ninosan Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) After several thought .. There are two types of people who play Mag: - There are people who love old pull because it pulls everything to Mag.(they love to be surrounded, prolly for melee reason) - There are people who hate the old pull because it pulls everything to Mag. (they hate to be surrounded, "no group hug pl0x"). .... and there are people who just love to see things flying ... dont worry, i'll get to that as well. one possible solution: let the player choose where to pull. Make it similar to vauban's vortex. Shoot a projectile in a straight direction and pull anything within pull radius (25m) into that location ONCE (the old school way, but you have target location). Consider it like your ogris bullet (super fast one or instant), except that it can only fly certain distance or until an object is blocking it and the explosion is the actual pull. lets put it into mods description: "Magnitize a location to create magnetic force that pulls the enemy toward that location and stunning them" The actual specs: - Initial target distance: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 meters - Pull radius of the targeted location: 15 / 20 / 22 / 25 meters - Damage: 15 / 30 / 55 / 80 damage , ignore armor. (yeah yeah i know some ppl want some OP damage , but lets argue about this on separate issue) Consider the following "great floor diagram with high-precision-made-to-scale of xini" Details of FAQ is on the post #4: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/114260-idea-for-mag-pull/?p=1326852 After all: With full command of surrounding magnetic energy, MAG is an expert at enemy manipulation. (Source from https://warframe.com/game/warframes) Yep, Mag is an expert with full command of surrounding magnetic energy (not random throwing or random aiming). If you LIKE on how this works (EXCLUDING THE DAMAGE ASPECT ... lets have another debate on different post for that), please: Comments or further concerns are welcome (again DONT LEAVE COMMENTS ON THE DAMAGE. I rather put that on separate issue for damage balancing) Let out voice be heard ... Have fun ! Edited September 28, 2013 by ninosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninosan Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Oh if you don't like the idea, and post a comment on why or how you dont like it. And please offer your possible solution as well in that case. again, please disregard the damage for the time being. Edited September 28, 2013 by ninosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playur Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 TL;DR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninosan Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the input, I'll separate the Questions here (some details) Question: Q: What if i aim the floor while pulling ? A: it will pull all of the enemies within the Pull radius into that floor. Q: What if I aim the clear blue sky ? A: it will pin a location at the clear blue sky within the initial target distance and pull the enemies within the pull radius to that location Q: What if I aim the clear blue sky and my fellow Excalibur jumped and block my view ? A: it will pin that location where the initial distance is blocked by Excalibur and pull the enemies within the pull radius to that location. It will work as if you shoot ogris to the sky and Excalibur block the bullet mid air. Q: What if the clear blue sky is blocked by the ceiling ? A: It will pin the ceiling if it is within reach of the initial target (or the mid air) and pull the enemies within the pull radius to that location. Q: What about the Ragdolling effect ?A: It can be applied, however the DE better fix the invincibility frame of the enemies. Currently there is no damage can be dealt to enemy when they are ragdolled (Except for AoE). Q: Why so little damage ? A: It is a tactical skill. It should not even pose any damage. However with this system, it has a very strategic use. Imagine you pull enemies to a location and use ogris ... AWESOME !! Q: What about downed enemies that got pulled ? A: To avoid stun lock of the enemy, downed enemy should stand up right away and have knock down immunity within 3 secs (rhino stomp or any other skill should work just fine). It is a distance lock already, lets be fair. Q: What enemies can you pull ? A: Light , Heavy and Fliers should get pulled equally. Small boss should be pulled half of the distance (they are strong !). Bigger bosses like Lephantis (and Jackal !?) should not be affected. Stationary like the corpus camera or void laser should only be damaged. Q What other amazing stuff can you do with this pin to target pulling system ?A: consider this as well: What if you can pin the target precisely for bullet attractor ?? Instead of bullets flying everywhere to the enemy, It will actually try to target the pinned location (example, Banshee's sonar spot, Head, Leg (for jackal), or pink spot of the Lephantis, etc). Edited September 28, 2013 by ninosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesella Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 As you mentioned, it works too similar to Vortex and at this stage of the game I think it best to keep the abilities as unique as possible. Sure Slash Dash and Rhino Charge are similar but we should try to keep the overlap to the minimum. When thinking of suggestions to improve or modify an ability you should keep the original intent in mind. Throughout the various incarnations of Pull the general theme is there, you are yanking the enemy towards you. Even the current pull's more chaotic effect has the same theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brinie Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 80 damage is useless. Minus well make it do no damage on that point. Would rather it do the damage it does now and people actually use it rather than most people completely forgetting about it and leaving it out of their load outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wynn Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 80 damage is useless. Minus well make it do no damage on that point. Would rather it do the damage it does now and people actually use it rather than most people completely forgetting about it and leaving it out of their load outs. No damage is so much better and have it be utility, Mag isn't a dps frame she always been a Control/Support frame. Right now if there is the right amount of targets Pull is the strongest power in the game. It's dumb to have a non dps frame have a skill that does more damage than most Ultis. Right now playing Mag is brainless you spam Pull and you top damage and kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninosan Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) @Kesella noted, Although I could also consider the range to be static 3 meters in front of Mag maybe ? Technically it is still "Pull to Mag" , just relatively safer distance to deal with the concern of being surrounded by mobs. Well this is more of the general complaints of the old pull system. The risk. Too many people cannot deal with risk or wont deal with risk =.= ... I love the little risk of the old pull , make me think before i spam it. My goal on this post is to give possible solution that will satisfy both parties (risk taker, non risk taker, or those who just love to see things flying) On my other post, is more like Pull_v2 vs Pull_v3 @Brinie AGAIN, PLEASE LEAVE THE DAMAGE ISSUE ON THE SEPARATE MATTER AT THIS POINT !!! I'll LEAVE THE DE TO DECIDE WHAT DAMAGE TO PUT !! I WANT TO FOCUS ON HOW PULL ACTUALLY PULL !! NOT NUKE !! Edited September 28, 2013 by ninosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenggiling Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 this is rather similar to Drag from my post. Warframe Alternatable "prime" Skills There are two types of people who play Mag: - There are people who love old pull because it pulls everything to Mag.(they love to be surrounded, prolly for melee reason) - There are people who hate the old pull because it pulls everything to Mag. (they hate to be surrounded, "no group hug pl0x"). .... and there are people who just love to see things flying ... dont worry, i'll get to that as well. 80 damage is useless. Minus well make it do no damage on that point. Would rather it do the damage it does now and people actually use it rather than most people completely forgetting about it and leaving it out of their load outs. I think it will satisfy both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavelord Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 As a mag player since the beggining, i was wondering this issue too, i liked the utility that pull 1 had, bringing downed allies was an interesting concept, but targeting amidst lots of enemies kept me from using it often, when pull 2 came i notice that i was using pull a lot more in combo with a gram, it helped me a lot while solo, altough i didn´t like that sometime a got stuck in between enemies, pull 3 took me by surprise and at first it felt weird it needed a change in my strategy. Now i mostly use it to free the road in rescue missions, or move enemies away from defense points and i´m sure everyone tries to pull them into chasms. I had been thinking in a new form of pull that resulted similar to yours, to designate a pull point, with a similar targeting to loki´s decoy, but also able to target enemies, so you could target the floor beneath your feet and get a pull 2 effect, target a wall behind you and get sort of a pull 3 effect. Targeting enemies could be use in many ways like targeting a unit so it pulls all adjacent enemies doing some damage as the enemies crush together and let the effect linger for a brief period to form a big cluster of enemies that cannot move or attack, this way you have a big mass of enemies to empty your bullets, or choose an ancient and limit its reach attack, or use the cluster of enemies to seal a gate, or choose a ceiling or wall in a corridor so you may pass by if you are running away or pick a wall with no floor and throw enemies into a chasm. so many ways. thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otenko Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 As mentioned above, I also feel that this idea for pull sounds too similar to vortex. Even though I'd prefer this pull to the one we have currently, I'd much rather have powers avoid becoming homogenized. I still support this idea however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxbomb Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think I had the same idea a while ago, not sure why I never posted it, but I feel like it would make a lot of sense to give us control of where we actually want to pull the enemy instead of the current iteration which just throws them wherever. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter11 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't like this idea at all, because this would turn Pull into Vortex. If DE ever returns Pull to v.2, I'll be a happy Mag player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-Syein Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I want to pull things AWAY from me :( (oh well at least they got toss on the floor) also, if we can change the location where we pull them, for example when mag press pull, the pull will head to your gun's aiming location. So if your gun aim on right, enemies go to right gun aim left, enemies to left, gun at straight distance or above, enemies being pull away gun aim below the ground, enemies got pull closer to mag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverslices Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 After several thought .. There are two types of people who play Mag: - There are people who love old pull because it pulls everything to Mag.(they love to be surrounded, prolly for melee reason) - There are people who hate the old pull because it pulls everything to Mag. (they hate to be surrounded, "no group hug pl0x"). .... and there are people who just love to see things flying ... dont worry, i'll get to that as well. one possible solution: let the player choose where to pull. Make it similar to vauban's vortex. Shoot a projectile in a straight direction and pull anything within pull radius (25m) into that location ONCE (the old school way, but you have target location). Consider it like your ogris bullet (super fast one or instant), except that it can only fly certain distance or until an object is blocking it and the explosion is the actual pull. lets put it into mods description: "Magnitize a location to create magnetic force that pulls the enemy toward that location and stunning them" The actual specs: - Initial target distance: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 meters - Pull radius of the targeted location: 15 / 20 / 22 / 25 meters - Damage: 15 / 30 / 55 / 80 damage , ignore armor. (yeah yeah i know some ppl want some OP damage , but lets argue about this on separate issue) Consider the following "great floor diagram with high-precision-made-to-scale of xini" Details of FAQ is on the post #4: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/114260-idea-for-mag-pull/?p=1326852 After all: With full command of surrounding magnetic energy, MAG is an expert at enemy manipulation. (Source from https://warframe.com/game/warframes) Yep, Mag is an expert with full command of surrounding magnetic energy (not random throwing or random aiming). If you LIKE on how this works (EXCLUDING THE DAMAGE ASPECT ... lets have another debate on different post for that), please: Comments or further concerns are welcome (again DONT LEAVE COMMENTS ON THE DAMAGE. I rather put that on separate issue for damage balancing) Let out voice be heard ... Have fun ! Dislike, and here is why. I have both mag and mag prime, started the game with mag. Now, 10 mastery levels later i still use her. Not because of pull, BA, or crush. I use her for shield polorize. It instantly repleneshes 100% of my 1050 shields and it also creates an instant Molecular Prime. Mag doesnt need pull to be a good frame. I honestly would be just fine with the original pull again. Never the less i do enjoy pull 2.0. If i were to nerf it i would just decrease the spread of it. but we dont need to change mag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-Syein Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Dislike, and here is why. I have both mag and mag prime, started the game with mag. Now, 10 mastery levels later i still use her. Not because of pull, BA, or crush. I use her for shield polorize. It instantly repleneshes 100% of my 1050 shields and it also creates an instant Molecular Prime. Mag doesnt need pull to be a good frame. I honestly would be just fine with the original pull again. Never the less i do enjoy pull 2.0. If i were to nerf it i would just decrease the spread of it. but we dont need to change mag you don't need pull, that's fine. But some people like to use pull and put it in good use. Pull is a very nice ability, it's crowd control. Also, Shield polarize only useful for me mostly vs shield faction, against grineer or infest, I am forced to use other abilitites, pull is one of them. So if you don't use an ability, that doesn't mean other people won't use it. Also, if you don't use pull, you should be fine with pull being change. This thread is about pull, not about changing all of mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kireek_ Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) As mentioned above, I also feel that this idea for pull sounds too similar to vortex. Even though I'd prefer this pull to the one we have currently, I'd much rather have powers avoid becoming &*$$genized. Really DE? 'H omogenized' is blocked? -_- 'H omo' is not a swear, you foolish censors. Right now if there is the right amount of targets Pull is the strongest power in the game. It's dumb to have a non dps frame have a skill that does more damage than most Ultis. How does Pull do more damage than Ults? Do you just mean more total damage rather than per target, because longer range = more targets? Edited January 17, 2014 by _Kireek_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-Syein Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 No damage is so much better and have it be utility, Mag isn't a dps frame she always been a Control/Support frame. Right now if there is the right amount of targets Pull is the strongest power in the game. It's dumb to have a non dps frame have a skill that does more damage than most Ultis. Right now playing Mag is brainless you spam Pull and you top damage and kills. What kind of run are you in. Pull doesn't do that kind of dps. Also, mag is a huge dps frame vs corpus/ shield faction. Her powers is what determine what frame she is, not the other way around. Pull is not the strongest power, you could pull all day on low lvl enemies then obviously she could outdps them, the enemies at that lvl are sooo easy to kill. But her pull stop right there,other ults can still kill more at high lvl, pull's dps stop at mid lvl mobs. So nope, pull can't best any ults. Why don't you play mag with me and spam pull ONLY, while I'm willing to sit on my valkyr (the worst dps frame) ? ps: there are differences between number of kills and amount of dps. Just bring a mag vs grineer/ infest faction, there are tons of other frames useful than mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmthebigman Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 with actual pulling back instead of random ragdoll throwing around. It would be an actual CC again and very helpful for AoE weapons / weapons with punch through I support this, it only got to what it is now by uncreative 12yr olds who wanted an easy skill as usual.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wynn Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The big active Mag thread https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/114146-mags-pull-poll-pool-its-a-poll-for-mags-pull/page-8#entry1923961 Comment from Rebecca this week in said thread, when we brought up that 3 months ago we were told that Pull v2 was coming back This has definitely been ongoing for quite some time - seeing remarks on plainly on what's next for Mag. I think the other frames that need further love are in line next (discussion has been pointing to Banshee), but the state of Mag's Pull will hopefully have comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmthebigman Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Great so they F*** up first and ignore the Mag users... say they gonna change it back but we have to wait for other frames first. like ello simple tweak just put in the old one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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