Preliminary Frost Testing

[Liverslices]

To those who didnt see the Frost changes:

Using a combination of ideas from the community and discussions between dev, Frost’s Snowglobe has changed. The changes are:

-  Snowglobe’s health is now affected by a Warframe’s Armor value.
- There is now a temporary invulnerability duration determined by the rank of a given Snowglobe Mod.
-  Snowglobe’s health is increased by the amount of damage received in the “Invulnerability Duration” window.

The numerical details are as follows:  

Unranked Snowglobe: Health = 1500 + Invulnerability Duration = 1 second

Rank 1 Snowglobe: Health = 2500 + Invulnerability Duration = 2 seconds

Rank 2 Snowglobe: Health = 3000 + Invulnerability Duration = 3 seconds

Rank 3 Snowglobe: Health = 3500 + Invulnerability Duration = 4 seconds

Snowglobe Health = Health + (Armor x 5)

These improvements are subject to change, let us know what you think!

 

A clan mate (Crusifiction) and I were talking earlier today, and we were wondering about Frost's changes. We decided that there were a few things that were unclear about his changes, so we decided to test them out. 

 

During our tests, Crusificition used a Latron Prime with Serration and Heavy Caliber(both rank 10). Note that we did not use split chamber due to the 10% uncertainty. It is true that crits on the latron could throw off our count, but not bad enough to make the tests inconclusive. During our testing, I was using the default frost helmet, not aurora or squall. 

 

Note: We did not test the addition of armor to snow globes health, we are taking DE's word that it works.

 

Control

Using an unmodded, fully ranked snow globe, we dueled in our dojo. Crusifiction had a Latron Prime with damage mods but no split chamber. I cast my snowglobe and after the 4 second invulnerability, he shot 13 times to take it down.

 

Test 1

Using a snow globe modded for +106% Power Strength, we dueled again. This time, after the 4 seconds ticked away, it took Crusifiction 24 shots to take down the snow globe

 

Test 2

Using an unmodded snow globe, I cast the globe and then Crusifiction immediately shot the globe two times before the 4 seconds of invulnerability were gone. Then he shot the shield down, taking 15 shots.

 

Test 3

The most basic test, just to be certian. A Frost cannot destroy his own snow globe. We tested to see if you could increase the health of your own snow globe by shooting it in the first 4 seconds. To do this I cast my unmodded snow globe, and then ran out and shot it twice with my Paris Prime(crit 100%). After that Crusifiction took the globe down with the same 13 shots.

 

EDIT: Test 4

Due to popular demand, I tested Duration mods on snow globe to see if the 4 seconds of invulnerability were effected. I added a total of +120% to Duration, and tested. Unfortunately this does not affect the 4 seconds. 

 

Note: During the first 4 seconds of snow globe, the snow globe pulses rapidly, however (as of 2:00 PM 3/13) I have encountered the bug that only lets this pulsing be seen by the host. The fading of the globe towards the end of the health has the same bug.

 

 

 

So what did these show? A few things that are useful:

 

1.  Power Strength still does effect snow globe health, just as before.

2.  The 4 seconds of invulnerability add ~100% of damage directly to health of snow globe.

3.  A frost cannot use #2 to increase snow globes health by shooting his own globe.

 

This isn't ground breaking, earth shattering news, but it is useful.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Liverslices

[Archistopheles]

All data is appreciated.

 

I feel like Snow Globe is in a good place now.

[ChaoticVice777]

Well, how about Power Duration? Does increasing it affect the invincibility duration? I'm pretty sure it does affect how long the ability lasts though...

[Hybridon]

Thanks, Ive been trying to find out all day if Strength mods still affected Snow Globe, this has proven to be really useful.

[Entari0]

SCIENCE!!!!

 

Seriously though, Good job testing! I would also like to know if duration mods affect the invulnerability time, and if it is still duration/strength based, that is, does it go down after a certain time, being shot at or otherwise?

[ChaoticVice777]

SCIENCE!!!!

 

Seriously though, Good job testing! I would also like to know if duration mods affect the invulnerability time, and if it is still duration/strength based, that is, does it go down after a certain time, being shot at or otherwise?

 

From my own testing, Snow Globe still has its original base duration of 30 seconds, which is affected by mods; this means that the ability will disappear regardless of any damage taken.

[Liverslices]

SCIENCE!!!!

 

Seriously though, Good job testing! I would also like to know if duration mods affect the invulnerability time, and if it is still duration/strength based, that is, does it go down after a certain time, being shot at or otherwise?

 

Well, how about Power Duration? Does increasing it affect the invincibility duration? I'm pretty sure it does affect how long the ability lasts though...

Tested. added Test 4

[00zau]

Invincible duration is unaffected by mods? Fleeting globes FTW!

[Monolake]

I still have questions how the armor works, by your tests its applied as usually, numbers match very closely (3500 hp = 5700 with 190 armor,  Latron P with those mods does ~5800 damage in 13 shots, could vary depending on crits) 

Then why did the patch notes said +(armor x 5).  Also in my test vs t3 heavies modding for power worked better than modding for armor, too tired to calculate that now. Anyway I like the change with first seconds, cudos to VKhaun, afaik  he came with that idea originally.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Monolake

[egregiousRac]

I still have questions how the armor works, by your tests its applied as usually, numbers match very closely (3500 hp = 5700 with 190 armor,  Latron P with those mods does ~5800 damage in 13 shots, could vary depending on crits) 

Then why did the patch notes said +(armor x 5).  Also in my test vs t3 heavies modding for power worked better than modding for armor, too tired to calculate that now. Anyway I like the change with first seconds, cudos to VKhaun, afaik  he came with that idea originally.

 

How I understand it, the snowglobe doesn't get armor, it gets extra health based on your armor. 

[gell]

Thanks, I love empirical test results. Snow Globe is in a better spot now, although it will still be OP against lower levels and pop fast on higher levels.

 

But what about time? How long does Snow Globe last? Well...

 

The maximum life of a maxed Snow Globe, on high level content, looks to be about 12.5 seconds. Better than it popping after 3 seconds like I've seen recently, but if that's usable is still up in the air. That's good for a safe revive, at least (not counting explosives or rail moas but that's always been true). 12.5 seconds as a general minimum is probably acceptable to some folks.

 

Calculation: 4 seconds of invuln + Snow Globe's 3500 HP + armor x 5 + health gained during 4 seconds of invuln = its minimum, and maximum life on high level content.

 

On high levels (I'm talking level 38 guys, not some crazy high level of Defense), I've seen 3500 HP Snow Globes pop in 2-3 seconds, so we'll give it 3 seconds. That armor on a base level 30 Frost is 150x5 = 750, or doubled with Steel Fiber is 1600, so another 1.5 seconds at most. 4 seconds of heavy fire during invuln, where the heavy fire will likely continue after invuln dies, buys exactly 4 seconds of extra health. The total is 4 (invuln) + 3 + 1.5 + 4 = 12.5.

 

Is 12.5 seconds on high level content good enough for you? This isn't a leading question, I'm curious. For me, it's usable, but I don't like the idea that Snow Globe is still extremely OP for low levels and high levels, when you really need it, barely lasts 12.5 seconds.

 

Low levels: 30 seconds + duration mods (nothing can do enough damage to it)

Mid levels: 20-30 seconds + duration mods (if you're actively killing heavy hitters, the globe could last the entire duration)

High levels: 12.5 seconds (there's no way the duration will matter, it's all about the globe's HP)

Super high levels (many players never care to go this high in Defense/Survival/Interception): maybe 8 seconds (base HP/armor HP doesn't even matter at this point, only the 4 secs of invuln and ~4 seconds of HP it gained under heavy fire. At a point where leaving the snow globe would mean instant death for most frames, Frost won't be used for these missions)

[Liverslices]

How I understand it, the snowglobe doesn't get armor, it gets extra health based on your armor. 

Correct, to my understanding

 

Thanks, I love empirical test results. Snow Globe is in a better spot now, although it will still be OP against lower levels and pop fast on higher levels.

 

But what about time? How long does Snow Globe last? Well...

 

The maximum life of a maxed Snow Globe, on high level content, looks to be about 12.5 seconds. Better than it popping after 3 seconds like I've seen recently, but if that's usable is still up in the air. That's good for a safe revive, at least (not counting explosives or rail moas but that's always been true). 12.5 seconds as a general minimum is probably acceptable to some folks.

 

Calculation: 4 seconds of invuln + Snow Globe's 3500 HP + armor x 5 + health gained during 4 seconds of invuln = its minimum, and maximum life on high level content.

 

On high levels (I'm talking level 38 guys, not some crazy high level of Defense), I've seen 3500 HP Snow Globes pop in 2-3 seconds, so we'll give it 3 seconds. That armor on a base level 30 Frost is 150x5 = 750, or doubled with Steel Fiber is 1600, so another 1.5 seconds at most. 4 seconds of heavy fire during invuln, where the heavy fire will likely continue after invuln dies, buys exactly 4 seconds of extra health. The total is 4 (invuln) + 3 + 1.5 + 4 = 12.5.

 

Is 12.5 seconds on high level content good enough for you? This isn't a leading question, I'm curious. For me, it's usable, but I don't like the idea that Snow Globe is still extremely OP for low levels and high levels, when you really need it, barely lasts 12.5 seconds.

 

Low levels: 30 seconds + duration mods (nothing can do enough damage to it)

Mid levels: 20-30 seconds + duration mods (if you're actively killing heavy hitters, the globe could last the entire duration)

High levels: 12.5 seconds (there's no way the duration will matter, it's all about the globe's HP)

Super high levels (many players never care to go this high in Defense/Survival/Interception): maybe 8 seconds (base HP/armor HP doesn't even matter at this point, only the 4 secs of invuln and ~4 seconds of HP it gained under heavy fire. At a point where leaving the snow globe would mean instant death for most frames, Frost won't be used for these missions)

Is it usable? Yes. Its not suppose to be easy defending against lvl 38 enemies.

 

 

And if it is popping quickly, then just pay attention and cast another one, or multiples.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Liverslices

[Paradoxbomb]

So players can't fuel the globe's health with their own weapons? That's a shame, it could've been like the Absorb mechanic where both player and enemy damage can make it stronger.

 

Then again I guess that wouldn't make much sense either: "Quick everyone, start shooting at our own defenses!"

[gell]

I think it's usable, but DE is looking for feedback on it, so I would also suggest ways for Frost (or teammates) to increase its health. I still like the idea of using cold damage to increase its health.

 

They could also do a thing where if enemies hit it with cold damage, the globe gains 4x health from them, or levels where ice reduces your shields, the globe gains power. It would be interesting.

 

And of course I'd cast another if the first popped. Multiple globes in one spot is a waste of globes though, as they won't really get all the health from getting hit during the 4 second invuln window. Plus, who has that much energy they could keep casting globes? I guess if you use Fleeting Expertise along with Streamline, it only costs 13 energy, and even with reduced duration from Fleeting Expertise, it's probably a good deal on high levels....

[Liverslices]

I think it's usable, but DE is looking for feedback on it, so I would also suggest ways for Frost (or teammates) to increase its health. I still like the idea of using cold damage to increase its health.

 

They could also do a thing where if enemies hit it with cold damage, the globe gains 4x health from them, or levels where ice reduces your shields, the globe gains power. It would be interesting.

 

And of course I'd cast another if the first popped. Multiple globes in one spot is a waste of globes though, as they won't really get all the health from getting hit during the 4 second invuln window. Plus, who has that much energy they could keep casting globes? I guess if you use Fleeting Expertise along with Streamline, it only costs 13 energy, and even with reduced duration from Fleeting Expertise, it's probably a good deal on high levels....

Honestly I almost always have fleeting on. Yeah it makes them pop quicker, but you can cast so many more than before.

[PsycloneM]

Nice testing. Thanks.

 

I'm curious to know if power strength has any effect on the armor multiplier. If you decide to test further, I think that might be worth looking into.

[gamefreak9149]

Nice work on all the testing.

[ChaoticVice777]

Tested. added Test 4

 

Thank you very much! Given such results, I guess I will have to not focus on Power Duration. Instead, I'll use the three/four abilities and focus on Power Strength and Efficiency. That translates to Freeze(?), Ice Wave, Snow Globe, and Avalanche along with Redirection, Steel Fiber, Intensify, Blind Rage, Fleeting Expertise, and Streamline/Flow. If Freeze is removed, add both Streamline and Flow.

[Liverslices]

Nice testing. Thanks.

 

I'm curious to know if power strength has any effect on the armor multiplier. If you decide to test further, I think that might be worth looking into.

My assumption is no. Increasing the multiplier would most likely make it too strong.