Overcapping Status

[Signs]

Exceeding 100% critical chance allows your weapon to have a chance at a orange crit. But exceeding 100% status does not do anything. 

I suggest they make it similar to exceeding 100% crit chance where there is an additional chance to proc status if you exceed. 

For example, 125% status chance means that you have a 100% chance to proc a status and a 25% chance to proc an additional status.

But hey, orange/red crits exist so why not let this exist as well?

[Yasha-7HS]

Because status procs are powerful enough already, and this would throw balance. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

Because status procs are powerful enough already, and this would throw balance. 

Double proccing status isn’t all that OP.

[peterc3]

There's a single status proc this applies to and it's the reason this won't happen. Slash. Either it changes or nothing like this can happen.

[Yasha-7HS]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Double proccing status isn’t all that OP.

Doubling corrosive halving the time it takes to reduce armor, which is already quite fast. 

Doubling Gas procs which already do great damage especially in conjunction with melee and stealth multipliers. 

Doubling Slash procs which already destroy most enemies under level 300. 

 

No. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 minutes ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

Doubling corrosive halving the time it takes to reduce armor, which is already quite fast. 

Doubling Gas procs which already do great damage especially in conjunction with melee and stealth multipliers. 

Doubling Slash procs which already destroy most enemies under level 300. 

 

No. 

But, yes.

[Signs]

There are only a select number of weapons that can reach over 100% status. It won't be that op. Some on the top of my head is the miter, tysis, mutalist cernos.

Edit: pox, twin basolk, lacera

Edited August 9, 2018 by Exitsignn

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

I agree with this, don't think it would be unbalanced at all because of how slim the chances would be of getting that second proc. Just a small and entirely logical bonus for status builds. 

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

Getting sick of these double posts, nowt wrong with my internet. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by (PS4)NachoZissou

[Knowmad762]

5 hours ago, Exitsignn said:

For example, 125% status chance means that you have a 100% chance to proc a status and a 25% chance to proc an additional status.

This doesn't even make sense, though. How does this work for status procs that are impossible to stack by their very nature? So if I have a 200% status weapon that does only radiation damage, one shot will instantly proc the rad confusion effect and the second bonus proc is totally wasted because you can't make enemies any more confused. It is binary; either they have one stack or they have none.

Of the 14 possible status effects, only 4 can stack multiple instances (slash/toxin/gas/corrosive). So these 4 will benefit greatly from your proposal, while the other 10 are completely unaffected; how is that even remotely balanced? And with slash damage already being the reigning king of damage, your proposal will only make it more broken than it already is, and that will only reinforce the slash damage meta which is pretty terrible for the game overall.

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

16 minutes ago, Knowmad762 said:

This doesn't even make sense, though. How does this work for status procs that are impossible to stack by their very nature? So if I have a 200% status weapon that does only radiation damage, one shot will instantly proc the rad confusion effect and the second bonus proc is totally wasted because you can't make enemies any more confused. It is binary; either they have one stack or they have none.

Of the 14 possible status effects, only 4 can stack multiple instances (slash/toxin/gas/corrosive). So these 4 will benefit greatly from your proposal, while the other 10 are completely unaffected; how is that even remotely balanced? And with slash damage already being the reigning king of damage, your proposal will only make it more broken than it already is, and that will only reinforce the slash damage meta which is pretty terrible for the game overall.

It wouldn't exactly be impossible to tweak it for balance would it. Let's say the second radiation proc doubles the duration and the second slash proc provides half the damage of the first. Or some variation thereof. Whatever works to balance it and give weaker status effects a boost. 

[Knowmad762]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

It wouldn't exactly be impossible to tweak it for balance would it. Let's say the second radiation proc doubles the duration and the second slash proc provides half the damage of the first. Or some variation thereof. Whatever works to balance it and give weaker status effects a boost.  

I have no idea how you would balance this fairly. A second slash proc, even at half damage, still has massive value: the enemy dies objectively faster (death being the ultimate CC), more of your damage is bypassing armor and shields, and your weapon's ammo efficiency increases notably with more overall damage done per shot.

A double duration radiation proc has incredibly little value. The base duration is 12 seconds, so a double proc would increase that to 24 seconds; how often do enemies, that you are actively fighting, remain alive for anywhere near 24 seconds? Chances are that the enemy is killed long before that, or a later consecutive instance of the rad proc was applied to refresh the duration, making the double duration proc pretty useless.

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

1 minute ago, Knowmad762 said:

I have no idea how you would balance this fairly. A second slash proc, even at half damage, still has massive value: the enemy dies objectively faster (death being the ultimate CC), more of your damage is bypassing armor and shields, and your weapon's ammo efficiency increases notably with more overall damage done per shot.

A double duration radiation proc has incredibly little value. The base duration is 12 seconds, so a double proc would increase that to 24 seconds; how often do enemies, that you are actively fighting, remain alive for anywhere near 24 seconds? Chances are that the enemy is killed long before that, or a later consecutive instance of the rad proc was applied to refresh the duration, making the double duration proc pretty useless.

Ok then if that's not balanced enough then how about the second slash proc deals a quarter damage of the first, or an eighth and the second radiation proc doubles the damage that the affected enemy does. 

Don't want to nitpick about hypothetical details but the point is that with a bit of thought it could be a legitimate feature and could have the additional benefit of bringing the less useful statuses up to par with the better ones without having to change how they currently work. 

[Atsia]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

Ok then if that's not balanced enough then how about the second slash proc deals a quarter damage of the first, or an eighth and the second radiation proc doubles the damage that the affected enemy does. 

Don't want to nitpick about hypothetical details but the point is that with a bit of thought it could be a legitimate feature and could have the additional benefit of bringing the less useful statuses up to par with the better ones without having to change how they currently work. 

The issue is that it would require heavy changes in how proc work to not make Slash/Toxin/Gas completely unbalanced. Letting those proc again at any worthwhile value is gonna be broken in almost every instance.

[Knowmad762]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

it could be a legitimate feature and could have the additional benefit of bringing the less useful statuses up to par with the better ones without having to change how they currently work. 

I disagree completely. This could only be a legitimate feature after they rework status proc effects completely. If they do not, I see no way that the currently strong statuses (slash/toxin/corrosive) will only get stronger, while the weaker statuses (magnetic/puncture/impact) will be pushed even further into obscurity.

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

6 minutes ago, Atsia said:

The issue is that it would require heavy changes in how proc work to not make Slash/Toxin/Gas completely unbalanced. Letting those proc again at any worthwhile value is gonna be broken in almost every instance.

Why would it? If you're that worried about DE's ability to balance it then let's say that slash, toxin and gas get little to no benefit from a double proc. 

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

1 minute ago, Knowmad762 said:

I disagree completely. This could only be a legitimate feature after they rework status proc effects completely. If they do not, I see no way that the currently strong statuses (slash/toxin/corrosive) will only get stronger, while the weaker statuses (magnetic/puncture/impact) will be pushed even further into obscurity.

You lack imagination then. As I said above they could easily make it so the strong statuses get very little benefit from a second proc and the weak statuses get a boost to bring them up to par. It's a good opportunity to bring balance back to status effects but yes it wouldn't work if you just literally multiplied every effect by two because statuses like slash would become too powerful. 

[Atsia]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

Why would it? If you're that worried about DE's ability to balance it then let's say that slash, toxin and gas get little to no benefit from a double proc. 

Because those are the only status' that would REALLY benefit from being able to double proc. Magnetic would still be lackluster and and Blast would only be more annoying. It also does nothing worthwhile enough for Puncture, Impact, and Radiation. I could work for Corrosive and Viral, but would lead to those 2 being the "meta" for any 100% status weapon. which has it bordering the line of complete overpowered. As I and Knowmad said, they would have to make some heavy changes to how status procs work and what they do to make all of them worthwhile, and then they other types may still not be used just because of how damage and resistances work.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Atsia

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

1 minute ago, Atsia said:

Because those are the only status' that REALLY benefit from being able to double proc. Magnetic would still be lackluster and and Blast would only be more annoying. It also does nothing worthwhile enough for Puncture, Impact, and Radiation. I could work for Corrosive and Viral, but would lead to those 2 being the "meta" for any 100% status weapon. which has it bordering the line of complete overpowered. As I and Knowmad said, they would have to make some heavy changes to how status procs work and what they do to make all of them worthwhile.

Don't really know what to say to you to explain myself further, if you can't think of any way whatsoever that the lesser statuses could receive a boost from a second proc that would bring them up to par, as long as the stronger ones didn't get any significant boost, then I don't know what to say.

Just to make one last attempt though, we can agree that Magnetic is pretty useless and this is what it does: Magnetic damage's status effect is Disrupt, which reduces the target's current shields and maximum shield capacity by 75% for 4 seconds.

How about the second proc reduces it by 100% and a third proc permanently destroys the shields of the target and every enemy in a ten metre radius. I hope you get the point. Bearing in mind that a third corrosive proc would do very little considering how effective it currently is. 

[Knowmad762]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

but yes it wouldn't work if you just literally multiplied every effect by two because statuses like slash would become too powerful. 

This is what the OP suggested, so really we are in agreement that their simple proposal does not work. The mechanics of orange and red crits are very simple, further multiplications of the base damage. Doubling or tripling the effect of 14 unique status mechanics is far more complicated, so comparing the two is somewhat laughable.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

How about the second proc reduces it by 100% and a third proc permanently destroys the shields of the target and every enemy in a ten metre radius.

This change, along with your earlier change to radiation, fundamentally changes how the status procs work. (Also, I still would not build for magnetic with this change: why build to disrupt shields, when toxin damage bypasses shields completely and is still useful against unshielded enemies as well?). So again, you are in agreement that the original proposal will only work after a fundamental change to how status works. I am all for a discussion about how to fundamentally change and rebalance the various status proc effects, but that is a whole other discussion well outside the scope of the OP proposal.

[TheChaotic1]

Why not just have it be a different proc

[Knowmad762]

2 hours ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Why not just have it be a different proc

How does this work for weapons that only do a single damage type for whatever reason? Say I build my Amprex for over 100% status, but I keep it dealing only Radiation damage. If I get a double radiation proc, the second one is wasted because you can't have two instances of rad status on one enemy, just a single instance that gets refreshed over and over.

Unless you mean just another random proc that is not on the weapon at all. This seems strange and potentially really annoying; say I'm trying for headshots and a random blast damage proc knocks a bunch of enemies down, when I don't even have any blast damage on my weapon at all.

[Atsia]

4 hours ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

Don't really know what to say to you to explain myself further, if you can't think of any way whatsoever that the lesser statuses could receive a boost from a second proc that would bring them to par, as long as the stronger ones didn't get any significant boost, then I don't know what to say.

Just to make one last attempt though, we can agree that Magnetic is pretty useless and this is what it does: Magnetic damage's status effect is Disrupt, which reduces the target's current shields and maximum shield capacity by 75% for 4 seconds.

How about the second proc reduces it by 100% and a third proc permanently destroys the shields of the target and every enemy in a ten metre radius. I hope you get the point. Bearing in mind that a third corrosive proc would do very little considering how effective it currently is. 

As was said, that still doesn't make Magnetic any worthwhile, it would still only be good against 1 of 3 factions, and would still be inferior l.

[Signs]

On 2018-08-09 at 6:44 PM, Knowmad762 said:

This doesn't even make sense, though. How does this work for status procs that are impossible to stack by their very nature? So if I have a 200% status weapon that does only radiation damage, one shot will instantly proc the rad confusion effect and the second bonus proc is totally wasted because you can't make enemies any more confused. It is binary; either they have one stack or they have none.

Of the 14 possible status effects, only 4 can stack multiple instances (slash/toxin/gas/corrosive). So these 4 will benefit greatly from your proposal, while the other 10 are completely unaffected; how is that even remotely balanced? And with slash damage already being the reigning king of damage, your proposal will only make it more broken than it already is, and that will only reinforce the slash damage meta which is pretty terrible for the game overall.

This is already an issue within the game. My "another status proc proposal" has nothing to do with multiple useless procs. Currently, tigris prime procs more radiation and viral than I could ever need with one shot. This is a flaw in the status proc system, not my proposal.

[Knowmad762]

18 hours ago, -Signs- said:

This is already an issue within the game. My "another status proc proposal" has nothing to do with multiple useless procs. Currently, tigris prime procs more radiation and viral than I could ever need with one shot. This is a flaw in the status proc system, not my proposal.

If you do not address the multiple useless procs, your proposal will be completely (and very rightfully) ignored. If you try to implement a over 100% double proc with the current status system, 4 statuses get stronger while 10 others are not affected at all, which annihilates any resemblance of balance and only hurts the game.

You're trying to compare crit chance and status chance like they're the same thing, but you might as well be comparing apples to algebra. Crit is simple. Crit does extra damage in all circumstances always. More crit chance equals more of that increased damage. Status is complicated. Status might do extra damage, or it may alter an enemy's actions or behaviors, or both, with 14 variations therein. More status chance doesn't always equal a greater effect because some enemy alteration effects simply cannot be made greater.

I agree that having over 100% status could certainly have some form of benefit, but a simple double proc mechanic is absolutely not the solution. Unless the status system gets completely reworked first, but that is a huge undertaking with its own set of risks.