Unfair Pistol Reload Mod

[AnnoyingBanana]

Noticed that Quickdraw actually doesn't work properly on weapons, it increases reload speed by 48%, put it into twin grakatas which have 3.0 sec base reload, and it decreased to 2.0, while it should be ~1.5-1.6 seconds. Or does my math is somehow wrong? 50% of 3.0 = 1.5. For now it seems to remove only 33% of reload time.

Edited November 26, 2015 by AnnoyingBanana

[NaniteCircuit]

Inb4 move.

[arKRazor]

The math involved isn't what you would expect. I believe the secondary reload mods are consistent with the effects of their primary counterparts.


Reload Time = Weapon Reload Time ÷ (1 + Mod Reload Bonus)

In your case 3/(1+0.48) = 2.03

Edited November 26, 2015 by arKRazor

[taiiat]

Reload:

 

Base Reload time / 1 + (total Mod Reload Bonus)

3 / 1.48 == 2.027r Seconds.

 

 

yes, positive modifiers are weird.

Edited November 26, 2015 by taiiat

[AnnoyingBanana]

I don't get it why does these reload and charge rate this must have stupid hidden maths in them? Wouldn't it be better if it would just do the remove 48% time of base reload and same for charges.

[arKRazor]

I don't get it why does these reload and charge rate this must have stupid hidden maths in them? Wouldn't it be better if it would just do the remove 48% time of base reload and same for charges.

I think it was a measure of future proofing to avoid complications if multiple reload modifiers were introduced.

I'm all for added transparency in warframe math though.

[KM131]

I don't get it why does these reload and charge rate this must have stupid hidden maths in them? Wouldn't it be better if it would just do the remove 48% time of base reload and same for charges.

there is no stupid math only semantics.

the mod increases your reload speed and does not reduce your reload time.

in other words for 50% less reload time you need a 100% faster reload speed.

[DSpite]

I don't get it why does these reload and charge rate this must have stupid hidden maths in them? Wouldn't it be better if it would just do the remove 48% time of base reload and same for charges.

 

What?

 

* If you can normally run 100 meters in 10 seconds, and then you run 100% faster, you run x2 times as fast, so it now takes you 5 seconds

 

* If you normally reload a weapon in 1 second, and then you reload 100% faster, you reload x2 times as fast, so now it takes you 0.5 seconds.

[Naftal]

I don't get it why does these reload and charge rate this must have stupid hidden maths in them? Wouldn't it be better if it would just do the remove 48% time of base reload and same for charges.

You should've paid attention in school. There's no hidden math, it's all pretty obvious if you know the difference between "time" and "speed".

[tnccs215]

I know Im repeating others a bit, but its like this: Time is the time it takes to do something (duuuh), X speed is how much X you can do in a given amount of time (in this case, seconds).

Time and speed are usually inverses, by consequence.

Ence, if we see reload time has the time it takes to load a magazine, we can see reload speed has how much "magazines" we can load in a second. So, a 3.0s reload time is 1/3.0s reload speed (1 magazine per 3 seconds), which is ~0.33mags/s. Adding 0.48% reload speed, we get: 0.33mags/s1.48=~0.49mags/s.

0,49 magazines per second are ~2.04seconds/magazine.

That is, a reload speed of 0.49mags/s is a reload time of 2.04s, just like you got.

Now you know kids! Meth is fun, and don't do drugs!

[Kainosh]

Now you know kids! Meth is fun, and don't do drugs!

 

YOUR PARADOX MAKE MY BRAIN HURT. HNNNNNG.

 

 

Also

 I agree that it would be MUCH better if stats were more in da face.  Like, you have 3 seconds reload. You use 50% reload mod and 3 second reload turns into 1.5 seconds reload.

 Would be MUCH easier to understand.  And you will see total time it takes you to perform full reload...Instead of what it shows now.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Kainosh

[DSpite]

YOUR PARADOX MAKE MY BRAIN HURT. HNNNNNG.

 

 

Also

 I agree that it would be MUCH better if stats were more in da face.  Like, you have 3 seconds reload. You use 50% reload mod and 3 second reload turns into 1.5 seconds reload.

 Would be MUCH easier to understand.  And you will see total time it takes you to perform full reload...Instead of what it shows now.

 

I think you are missing the point though.

 

We can mount multiple mods, that stack percentages. If you went with YOUR thinking, then 110% Reload speed because a couple of Mods have been added and because someone chucked a speed Ability that allows faster reload, makes the gun what? Reload in negative time? How's that work exactly?

 

With the proper system, then even a 200% reload bonus is simply x3 times as fast as normal so instead of taking "X" number of seconds it takes "X/3" number of seconds.

 

If someone asks you RIGHT NOW to put together a puzzle and it takes you a minute, then you do it 50% faster, there is no math in the world that makes you do it in half the time, because that is not how it works, you are not doing in 50% of the TOTAL time, you are doing it 50% FASTER.

 

The mods don't change BASE TOTAL time, they change how much FASTER you do things.

Edited November 27, 2015 by DSpite

[tnccs215]

I think you are missing the point though.

We can mount multiple mods, that stack percentages. If you went with YOUR thinking, then 110% Reload speed because a couple of Mods have been added and because someone chucked a speed Ability that allows faster reload, makes the gun what? Reload in negative time? How's that work exactly?

With the proper system, then even a 200% reload bonus is simply x3 times as fast as normal so instead of taking "X" number of seconds it takes "X/3" number of seconds.

If someone asks you RIGHT NOW to put together a puzzle and it takes you a minute, then you do it 50% faster, there is no math in the world that makes you do it in half the time, because that is not how it works, you are not doing in 50% of the TOTAL time, you are doing it 50% FASTER.

The mods don't change BASE TOTAL time, they change how much FASTER you do things.

I dont intend to sound rude, but you should Change the caps into bold or italic. Seems like you are screaming otherwise.

Still, while what you are saying is true, I think more transparence is possible. For example, changing the Stat from reload time to reload speed would reduce confusion, I think.

[Kainosh]

I think you are missing the point though.

 

We can mount multiple mods, that stack percentages. If you went with YOUR thinking, then 110% Reload speed because a couple of Mods have been added and because someone chucked a speed Ability that allows faster reload, makes the gun what? Reload in negative time? How's that work exactly?

 

With the proper system, then even a 200% reload bonus is simply x3 times as fast as normal so instead of taking "X" number of seconds it takes "X/3" number of seconds.

 

If someone asks you RIGHT NOW to put together a puzzle and it takes you a minute, then you do it 50% faster, there is no math in the world that makes you do it in half the time, because that is not how it works, you are not doing in 50% of the TOTAL time, you are doing it 50% FASTER.

 

The mods don't change BASE TOTAL time, they change how much FASTER you do things.

 

I know. You dont think im unable to understand how it works without your help, do you? 

 

To avoid negative numbers it can be just capped. Like "power afficiency".  Why cap? To avoid animation twitches due to possible "500% reload speed buffs".

 

While some people like "Volt + Valk melee" style things when they can barely even see whats happening... I do not enjoy uncapped buffing that result in framerate drops and twitchy animations. Especially when it breaks gameplay and such.

 

But anyway, thats just my opinion. If there will be no way to reach that insane reloading speed with current system i dont mind it. 

 

I dont intend to sound rude, but you should Change the caps into bold or italic. Seems like you are screaming otherwise.

Still, while what you are saying is true, I think more transparence is possible. For example, changing the Stat from reload time to reload speed would reduce confusion, I think.

I dont mind caps.   

Also,  to make it VERY OBVIOUS,  DE can just add  word "time" after word "reload" in stat window. And add "sec." after number. Example:

 

Reload time  -  3.0 sec.    

 

That will be enough not to confuse i think.   Right now its just "Reload    3.0".   And we have that sprint speed of 1.2 and such...Thats why some people think that 3.0 is a speed modifier and post such threads.

[Darzk]

Right now its just "Reload    3.0".   And we have that sprint speed of 1.2 and such...Thats why some people think that 3.0 is a speed modifier and post such threads.

Naw, if it was a modifier a higher number would be a faster reload. If they specified a unit for one stat they would need to do so for other stats, and 'there lies madness'.

 

While we're on a related topic, what's up with Efficiency? So many people we confused by the meaning of the word DE just threw their hands in the air and said 'F*** it, we're gonna use cost instead'. And then totally broke the math for those of us who do understand the basics.

 

No one, with even the slightest understanding of numbers, would think that 200% efficient means 0 cost. Yet that's the system we have now because actual efficiency is too 'complicated' for people to get. 

 

Reload SPEED is simple enough to understand, Speed is not the same as time, makes it obvious. I don't think pandering to the lowest common denominator is needed here, and I'm still miffed they did so for efficiency.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Darzk

[Redhux]

I think it was a measure of future proofing to avoid complications if multiple reload modifiers were introduced.

I'm all for added transparency in warframe math though.

 

Who would be stupid enough to waste slots for 2 mods with the same effect? Except the DEVs, i don't see any player wishing that crap.

 

 

And yeah, the reload mechanism and informations about it have to be clarified significantly.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Redhux