Nullifiers Are The Most Broken, Badly Designed Enemies Ever

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I have to start out by saying that Nullifiers are completely and utterly broken. They negate your primary means of survivability, they one shot kill you from across the tileset, the formula used to shrink their bubbles when they take damage is completely broken, Their art design is uncreative and bland, they cause massive amounts of rage and hate within the community, and they generally make the game less fun to play. I would like to walk through all of the many, many reasons why Nullifiers need massive amounts of work.

 

#1: They negate abilities that keep you alive

Any Veteran warframe player knows that abilities such as Turbulence, Shatter Shield, Hysteria, etc. that increase your survivability are basically essential for high level content. Then come the Nullifiers. Any positive effect that is keeping you alive is instantly stripped from you as soon as you enter the bubble. This is basically a guaranteed death sentence. Needless to say, this is unreasonably cruel to any player who tries to do any sort of high level void mission, and since Nullifiers frequently spawn on top of you, the game basically kills you if RNGesus doesn't like you enough.

 

Nullifiers may be some conscious effort on DE's part to counter the power of survivability skills or "press 4 to win" ability spam, but creating a horrifically broken, badly designed enemy to do this is completely the wrong way to go about doing this. The feedback forums are flooded with brilliant suggestions as to how to solve these problems. Listen to them. A stupid solution to a difficult problem will only create even more stupid problems.

 

How to solve?

This is one of the more difficult problems to solve, as Nullifiers are supposed to nullify, and any possible fix would also prevent them from nullifying. However, I have been able to come up with a reasonable solution. There should be a short, 1 second delay between entering the bubble and having ability buffs nullified, during which you could exit the bubble or potentially kill the Nullifier. You would still not be able to cast any abilities while in a Nullifier bubble at any time, though. This change would make Nullifiers far less of an unforgiving RNG-hates-you death sentence, but since the delay is extremely short, players are forced to act fast, requiring a degree of skill.

 

#2: They one-shot kill you from ridiculous distances

This problem also has to do with enemy scaling, but the root of the problem is with the Nullifiers' weapon, the Lanka. At high levels, it is easily capable of one-shotting, and as a sniper rifle, they have an extremely long range. This alone would be acceptable, but when forced to deal with the nullifier bubble before being able to stop the Nullifier from shooting at you, "begrudging acceptability" turns into "complete stupidity". Since the bubble often requires a full clip to take down, even after you get through it (with the Nullifier shooting at you all the while) you may be forced to reload, leaving you vulnerable for an instant kill.

 

How to solve?

The solution to this problem is fairly simple: Nullifiers should only be able to shoot targets inside of their bubble, but this restriction would be removed once their bubble goes down. This means that you are not at risk from the instant kill while you're trying to take down the bubble, and that Nullifiers would be sort of "two stage" enemies, where once you take down the bubble, you then deal with the sniper underneath, creating an interesting dynamic in combat. The problem of being left defenseless after using a whole clip on taking down the bubble still exists, but if the third change is made as well, this will be significantly less of a problem.

 

#3: Damage done to their bubbles is not based on actual weapon damage

This issue was called to my attention by this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/373346-nullifiers-bubble-isnt-affected-by-damage-and-heres-proof/?hl=%2Bnullifier+%2Bbubble+%2Bnot+%2Baffected+%2Bby+%2Bdamage

I'll just let Althran take it away.

So yeah, a lot of people are saying 'nullifier's shields are affected by damage now, so quit your whining.'

 

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEE.

 

TRY THIS ON FOR SIZE:  2 FORMA'D, POTATOED VAYKOR MARELOK { VS } TOWER IV NULLIFIER:

NOW HOW ABOUT AN UNFORMA'D, UNPOTATOED, FRESH OFF THE MARKET LEVEL 0 BRATON { VS } ANOTHER TOWER IV NULLIFIER:

No.  Difference.  At.  All.

 

Fix it.

 

Can't use a dread that does 50000 damage, can't use a vaykor marelok that does 10k damage PER SHOT WITH A BLAST AOE, but I can use an unranked Braton that deals 20 damage per shot!

 

CMON!!!!

 

Results: This proves that pellet count doesn't matter, damage doesn't matter, and the only thing left that DOES matter is high RoF.

 

EDIT:

I did not know the actual formula for Nullifier shield shrinkage at the time I created this thread, but now I do, and yes, it is horrendously stupid and broken.

 

Basically, if any one hit to a Nullifier shield is below 100 damage, it will inflict 100 damage to the shield, and if any one hit is above 400 damage, it will inflict 400 damage to the shield. This means that the Dread, which deals several thousand damage per shot on average, will only deal 400 damage per shot to the Nullifier shield.

 

How to fix?

This should be obvious. MAKE NULLIFIER BUBBLES ACTUALLY SHRINK BASED ON WEAPON DAMAGE!!!

 

These are just the basic issues. I have a few more small nitpicks, like how their model is just a slightly modified crewman with no creativity or artistic effort at all, or how every single member of the community dislikes Nullifiers, but these have no real effect on gameplay, so I'll leave them out, at least for now.

Edited February 21, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3
Less rage/profanity, more objectivity when making feedback please.

[TheErebus.]

Everyone hates them. 

I don't hate them. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by TheErebus

[TylerFreeman]

I don't hate them.

 

I despise them with every fiber of my being and righteously rip and tear through these knee-jerks of a so called "support" unit.

[RyojinOrion]

I don't hate them. I actually like them. I think they add in an element of difficulty. What I don't like, however, is when there are a bunch of them spawned at once (See Tactical Alert) or when they happen to also be an Arctic Eximus.

[DazDaSpazz]

What I hate about the most is that they defeat the purpose of arctic eximus units. They shouldn't be able to block bullets. An even better solution would be to remove them entirety and add them as an eximus type, not an enemy type.

[TheErebus.]

What I hate about the most is that they defeat the purpose of arctic eximus units. They shouldn't be able to block bullets. An even better solution would be to remove them entirety and add them as an eximus type, not an enemy type.

If they didn't block bullets, then the whole purpose of them is invalidated. Someone would see them and boom, before they could even do their task they die. It'd make the whole time DE put into them worthless.

[Eternal_Shrine_Maiden]

I don't hate them.

 

I despise them with every fiber of my being and righteously rip and tear through these knee-jerks of a so called "support" unit.

 

Funny you should say that, I always imagine Nullifiers as Hard-Carry + Support that needs no farm

[mistopportunity]

I don't hate them. 

#the-brotherhood-of-unpopular-opnion-fellows-who-dont-wanna-feedback-no-moar-masterrace

I don't hate them either >:D

[DazDaSpazz]

If they didn't block bullets, then the whole purpose of them is invalidated. Someone would see them and boom, before they could even do their task they die. It'd make the whole time DE put into them worthless.

The only reason they should have a shield is if they spawn as an arctic eximus, not for simply existing. By your logic every grineer lancer should be able to cast a fire wave, every prod crewman should be able to drain your energy and every ancient should poison you. Hell, replace every enemy with their eximus counterpart. Is that really what you want?

Edited January 24, 2015 by DazDaSpazz

[armedpoop]

I dont hate them.

 

I feel they are needed enemies. These are the 1st enemies to actually pose a threat to any frame powers that you use. The fact that they actually turn off your frame powers is a GOOD thing. However, I dont think they should be armed with uber powerful sniper rifles.

[AJ90]

I like the Nullifiers, as it adds a bit of challenge to end-game missions, and can encourage people to watch out for their teammates more depending on who's playing what, but I really wish they'd give them a slight nerf, even if it was just replacing their Lanka's with Shotguns, or they could give you a chance to get out of their bubble before your abilities get disabled like you suggested, that would make them a lot less rage-inducing, especially when they spawn on top of you 40 minutes into a T4 survival.

[V0LK]

The thing I hate the most is that damn bubble is too strong. And renders semi-auto and charge weapons even more subpar.

 

Also they are super cheap and brainless way to increase difficulty. Impervious shield plus one shot Lanka - why bother with something interesting, right?

[Cybernetix]

They were made on a knee-jerk reaction as a half assed way to nerf rep farming. Of course they're poorly designed. They're quite literally a giant 'up yours' to the players.

 

With the proper adjustments and tuning they could become enemies that are actually interesting to fight but in their current state they're simply an annoyance.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Cybernetix

[Somedude1000]

I don't necessarily despise them, though Nullifiers while interesting to fight, perhaps weren't the best option DE could have gone with. Instead of focusing on why people spammed abilities and giving them a reason not to do so by providing alternatives, we got a new enemy as an "easy fix"

 

So ask, why do people spam abilities? I would say because most, if not all Tenno have near worthless defensive stats. This would mean at some point, about at ceres or so even stray shots can totally devastate / oneshot you through both your total health and shields. To prevent this, perhaps most players feel like they should try to stop the enemies from being able to even react to them, by spamming abilities and killing them before the enemy fires a single shot. 

 

Eventually the game itself evolved around the idea that players are definitely going for this strategy no matter what, and so we got an enemy that prevents ability spams, more or less, instead of the issue of defensive stats and scaling being reviewed.

[Mickey33]

This needs to have a poll rather than a random "I don't hate them" replies. To the point, I HATE THEM!

[Althran]

What I hate about the most is that they defeat the purpose of arctic eximus units. They shouldn't be able to block bullets. An even better solution would be to remove them entirety and add them as an eximus type, not an enemy type.

 

dear.  god.  no.

 

do you hate humanity sir?

 

you realize that if they were an eximus type

 

no 

faction

is

safe

 

it's bad enough the corpus have this bullcrap, no effin way grineer or infested are gonna get this too

[TheErebus.]

The only reason they should have a shield is if they spawn as an arctic eximus, not for simply existing. 

The prod crewman have one goal, to come close to you and hit you. They are melee oriented and the weaker class, so it is okay for them to fail at their task.

Nullifiers play a bigger role, and to have them become just another Corpus chew toy would just be invalidating their whole reason to exist. 

 

Don't try to make me seem like I want every one to be like the nullifier, not in the slightest.

And I gave you a perfectly valid reason for why they need one.

Edited January 24, 2015 by TheErebus

[Sziklamester]

I hate them by my heart like other enemies so I feel the power to kill those bastards. Those and infested moas makes the game a bit more challenging but sometimes happen crap spawnings and you die before doing anything.

 

A little tweak or buff on frames can solve some problem but I am not really agree with nerf them or put off them. Just better spawns need then you can prepare.

[armedpoop]

They were made on a knee-jerk reaction as a half assed way to nerf rep farming. Of course they're poorly designed. They're quite literally a giant 'up yours' to the players.

 

With the proper adjustments and tuning they could become enemies that are actually interesting to fight but in their current state they're simply an annoyance.

They have nothing to do with rep farming at all. They dont even show up in the 2 main places to farm rep. This is a very baseless assumption. This is one of the only enemies that is really a bullet sponge. Would you rather get another bullet sponge enemy? (The bubble is technically a bullet sponge, but its very easily negated by melee.)

Edited January 24, 2015 by armedpoop

[Althran]

They have nothing to do with rep farming at all. They dont even show up in the 2 main places to farm rep. This is a very baseless assumption. This is one of the only enemies that is really a bullet sponge. Would you rather get another bullet sponge enemy? (The bubble is technically a bullet sponge, but its very easily negated by melee.)

 

they have everything to do with rep farming.  Cerberus?  gone.  Viver?  Before it was infested, also gone.  The whole reasoning for nullifiers to be there was to negate 4 to win.  Which is entirely stupid, because as many players have pointed out, there will always be a loot cave.  The fact that they've stuck around for this long is essentially a middle finger to all players.

[DazDaSpazz]

dear.  god.  no.

 

do you hate humanity sir?

 

you realize that if they were an eximus type

 

no 

faction

is

safe

 

it's bad enough the corpus have this bullcrap, no effin way grineer or infested are gonna get this too

No, I do not hate humanity. Also, there are no factions besides the corrupted that have every eximus type.

Nullifier eximus would only be available to the corpus and corrupted factions like they are now. You don't see infested artic eximus or a grineer venomous eximus.

[CriticalFumble]

I almost stopped reading when you said that TF2 pyro's are broken. 

 

In any case, your first point is a pattern with DE it seems.  They've had mag proc enemies and energy leach in for a long time and shown no interest in rethinking that decision.  What bothers me about that is that it dramatically reduces the value of "caster frames" relative to other ones.  You'd think that if players have access to tools that are so powerful that giving the AI the ability to totally negate it is "balanced" then tool itself has problems. 

[armedpoop]

they have everything to do with rep farming.  Cerberus?  gone.  Viver?  Before it was infested, also gone.  The whole reasoning for nullifiers to be there was to negate 4 to win.  Which is entirely stupid, because as many players have pointed out, there will always be a loot cave.  The fact that they've stuck around for this long is essentially a middle finger to all players.

No, no its not. What do we have now? Stephano and Draco, Which are grineer maps.(No nullies) pressing 4 to win has nothing to do with a loot cave. The loot cave is still around, but in different levels. 

 

I have no idea how introducing an enemy that negates ult spam is a bad thing. The idea isnt bad, but them having "1 hit I quit" snipers is.

[Hatzeputt]

As long as the main argument of the Nulli haters remains: I do want want to use an appropriate side arm because.... insert lame excuse here...and it boils down to:"I am too lazy and stubborn!!" everything you have to say should fall forever on deaf ears.

[GREENGAL41]

Here, have this for future reference if you have any more trouble with Nullifiers.