Ember Vs Saryn...

[Lucilius]

I would like to request players who play these Frames, or had played them, to compare them to each other.

 

I am particular about their ability to destroy Infested.

 

 

 

PS: Though honestly, I am thinking of getting the Nyx. The prospect of mind-controlling a higher tier baddy is intriguing.

[Lion_Of_Stone]

I play on a nyx and it's an extremely crowd control heavy frame, while Saryn/Ember are more about AOE damage.

[Tyrian3k]

Ember is good at killing light infested, but those aren't much of a problem anyways imo.

Saryn's attacks deal poison damage that ignores all armor which makes it more effective at disposing of ancients and higher level enemies in general.

 

Depending on how DE plans to change how armor works this may change drastically, though.

 

Nyx's chaos is always good, as it makes enemies generally ignore you and fight each other.

[Slurmageddon]

Ember is all about a sustained onslaught of damage over time whereas Saryn is all about delivering a massive payload all at once. 

[Lucilius]

I play on a nyx and it's an extremely crowd control heavy frame, while Saryn/Ember are more about AOE damage.

 

Ember is good at killing light infested, but those aren't much of a problem anyways imo.

Saryn's attacks deal poison damage that ignores all armor which makes it more effective at disposing of ancients and higher level enemies in general.

 

Depending on how DE plans to change how armor works this may change drastically, though.

 

Nyx's chaos is always good, as it makes enemies generally ignore you and fight each other.

 

Ember is all about a sustained onslaught of damage over time whereas Saryn is all about delivering a massive payload all at once. 

 

Awesome info guys. Much appreciated.

[alchemistjkt]

saryn master race... just sayin.

[darksithis002]

i like nyx best out of those 3, and then ember over saryin, even if saryin's 4 is op compared to embers

[AlienTetris]

saryn master race... just sayin.

Well Said.

 

[PsychedelicSnake]

Why compare two frames with different strengths, weaknesses, niches, and playstyles?

[CitizenV]

Ember is all about a sustained onslaught of damage over time whereas Saryn is all about delivering a massive payload all at once. 

Technically, Saryn's damage abilities are both DoT as well.

[zyraconne]

I have both potatoed.

 

Ember: I prefer her over Saryn. She can just Overheat and facetank enemies. World on Fire is awesome against the dogs, but if there's any ancient it'll be severely reduced in effectiveness. You'd need a good gun to get rid of them quickly (luckily she has a v aura polarity, for rifle amp). Be careful against disruptors, get hit and it's game over.

 

Saryn: Miasma kills them outright, but you'd only have so much energy to spam it (unlike WoF which you can walk on to spread the kills, along with Ember's higher energy pool). Molt does make them go after it (which I usually use and leave them behind just because lazy). She can survive disruptors better, though.

 

In the end, it's still whichever you prefer, and also if you can only have one of either you'd need to consider their uses against other things as well. Ember's Overheat really tanks everything, even Raptor's missile barrage, so if you farm bosses she might be better. On the other hand, Saryn has Miasma, nuff said.

[fishworshipper]

Why compare two frames with different strengths, weaknesses, niches, and playstyles?

Because they compete over inventory space, time and potatoes.

[Lucilius]

Why compare two frames with different strengths, weaknesses, niches, and playstyles?

Comparing it against one common enemy - Infested.

[Lucilius]

I have both potatoed.

 

Ember: I prefer her over Saryn. She can just Overheat and facetank enemies. World on Fire is awesome against the dogs, but if there's any ancient it'll be severely reduced in effectiveness. You'd need a good gun to get rid of them quickly (luckily she has a v aura polarity, for rifle amp). Be careful against disruptors, get hit and it's game over.

 

Saryn: Miasma kills them outright, but you'd only have so much energy to spam it (unlike WoF which you can walk on to spread the kills, along with Ember's higher energy pool). Molt does make them go after it (which I usually use and leave them behind just because lazy). She can survive disruptors better, though.

 

In the end, it's still whichever you prefer, and also if you can only have one of either you'd need to consider their uses against other things as well. Ember's Overheat really tanks everything, even Raptor's missile barrage, so if you farm bosses she might be better. On the other hand, Saryn has Miasma, nuff said.

Info much appreciated.

[Grilleds]

Ember is all about a sustained onslaught of damage over time whereas Saryn is all about delivering a massive payload all at once.

Actually Saryn's Venom has the highest potential sustained damage rate in the game.

----

I have both potatoed and Saryn formaed once. Saryn is without a doubt my favorite frame, and is one of very few frames that is a top pick for literally every situation. Miasma outright dominates anything up to around level 70ish, and still usually kills non-elites even then. Against level 70+ enemies, Venom's potential DPS is the absolute highest in the game, but you do need to pop spores like mad to make it worthwhile. Her Molt skill is also good for providing a temporary distraction, but its usability tends to wane over time.

Ember used to be really good. In fact I will argue that Ember used to be overpowered. But armor scaling really made it so that she isn't even all that great vs high level infested anymore since ancients eventually end up nearly immune to her fire damage. As if that wasn't bad enough, her Fireball skill doesn't even stick to ancients anymore, and still has absolutely terrible damage, even with AoE. Fire Blast doesn't get boosted by continuity either, making it a mostly useless ability compared to WoF. This leaves her with two good abilities, but WoF is hurt very badly by armor scaling. This means she is actually much better vs Corpus than Infested because most Corpus lack armor scaling, and the ones that have it, don't have a lot of armor to begin with. Paired with Volt, Ember is still a top pick for rushing Corpus missions though. She still needs a buff.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Grilleds

[Lucilius]

Actually Saryn's Venom has the highest potential sustained damage rate in the game.

----

I have both potatoed and Saryn formaed once. Saryn is without a doubt my favorite frame, and is one of very few frames that is a top pick for literally every situation. Miasma outright dominates anything up to around level 70ish, and still usually kills non-elites even then. Against level 70+ enemies, Venom's potential DPS is the absolute highest in the game, but you do need to pop spores like mad to make it worthwhile. Her Molt skill is also good for providing a temporary distraction, but its usability tends to wane over time.

Ember used to be really good. In fact I will argue that Ember used to be overpowered. But armor scaling really made it so that she isn't even all that great vs high level infested anymore since ancients eventually end up nearly immune to her fire damage. As if that wasn't bad enough, her Fireball skill doesn't even stick to ancients anymore, and still has absolutely terrible damage, even with AoE. Fire Blast doesn't get boosted by continuity either, making it a mostly useless ability compared to WoF. This leaves her with two good abilities, but WoF is hurt very badly by armor scaling. This means she is actually much better vs Corpus than Infested because most Corpus lack armor scaling, and the ones that have it, don't have a lot of armor to begin with. Paired with Volt, Ember is still a top pick for rushing Corpus missions though. She still needs a buff.

Info much appreciated. This is the kind of info that I am looking for.

[Darzk]

Its prettymuch all been said. A few numbers for you;

 

Ember:

Overheat: 91% damage reduction with Focus, lasts 20.5 seconds with both +duration mods, costs 35 energy with full Streamline

WoF: Max fire damage is ~25k before armor reductions, assuming available targets. Actually deals ~700 fire damage per second to three targets simultaneously, will last for ~12.5 seconds with both duration mods, and costs 70 energy with max Streamline. Effects targets up to 26 meters away.

 

Fire damage deals 2x damage to Infested and 1.25x damage to Grineer, but is reduced by armor.

 

Saryn:

Venom: 78 armor ignoring DPS (/w max Focus) against a single target, lasts for 23.7 seconds with +duration mods. Total of 1848 damage/target. Can be spread by shooting the spores to 4 targets within ~15 meters (/w stretch), but reduces the damage done to the original target and spread targets take ~1 second less ducarion from venom - can be spread back to the first target and can be cast multiple times on the same target. Costs only 18 energy with Streamline.

Moult: A decoy which can be placed in midair, which regenerates shields and health when not taking damage. Lasts up to 32 seconds with max rank and +duration mods. Quite squishy at higher levels, but can be placed in such a manner as to aggro without taking fire. Costs 35 energy with Streamline.

Contagion: +127.5% poison damage (/w max Focus) to melee attacks. This is treated as a element (it wont increase the damage done by other elements). Works with a thrown Glaive/Kestrel. Lasts for 31.6 seconds (/w +duration mods), but has a slight cast time (~1 sec). Costs 53 energy with Streamline.

Miasma: Bread and Butter, best damage nuke in the game. Wearing the alternate helm adds an additional partial damage tick. Stuns affected targets for 6.5 seconds (/w +duration mods), dealing 325 poison damage per second. Deals a total damage of ~2250 (/w Focus and +duration and alternate helm) to all targets within 14.5 meters of the caster. 70 energy with Streamline.

 

Poison damage ignores armor and deals 3x health damage to Corpus Moa's.

 

 

Ember is basically a tank with a big AoE aura that does damage. IMO, Saryn is the most effective 'caster' warframe in game, where you can sit back and let venom do its work, or charge in with an enhanced melee weapon, or draw enemies together with Moult and nuke them with Miasma.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Darzk

[Grilleds]

Poison damage ignores armor and deals 3x health damage to Corpus Moa's.

Not 100% accurate, but close. Actually almost everything does 3x damage to Corpus Moa's because it hits their center mass, which is their weak spot, and Moa's have no armor scaling, meaning they always take increase damage so long as you hit their center mass.

[Darzk]

Ah, makes sense, assuming that's why Acrid does 3x damage to Moa's as well.

 

To reword:

 

Venom and Miasma deal damage as DoT's, which deals 3x damage to Corpus Moas [due to DoT body placement].

Edited August 22, 2013 by Darzk

[Jin_Kazama]

Plus keep in mind, compared to Rhino and Frosts 150 Base armor, 
Embers is 10
and Saryns is 125

stick a 110% armor boost on that and thats 262.5 armor vs 21

That coupled with her amazing health (mines currently 1000+ means its damn hard for her to die, that coupled with a rejuvenation mod and with her molt to take some of the aggro off means shes actually really passively tanky

I love ember and Saryn btw i have them both maxed so im trying not to be biased xD

People also hate her 3 (contagion) as all it does it boost weapon damage, but keeping in mind that with focus thats basically adding a 120+%  poison mod on her melee which helps, and also... in the dojo it cuts straight to warframes health bars and ignores shields ;D

[zyraconne]

Plus keep in mind, compared to Rhino and Frosts 150 Base armor, 

Embers is 10

and Saryns is 125

stick a 110% armor boost on that and thats 262.5 armor vs 21

 

That coupled with her amazing health (mines currently 1000+ means its damn hard for her to die, that coupled with a rejuvenation mod and with her molt to take some of the aggro off means shes actually really passively tanky

Now let's see how that tanks Raptor's missiles. Or just void laser traps.

 

But I agree, in terms of dealing damage, Ember's skills has nothing to show for. It's just that her ridiculous "oh S#&$" button that makes you technically won't die (even knocked around like pancake), combined with a good loadout of weapons which I happen to have, made me slightly biased FOR Ember (as I don't really need damage-dealing powers). But again, yeah, also realizing that other thread asking about how to take down ancients seem to hint that you still have work to do with your weapons, I suggest going for Saryn.

Edited August 22, 2013 by zyraconne

[Lucilius]

Its prettymuch all been said. A few numbers for you;

 

Ember:

Overheat: 91% damage reduction with Focus, lasts 20.5 seconds with both +duration mods, costs 35 energy with full Streamline

WoF: Max fire damage is ~25k before armor reductions, assuming available targets. Actually deals ~700 fire damage per second to three targets simultaneously, will last for ~12.5 seconds with both duration mods, and costs 70 energy with max Streamline. Effects targets up to 26 meters away.

 

Fire damage deals 2x damage to Infested and 1.25x damage to Grineer, but is reduced by armor.

 

Saryn:

Venom: 78 armor ignoring DPS (/w max Focus) against a single target, lasts for 23.7 seconds with +duration mods. Total of 1848 damage/target. Can be spread by shooting the spores to 4 targets within ~15 meters (/w stretch), but reduces the damage done to the original target and spread targets take ~1 second less ducarion from venom - can be spread back to the first target and can be cast multiple times on the same target. Costs only 18 energy with Streamline.

Moult: A decoy which can be placed in midair, which regenerates shields and health when not taking damage. Lasts up to 32 seconds with max rank and +duration mods. Quite squishy at higher levels, but can be placed in such a manner as to aggro without taking fire. Costs 35 energy with Streamline.

Contagion: +127.5% poison damage (/w max Focus) to melee attacks. This is treated as a element (it wont increase the damage done by other elements). Works with a thrown Glaive/Kestrel. Lasts for 31.6 seconds (/w +duration mods), but has a slight cast time (~1 sec). Costs 53 energy with Streamline.

Miasma: Bread and Butter, best damage nuke in the game. Wearing the alternate helm adds an additional partial damage tick. Stuns affected targets for 6.5 seconds (/w +duration mods), dealing 325 poison damage per second. Deals a total damage of ~2250 (/w Focus and +duration and alternate helm) to all targets within 14.5 meters of the caster. 70 energy with Streamline.

 

Poison damage ignores armor and deals 3x health damage to Corpus Moa's.

 

 

Ember is basically a tank with a big AoE aura that does damage. IMO, Saryn is the most effective 'caster' warframe in game, where you can sit back and let venom do its work, or charge in with an enhanced melee weapon, or draw enemies together with Moult and nuke them with Miasma.

 

Not 100% accurate, but close. Actually almost everything does 3x damage to Corpus Moa's because it hits their center mass, which is their weak spot, and Moa's have no armor scaling, meaning they always take increase damage so long as you hit their center mass.

 

Ah, makes sense, assuming that's why Acrid does 3x damage to Moa's as well.

 

To reword:

 

Venom and Miasma deal damage as DoT's, which deals 3x damage to Corpus Moas [due to DoT body placement].

 

Plus keep in mind, compared to Rhino and Frosts 150 Base armor, 

Embers is 10

and Saryns is 125

stick a 110% armor boost on that and thats 262.5 armor vs 21

That coupled with her amazing health (mines currently 1000+ means its damn hard for her to die, that coupled with a rejuvenation mod and with her molt to take some of the aggro off means shes actually really passively tanky

I love ember and Saryn btw i have them both maxed so im trying not to be biased xD

People also hate her 3 (contagion) as all it does it boost weapon damage, but keeping in mind that with focus thats basically adding a 120+%  poison mod on her melee which helps, and also... in the dojo it cuts straight to warframes health bars and ignores shields ;D

 

Now let's see how that tanks Raptor's missiles. Or just void laser traps.

 

But I agree, in terms of dealing damage, Ember's skills has nothing to show for. It's just that her ridiculous "oh S#&$" button that makes you technically won't die (even knocked around like pancake), combined with a good loadout of weapons which I happen to have, made me slightly biased FOR Ember (as I don't really need damage-dealing powers). But again, yeah, also realizing that other thread asking about how to take down ancients seem to hint that you still have work to do with your weapons, I suggest going for Saryn.

 

 Awesome info guys.

[CeePee]

Ember is great for normal missions vs Infested and Corpus, you can activate World on fire and just keep running and gunning.

 

Saryn just clears one room, whereas Ember can keep on running with ultimate on.

[GottFaust]

Saryn has the top DPS output of any frame currently in the game with Venom. She also has the only melee steroid, a decoy, and one of the best ultimates available. Furthermore: she is the third most survivable frame in terms of raw stats, and not even slow.

Saryn has literally no downsides except a high skill ceiling on venom.

[Grilleds]

Saryn has the top DPS output of any frame currently in the game with Venom. She also has the only melee steroid, a decoy, and one of the best ultimates available. Furthermore: she is the third most survivable frame in terms of raw stats, and not even slow.

Saryn has literally no downsides except a high skill ceiling on venom.

Invisibility and Smoke Bomb don't count?

[GottFaust]

Invisibility and Smoke Bomb don't count?

That depends on your definition of a steroid in this instance. If you count guaranteed crits they are. I count only raw damage. Those two are crit chance steroids, not general melee steroids.

Either way it's a technicality.

Edited August 22, 2013 by GottFaust