Melee 2.0: Shiny, But Useless Toy.

[letir]

New melee system will be useless. It can be "beautiful", "imbalanced", "glitchy" etc - but it will be useless in real game.

 

 

Let's make it clean - Warframe is TPS with simplified combat mechanics. Game balance designed for a gunfight, and also has other problems on its own.

 

Main problems:

1) Ranged weapon master race.

It's quite simple: Risk vs. Reward. Ranged weapons have a minimal risk, but highest reward. You can kill enemies one by one from cover, or kite infected without the slightest danger. Moreover, ranged weapon has the highest damage, can penetrate obstacles (modding) and has a large reserve of ammunition (it can be replenished during the mission).

 

2) Powers.

Press 4 to win. To be invisible. To be immortal. To wipe room. To control room. To be contined...

 

3) Game balance.

a) СС problems - inevitable and irresistible control effects.

b) Tank vs late game - insane damage from high level enemies can easy kill any tank. It's fight of glasscannons.

с) Lack of combat etiquette - enemies can freely attack you in crowds, without any hindrances.

 

 

 

What need to be done for REAL Melee 2.0:

1) Absolute block and parry system.

Not DMC, but Jedy Knight and Metal Gear Rising battle type.

 

a) Bullet deflection - when you hold melee weapon, all "light" ranged attacks reflected automaticly. If you attack, it's changed to damage reduction - signifcantly lowered ranged damage.

b) Absolute block - special block can hold any sort of attack, defend from any CC effect.

c) Parry and counter - time-stricted action. Can open enemy for deadly/very strong (for bosses and leaders) counterattack, return "heavy" projectile to sender.

 

"Light" = bullets, plasma projectiles, etc. - any "usual" shot.

"Heavy" = rockets, Milter's disks, etc.

"Irresistible" = sniper's shot - сan not be parried or reflected, blockable only.

 

Block must work in ANY direction, not just in front.

 

2) Enemy diversity.

All fractions adopted to modern warfare. They create new armor, shields and tactics to counter gunfire. What's why Way of the Sword is still alive - Tenno sword can beat unbeateable.

 

3) HP, tanking and CC system rework.

a) Rework of defence - defence modules with better effect. Real tank must miltigate some damage even on high levels, even from most dangerous enemies.

b) Stricted CC - all control effects can be avoided or blocked. There isn't any "insta-AOE-knockdown" or "infinity-chain-of-stuns". Handspring for free.

 

"You just wanna faceroll Pluto/T3/Nightmare!"

I want a chance to use my sword against Grineer squad or pack of Ancients/Chargers. Without the risk of being killed on the spot/controlled to the death.

 

 

4) Stricked ammunition for ranged weapon.

Each weapon should be limited to 1-3 clips. Supply of ammunition should be significantly limited. Ammo drops must die.

On Defence/Survival Lotus give you ammo drops.

 

That's the way to balance everything without nerfs. Use your gun now, or keep ammo for future boss? Kill this crowd with rocket launcher or take down armored leader without melee battle? Choices and decisions.

 

 

5) Stricked powers.

CD's and "rage" concept - you can gain energy only for damage/kill, melee give more energy.

 

 

 

P.S. "It's too difficult, you want to destroy the fun!"

I want VIABLE melee - not just funny toy. And simple shooter with unlimited powers can't have viable melee - there is just no way. It's question of game balance - every "melee orientated game" must strict ranged weapons.

 

P.P.S. Solved problems:

1. Ranged weapon master race 50%.

а) Melee weapon is much stronger now.

 

2. Game balance 20%

a) Block/parry system is created (but not completed).

b) CC effect can be blocked (part of them cannot be blocked).

Edited April 10, 2014 by letir

[Zhoyzu]

needs some spell checking.

 

also keep this away from fire. strawmans can burn easy

[Guest]

Oh boy. I already got singed just by looking at this thread.

 

Sorry OP... you're just asking for a massive re-do of everything Warframe. I don't see it being done.

[Deidaku]

 

 

Let's make it clean - Warframe is FPS with simplified combat mechanics.

 

 

No  , because of this all of your argument / complaint is bogus

 

No one has even tried the system and you're already complaining. 

 

Of course it won't be perfect , that's why we're going to do our job( and by job I mean have fun bashing grineer heads ) and beta test it!

[TrashSpider]

Already complaining when you haven't even tried it? Also melee is still viable, in fact I go all melee in survival and it suit me fine. 

[MaverickZero]

This changes the genre that Warframe belongs to. Your suggestions are highly unadvised. You lose a crowd for a small group - it's a losing situation.

[Sev7n]

Just going to point out we can block with our melee weapons (even have auto block mods), and we have mods that redirect the damage blocked back to the enemy all seem like they will be pretty viable once melee 2.0 hits

[Stuifiee]

Please, no bloody QTE's. If they put QTE's in Warframe I'm out.

Also, M2.0 hasn't even been released. You don't know how it will play out. Nobody does.

[NalkorRN]

New melee system will be useless. It can be "beautiful", "imbalanced", "glitchy" etc - but it will be useless in real game.

 

 

Let's make it clean - Warframe is FPS with simplified combat mechanics. Game balance designed for a gunfight, and also has other problems on its own.

 

Main problems:

1) Ranged weapon master race.

It's quite simple: Risk vs. Reward. Ranged weapons have a minimal risk, but highest reward. You can kill enemies one by one from cover, or kite infected without the slightest danger. Moreover, ranged weapon has the highest damage, can penetrate obstacles (modding) and has a large reserve of ammunition (it can be replenished during the mission).

 

2) Powers.

Press 4 to win. To be invisible. To be immortal. To wipe room. To control room. To be contined...

 

3) Game balance.

a) СС problems - inevitable and irresistible control effects.

b) Tank vs late game - insane damage from high level enemies can easy kill any tank. It's fight of glasscannons.

с) Lack of combat etiquette - enemies can freely attack you in crowds, without any hindrances.

 

 

 

What need to be done for REAL Melee 2.0:

1) Absolute block and parry system.

Not DMC, but Jedy Knight and Metal Gear Rising battle type.

 

Tenno can block EVERYTHING with blade - bullet, rocket, death ray, and even return it to the sender. They have deadly counterattacks, able to destroy a tank in one hit.

Parry sequince have timing and QTE - very difficult and challenging. Every enemy have his own QTE (gunners have simple and obvious, melee fighters have difficult), and it's length/speed imroved with level.

 

 

2) Enemy diversity.

All fractions adopted to modern warfare. They create new armor, shields and tactics to counter gunfire. What's why Way of the Sword is still alive - Tenno sword can beat unbeateable.

 

 

3) HP, tanking and CC system rework.

a) Rework of defence - defence modules with better effect. Real tank must miltigate some damage even on high levels, even from most dangerous enemies.

b) Stricted CC - all control effects can be avoided or blocked. There isn't any "insta-AOE-knockdown" or "infinity-chain-of-stuns". Handspring for free.

 

"You just wanna faceroll Pluto/T3/Nightmare!"

I want a chance to use my sword against Grineer squad or pack of Ancients/Chargers. Without the risk of being killed on the spot/controlled to the death.

 

 

4) Stricked ammunition for ranged weapon.

Each weapon should be limited to 1-3 clips. Supply of ammunition should be significantly limited. Ammo drops must die.

On Defence/Survival Lotus give you ammo drops.

 

That's the way to balance everything without nerfs. Use your gun now, or keep ammo for future boss? Kill this crowd with rocket launcher or take down armored leader without melee battle? Choices and decisions.

 

 

5) Stricked powers.

CD's and "rage" concept - you can gain energy only for damage/kill, melee give more energy.

 

 

 

P.S. "It's too difficult, you want to destroy the fun!"

I want VIABLE melee - not just funny toy. And simple shooter with unlimited powers can't have viable melee - there is just no way. It's question of game balance - every "melee orientated game" must strict ranged weapons.

You do know the restricted ammo limit would kill virtually all weapons aside from a few like the Phage, right? 1-3 clips? Well then you better make it rain ammo left and right or else every single bow user will hate you with the burning fury of a thousand suns.

 

You aren't just asking for viable melee, you're asking for ranged weapons to be heavily nerfed and try to claim that will make melee balanced. Guess what? Unless the dude with the knife closes in, the dude with the gun will almost always come out on top. The enemy ranged weapon users gang up on you? Good, that's what would happen, you'd be shot to piece for charging against a group of rifle/shotgun wielding soldiers with a sword/hammer/whip.

 

Melee will never be viable because guns are just that much more lethal.

 

Also, Phage users such as myself would laugh at the idea of only having a few spare magazines (clips go in the magazines, you should know this) because with Shotgun Ammo Mutation, we'd never, ever run out of ammo due to how insanely efficient it is.

[letir]

No  , because of this all of your argument / complaint is bogus

 

No one has even tried the system and you're already complaining. 

 

Of course it won't be perfect , that's why we're going to do our job( and by job I mean have fun bashing grineer heads ) and beta test it!

I have some game experience from other slahers/shooters/hybrids.

Edited March 13, 2014 by letir

[MaverickZero]

I highly suggest picking up Dmc (Devil May Cry) to the OP. That is exactly what you are asking for.

[Warriorrogue]

Firstly, there are new mobs coming out that will focus on melee

Secondly, parrying will exist, although not qte.

Thirdly, the clip thing will ruin any with a tiny clip, or a high fire rate. 

Fourthly, you're asking to change warframe as a whole. So no.

 

I have some game experience from other slahers/shooters/hybrids.

But is this on of those other shooters?

No.

This is warframe.

[alphex]

Is he serious?

[letir]

I highly suggest picking up Dmc (Devil May Cry) to the OP. That is exactly what you are asking for.

Nope.

DMC don't have any viable ranged weapon, but have stricted battle arenas and mostly melee enemies. It's pure s-s-stylish shalsher.

[FlanShark]

^^^ Gunfetishist """realism""" bs detected ;)

Anyway OP, why don't we wait until they release it to judge? They've mentioned many of these concerns in livestreams, I don't particularly think they'll have anything like a polished system on launch, but that's how it goes in this game.

They put a thing in, it's got promise a-plenty, some of that promise gets realised startlingly fast, some gets realised mystifyingly slow, some never does.

I'll wait until I can play it, before I judge it, personally.

[fatpig84]

Lack of combat etiquette?

That made me laugh.

 

Anyone will shoot you if they had a gun and are hell bent to kill you. What are you expecting ?

Everyone waiting for a chance to shoot you ? Or becoming stupid and trying to melee, a ninja that has no issues bisecting armored troopers that look like they weigh a ton in half at close range ?

 

Dude, I rather shoot. It is like you trying to melee a bear.

And also QTE ?

GOD QTES ARE OVER DONE. PERIOD.

 

 

Sorry the caps.

Edited March 13, 2014 by fatpig84

[SpilockT_T]

Oh, have you try Melee 2.0 yet?

No?

 

So keep it to yourself.

[letir]

But is this on of those other shooters?

No.

This is warframe.

Jedi Knight - hybrid. You can shoot or fight in melee and have superpowers.

 

Why use lightsaber? Reasons:

1) Absolute block.

2) Lightsaber (especially combo) is most powerful weapon in the game.

3) Enemies with bullet deflect (other Power users) or bullet resist.

4) Energy source is limited.

Edited March 13, 2014 by letir

[MaverickZero]

Nope.

DMC don't have any viable ranged weapon, but have stricted battle arenas and mostly melee enemies. It's pure s-s-stylish shalsher.

It does have ranged and the arenas are like rooms in Warframe. It's the closest thing to what you described.

[Zareek]

I think its fine that someone takes their time to consider the upcomming update, and then share their thought. Maybe he is on to something that DE would have to consider before releasing the update. Even if just a little.

[letir]

Oh, have you try Melee 2.0 yet?

No?

 

So keep it to yourself.

You engaging Napalm 40 lvl. He's knocked you down with unavoidable AOE and finish fight with one-two shots.

[MaverickZero]

Jedi Knight - hybrid. You can shoot or fight in melee and have superpowers.

 

Why use lightsaber? Reasons:

1) Absolute block.

2) Lightsaber (especially combo) is most powerful weapon in the game.

3) Enemies with bullet deflect (other Power users) or bullet resist.

4) Energy source is limited.

Then shouldn't the enemy have the same swords/abilities? Then anyone with a gun loses any battle and all the grineer and corpus will ditch guns for swords. The Tenno would lose in such a situation.

[letir]

It does have ranged and the arenas are like rooms in Warframe. It's the closest thing to what you described.

Closest is Jedi Knight.

[SpilockT_T]

You engaging Napalm 40 lvl. He's knocked you down with unavoidable AOE and finish fight with one-two shots.

 

You still doesn't know how Melee 2.0 works <_<

[MaverickZero]

Closest is Jedi Knight.

I presume you still play it then? you should probably keep doing that because Warframe is entirely different.