aerosoul1337 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) There is something wrong with Warframe ability damage. Then I started to test. Since the armor calculation is more complex, I started with infested Most noticeable: I cast tons of AoE and couldn't kill a single level 1 Ancient Disruptor. There was no any other enemy around. Ice Wave with 100% Power Strength on Swarm-Mutalist MOA Damage = 1572 (299% of expected damage) Avalanche with 100% Power Strength on Swarm-Mutalist MOA Damage = 3369 (299% of expected damage) Ice Wave with 100% Power Strength (Frost P max rank, Ancient Disruptor Level 1) Damage = 26 (5% of expected damage) Avalanche with 100% Power Strength (Frost P max rank, Ancient Disruptor Level 1) Damage = 56 (5% of expected damage) Even if we ignore Ancient Disruptor's aura, there are still something unreasonable. The following results are tested with max rank Frost P with 100% Power Strength. All skills were aimed for torso, headshots were avoided. Each result set has been tested for multiple times. Extremely abnormal results are marked. (Different browser may have different alignment.) Type Ice effect% Test target Freeze damage Ice Wave damage Avalanche damage Infested 100% expected result 350 700 1500 Test result: Charger 349 699 1497 Leaper 349 699 1497 I.Flesh 50% expected result 175 350 750 Test result: Crawler 175 349 749 Volatile Runner 175 349 749 Fossilized 75% expected result 262.5 525 1125 Test result: Boiler 262 524 1123 Brood Mother 262 524 1123 Swarm-Mutalist MOA 262 *1572 *3369 Tar-Mutalist MOA 262 *1572 *3369 Ancient Healer 262 *262 *562 Toxic Ancient 262 *262 *562 Corrupted Ancient 262 *262 *562 Ancient Disruptor 262 *26 *56 __________________________________________________________________________________________ If the table is not well aligned for your browser, check this picture: _________________________________________________________________________________________ P.S. Unlike Ancient Healer, Ancient Disruptor's aura can cover itself and other ancients. Also I tested Saryn's Miasma and Excal's Javelin, they both deal correct damage at 100% power strength against Ancient Disruptor. EDIT: MORE Warframe SKILL TEST: Tested some other skills against Ancient Healer and Disruptor: (All skills were aimed for torso, headshots were avoided.) Excalibur Slash Dash: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Javelin: deals about 100% of expected damage against both Ancients. E.Blade: deals about 100% of expected damage against both Ancients. (without melee weapon or mod equipped, 100% power strength) Ember Fireball: deals about 50% of expected damage against both Ancients. World on Fire: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer. And deals 5% of expected damage against Disruptor (direct damage is 5, heat proc is 200 per tick, weird enough). Saryn Venom: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals "ZERO" damage against Disruptor. Miasma: deals about 100% of expected damage for both Ancients. (100% power strength and 100% duration) Rhino Stomp: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor. Loki Disarm: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor. There is no rule at all. Ash Shuriken: This is a tricky one since you can not aim it freely... most of the time it treats like you hit ancient's helm gear behind its head and deals 50% of expected damage for all ancients. But if the Shuriken does hit the body, it deals about 100% correct damage for all ancients. And headshot got 2x damage correctly but it's a bit hard since the helm gear seems to have large hit box, it even covers the FRONT side. Blade Storm: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Welp, even FinishHer Finisher damage is not reliable. Blade Storm hit Ancient healer. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals 998 damage instead. It can not take proc damage in this picture because level 1 ancient is killed by 998 damage directly. I have to test blade storm on low level enemies otherwise the chain effect and the camera is way too hard to handle. Blade Storm hit Ancient Disruptor. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals only 100 damage. But its proc deals 350 damage per tick (supposed to be 700). Atlas Landslide deals 50% of expected damage against both ancient healer and disruptor. Oberon Smite deals 50% of expected damage against ancient healer, and deals 5% of expected damage against disruptor. However, projectiles after this initial smite deal 100% of expected damage against disruptor, sometimes even 200%. Reckoning deals 50% of expected damage against ancient healer, and deals 5% of expected damage against disruptor. All Ancients takes half expected damage from certain skills. It has something to do with its helm gear behind its head. Disruptor's aura reduces certain skills' damage by 90% further. But some skills are not effected. Other fossilized enemies (Boiler and Brood mother) have no such issues. Conclusions 1. Body part damage multiplier is completely messed up for a lot of warframe ability. Especially non-Humanoid I guess. Ancient's helm gear behind its head seems to take 0.5x damage. And it is bugged for some warframe ability that takes that 0.5x multiplier no matter it's a radial effect or direct damage type. But there are some victims as well... Moa type enemies (except Anti MOA) seem to take 3x damage from certain radial skills. Anti MOA has sightly different figure and it takes correct damage. I think AoE/Radial ability should hit torso and use 1.0x damage multiplier on all enemies. 2. Ancient Disruptor's aura effectiveness is very weird. It reduces CERTAIN (but not all) abilities damage by 90%. (did the reduction use to be so high?) And it DOES cover itself and other ancients. Ancient's aura should NOT cover itself or other ancients. 3.Anyways, CC abilities are not effected by both aura, CC for the win. Edited October 11, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact6 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Good job. Hope this gets noticed. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I heard somewhere that the disruptor's aura weakens the ability damage, and does the magnetic proc like always, so I think that's why the ability damage is so low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluttershy93 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Disruptor aura has always been like this since launch, you can have MASSIVE damage in your abilities, but the moment these guys show up you will hardly scratch them. Hence the need for weapon damage, which they can hardly handle, unlike Healers. If you really want to test it try it with some other frame, i've had 500k damage stored on Equinox day form, and with a Disruptor around that damage becomes useless. Is it OP? Wouldn't really say so, this is not something that is new to Warframe. Ever since Ancients got auras, these Disruptors have always been one of the top priorities because of this ability damage reduction. Simply put, get your priorities straight, kill ancients first, ALWAYS, unless you feel like having heavy tankers around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nms. Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) From the wiki: "Casts an aura that reduces radial and power damage received by nearby allies", aura may work on himself. It kinda fits your power table up to frost only, icewave and avalanche are radial attacks (not sure on icewave, seems areal), while freeze isn't. What I find odd is that miasma and radial javelin worked fine. May be a bug though, on either case, perhaps its damage reduction was intended but is bugged. Edited August 23, 2015 by nms64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Tested some other skills against Ancient Healer and Disruptor: (All skills were aimed for torso, headshots were avoided.) Excalibur Slash Dash: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Javelin: deals about 100% of expected damage for both Ancients. E.Blade: deals about 100% of expected damage for both Ancients. (without melee weapon or mod equipped, 100% power strength) Ember Fireball: deals about 50% of expected damage for both Ancients. World on Fire: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer. And deals 5% of expected damage against Disruptor (direct damage is 5, heat proc is 200 per tick, weird enough). Saryn Venom: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals "ZERO" damage against Disruptor. Miasma: deals about 100% of expected damage for both Ancients. (100% power strength and 100% duration) Rhino Stomp: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor. Loki Disarm: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor. There is no rule at all. Ash Shuriken: This is a tricky one since you can not aim it freely... most of the time it treats like you hit ancient's helm gear behind its head and deals 50% of expected damage for all ancients. But if the Shuriken does hit the body, it deals about 100% correct damage for all ancients. And headshot got 2x damage correctly but it's a bit hard since the helm gear seems to have large hit box, it even covers the FRONT side. Blade Storm: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Welp, even FinishHer Finisher damage is not reliable. Blade Storm hit Ancient healer. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals 998 damage instead. It can not take proc damage in this picture because level 1 ancient is killed by 998 damage directly. I have to test blade storm on low level enemies otherwise the chain effect and the camera is way too hard to handle. Blade Storm hit Ancient Disruptor. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals only 100 damage. But its proc deals 350 damage per tick (supposed to be 700). Conclusion: (All these are tested as U17.2.2) 1.All Ancients takes half expected damage from certain skills. It has something to do with its helm gear behind its head. 2.Disruptor's aura reduces certain skills' damage by 90% further. But some skills are not effected. 3.Other fossilized enemies (Boiler and Brood mother) have no such issues. 4.I don't believe those skills work as intended, it need to be fixed. 5.If you don't want to bother with this bug with infested, use Excalibur or Saryn for quick runs if needed. Edit: Rhino Stomp deals blast damage instead of impact damage. I corrected the expected damage. Edited August 24, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nms. Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Tested some other skills against Ancient Healer and Disruptor: Excalibur Slash Dash: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Javelin: deals about 100% of expected damage for both. E.Blade: deals about 100% of expected damage for both. (without melee weapon or mod equipped, 100% power strength) Ember Fireball: deals about 50% of expected damage for both. World on Fire: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer. And deals 5% of damage against Disruptor (direct damage is 5, heat proc is 200 per tick, weird enough). Saryn Venom: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals "ZERO" damage against Disruptor. Miasma: deals about 100% of expected damage for both. (100% power strength and 100% duration) Rhino Stomp: always deals about 150% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 15% of expected damage against Disruptor. *Ancient has no weak spot that takes 150% damage, this is BS. So I tested impact damage again, this time Loki's Disarm: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor. There is no rule at all. Ash Shuriken: This is a tricky one since you can not aim it freely... most of the time it hit on ancient's helm gear and deals 50% of expected damage for all ancients. But if the Shuriken does hit the body, it deals about 100% correct damage for all ancients. And headshot got 2x damage correctly. Blade Storm: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Welp, even FinishHer Finisher damage is not reliable. Blade Storm hit Ancient healer. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals 998 damage instead. It can not take proc damage in this picture because level 1 ancient is killed by 998 damage directly. I have to test blade storm on low level enemies otherwise the chain effect and the camera is way too hard to handle. Blade Storm hit Ancient Disruptor. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals only 100 damage. But it's proc deals 350 damage per tick (supposed to be 700). Conclusion: (All these are tested as U17.2.2) 1.All Ancients takes half expected damage from certain skills. 2.Disruptor's aura reduces certain skills' damage by 90% further. But some skills still deal correct damage. 3.Other fossilized enemies (Boiler and Brood mother) have no such issues. 4.Ancient Healer + Disruptor can cover each other perfectly now... 5.I don't believe this is intended, it need to be fixed. Yeah that's f*cked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 From the wiki: "Casts an aura that reduces radial and power damage received by nearby allies", aura may work on himself. It kinda fits your power table up to frost only, icewave and avalanche are radial attacks (not sure on icewave, seems areal), while freeze isn't. What I find odd is that miasma and radial javelin worked fine. May be a bug though, on either case, perhaps its damage reduction was intended but is bugged. Still there is still something wrong for other ancients, most skill deals halved damage. And I believe Slash Dash and Blade Storm is "direct hit" instead of radial effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Two things: 1. Body part damage multiplier is completely messed up for a lot of warframe ability. Especially non-Humanoid I guess. Ancient's helm gear behind its head seems to take 0.5x damage. And it is bugged for some warframe ability that takes that 0.5x multiplier no matter it's a radial effect or direct damage type. But there are some victims as well... Moa type enemies (except Anti MOA) seem to take 3x damage from certain radial skills. Anti MOA has sightly different figure and it takes correct damage. Avalanche with 100% Power Strength on Corpus MOA 4492 damage (removed shield for easier reading direct damage Robotic health: Cold should deal 100% damage) 4500 damage is basically 3x damage of Avalanche's 1500 cold damage. 2. Ancient Disruptor's aura effectiveness is very weird. It reduces CERTAIN (but not all) abilities damage by 90%. (did the reduction use to be so high?) Edited August 24, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxfire Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) The reason why it does 3x damage on moas is because it hits the fanny pack which is the critical hit spot. And that is why I have always fought corpus with frost :) Edited August 25, 2015 by Saxfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtowin Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 At what range, you tested the ability with other frame? My theory is, your ability will deal unexpected damage only if you're in certain range of the ancient. For example, with Ash's Bladestorm, you literally use finisher on it, so you must be in close range, thus the damage reduction. While with Exaliber's Javelin you can do it far from the ancient. Therefore, no damage reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) At what range, you tested the ability with other frame? My theory is, your ability will deal unexpected damage only if you're in certain range of the ancient. For example, with Ash's Bladestorm, you literally use finisher on it, so you must be in close range, thus the damage reduction. While with Exaliber's Javelin you can do it far from the ancient. Therefore, no damage reduction. From point blank to max range, all tested. All are the same. I think you don't know how ancient's aura work. It's not where you are... Ancient Heal can not cover itself and other ancient. -> The point of test on healer is "multiplier is applied incorrectly". The reason why it does 3x damage on moas is because it hits the fanny pack which is the critical hit spot. And that is why I have always fought corpus with frost :) Of course I know, that's the point of the title. Radial ability is supposed to hit on TORSO for all enemies. Edited August 25, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtowin Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think you don't know how ancient's aura work. It's not where you are... Ancient Heal can not cover itself and other ancient. -> The point of test on healer is "multiplier is applied incorrectly". I know how ancient's Aura work. The reason I ask is I want to know whether they has some "Secret" aura that debuff warframe instead, which is not the case here. Beside, more data = better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesarin Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I dont think this is only for powers. during certain missions. my tonkor goes nuts as well (crit maxed build) sometimes it can do as little as 500 damage, others can go above 800,000 (with mirage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Bump. C'mon :( Still broken in U17.3 Edited September 4, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Still broken after U17.4 Edited September 10, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Still broken as U17.4.2 :*( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfDarkShadow Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Oh boy, those are certainly interesting numbers. Hopefully they'll look into it soon!~ Because that's really strange regarding the polarizing damages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 Oh boy, those are certainly interesting numbers. Hopefully they'll look into it soon!~ Because that's really strange regarding the polarizing damages. Weird enough right? But how come no body noticed that... World on Fire is so broken... Deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer. And deals 5% of expected damage against Disruptor (direct damage is 5, heat proc is 200 per tick, weird enough). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Jiwa- Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 F**k Disruptor anyways....I hate those things...Btw bump and those play testing though...goodjob, I hope DE can fixed this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Disruptor aura reduces power damage by 90%, and Fossilized health resists Cold by 25%. For the moas, you're hitting the Fanny Pack with your AOE, which explains the 3x damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosoul1337 Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Disruptor aura reduces power damage by 90%, and Fossilized health resists Cold by 25%. For the moas, you're hitting the Fanny Pack with your AOE, which explains the 3x damage. Didn't you read the Conclusions? 1. Body part damage multiplier is completely messed up for a lot of warframe ability. Especially non-Humanoid I guess. Ancient's helm gear behind its head seems to take 0.5x damage. And it is bugged for some warframe ability that takes that 0.5x multiplier no matter it's a radial effect or direct damage type. But there are some victims as well... Moa type enemies (except Anti MOA) seem to take 3x damage from certain radial skills. Anti MOA has sightly different figure and it takes correct damage. 2. Ancient Disruptor's aura effectiveness is very weird. It reduces CERTAIN (but not all) abilities damage by 90%. AoE/Radial ability is supposed to hit on TORSO (1.0x multiplier) for all enemies. But certain abilities deal only 50% expected damage on ancients (before Disruptor aura effect). Those skill hit 0.5X body part (head gear below ancient's head). ________________________________________________________________________ And if you did read other frames' skill test, you will know it's completely messed up. Tested some other skills against Ancient Healer and Disruptor: (All skills were aimed for torso, headshots were avoided.) Excalibur Slash Dash: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Javelin: deals about 100% of expected damage for both Ancients. E.Blade: deals about 100% of expected damage for both Ancients. (without melee weapon or mod equipped, 100% power strength) Ember Fireball: deals about 50% of expected damage for both Ancients. World on Fire: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer. And deals 5% of expected damage against Disruptor (direct damage is 5, heat proc is 200 per tick, weird enough). Saryn Venom: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals "ZERO" damage against Disruptor. Miasma: deals about 100% of expected damage for both Ancients. (100% power strength and 100% duration) Rhino Stomp: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor. Loki Disarm: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor. There is no rule at all. Ash Shuriken: This is a tricky one since you can not aim it freely... most of the time it treats like you hit ancient's helm gear behind its head and deals 50% of expected damage for all ancients. But if the Shuriken does hit the body, it deals about 100% correct damage for all ancients. And headshot got 2x damage correctly but it's a bit hard since the helm gear seems to have large hit box, it even covers the FRONT side. Blade Storm: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor. Even FinishHer Finisher damage is not reliable. Blade Storm hit Ancient healer. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals 998 damage instead. It can not take proc damage in this picture because level 1 ancient is killed by 998 damage directly. I have to test blade storm on low level enemies otherwise the chain effect and the camera is way too hard to handle. Blade Storm hit Ancient Disruptor. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals only 100 damage. But its proc deals 350 damage per tick (supposed to be 700). Edited September 30, 2015 by aerosoul1337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Basically, the only finding in this thread is that Ancients' back plates take 50% damage. All of your other findings are consistent with what's expected. I found that in order to get headshots with Fireball, I had to aim for the spot in between the backplate and the face tentacles. Anything below gave a bodyshot while anything above hit the backplate for reduced damage. Headshots were trivial to get from a 45% angle upward from the Ancient, but more tricky to do from ground level. I guess I've just unconsciously been aiming them properly when I played Ember, and chalked up any non-headshots to auras or w/e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Danielle Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hey Tenno! Thanks for reporting. We will be investigating Frost's ability damage output to make sure it's on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reedknoll Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hey Tenno! Thanks for reporting. We will be investigating Frost's ability damage output to make sure it's on track. OP mentioned inconsistencies with other frames also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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