Issues and Feedback Regarding Charge-Up Abilities

[ChromeKat]

 

As of Hydroid's revisit in Update 21.4.0, DE has implemented a new charging system on for his Tempest Barrage, giving more damage and duration at the cost of double energy. His Tentacle Swarm also grants bonus tentacles and range upon charging with double the energy cost

Then, in Update 22.12, Ember received the charge mechanic on her Fireball for more damage and radius but with more energy to cast. Zephyr also received a charge-up mechanic to allow her to hover in the air.

Recently, Vauban also had the charge mechanic added to his Tesla, giving more damage and status chance when charged.

However, as smart as an idea of charging mechanics are there are a few issues regarding abilities needing to charge up:-

1. Charge mechanics are slow and clunky in actual gameplay

A normal ability needing charge-ups is good for increasing an ability's potential at the cost of time needed to charge it up. However, having a base 2.5 seconds to fully charge an ability is slow and clunky in practice. As Warframe is a fast-paced shooter game, having to hold down an ability button for 2.5 seconds to use its full effects is too slow for a quick handed ability.

While this can be sped up with casting speed mods like Natural Talent, using it only drops certain abilities down to roughly 2 seconds, which is still extremely slow especially when Natural Talent supposedly should make the charge time 50% faster. Certain abilities have a noticeably faster charge time with Natural Talent, like Tentacle Swarm, while other abilities see insignificant to no changes in their casting speed, such as Tesla and Fireball. Having Natural Talent itself only reduce the charge time to only 0.5 seconds is not enough.

To show you an example of how Natural Talent makes nearly zero differences in charge up abilities, I've made a video to show it:

2. Charge mechanics make cheap abilities expensive with half-expected potency

Most charge mechanics grant double potency for an ability at the expense of double energy. However, the double potency is often insignificant in terms of rewarded potency for a slow and clunky charge time. Since most charge-up abilities cost a base 25 energy being 1st abilities, a charge-up would make them cost 50 energy instead of 25.

An example being Tesla, for double energy cost charging up for double the damage is irrelevant as Tesla itself only has base 150 damage. Doubling that damage output brings it to 300 damage, which is still mediocre. With multiple Power Strength mods, you can bring Tesla up to roughly 1200 damage per full charge, and it is still an insignificant damage boost in low levels for that massive amount of investment. While the boosted Status Chance is a good addition, the base ability should not have a 10% fixed Status Chance which only works if you charge up.

Another example being Hydroid's Tempest Barrage, which doubles damage and duration at the expense of double energy costs. Tempest Barrage itself only does 150 Impact damage unmodded. Charging it for 450 damage per salvo is still not gonna make the ability better in terms of damage past level 45. Now, with Tempest Barrage fully invested into Power Strength, it will deal roughly 600 damage uncharged and only 1200 damage on full charge. The tripled charged damage itself is still insignificant past level 50-60, and past level 40 for armored Grineer. The boosted duration is nice for the added crowd control, but once again this is only half a benefit for double the energy cost.

3. Charge mechanics are an indirect band-aid buff for mediocre abilities

As of this thread, most of the issues regarding charge ups are how they inhibit cheap spammable abilities. Charge ups are indeed a smart way to make sure you have to charge to gain more potency at the expense of spamming an ability. However, as in conjunction to charge up being slow and clunky for 2.5 seconds this also means that mediocre abilities like Fireball and Tesla needs to be charged up to maximize their potential. 

Tesla has to be charged up for a 100% status chance, while an uncharged Tesla only gains 10% base status chance, which cannot be modded. Fireball itself needs 2.5 seconds to double the napalm radius, but the base ability only having a base uncharged 3m napalm radius leaves it still mediocre outside of single target heat procs. 

While having charge mechanics is good to make an ability more powerful at the expense of time and energy, it should not be seen as an excuse to leave bad abilities at where they are. A more prominent example being Tesla, the status chance and damage should not be left at its mediocre state uncharged and slapping it with a charge mechanic does not automatically make it a huge buff.

 

Feedback on Charge Up Issues:

As stated, this part isn't about completely asking DE to remove the charge up mechanics from the game. Charge up abilities, when done right can offer more potency to an ability but with less spammability. As such, here are some changes DE can add to allow charged abilities to remain fluid in the flow of a fast paced action shoot and loot game:-

1. Reduce charge times from 2.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Holding an ability button down for 2.5 seconds is too much, not even pre-reworked Crush had this long of a cast time, on top of a base ability's charge time. Tentacle Swarm and Zephyr's Tail Wind hover both lock you in a charge up animation for 2.5 seconds until it is fully charged. Having to also use Natural Talent to speed up the charge time is also another problem, as Natural Talent is inconsistent in charge up abilities.

2. Charged up abilities to only cost +50% more of their modded ability cost. As stated in the 2nd problem regarding charge ups, charged abilities cost double their modded energy cost for minor and insignificant potentials. While modding for efficiency is a thing, yes, but if the abilities are to remain unchanged this way then making them cost 1.5x more is still a minor price to pay for charging but the benefits will not be feeling as insignificant before.

3. Buff the base abilities and make charging them add more potency from said buff. This is more in line with abilities right now having mediocre damage/utility/benefits when charged. As such, I will list down the abilities and some QoLs or buffs needed:-

Ember:

Fireball:-

• Have the base radius of the napalm area of effect increased from 5m to 6m
• Reduce cost of full charge from 50 to 35 energy

Hydroid:

Tempest Barrage:-

• Charging it increases the barrage area up to 15m/Charging it increases the number of salvos by 2x on top of of the triple damage buff on charge up.
• Increase base duration up to 6 seconds from 5 seconds.
• Reduce cost of full charge from 50 to 40 energy

Vauban:

Tesla:-

• Increase the status chance from 10% to 30%
• On charged Teslas, allows them to shock 2/3 enemies at each charge, along with increased status chance.
• Reduce cost of full charge from 50 to 35 energy

 

With some of these changes, I do hope that they allow charge up abilities to see more potency and fit in with the fast paced shooting of Warframe, and allowing for abilities to be more potent at the cost of time and energy spent to charge them.

With these in mind, I do hope that the changes to charging mechanics would be reconsidered for changes and Quality of Life fixes one day.

If anyone else has any suggestions to help improve charged abilities, feel free to reply below for suggested improvements and feedback on what can be done to help improve it.

Edited August 10, 2018 by 4holes
Added a video showing charge up with Natural Talent

[Buzkyl]

The main issue with Charging abilities is that the investment made in charging the skill is rarely worth the output.

"Charging" skills should be looked at on a case by case basis to determine what benefits/energy tradeoffs are appropriate. Flat double energy cost for double damage (when most deal poor damage regardless) makes little sense. The charge up benefit should be something that builds on an already good skill. 

• Hydroid does not care about damage but if charging boosted AoE of his salvos then it would be a great cost vs reward.
• Tesla does not need more damage, but instead the ability to instead affect multiple foes in AoE on charge.
• Ember arguably is the only "more damage more AoE" charge skill that make sense and is in theme with her play style.

Zephyr enabling hovering on a charge tailwind and Hydroid's ultimate summoning more tentacles are examples of charge skills done right as the benefit is themed with the kit and the skill.

 

Overall I agree with the OP so +1 to you.

[nameomnz]

I do rather have no charge to use the full potential of the ability.

If however I have to charge them then I expect more than 3x the duration/range/damage at worst or secondary function like Gara's Shattered Lash at best.

[Anomandarys]

My biggest gripe with charging abilities is that, by the time you're done charging, your teammates have usually already killed many, if not all, of the enemies you were trying to target.

[Julian_Skies]

1 hour ago, Anomandarys said:

My biggest gripe with charging abilities is that, by the time you're done charging, your teammates have usually already killed many, if not all, of the enemies you were trying to target.

Tbh, unless you're playing solo, by the time you're found an enemy your teammates have already killed them all.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Disappointed Zephyrs useless hover charge wasn't mentioned.

Edited August 10, 2018 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[ChromeKat]

1 hour ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Disappointed Zephyrs useless hover charge wasn't mentioned.

Didn't mention it since the Tail Wind charge changes would probably be just lower charge time and it provides a decent benefit for airborne combat anyways even if its a gimmick. It also doesnt cost 50 energy to cast so its okayish.

Maybe some slow movements while hovering would be good QoL, but I feel thats more considered for a frame qol and rework thread. Apologies for not putting it up anyways.

[Azvalk]

Well .. I did not think there was so much to say about charged abilities.. '-'
What I have to say personally is much simpler.

The charged abilities are a good thing, a good idea, but as they are currently in the game, they are not fun to use.
In my suggestions for influencing the work in progress of Revenant for example, I proposed that all his abilities have a charged version as well.
That's how much I like the idea.
But when I talk about charged abilities, I want something fast, like an opticor shot, no more.
Warframe is a game about speed and dynamism..
I imagined very well use charged abilities while we run, we jump, something really fluid and in rhythm with the game...
At present, Vauban literally has time to die 3 times while he charges Tesla .. and I do not even speak of others ..

Frankly, we have 4 powers.. (equinox has a little more ..)
Different versions of abilities as a charged ability, would solve a lot of problems of some warframes, bringing them the versatility they sometimes miss just a little bit.
The kind of little things that pushes people to ask for rework ..

[Waizard13]

My main issue is that I am a controller player (Wrist problems prevent me from using keyboard and mouse) and the customization simply is not good enough to be able to charge while aiming and moving, I already have a solution which I implement in many other games with charging skills (Dragons dogma or the witcher) consisting of using R1+face button to activate/select skill then LETTING GO OF FACE BUTTON BUT HOLD R1 and keep the skill charging this way, Warframe simply makes you fire the skill as soon as you let the face button go despite not being any conflict with any other command, despite the fact that this setup allows you to hold a charge on R1 while aiming and walking to position yourself. I hope a developer can see this or it gains enough support from the other players because it would help many controller users as well as players on platforms such as ps4 and xbox.

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

I haven't read anything in this topic.

That being said, 

Any charged ability, especially for that long is a waste of an ability.