Lex P Compared To Other Secondaries.

[DeMonkey]

vaykor marelok with the same crit build actually has a faster time to kill in many cases vs highest level enemies due to its higher status

 

Depends what you're fighting, as far as I can see the Lex P does more than enough damage to kill everything at Sortie level before the Marelok.

The only time the Marelok's status makes it better is beyond Sortie level, which is beyond the realms of game balance and not really worth discussing.

Again though, thread is not about the V Marelok.

Edited February 11, 2016 by DeMonkey

[Blakrana]

Poor Sicarus Prime...really does need love. Looks great...sounds pretty fun too, personally. Just isn't able to punch its weight. Time has not been kind to it.

[DeMonkey]

Every single pistol in this game is better than the lato. OP nerf please

 

What's the point of this comment? (Mk1-Furis is actually worse than Lato anyway).

[DarcnyssWolfe]

What's the point of this comment? (Mk1-Furis is actually worse than Lato anyway).

Debatable, if I'm not mistaken, can't the mk1 still use wings of purity? That alone would put the mk1 furis above the mk1 lato.

[------ArtOfViolence-----]

Thanks for crunching these numbers. Really amazing results indeed.  Any idea on where AkMagnus fits in here?

[DeMonkey]

Debatable, if I'm not mistaken, can't the mk1 still use wings of purity? That alone would put the mk1 furis above the mk1 lato.

 

It can yes, hadn't considered that. It's damage is still lower than the Lato's though, and new players (for whom it's most relevant) won't have access to Winds of Purity.

 

Thanks for crunching these numbers. Really amazing results indeed.  Any idea on where AkMagnus fits in here?

 

Heh, sure, not entirely relevant to the thread but gimme a mo :P

 

Using a crit build, 2 elementals and P Heated Charge it came out as...

 

12,734 sustained, lower than I thought it would be. It's burst DPS is 44,441 however. That massive reload time really screws with it. Would be pretty sweet to use with the auto reload whilst holstered mod. For comparison the V Marelok has a Burst DPS of 45,600 with the same build.

Edited February 11, 2016 by DeMonkey

[------ArtOfViolence-----]

 

It can yes, hadn't considered that. It's damage is still lower than the Lato's though, and new players (for whom it's most relevant) won't have access to Winds of Purity.

 

 

Heh, sure, not entirely relevant to the thread but gimme a mo :P

 

Using a crit build, 2 elementals and P Heated Charge it came out as...

 

12,734 sustained, lower than I thought it would be. It's burst DPS is 44,441 however. That massive reload time really screws with it. Would be pretty sweet to use with the auto reload whilst holstered mod. For comparison the V Marelok has a Burst DPS of 45,600 with the same build.

 

 

I see. well thanks for the info.  Hadn't yet realized the lex prime was such a monster.

[GSDAkatsuki]

I don't get these comments, I'm not asking for the Lex P to be rebalanced, so telling me that it's fine is literally pointless. It has nothing to do with the thread.

It's like you think this is a nerf thread...

Because you are calculating theoretical dps numbers where in a real situation you won't be mashing m1 button for dps with LexP. You are also comparing the weapon to very old weapons including lex's lore wise should be obsolete alternatives. Only weapon really there that should be taken a look at is Sicarus P. Vasto P isnt worth comparing yet as most likely it will get a link to become AkVasto P to achieve its true final form. There are 2ndaries that are as strong as lex p and can do better things that the Lex P can't. Your thread should just be a request thread to buff some older 2ndary weapons and not make a comparison to another weapon to achieve some sort of similar status. In that case though, we have plenty of those types of buff old weapons threads made every week. Issue is there will always be power creep and it's easier for devs to just move on with newer content then having to fix old outdated content. Edited February 12, 2016 by GSDAkatsuki

[DeMonkey]

Because you are calculating theoretical dps numbers where in a real situation you won't be mashing m1 button for dps. You are also comparing the weapon to very old weapons including lex's lore wise should be obsolete alternatives. Only weapon really there that should be taken a look at is Sicarus P. Vasto P isnt worth comparing yey ad most likely it will get a link to become AkVasto P ti achieve its true final form. There are 2ndaries that are as strong as lex p and can do better things that the Lex P can. Your thread should just be a request thread to buff some older 2ndary weapons and not make a comparison to another weapon to achieve some sort of similar status. In that case though, we have plenty of those types of buff old weapons threads made every week. Issue is there will always be power creep and it's easier for devs to just move on with newer content then having to fix old outdated content.

 

What are you even saying? Of course it's theoretical DPS, I never said otherwise. 

 

The entire point of this (that you have completely missed) is that the progression from standard to prime is completely messed up. Lex goes from 7k dps to 34k. A 27k difference. Vasto goes from ~9k to 20k, only 11k. The Sicarus P only gives 2k dps over the standard. 

 

Powercreep is one thing, but that's nonsensical balancing. These are weapons that should have been buffed along with the Lex P, rather than just buffing the Lex P and leaving everything else to rot.

 

May I ask why the Vasto P isn't worth comparing? It's a prime pistol, just like the Lex P and it's obtained from the void, just like the Lex P. They should be comparable.

[GSDAkatsuki]

What are you even saying? Of course it's theoretical DPS, I never said otherwise.

The entire point of this (that you have completely missed) is that the progression from standard to prime is completely messed up. Lex goes from 7k dps to 34k. A 27k difference. Vasto goes from ~9k to 20k, only 11k. The Sicarus P only gives 2k dps over the standard.

Powercreep is one thing, but that's nonsensical balancing. These are weapons that should have been buffed along with the Lex P, rather than just buffing the Lex P and leaving everything else to rot.

May I ask why the Vasto P isn't worth comparing? It's a prime pistol, just like the Lex P and it's obtained from the void, just like the Lex P. They should be comparable.

None of its older counterparts need to be buffed, because their damage is fine for the basic star chart. New players don't need crazy dps weapons to get through the star chart.

Lex's high point was its accurate sniper like status, not being a dual wield weapon. For the Vasto, AkVasto is the Vasto's final progression. Vasto P should not be compared to being the Lex P in the same category of marksman usage. Should wait for its AkVasto link being added.

Edited February 12, 2016 by GSDAkatsuki

[DeMonkey]

Lex's high point was its accurate sniper like status, not being a dual wield weapon. 

 

And yet it's got one of the lowest DPS's in the game, the argument in favour of Lex P's damage being fine is because it's not good against hordes. Does that not apply to the Lex? Or are we just rolling with double standards.

 

I never once compared the Vasto P to the Lex P in terms of marksman category, that's something you've randomly made up and inserted into your argument for no reason.

 

In fact, what even is the point you're trying to make? Everything is okay as it is? Gotcha, I disagree entirely, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Edited February 12, 2016 by DeMonkey

[-N7-Leonhart]

Lex P has like 2x the damage of V Marelok. But Marelok has a tiny bit more status? Sure, but that won't save it, since with that fire rate the proc rate will be small anyways. And against armor, Lex wins even witout 100% status, since puncture damage.

[IceColdHawk]

None of its older counterparts need to be buffed, because their damage is fine for the basic star chart. New players don't need crazy dps weapons to get through the star chart.

Lex Prime was still way better than vasto prime before it's buff. Now it's "comparing a moped to a monstertruck" ~DeMonkey. I'd be glad to see vastos get actually useful. The Akmagnus are pretty much superior in every way to the akvasto. God, those vastos look cool but i feel like i'm beginning a crime when entering missions with these. They could atleast get a damage buff (not too heavy though) and a high status chance to make use of their high slash damage. Not crazy dps on paper but still unique and useful in it's own way.

 

For the Vasto, AkVasto is the Vasto's final progression. Vasto P should not be compared to being the Lex P in the same category of marksman usage. Should wait for its AkVasto link being added.

So is AkLex to Lex. And so should be AkVasto Prime compared to AkLex Prime.

[----Fenrir----]

 

 

12,734 sustained, lower than I thought it would be. It's burst DPS is 44,441 however. That massive reload time really screws with it. Would be pretty sweet to use with the auto reload whilst holstered mod. For comparison the V Marelok has a Burst DPS of 45,600 with the same build.

 

 

Theoretical DPS values very often are far off from actual in-game values because a lot of things are usually not taken into account. For example the low magazine size of the Lex P encourages people to take their shots more carefully > increasing the time between shots > decreasing actual DPS.

 

With the AkMagnus, and to a lesser degree the Vaykor Marelok most people usually spam attacks as fast as they are able to because that behavior is encouraged by the larger magazine size. = less time between shots > better use of available DPS potential.

[DeMonkey]

Theoretical DPS values very often are far off from actual in-game values because a lot of things are usually not taken into account. For example the low magazine size of the Lex P encourages people to take their shots more carefully > increasing the time between shots > decreasing actual DPS.

Not telling me anything I don't already know.

With the AkMagnus, and to a lesser degree the Vaykor Marelok most people usually spam attacks as fast as they are able to because that behavior is encouraged by the larger magazine size. = less time between shots > better use of available DPS potential.

What's your point?

[SwooceRaiden]

Don't use Primed mods to calculate your build. Not everyone has access to those.

Also you should compare it with top tier DPS secondaries like Rakta Ballistica, Vaykor Marelok or Synoid Gammacor.

To have an optimal build Primed mods are necessary. That's the equivalent of saying to not factor Corrupted/Nightmare mods because there are people who don't have those either. And he explicitly said he was going for the best build for each weapon.

[ClinkzEastwood]

To have an optimal build Primed mods are necessary. That's the equivalent of saying to not factor Corrupted/Nightmare mods because there are people who don't have those either. And he explicitly said he was going for the best build for each weapon.

Corrupted mods worths 20 plats at most. Most can't even get pass 10

Primed mods worths 10-20 times higher.

And the most important thing is you can farm corrupted/nightmare mods, you can't farm primed mods at all.

Edited February 12, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[Darthmufin]

so sicarus prime is bad even when considering the status? i use mine all the time and up to level 50 grineer a heat and corrosive build works just fine for me. 

 

if by "bad" you mean it can't one shot level 500 heavy gunners in the void, then yeah, but please make that distinction that you are using higher level content as a comparison at a weapons usefulness on the start chart. 

[DeMonkey]

so sicarus prime is bad even when considering the status? i use mine all the time and up to level 50 grineer a heat and corrosive build works just fine for me.

if by "bad" you mean it can't one shot level 500 heavy gunners in the void, then yeah, but please make that distinction that you are using higher level content as a comparison at a weapons usefulness on the start chart.

Using a hyperbolic strawman to ridicule my point? You can do better than that. Regardless of the level fought Lex P has 25k DPS over the Sicarus Prime.

Yes Sicarus prime is also bad considering it's status, Vasto P has more status and more damage.

It deserves a buff.

Edited February 12, 2016 by DeMonkey

[IceColdHawk]

so sicarus prime is bad even when considering the status? i use mine all the time and up to level 50 grineer a heat and corrosive build works just fine for me. 

 

if by "bad" you mean it can't one shot level 500 heavy gunners in the void, then yeah, but please make that distinction that you are using higher level content as a comparison at a weapons usefulness on the start chart. 

Are you from the future, using the buffed sicarus prime? o_O. Because mine only has a status chance of 10%...and that on IPS!

[Laidain]

This weapon is death! 

[Hellmaker2004]

This weapon is death!

 

You got my hopes up, only to destroy it in the blink of a second with that video.

Maybe as a secondary for "late" game when you can't oneshot things anymore. But as i see it now, why take the time to proc all those things and and potentially keep a mob stun locked. When you could have killed them instead.

I really wish they tone up a lot of weapons to Lex P level, i want a AK weapon that make me feel like a gunslinger. Most AK weapons have to much spam involved.

[Djego27]

You got my hopes up, only to destroy it in the blink of a second with that video.

Maybe as a secondary for "late" game when you can't oneshot things anymore. But as i see it now, why take the time to proc all those things and and potentially keep a mob stun locked. When you could have killed them instead.

I really wish they tone up a lot of weapons to Lex P level, i want a AK weapon that make me feel like a gunslinger. Most AK weapons have to much spam involved.

 

I made several topics over the years about the akbronko prime, it looks good in theory but the reload speed + low clip size make it just a pain to use at high levels for prolonged time(it is kind of ok at lower levels with reload speed and magazine capacity mods, that you can't use in status builds) and 30% status means blast what kills your AOE dps more or less completely, same reason why the boar prime is just a bad weapon since U17 compared to the much better 40% status version of it before U17 that was just but fairly good compared to other prime weapons at high levels.

 

Even in L100 grenier sorti with extra armor they are hardly worth it and are far less useful, similar to status shotguns since U17, then status weapons that are not a absolute pain to use against very high armor levels what for the most part means status rifle this days(or just stack dps since this is still more or less in the range of what the current high dps weapons can do without status). In the end a status modded mara detron is just as good at L100(radiation/viral/fire) for overall performance as a status backup without being a absolute pain to use for prolonged time(11 rounds with a 1s reload vs 6 with a 2.3s reload). With 8 rounds, 1.7s reload and 40% status the akbronko prime would be in the same category, where it really would be a fair option at high levels, without driving you insane with a 2.3s reload that triggers every single second of use and blast damage, that makes it just a lot weaker then it has to be compared to other hand cannons.

 

As for the lex prime, it is mostly that it was balanced without taking primed crit mods into account and around the marelok, instead meting in the middle by nerfing the mareloks down to reasonable levels and bringing the lex prime up there as well.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Djego27

[Noreus]

The thing about Lex P is that if it's not this strong, it would be too weak. Other weapons have more utility, while Lex P is centered around doing damage.

[Hellmaker2004]

A lot of weapons are both weaker and with the same utility as Lex P. I am not saying Lex P need a nerf however. i am merely saying that there are way to many weapons that are valuable as Mastery fodder only. If anything a lot of weapons need to be brought up to an equal level.

Will there always be a top Primary or a Top secondary weapon. Of course there will be, but we could hope for the gap to be closed rather than widened.