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Extremely Abnormal Skill Damage (And Messed Up Body Part Multiplier)


aerosoul1337
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Well, compared to ancient's aura, bubble is very small and can be destroyed.

If the radius of disruptor aura can be toned down a bit but still cover itself (but doesn't cover other ancients).

It would be more reasonable.

I doubt they give a sh#3@ though.

 

At least, AoE or non-Projectile skills should just use 1.0x multiplier.

Most extreme cases will be solved, easy and fair. :3

Seems kind of silly to have the back plate just to reduce some powers' damage.

 

Remember that you can use Radiation procs to disable Ancient auras.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Its not just for warframes, its for weapons as well, i noticed with my quanta vandal..

 

Yeap just confirmed that most weapon AoE effect will deal only half damage on ancients.

Such as Tonkor, in most cases the AoE explosion will hit ancients' 0.5x multiplier no matter where the explosion is...

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try against level 99 infested.

 

Ancients used to take double damage from certain damage types "finishers" like ash used to hit healers for double

 

 

I assume this is simply to do with weak-spots on ancients, and when they bend down they get hit in the head, its possible they also still have a weak right knee :)

 

oh.. wikia

 

Body Multipliers Head: 2.0x
Limbs: 3.0x

 

limbs 3x

 

so.. ice wave dealing around 299%(rounded down) more damage is because it hits feet?

Edited by Tatersail
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oh.. wikia

 

Body Multipliers Head: 2.0x

Limbs: 3.0x

 

limbs 3x

 

so.. ice wave dealing around 299%(rounded down) more damage is because it hits feet?

That is one page that is extremely outdated and unreliable.  I'm planning on updating it eventually.  

 

Ancients have 2.0 modifier on the head (the tentacley part,) .5 on the back plate (that thing on their back that's also partially above the back of their head,) and 1.0 everywhere else.   

Edited by RealPandemonium
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That is one page that is extremely outdated and unreliable.  I'm planning on updating it eventually.  

 

Ancients have 2.0 modifier on the head (the tentacley part,) .5 on the back plate (that thing on their back that's also partially above the back of their head,) and 1.0 everywhere else.   

 

Yea...

There is no 3.0x part. Did ancients use to have that limb multiplier?

 

But I still don't get it, why does AoE hit enemies' back by default? (Weapon AoE included in most cases as well)

If developers want to avoid "AoE head shot", they can make radial ability and weapon AoE hit enemy torso.

MOAs won't suffer 3.0x damage this way...

 

By the way, new Saryn's miasma still ignores disruptor aura and hits ancient's torso though.

Edited by aerosoul1337
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  • 2 weeks later...

There is something wrong with Warframe ability damage.

Then I started to test. Since the armor calculation is more complex, I started with infested

Most noticeable: I cast tons of AoE and couldn't kill a single level 1 Ancient Disruptor.

There was no any other enemy around.

 

 

 

Ice Wave with 100% Power Strength on Swarm-Mutalist MOA

qLy5EwI.jpg

Damage = 1572  (299% of expected damage)

 

 

 

 

Avalanche with 100% Power Strength on Swarm-Mutalist MOA

K8OKUZZ.jpg

Damage = 3369  (299% of expected damage)

 

 

 

 

Ice Wave with 100% Power Strength (Frost P max rank, Ancient Disruptor Level 1)

EL5x7Pg.jpg

Damage = 26 (5% of expected damage)

 

 

 

Avalanche with 100% Power Strength (Frost P max rank, Ancient Disruptor Level 1)

1qcs4Kn.jpg

Damage = 56  (5% of expected damage)

 

 

 

cGSEnPV.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Even if we ignore Ancient Disruptor's aura, there are still something unreasonable.

The following results are tested with max rank Frost P with 100% Power Strength.

All skills were aimed for torso, headshots were avoided.

Each result set has been tested for multiple times.

Extremely abnormal results are marked.

(Different browser may have different alignment.)

 

 

 

Type          Ice effect%     Test target            Freeze damage     Ice Wave damage         Avalanche damage

Infested        100%        expected result              350                         700                              1500             

Test result:

                                       Charger                      349                         699                              1497

                                       Leaper                        349                         699                              1497

 

I.Flesh          50%         expected result              175                          350                               750           

Test result:

                                       Crawler                     175                           349                               749

                                   Volatile Runner              175                           349                               749

 

Fossilized      75%       expected result              262.5                         525                              1125          

Test result:

                                       Boiler                        262                           524                              1123

                                   Brood Mother                 262                           524                              1123

                              Swarm-Mutalist MOA          262                          *1572                            *3369

                                  Tar-Mutalist MOA            262                          *1572                            *3369

                                   Ancient Healer               262                           *262                             *562

                                  Toxic Ancient                  262                           *262                             *562

                               Corrupted Ancient               262                           *262                             *562

                                 Ancient Disruptor              262                           *26                               *56

__________________________________________________________________________________________

 

If the table is not well aligned for your browser, check this picture:

MCuapQM.jpg

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________

 

P.S.

Unlike Ancient Healer, Ancient Disruptor's aura can cover itself and other ancients.

Also I tested Saryn's Miasma and Excal's Javelin, they both deal correct damage at 100% power strength against Ancient Disruptor.

 

 

EDIT:

MORE Warframe SKILL TEST:

 

Tested some other skills against Ancient Healer and Disruptor:

(All skills were aimed for torso, headshots were avoided.)

 

Excalibur

Slash Dash: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor.

Javelin: deals about 100% of expected damage against both Ancients.

E.Blade: deals about 100% of expected damage against both Ancients. (without melee weapon or mod equipped, 100% power strength)

 

Ember

Fireball: deals about 50% of expected damage against both Ancients.

World on Fire: deals about 50% of expected damage against Ancient Healer.

                     And deals 5% of expected damage against Disruptor (direct damage is 5, heat proc is 200 per tick, weird enough).

 

Saryn

Venom: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals "ZERO" damage against Disruptor.

Miasma: deals about 100% of expected damage for both Ancients. (100% power strength and 100% duration)

 

Rhino

Stomp: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor.

 

 

Loki

Disarm: deals about 100% of expected damage against Ancient Healer, but deals about 10% of expected damage against Disruptor.

 

There is no rule at all.

 

Ash

Shuriken: This is a tricky one since you can not aim it freely... most of the time it treats like you hit ancient's helm gear behind its head and deals 50% of expected damage for all ancients.

But if the Shuriken does hit the body, it deals about 100% correct damage for all ancients.

And headshot got 2x damage correctly but it's a bit hard since the helm gear seems to have large hit box, it even covers the FRONT side.

 

Blade Storm: deals about 50% of  expected damage against Ancient Healer, and deals about 5% of expected damage against Disruptor.

 

Welp, even FinishHer Finisher damage is not reliable.

 

Blade Storm hit Ancient healer. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals 998 damage instead.

mNiyoeX.jpg

It can not take proc damage in this picture because level 1 ancient is killed by 998 damage directly.

I have to test blade storm on low level enemies otherwise the chain effect and the camera is way too hard to handle.

 

Blade Storm hit Ancient Disruptor. It is supposed to deal 2000 damage, but deals only 100 damage.

But its proc deals 350 damage per tick (supposed to be 700).

67ADUVA.jpg

 

 

Atlas

Landslide deals 50% of expected damage against both ancient healer and disruptor.

 

 

Oberon

Smite deals 50% of expected damage against ancient healer, and deals 5% of expected damage against disruptor.

However, projectiles after this initial smite deal 100% of expected damage against disruptor, sometimes even 200%.

 

Reckoning deals 50% of expected damage against ancient healer, and deals 5% of expected damage against disruptor.

 

 

All Ancients takes half expected damage from certain skills. It has something to do with its helm gear behind its head.

Disruptor's aura reduces certain skills' damage by 90% further. But some skills are not effected.

Other fossilized enemies (Boiler and Brood mother) have no such issues.

 

 

Conclusions

1. Body part damage multiplier is completely messed up for a lot of warframe ability.

Especially non-Humanoid I guess.

Ancient's helm gear behind its head seems to take 0.5x damage.

And it is bugged for some warframe ability that takes that 0.5x multiplier no matter it's a radial effect or direct damage type.

 

But there are some victims as well...

Moa type enemies (except Anti MOA) seem to take 3x damage from certain radial skills.

Anti MOA has sightly different figure and it takes correct damage.

 

I think AoE/Radial ability should hit torso and use 1.0x damage multiplier on all enemies.

 

 

2. Ancient Disruptor's aura effectiveness is very weird.

It reduces CERTAIN (but not all) abilities damage by 90%. (did the reduction use to be so high?)

And it DOES cover itself and other ancients.

 

Ancient's aura should NOT cover itself or other ancients.

 

 

3.Anyways, CC abilities are not effected by both aura, CC for the win.

 

Epic Work mate. Really, no Joke. We need more "technical players" like you!

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Epic Work mate. Really, no Joke. We need more "technical players" like you!

This thread is mostly alarmist.  He is only really pointing out that Ancients have a .5x body part on their back that is hit by many radial effects.  Everything else is business as usual, but he makes it out to be something crazy when it's really not.  

Edited by RealPandemonium
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the mechanics behind their aura are broken. i remember being able to solo akkad till wave 25 with only my thorid with no problem at all some moths ago; but now since round 5 its impossible because the damage reduction to AoE the disruptors aura gives makes that even at round 6 nothing will die from that very same thorid. absurd.

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the mechanics behind their aura are broken. i remember being able to solo akkad till wave 25 with only my thorid with no problem at all some moths ago; but now since round 5 its impossible because the damage reduction to AoE the disruptors aura gives makes that even at round 6 nothing will die from that very same thorid. absurd.

Did you have Radiation damage on your Torid before?

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I think AoE/Radial ability should hit torso and use 1.0x damage multiplier on all enemies.

i don't agree it should be considered a Binary situation.

 

Abilities which automatically target things, use Body, yes.

but ones that you control where to attack from or have Projectiles or Et Cetera - should check Body Part Multipliers for whichever one is 'closest' or so.

 

being able to deliberately aim most of your Abilities is better than not.

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i don't agree it should be considered a Binary situation.

 

Abilities which automatically target things, use Body, yes.

but ones that you control where to attack from or have Projectiles or Et Cetera - should check Body Part Multipliers for whichever one is 'closest' or so.

 

being able to deliberately aim most of your Abilities is better than not.

 

That's what i mean...

"AoE/Radial" skills. (Abilities which automatically target things) not including projectile or physical hits.

Because radial skills and mostly AoE and automatically target things.

Anyway, your point is exactly what I wanted to say. :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

This thread is mostly alarmist.  He is only really pointing out that Ancients have a .5x body part on their back that is hit by many radial effects.  Everything else is business as usual, but he makes it out to be something crazy when it's really not.  

 

U18:

When disruptor auras stack,  it seems very buggy.

The energy drain effect is multiplied, but the ability damage reduction effect is quite... random.

I have 185% power strength.

Sometimes I deal 104 damage, sometimes I deal 1039 damage from Avalanche.

 

fBNLzQM.jpg?1

 

BpmUbMy.jpg?1

 

UFXRTmm.jpg?1

 

nDiFV2O.jpg?1

 

104 and 1039 damage even appear at the same time...

eaiQ8WT.jpg?1

Edited by aerosoul1337
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  • 2 weeks later...

I know this is different but...

 

That's just because of their 50% bonus resistances.  Fire, Corrosive, and Puncture damage are already resisted by 50% by Techs, so Guardian Eximus Techs get 100% resistance and become immune.  It used to cap at 75%, but something changed (maybe the bonus resist increased from 25% -> 50%?  Ember getting neutered by overlapping Eximus damage resist auras is nothing new, though.  You pretty much need a Radiation proc source to keep those stacking auras from becoming a problem in late post-game content.  

Edited by RealPandemonium
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That's just because of their 50% bonus resistances.  Fire, Corrosive, and Puncture damage are already resisted by 50% by Techs, so Guardian Eximus Techs get 100% resistance and become immune.  It used to cap at 75%, but something changed (maybe the bonus resist increased from 25% -> 50%?  Ember getting neutered by overlapping Eximus damage resist auras is nothing new, though.  You pretty much need a Radiation proc source to keep those stacking auras from becoming a problem in late post-game content.  

 

What you said is much more like Toxic ancient's aura stack, 2 auras can provide aoe gas/toxin damage immunity. This may not be new.

But 1 single Guardian unit with photo shield is immune to puncture, corrosive and heat damage since U18.

Because I used to solo tons of missions with pure corrosive + heat build Atomos, and never encountered such a 100% resistance thing before U18.

 

But, even other eximus that gives 50% resistance does not have this bug after U18.

Guardian + photo shield seems buggy.

Only Guardian + Photo Shield has no resistance cap so far as I know.

 

Charger's Infested health has 50% resistance against radiation and viral.

Parasitic Charger has 50% more resistance against all types of damage.

But I still can kill them with Radiation + Viral weapon. (cap about 75% according to Parasitic Charge's Codex entry)

 

Guardian Eximus' Proto Shield has 100% damage resistance against 3 damage types, and I am sure this happened right after U18.

And these 3 types of damage are kinda important for void missions, Guardian Nullifiers are immune to those and I had to abort some missions.

This is not listed from any update note, it is probably an accidental bug imo.

 

Specifically, no health type should be completely immune to any type of damage directly.

Grineer's cloned flesh has innate 50% gas resistance, but none of any grineer eximus has 100% gas resistance even now. (cap at 75%)

Anyway this seems to be another issue.

For more discussion: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/570556-u18-game-breaking-bug-invulnerable-eximus/

 

By the way, you got any idea of the pictures that avalanche deals inconsistent damage against disruptors (U18 simulacrum screen shots)?

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Looks like sometimes the aura is on ans sometimes off.  Freezing seems to have an effect on it?  After the ancients had all been frozen for a while, it seems that all their auras had deactivated, allowing me to deal full damage.  

 

Hmmm...

You see this picture?

eaiQ8WT.jpg?1

 

Those disruptors are pretty close enough to cover each other.

But 1 takes 1039 damage while another takes 104 damage only.

Seems not simply "on or off" because the aura aoe radius is about 10m.

Edited by aerosoul1337
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Hmmm...

You see this picture?

eaiQ8WT.jpg?1

 

Those disruptors are pretty close enough to cover each other.

But 1 takes 1039 damage while another takes 104 damage only.

Seems not simply "on or off" because the aura aoe radius is about 10m.

That's what I'm saying; sometimes the aura is inactive for some reason, and I noticed that the aura had totally deactivated for all of them after they had stayed frozen for a sustained period of 10+ seconds.

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That's what I'm saying; sometimes the aura is inactive for some reason, and I noticed that the aura had totally deactivated for all of them after they had stayed frozen for a sustained period of 10+ seconds.

 

I don't think so, aura is AoE. And they are all frozen in that screen shot.

If an aura is "OFF", then everyone will take the same damage.

So does "ON"...

Edited by aerosoul1337
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