Why Do People Still Think The Daikyu Is Good?

[RexRgisIocus]

Making a status "viable" (L M A O) bow with IPS damage model and lowest fire rate in the game was a complete fail.

 

Whenever I see a forum tough guy trying to enlighten people that "everybody is using it wrong it is status based weapon" I just wonder: did they magicaly mastered the secret of procing element they desire? Because when I do that on my 4-forma Daikyu, it procs useless puncture or impact all the time, despite gas having like x3-x4 more damage , than psysical damage mods.

 

As I said multiple times, Daikuy is a total garbage and should be used for fun only. Don't bother formaing it and trying to bring it to high levels. It is just not worth it.

 

MrNishi just posted video proof of Daikyu performing better than Opticor and almost as well as Paris P on a lvl 95 Gunner Eximus.

 

It would further outperform both in real void missions if modded for radiation because it would be able of canceling ancient auras.

 

Is it top tier? well I'm not completely sure. Is it good? yes it is.

 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

My brother pointed out a flaw with Daikyu video as both Paris Prime and Dread were against Arson Eximus, but Daikyu was against Leech Eximus that has more base health.

I'm uploading a video with Daikyu vs Arson type so equal health values.

Ran a bunch of weapons against lvl 95 Corrupted Heavy Gunner Eximus

I would say Daikyu is similar to Paris Prime given amount of Arrows to kill jeavy was similar. Dread just blows them away because Slash plus red crits...just bleeds the enemy.

-I still think Daikyu should have been 350 Slash only with same status....would have been a beast status bow

Paris Prime vs lvl95 HG Eximus

Daikyu vs lvl 95 HG Arson Eximus

Dread vs lvl 95 HG Eximus

Corrosive Opticor

Slash plus Corrosive Miter

(*I'll find/upload Crit Speed Puncture Opticor and Viral Slash Miter....I believe the amount of time to kill was about equivalent to Corrosive builds)

Edited July 27, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Ve1indian]

Bows typically get most of their damage in builds by getting crit chance to above 100% and crit damage to at least x4, effectively quadrupling the damage (and having the chance to deal 16 times damage) at full draw with 2 mods. with the Daikyu, it's crit chance is low enough to where you can't even get 50% crit per arrow. So it ends up having less consistent damage overall, despite having higher base damage. With a low RoF weapon like the Daikyu, consistency in damage can mean life and death.

 

If it's crit and status were buffed enough to make 100% possible on both with enough remaining slots for base damage increases, then it would be comparable to the current bows. Plus, the fact you can't quickfire, and it's slower draw speed in general would balance out the higher status. Then it could have a niche use against really high level heavy enemies when you need those procs to kill, and it's tradeoff would be lackluster performance vs. fodder enemies.

 

In its current state it's just mastery fodder and fleeting enjoyment of use for most players (due to low level content being even more boring than endgame).

Edited July 27, 2015 by Vougue

[srlhama]

15 seconds brat prime, yes that is my boy.

You could put thermite rounds or shred on that blank place, I could do a video for it and with a crit build, but I almost set my pc on fire saturday and I only will have it back at friday( at least is what I expect).

I am imagining a Hammer Shot with that Avenger Arcane would be beast.

Need to try my 4 forma Sybaris but first gonna buy all avenger arcanes on the market...

Edited July 27, 2015 by srlhama

[Praxeti]

I dunno seems good imo, I take it along to t4's and it one hits most/all enemies. It's a good bow, but doesn't compare to others.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I dunno seems good imo, I take it along to t4's and it one hits most/all enemies. It's a good bow, but doesn't compare to others.

This^

Daikyu is good, not great.

I personally enjoy the mechanics, and aesthetics.

But I also enjoy other unique mechanic weapons : Paracyst, Mutalist Quanta, Miter, Obex, Seer...

[wolf96781]

Counterargument to #1

 

It's a status bow, yes, status weapons are good with high dps for max procing. But only SOME of the procs are good when spammed, blast on its own glitches out a ton if you spam it.

 

Also, stick on a punch through mod and line enemies up, there. 1 bullet-50 procs

[motorfirebox]

The thing is, you really don't need 100% status even on a slow-firing weapon. With my crit PP and Dread, I still have more than enough status chance to get a proc on nearly every hit. Heck, the whole reason Dread is generally favored over PP is its reliable bleed procs.

Edited July 27, 2015 by motorfirebox

[Heidrek]

I'm seriously wondering. I've heard only a small handfull of arguments in its favor (or against it, in the case of not wanting buffs), and honestly, they don't seem very good.

1: "It's not a crit bow, it's a status bow."

That just makes it the worst of both worlds. If you're going to use a status weapon, use something with an actual DPS so you can proc more than one thing a second. the lack of critical ability means that it simply lacks the killing power of virtually any bow except the Mk-1 Paris.

2: "It doesn't need to be like other bows. Let it be unique."

Giving it a higher critical chance would NOT remove its niche, as it would still have advantages and disadvantages over the other bows. The Daikyu is an investment bow. You have a specific firing window - and consequentially a lower overall firing rate - but more benefit for that full draw. At least, there should be more benefit on paper, but the only "benefit" (which is arguable) is that the arrows don't arc. ...Yay.

But ignoring the comparisons to bows, more than enough people have already compared it to the Opticor, which is more flexible and more damaging overall. So even without comparing it to bows it's just not that great.

3: "Not every weapon needs to be end-game."

This might be one of the weakest arguments ever. First of all, that could be an argument against any weapon. Supra reload speed too low? "It doesn't have to be end-game." Machete the single worst weapon in existence? "It doesn't have to be end-game."

No one's saying the Daikyu HAS to be end-game. We're saying that for a dojo weapon, the lack of advantages compared to disadvantages penalizes you far more than rewarding you for using it.

4: "No, I was able to use it when I [anecdotal evidence ahoy!]"

If you were able to make it work for you, great. That doesn't make it good. Tactical Potato made a Youtube vid of his 8-forma Braton. Doesn't mean the Braton is suddenly the powerhouse metagame.

I'm sorry, it's just... the thing is gathering dust in my weapons list and I would really like to see it get just a LITTLE bit of love.

is a good weapon, not a great one.

[Ve1indian]

is a good weapon, not a great one.

The issue is that it is not on par with other bows, and for being one of the more unique bows function wise, it should be for the sake of variety. There is no reason for a weapon to be invalidated at higher tier content. Even if it's good at low to mid tier content, it would still benefit it to be buffed so that it can compete late game as well.

[RexRgisIocus]

The issue is that it is not on par with other bows, and for being one of the more unique bows function wise, it should be for the sake of variety. There is no reason for a weapon to be invalidated at higher tier content. Even if it's good at low to mid tier content, it would still benefit it to be buffed so that it can compete late game as well.

 

Did you not see the video MrNishi posted? Diakyu performed better than Opticor and pretty much matched Paris P, one of the best bows.

 

Granted one lvl 95 gunner eximus isn't real gameplay but I would assume that diakyu would perform better than even Paris P in real game voids simply because of being able of proccing rad reliably. It would get rid of that pesky ancient DR aura easily. Something Paris P would have problems with.

[hammerheathen]

Bump the crit up to make it just able to hit 100% with Point Strike, and swap primary damage to slash; boom, now will consistently crit, and most procs will either be elemental (yay!) or slash crit procs (double yay)!

 

Seriously, I run crit/viral/slash on my Dread and it wrecks armored level 90+; the Daiyku should be more of a heavy killer than, well, anything.

To be honest Cernos needs that.

 

Cernos in my opinion is the coolest looking, but is not really the most popular, just a little too low on the crit, and, well impact isn't as useful as it could be.

[Ve1indian]

Did you not see the video MrNishi posted? Diakyu performed better than Opticor and pretty much matched Paris P, one of the best bows.

 

Granted one lvl 95 gunner eximus isn't real gameplay but I would assume that diakyu would perform better than even Paris P in real game voids simply because of being able of proccing rad reliably. It would get rid of that pesky ancient DR aura easily. Something Paris P would have problems with.

The problem is real gameplay is way more hectic and the slow draw speed and low single shot damage will lead to issues when dealing with larger numbers of enemies. Another thing to note is that the damage of builds can vary a lot, and I'm not sure if that video takes into account the most useful builds for damage vs. the lvl 95 heavy gunner for all the bows tested.

[RexRgisIocus]

The problem is real gameplay is way more hectic and the slow draw speed and low single shot damage will lead to issues when dealing with larger numbers of enemies. Another thing to note is that the damage of builds can vary a lot, and I'm not sure if that video takes into account the most useful builds for damage vs. the lvl 95 heavy gunner for all the bows tested.

 

Daikyu may have more problems at handling crowds than Paris P because of the drawing speed but what happens whan the groups has ancients in it? good luck with dealing with that using Paris P. Daikyu on the other hand simple shoots and radiation takes care of the ancient auras since the ancient transfers the procs to itself.

 

As for the builds used, he posted the picture with the builds iirc.

 

[Ve1indian]

Daikyu may have more problems at handling crowds than Paris P because of the drawing speed but what happens whan the groups has ancients in it? good luck with dealing with that using Paris P. Daikyu on the other hand simple shoots and radiation takes care of the ancient auras since the ancient transfers the procs to itself.

 

As for the builds used, he posted the picture with the builds iirc.

 

The example you gave is one of the few areas where the Daikyu is better than other bows, but similar high status weapons can do the same job better (like a status modded Braton Prime, or Strun Wraith). After you successfully radiation proc the ancient, actually dealing with the crowd is still more of a chore because of the lower crit chance/speed the Daikyu has.

 

I will admit it is good in some instances, but for a status weapon it's too slow to deal with hordes, and for a bow its damage is too low (due to low crit chance) to deal any significant damage. even if you can proc a high lvl enemy enough times to weaken them, it's still more effective to use a different status weapon and/or switch to a Paris Prime/Dread right after to deal litterally 4 to 16 times more damage consistently.

 

If the Daikyu's Crit chance was buffed to be able to reach 100% with point strike, I will consider it on par.

[RexRgisIocus]

The example you gave is one of the few areas where the Daikyu is better than other bows, but similar high status weapons can do the same job better (like a status modded Braton Prime, or Strun Wraith). After you successfully radiation proc the ancient, actually dealing with the crowd is still more of a chore because of the lower crit chance/speed the Daikyu has.

 

I will admit it is good in some instances, but for a status weapon it's too slow to deal with hordes, and for a bow its damage is too low (due to low crit chance) to deal any significant damage. even if you can proc a high lvl enemy enough times to weaken them, it's still more effective to use a different status weapon and/or switch to a Paris Prime/Dread right after to deal litterally 4 to 16 times more damage consistently.

 

If the Daikyu's Crit chance was buffed to be able to reach 100% with point strike, I will consider it on par.

 

100% crit chance would double its damage. This would make Paris P obsolete and maybe even Dread. Diakyu is easier to get than both of this bows. RNGsus is a cruel god.

 

[Scar.Heart]

I love my Daikyu. It's great for stealth, and makes a decent substitute for my Lanka.

 

My thoughts on buffing Daikyu:

I (somewhat) disagree.

 

Why?:

Personally, I do not believe it is the Daikyu that is at fault here.

The entirety of Damage 2.0 is what I believe needs a tweak.

 

Thoughts:

1. Debuff statuses such as Radiation, Corrosive, and Magnetic gain their full effect in a single shot, regardless of damage.

In short, a Daikyu firing a Corrosive shot will reduce the enemy's armor by the same amount as a shot fired from a Lato. The only difference is the actual damage dealt.

This poses a problem for any status-based weapon that isn't automatic. If a status effect can pay-in full with a single shot, there's zero point in using low RoF weapons for status-based combat.

And, if the status can stack multiple times on itself, there's even less reason to use a status-based single-shot weapon.

 

2. DoT effects such as Slash, Gas and Fire deal great damage when stacked on top of each other.

In this case, a Daikyu proc'ing fire may well lose in DoT to a fire-built Grakata that can dump 60 bullets in less than 5 seconds.

The only advantage the Daikyu has is that the DoT elements deal damage based on a percentage of the weapon's base damage.

This sounds great overall, as the Daikyu clearly has a massive base damage compared to a weapon like the Grakata.

However, the slow RoF can cripple the Daikyu in a fight against similar automatics, as they can quickly stack their DoT's to out-perform the Daikyu's own DoT.

 

3. Single Shot Weapons in general are discouraged. Most single-shot weapons in Warframe have a "one shot, one kill" mentality. But we all know this thinking doesn't work as you go into later game combat.

At this point, automatics are triumphant.

High RoF means multiple chances to afflict ailments in a short time window.

High RoF means an enemy at any level dies quickly.

If an enemy isn't killed in a single shot, you've got 20 bullets right behind the first to ensure the job gets done. And if a status proc occurs, that's just icing on the cake.

 

But if you're using a single-shot weapon, and it fails to kill the enemy in one go, what's the chance the status proc you need will take effect? What's the chance said proc will kill the enemy before you load another round/arrow?

You'll likely have to fire another round to kill an enemy that would already be dead and gone verse an automatic.

And if you need more than one shot to slay the enemy, why not just use an automatic?

Afterall, debuff procs such as Blast and Radiation give their full effect, regardless of damage.

Meanwhile, DoT procs do best when stacked on each other, meaning fast hitting is better than hard hitting.

 

TL;DR:

1. Damage 2.0 status effects need tweaking.

2. Debuff ailments (radiation, magnetic, blast) give full effect, whether you use the Daikyu or Lato.

3. DoT ailments (while doing % of weapon's base damage) do best when stacked upon each other, meaning automatics are best suited.

4. Damage 2.0 needs to find a way to encourage status-builds with single-shot weapons like the Daikyu.

 

Note: I apologize for potential grammar errors and things that may not make sense. My pills for leg pain kicked in, and I'm feelin' just a tad dizzy.

 

[Ve1indian]

100% crit chance would double its damage. This would make Paris P obsolete and maybe even Dread. Diakyu is easier to get than both of this bows. RNGsus is a cruel god.

at 100% chance (no more) it still wouldn't have the potential to deal red crits like the the Paris P/Dread do. when the Paris P and Dread have vital sense on they deal 4.4 times damage on crits rather than 2 times. Also, the Paris P and Dread have faster fire rates, meaning the likelyhood of red crits (and thus insane damage) would make up for the slightly lower single shot damage (if the higher DPS vs. crowds of enemies hasn't already). The Daikyu could accel at priority targets (due to its slightly higher damage if directly hitting, and it's status if an ancient is hiding amongst the ranks), while the Paris Prime and Dread would be better when ragdolling lines of enemies into each other at a faster pace when they aren't affected by ancient buffs.

 

Paris Prime and Dread are pretty easy to get late game, but the difficulty or time it takes to achieve a weapon has no relevance to my point.

[Jeetza]

Daikyu sucks. My proposed change? Massive damage increase and a lot of innate punch through. The bow is supposed to have a long draw time (removing that would remove its personality) so damage is the only way to compensate.

[HAYABU5A]

easiest way to fix daikyu is just remove the IPS entirely and replace it with a single element

 

ex; toxin dmg from 'poisonous arrows', etc 

[RexRgisIocus]

at 100% chance (no more) it still wouldn't have the potential to deal red crits like the the Paris P/Dread do. when the Paris P and Dread have vital sense on they deal 4.4 times damage on crits rather than 2 times. Also, the Paris P and Dread have faster fire rates, meaning the likelyhood of red crits (and thus insane damage) would make up for the slightly lower single shot damage (if the higher DPS vs. crowds of enemies hasn't already). The Daikyu could accel at priority targets (due to its slightly higher damage if directly hitting, and it's status if an ancient is hiding amongst the ranks), while the Paris Prime and Dread would be better when ragdolling lines of enemies into each other at a faster pace when they aren't affected by ancient buffs.

 

Paris Prime and Dread are pretty easy to get late game, but the difficulty or time it takes to achieve a weapon has no relevance to my point.

 

12% red crit chance on Paris P and 25% On Dread wouldn't make up for Daikyu's status chance mixed with 100% crit chance.

 

Daikyu would also have 4.4 crit damage with Vital Sense. What I meant by double damage is that currently Daikyu is capable of half of Paris P's damage without being crit viable. Being crit viable would double its damage at base.

 

Daikyu would end up making Paris P obsolete even though Paris P has the faster fire rate simply because of the possibility for better crowd control or enemy debuffing while also having amazing damage. 

 

At the moment Daikyu's decent damage and amazing status makes it good, not godlike but good. Is it better than rifles or other high RoF status guns? no it isn't. But then again Paris P isn't better than any high tier high RoF rifle either.

 

How hard a weap is to get does have relevance. If it didn't matter then there would be no reason why Supra should be better than Tetra or Braton.

 

But anyways I can see we aren't getting anywhere with this discussion so I'm stopping here. I just hope this doesn't end up making other weaps completely useless.

 

[unknow99]

I use it for Stealth & enjoy it so I don't care.

 

A little buff won't get my disapproval though... :3

[Naftal]

I treat Daikyu as a pvp tool and the first released longbow which matches regular Paris in power level in pve. I'm just waiting for them to release the dread/paris prime of longbows.

[Ronyn]

Ran a bunch of weapons against lvl 95 Corrupted Heavy Gunner Eximus

I would say Daikyu is similar to Paris Prime given amount of Arrows to kill jeavy was similar. Dread just blows them away because Slash plus red crits...just bleeds the enemy.

-I still think Daikyu should have been 350 Slash only with same status....would have been a beast status bow

Paris Prime vs lvl95 HG Eximus

Daikyu vs lvl 95 HG Arson Eximus

Dread vs lvl 95 HG Eximus

Corrosive Opticor

Slash plus Corrosive Miter

(*I'll find/upload Crit Speed Puncture Opticor and Viral Slash Miter....I believe the amount of time to kill was about equivalent to Corrosive builds)

With respect, you often had a small delay between fully drawing and actually firing the paris prime where as you fired the diakyu almost immediately after it was fully drawn so this ends up skewing the comparison. This suggests that the diakyu would fall further behind the paris prime if it the PP was fired at its full potential rate of charge and fire.

 

At any rate I agree with what youre saying about raising the base damage and making it all slash.

Well either slash or an element (better yet the chroma treatment where color picks base element)

Edited July 29, 2015 by Ronyn

[Pride]

If you build and use it right, it can be amazing. I run 3 dualstat gas electric with serration, vital sense, split chamber, speed trigger, point strike- on my mirage. It's all about gathering enemies, keeping your distance, and hitting headshots consistently. If you can do that with the build I use, it devastates.

dread devastates too and it does it faster. i hit minimum of 10k on a >1 second charge to a body shot without cpx4 and thats counting i am not only wasting potential damage mod space on viral and speed trigger im also wasting a spot on shred to get punch thru im sorry but your point is moot.