Obe-Ron-Kenobi

Tellin ya, if you give Embers WoF to her 2 at max meter and increased the drain, most of the peoples complaints would be dispelled.

Suppose that could work, but all in all feels quite similar to WoF no? I mean, besides the drain which I assume there is none. But thats why I think its not too much of a stretch to include WoF in the ability at max meter. Call me sadistic if you like, but I do feel there should be some form of energy drain at max meter. It encourages paying attention and managing your abilities which is kind of a micro game within itself and it helps to make a kit at least feel interactive and synergistic (which in turn makes me feel smart when i pull it off). That being said, no way in hell I support a full energy drain immediately on max meter (unless maybe its an instant kill to everything around me in 20m). This is why I suggest rewarding the player for using their abilities with the power of WoF (maybe even a bit stronger) at a higher drain. This allows for more ways to build the fiery frame, increases the value of managing meter economy, and makes you seem super unstoppable at max meter (which you worked for) but still is a double edged sword since it costs so much. That way those who don't want to pay attention to WoF at all aren't forced to, those who love WoF can still have some way of using it, and no one has to suffer an immediate full energy drain. Plus her firequake augment (arguably her most fun augment) can remain untouched or have a new benefit for her two (like combining it with flash accelerant)! Now, maybe instead of WoF shrinking the longer its active, the reverse can happen like you are suggesting. This way, the longer you can maintain a really high energy drain, the more effective you are at killing/CC. Just food for thought.

As it stands the only way they'd give her that capability would be to replace her passive (else her two would be way to similar to gauss) which I am not a fan of because I like spicy. But I love the idea! Makes sense thematically and would be really cool gameplay wise. I think DE could totally work that into a sick augment! Perhaps give it to her second ability and keep its current functionality (loose energy at 100% meter) but allow players a way to gain more energy via the fire procs. Then the base ability can retain the proposed WoF change and everybody is happy! Im much more partial to the idea that fire procs will do that anyway (as proposed), since it'll not only make ember better, but every mod that has fire damage as well.

Im curious as to which abilities are you most upset to see go and why?

Thanks! I think its a good compromise between the two sides of the ember debate, I'm happy you can at least tentatively agree. OOHH okay, that makes more sense lol. I mean, I dunno just cause it looks cool I guess 😂 least that's what I thought. Not everyone's cup of tea I imagine. Gonna be hilarious in an enclosed ship space.

Thing is, Im saying the ability should be included in her kit, but not the focus of the ability slot (if that makes any sense). Its just a spicy little bonus for her 2nd ability but isn't the main focus of it. Sure, WoF on its own I can agree is a bit lackluster, but if fire procs are being improved and ability damage is buffed according to her meter then it will provide some damage that WoF currently lacks. Besides everyone uses it for firequake anyway, which can easily remain the same as an augment if her new 2 gains Wof functionality at max meter. Sure its not the best ability, we agree on that, and Im not proposing it become anything spectacular either. I am simply in favor of giving long time Ember mains at least the chance to use a part of her kit that they have loved and an alternative to getting your energy completely drained at full meter. This way, if you don't like WoF, you don't even have to acknowledge its existence it'll just remain as an unobtrusive way to build Ember in a different playstyle. Build variety is always a good thing and the more ways you can make a warframe fill a specific niche the better in my book. Keeping in a DoT AoE ability is good as it is very distinguishable from all the burst damage she does with all other aspects of her kit. Also if you're unimpressed with the meteor visuals than I'm afraid you're not really going to be satisfied with flame effects in warframe in general. Then again, its also all a matter of taste. I never really saw a problem with WoF visuals, but clearly some do. This is purely subjective and in my opinion doesn't affect functionality at all, which is what Im arguing over.

Us Oberon mains wish for the day it becomes a feature... keep hoping brother.

This is a good idea I had never even considered. Would love to see pets stronger this way.

You know, we have so many types of enemies in this game, yet none of them interact with walls any. I don't know why, but I find this kind of odd, especially considering Warframes verticality. So I have an idea, imagine: freaky lookin large hexapods that crawl on walls and are generally very discrete and out of reach. Ranged only units (mostly) that camps walls (I swear I'm not trying to copy Halo 3's pure ranged forms). Two different variants: combatants and spawners. (subclass names not final) Combatants are fast and have a rapid fire-like "needler-esque" attack. Crawl all over walls and attempt to hit you a bunch and then hide/run away. Has to be stationary when shooting. They can secrete stuff (similar to infested moas) that stick to walls that blind and hold you in place (if you're on the wall) for 2-4 seconds. Combatants can pounce off walls if you're close enough and attempt to grapple you for massive melee damage, but prefer to stay on walls and only do so when in around ~10m range. Aesthetic wise they are relatively average in size, a bit larger than a charger. I imagine they have leg joints that contort like a spider (see spoiler image) but have moa legs that have been infestified. Body is a big organic blob with an abdomen. Abdomen has a big glowing green part on the underside which indicates its weakness. Front section has two tiny Grineer arms sticking out to grapple prey. Alongside its back, two sections unfold where tons of spikes stick out and shoot when an enemy is seen. Head is like an ant and an ancient healer had a terrible one night stand. Spawners go invisible if they aren't moving and stick egg sacks to walls spawning either infested drones, maggots, or combatants. Very slow. Have a sniper like weapon that shoots for a LOT of damage at a long range but has extremely slow fire rate (worse than Grineer snipers, but same visuals because the spawner uses a still half sentient Grineer incorporated into their biomass) Aesthetic wise they are a bit larger than the combatants. The color depends on the location, as like a cephalopod, they attempt to match the color of wall they are on. Usually invisible anyway though, only seen when charging sniper shot. Similar body structure to combatants but with a few key differences: Abdomen is greatly enlarged (how it plants eggs). Protruding from the abdomen is a large biomass connecting the body to abdomen (very similar to boiler body) however, sticking out of the boiler-like body is half of a Grineer sniper with one arm and head intact, which the spawner uses to snipe victims from afar. Instead of moa feet, it has hands on the tips of its legs. Weak-spot glows orange but only glows if flipped over. Can shoot them off walls by targeting each leg. Weak spot for both is under six legs (think of the skultula weak spots in zelda) which is extremely susceptible to impact. If a combatant is flipped over exposing this spot, you can preform a ground finisher on them, otherwise they are immune to finishers. These enemies are intended to be ancients, so they don't spawn at super high frequencies but will as difficulty ramps up. This is likely a very tall order since it would require programming pathing for walls (which I'm sure would be a pain in certain level geometry) but I feel like this would add some excellent variety to the infested class. Hardly any of them are ranged units, and having special encounters with enemies that are generally stealthy would both be spooky and somewhat tactical (hunting down spawners, jumping and parkouring your way to combatants etc.). Overall, I think it would be really fun to see a unique type of game play added to the rather standard faction. Thank you all for reading! Hope to have good discussions with you while you're here! (No art to speak of at the moment unfortunately... hopefully soon tm)

I hate to sound like a broken record since I've been saying this on a few other posts, but I believe there exists a compromise between those who hate WoF and those who love WoF. Instead of throwing it out completely, I think that WoF can be mapped to ember's new second ability. Instead of the proposed "loose all your energy for using your abilities naturally" have the 100% threshold on your meter make ember "overheat", giving us the old WoF but with a much higher energy drain. This helps make the ability not so brainless, as you've got to work for it to activate it and manage your much increased energy consumption but it allows players who have loved WoF for so long not have their favorite ability taken away (normally that's not the best argument, but Ember is one of the oldest frames in the game, and a lot of tenno have made that ability work despite its glaring flaws... so I don't think it should be completely removed). The upside to my proposal for those who vehemently hate WoF is that if you reach 100% meter you can dispel it anyway with your 3 (or deactivating 2) without being too harshly punished for going to 100%. This gives a better emphasis on meter economy and allows negative efficiency builds to still nuke how they wanna nuke without having to worry about WoF being forced on anyone's game play. An augment may be a good idea, perhaps a replacement for one of her old ones, but as it stands I think it works fine if WoF is baked into her 2 on its own. I may not have much of a dog in this fight as Ember is my least played Warframe, but I know a lot of people are passionate about her and I'd hate to see one of their favorite aspects of the game to be gone. Plus, having a way to keep WoF would increase build diversity (as there would be a higher emphasis on DoT and efficiency rather than nuke) and I am always in high favor of more build variety. Its easily my favorite aspect of this game! More options are always a good thing.

In my opinion, instead of draining all her energy at once, once you hit 100% on the fire meter you go into an "overheat" mode which is just WoF but with CRAZY DRAIN. Like, big boy numbers, you'll need a lot of efficiency and rage to keep it going but, because of ember's new fire damage, WoF will be rightfully saucy. This will dispel those who are heartbroken that WoF is leaving, and it won't punish players who don't care much about not using WoF but don't want all of their energy gone for not managing something correctly. (edit: this will be routed to her 2nd ability)

I agree, as a PC player who is sadistic enough to use a controller I also wish for more functionality with hold abilities.

If I may bud in, I think that Ember's new 2 should include WoF (just at an increased drain) once you max out the new fire meter. This way, instead of immediately draining all your energy for just naturally doing ember things, you'll be rewarded with an "overheat mode" where, well.. the world burns around you essentially. By allowing her 2 to include either a pseudo WoF (or just the real deal at a high energy drain) those who really preferred her before changes will be happy, and those who want to go straight nuke and don't want to build for WoF anymore don't have to (but they won't be punished for going full meter, which will inevitably happen). I do like the idea that Ember needs to "cool off" by releasing flames with her 3 and I think that should remain the way to turn off WoF (as it makes sense for meter economy), but as it stands I don't see why her old 4 can't remain a part of her kit with just a little bit more effort to activate it.

Plus, since her 3 is almost strictly used off of gauge economy, you'd have to find a workaround for it too. But I like the idea of releasing gauge with 3 and using energy for pretty much everything else.

Most everyone can agree the all energy gone equals bad, and I agree in that it shouldn't be the focus of the gauge. The point where our views differ is how the makeshift WoF is supposed to play out. I like the idea that its similar to Gauss in that you need to continue using abilities to keep it active, but I think in order to distinguish Ember more from Gauss the ability should be more of an "overheat mode" that consumes energy rather than gauge. This would allow tenno who still want ember strictly for WoF able to sort of build for it with efficiency rather than strictly duration for the WoF flame buff when gauge is full.