for the 225ers and a two man team with it maxed for the 150ers. If you feel that's too much then make it 0.6 and 1.2 respectively. You could even have the amount level up as you do if you wanted. Now, the counter argument I'm expecting for this part is "but if you make it inherant, people are going to stand and around waiting for their energy to regen just like when we had cooldowns on skills!". My rebuttal is no we won't, because we don't do this now. Unless we are about 3 or 4 energy away from using a single skill it's not worth it to stand around, we got mobs to kill and they drop more energy than we'll get by doing nothing.

 

Before you say but you're taking my favorite aura to make the newbs happier, here's how we're going to keep it in the game. Change Energy Siphon to increase the amount of energy you gain from Energy orbs. As you level it up you gain x% or maybe just x amount more energy from the orbs.

 

Well, that's my idea let me know what you think about it.

 

TLDR: Give Warframes inherant energy regen based on their max level unmodded energy pool and change Energy Siphon to increase the amount of energy you gain from drops.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Drasiel

[Scheifen]

I've considered this as well, and I think it's a decent idea if the numbers of the energy regen/sec can be worked out.

 

I'd love to have enemy radar on more frames, since any frame with a utility aura slot automatically gets energy siphon right now. DE has said some of these other mods the community considers 'useless' are about choice, but I disagree. If there's no reason to take something other than something else, the former is 90% useless. 

[zergla]

This would make MUCH less punishing if people like me forget to pop the aura back in to your main after leveling a new frame.

[Saenol]

I don't think any of the aura's should be inherent, nor do I like the the above "brusiers/casters" categorization. I also do not think Energy Siphon's functionality needs to be changed.

 

Yes, Energy Siphon is commonly taken, but it's not the only aura that I, or many others, make use of, and when I do slot it, I'm as likely to slot it on a frame of lower energy than one of higher energy, as there are next to no frames it cannot be beneficial on.

 

I frequently use Rifle Amp, Corrosive Projection, Rejuvenation, or Infested Impedance, in place of Energy Siphon.

 

This would make MUCH less punishing if people like me forget to pop the aura back in to your main after leveling a new frame.

 

Is this supposed to be a good thing?

 

Not everything should be about making an easy game easier, and foolish omissions should be punishing.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Saenol

[Eirshy]

All hail energy siphon, the king of aura mods. Because no other mod gives anywhere near as much power as Energy Siphon does- because Energy Siphon unlocks all those ability mods you slotted for actual use!


So yes, please, just give us some innate energy siphon so we can actually use other auras :/
 

I don't think any of the aura's should be inherent, nor do I like the the above "brusiers/casters" categorization. I also do not think Energy Siphon's functionality needs to be changed.

Yes, Energy Siphon is commonly taken, but it's not the only aura that I, or many others, make use of, and when I do slot it, I'm as likely to slot it on a frame of lower energy than one of higher energy, as there are next to no frames it cannot be beneficial on.

I frequently use Rifle Amp, Corrosive Projection, Rejuvenation, or Infested Impedance, in place of Energy Siphon.

And you're one of those guys I yell "YA'LL @(&*@#$#S NEED ENERGY SIPHON" at in pug runs because I'm the only one with it and we're all having issues because I (generally) need my abilities to hard carry and I don't have the energy to use them when I need them without at least two if not three or four.

smh

Edited August 20, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Drasiel]

I don't think any of the aura's should be inherent, nor do I like the the above "brusiers/casters" categorization. I also do not think Energy Siphon's functionality needs to be changed.

 

Yes, Energy Siphon is commonly taken, but it's not the only aura that I, or many others, make use of, and when I do slot it, I'm as likely to slot it on a frame of lower energy than one of higher energy, as there are next to no frames it cannot be beneficial on.

 

I frequently use Rifle Amp, Corrosive Projection, Rejuvenation, or Infested Impedance, in place of Energy Siphon.

 

Well they are just names I chose to make it so I didn't have to type out the list of frames more than once, but I feel the division is fair because what I dubbed the casters need to use their skills more in higher level play because they tend to be squishier.

 

That you use other aura's is awesome, but I wasn't trying to say that Energy Siphon should be inherent because everyone uses it. I was saying it should be inherent because I think it would be more fun.

[Eirshy]

Well they are just names I chose to make it so I didn't have to type out the list of frames more than once, but I feel the division is fair because what I dubbed the casters need to use their skills more in higher level play because they tend to be squishier.

 

That you use other aura's is awesome, but I wasn't trying to say that Energy Siphon should be inherent because everyone uses it. I was saying it should be inherent because I think it would be more fun.

 

Well you're actually right if you think ES is "better" than other auras. Currently any aura except *maybe* the fourth one is suboptimal as not-energy-siphon (unless you have a good Trinity with you, then it's maybe the third and definitely the fourth that can be something else). Energy Siphon just provides more than all of the other auras- because it grants you with massively more use of those ability cards you slotted,

Edited August 20, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[TheHeraldXII]

I like the idea of innate energy regen, but 0.5/second built into the frame would be sufficient I think. Giving us inbuilt regen equal to a full team of energy siphon is excessive. Hek, I find a full team worth of ES to be excessive in general.

[jmthebigman]

Mag should also be a caster, swap with Loki.

not to sure bout this but seems fun.

[Drasiel]

Mag should also be a caster, swap with Loki.

not to sure bout this but seems fun.

 

I split them up based on max energy only, However Loki does end up with much much lower shields than mag does, mags 450 at 30 compared to lokis 225 at 30, so I feels it's fair.

[Mainabi]

bruiser? caster? I play my saryn as a caster Q.Q

[Phatose]

I disagree wholeheartedly.

 

Energy Siphon certainly needs a change - it's functionally boring, and tends to make the game into endless ulti-spam.  While I'm certainly happy to make use of it while it's around, it's not a good long term plan.  It not only becomes rather monotonous, but also encourages careless play - using ultimates when there's not enough enemies around to realistically recover your reserve.  Why worry, since it will all just build back up automagically?

 

Much better to can it all together, and replace it with a more interesting mechanic.  Energy for stylistic kills, reduced costs for using different powers in series, recovery energy on kill mods for weapons.  "Just stand there" is just boring.

[neKroMancer]

Giving frame an innate energy regeneration isn't different from giving it a long cooldown. On papar, player should go out and seek blue orbs to fill the meter faster. However, in real situation player will stay and wait until be can cast 1 ultimate before venture into the next room.

TBH, the problem is it rewards waiting more than actual playing.

[Paprika]

I like where this is going because the energy issues in the game need addressing, but I think the energy model as a whole needs a rework. I've seen 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/97811-stances-tactical-teamwork-roles-that-make-energy-awesome/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96093-turn-energy-orbs-into-particles-and-the-addition-of-an-overheat-system/?hl=overheat

 

The above links are interesting ideas. I like the one on the bottom the best (overheat system).

[Drasiel]

Giving frame an innate energy regeneration isn't different from giving it a long cooldown. On papar, player should go out and seek blue orbs to fill the meter faster. However, in real situation player will stay and wait until be can cast 1 ultimate before venture into the next room.

TBH, the problem is it rewards waiting more than actual playing.

 

Except there are still energy orbs with the system I propose and unless players are doing this right now with the current energy siphon I don't see them suddenly starting to stand around all of a sudden if it's effect became inherent.

[Hayden11121]

I'm sorry, but did you call Volt a bruiser?

 

I'd like to see the reasoning behind that... 10 armor ain't bruiser status.

[Drasiel]

I'm sorry, but did you call Volt a bruiser?

 

I'd like to see the reasoning behind that... 10 armor ain't bruiser status.

 

I grouped them based on the max energy they have at level 30 without mods. The names of the categories mean nothing, they were just a way for me to not have to type out all the names multiple times.

 

-_- Clearly I need to name the categories something less controversial.

[gell]

I've been wanting energy to be passive forever. Abilities are what make Warframes unique; the player should be using their abilities constantly. Of course, rebalancing would be required, as some abilities are straight up damage and are basically just guns you can only use once every 10 seconds. So it's not about changing one aspect and being done.

 

When I talked to DESteve at E3, and I'm sure he was just being gracious, I asked him about how energy is not obtained in a fun way. Collecting orbs is silly, because it takes players away from combat. Granted if melee someone to death, the energy orb will likely fly into you, but otherwise, it's not really encouraging you to use the abilities. Most folks save up for their ults and wait. Steve nodded a lot and said that an energy change was coming. I hope he wasn't talking about the aura system, because 0.6 is not way better than 0.5 with the artifacts. They could tie in stamina with power usage, rebalance damage, make more abilities utility, and get rid of having to hunt down an orb just because you're sitting at 99 energy, or 24 energy, and unable to use the ability (yes, I'm using examples based off base values, even though I often use the Streamline mod). It was obvious from the E3 demos that energy regen was important to them because they had 4 energy siphons in the game. It was the clear winner, and they wanted players to use their abilities more often.

 

I'm a crazy ninja, but let me go around breaking trashcans and looking in lockers for energy to actually use my skills? Time for a change, DE. 0.6x4 regen aura isn't the answer, amazing as it is of course. That's why it needs to be inherent instead of an aura (although maybe an energy aura could still stack on your own passive regen?). It requires a rework, not just duct taping it into the current game. Most arguments against this don't consider that game balance can be reworked. It's very narrow thinking, and doesn't help game design.

[Xylia]

Other Mods have niche uses.

 

For example, when I'm solo on an Infested level, I find that there's more than enough blue orb drops to sustain myself... but yet sometimes I find myself wishing I had more red orbs. That's what Rejuvenation is for. With Rejuvenation, I can suddenly not care about getting hugged by a Toxic Ancient every now-and-then or picking up mods/resources/ammo from where I killed one without waiting for the cloud to go away first.

 

Because I know that a couple rooms later, I'm full health again without having to scavenge for those precious red orbs.

 

Also, Enemy Radar. I hate having to waste such large amounts of points slotting Enemy Sense to see enemies when I'm solo.

 

And then there's Rifle Amp. My Flux Rifle loves Rifle Amp. I only wish there was a Pistol Amp for my Acrid. Now THAT would be awesome, haha. Screw Energy Siphon, I'd take Pistol Amp and kill bosses in 3 seconds instead of 5.

[Lord.Finster]

Am I the only one in this game who thinks that the use of an ability should be a meaningful decision instead of a spamfest?

 

People who complain about the lack of difficulty are often those ultispammers that avoid systematically taking apart a horde of enemies with their weapons.

 

At the moment, Warframe is like WTF-mode in Dota, where all ability cooldowns are removed. Totally over the top.

Also, it becomes boring. Your ultimates, which should be really impressive, become the norm.

 

If people want to use their abilites in a meaningful way, the choice to use them must be a hard one.

Hard choices provide difficulty and make the game more interesting in the long run.

Players should have to choose carefully when to use their abilities, instead of camping behind Snowglobe and Bastille 24/7.

 

Failing to choose the correct timing of an ability should be annoying to the player and put the team in a dangerous position.

It may result in direct failure at the highest level of play but you can't have excitement without the risk of failure.

If you bork your ultimate in a MOBA game your team is likely to lose the next teamfight.

If you bork your ultimate in warframe it should be significantly harder to survive the next enemy assault team.

 

In my opinion it is necessary to have both cooldowns and energy consumption.

A cooldown is nothing but a mechanic that represents protection from overheating/overloading.

[Airnad]

Most regenerative aura are honestly boring, you only notice energy siphon since it's the most useful among the rest. The reason behind this is maybe because they intended the majority to do coop missions so regenerative aura such as Energy Siphon will stack and have a more efficient increase of mana regen per second.

So no, buffing/changing energy siphon will just make it too OP. Besides, mana pool cant be considered part of the whole mana consumption thing since every frame has the same energy consumption when it comes to skills that only changes if ever you attach mods such as streamline and flow.

The only advantage is that these 225 energy frames can store more compared to the other types which is not much of a bother for me. You cant have it all anyways.

 

THAT or make additional class mod exclusive that gives a 'passive effect for the frames. I like the way the devs made the game since there are a lot of options to fix this issue D:

Edited August 20, 2013 by Airnad

[notionphil]

I disagree wholeheartedly.

 

Energy Siphon certainly needs a change - it's functionally boring, and tends to make the game into endless ulti-spam.  While I'm certainly happy to make use of it while it's around, it's not a good long term plan.  It not only becomes rather monotonous, but also encourages careless play - using ultimates when there's not enough enemies around to realistically recover your reserve.  Why worry, since it will all just build back up automagically?

 

Much better to can it all together, and replace it with a more interesting mechanic.  Energy for stylistic kills, reduced costs for using different powers in series, recovery energy on kill mods for weapons.  "Just stand there" is just boring.

 

Am I the only one in this game who thinks that the use of an ability should be a meaningful decision instead of a spamfest?

In my opinion it is necessary to have both cooldowns and energy consumption.

A cooldown is nothing but a mechanic that represents protection from overheating/overloading.

 

Agreee!

 

....I find myself on T3 def using Nova, thinking

 

"....well I guess I should hit MP again because I'm at full E...Hmmm. Am I letting my team down by not spamming prime?. Or maybe I should save the E so I can CAST PRIME 3x+ in a row?"

 

WTF? I can cast the most powerful ability in the game 3+ times in a row? by doing nothing other than picking up some blue dots that the enemies will invariably drop when I nuke them?

[Lord.Finster]

That is another facet of the problem. Regenerating energy wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't complemented by an abundancy of blue orb drops.

Only together do they truly create the spamfest.

[Eirshy]

That is another facet of the problem. Regenerating energy wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't complemented by an abundancy of blue orb drops.

Only together do they truly create the spamfest.

 

This is actually a decent point... Give us enough base regen and we can do away with the orb drops entirely.

[notionphil]

This is actually a decent point... Give us enough base regen and we can do away with the orb drops entirely.

 

if ANYTHING a quick fix would be to make mobs not drop energy when they are nuked.