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Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: Hydroid Rework

[DE]Juice

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Posted by [DE]Juice,

Tenno, with Abyss of Dagath now live and these changes at your fingertips, I would like to direct you to the official update notes for the final iteration of this content (including more a few late QOL additions, such as cancelling Tidal Surge while in airborne) and use our official Abyss of Dagath subforum to share your bugs and feedback.  Thank you for your dedicated feedback on the issue, both in this thread and your continued feedback now that you have a chance to use Hydroid with his r
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[DE]Juice

[DE]Juice

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This is but one of our many Dev Workshops for Abyss of Dagath. To see what other changes are coming in this update, check out our other posts here:

------

Tenno!

For those of you with an interest in the sea, who wish to use the murky depths to drown your foes, this workshop is for you! Hydroid is receiving a rework with the Abyss of Dagath update on October 18th! This Developer Workshop is focused entirely on what changes Hydroid will be receiving and why we are making these changes.

The goal of the Hydroid rework is to keep his unique style while making him both easier to use and bring his power more in line with other Warframes. This means changing how his abilities work through changes to their damage types, removing charging mechanics, and making enemies easier to hit while they are wrapped up in his abilities. Additionally, it means reworking his passive and removing the Undertow ability, replacing it with the new Plunder ability.

For a closer look at our deadly marauder of the deep, let's dive right in!

Abyss_of_Dagath_Rework_Images_Hydroid_1080_Final.png

Changing Impact Damage to Corrosive Damage and Status
Currently, Tempest Barrage and Tidal Surge both deal Impact damage. This is being changed to Corrosive Damage, which can apply Corrosive Status. Corroding Barrage is a widely used Augment Mod by those who play Hydroid currently, which causes Corrosive Status for Tempest Barrage, and due to its popularity, we looked to incorporate its effect into Hydroid at a base level. We felt changing Impact to Corrosive damage in Hydroid’s abilities makes them more thematic to the sea while also incorporating Corroding Barrage’s current effect in a meaningful way. With this change in mind, Corroding Barrage will now apply Viral Status instead of Corrosive - more details on that below.

Passive Changes
Hydroid’s existing Passive has a chance to spawn a tentacle when performing a melee slam attack. We are removing the existing passive entirely to be replaced by an entirely new effect.

The nature of Hydroid’s existing passive pushed players to a very specific playstyle (regular usage of melee slam attacks), while not guaranteeing anything useful from each individual slam. We wanted to make the passive feel more reliable and impactful.

Hydroid’s new Passive will affect an enemy once Hydroid damages them, lasting until their death. It makes the first instance of Corrosive Status on an enemy remove 50% of their Armor rather than 26%. Not only will this make the first Corrosive Status stronger, but it also means Corrosion Status can reach 100% armor reduction with full stacks!

To clarify, this means Hydroid does not need to apply all, or even any, of the Corrosive Status Effects on an enemy. As long as Hydroid has damaged the enemy, the Corrosive Status Effects can be applied from any source and will receive the benefit.

You can see the Passive in action in the Ability clips below.

Removing Charge Mechanics
In an effort to make Hydroid more approachable, we are removing the charge mechanic on Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm. The full charge values will now apply baseline to each cast of the abilities.

For example, currently, an uncharged Tentacle Swarm will have 40% of the tentacles and 33% of the radius compared to a fully charged cast. With this change, both tentacle count and radius will always be the maximum, what a fully charged cast is currently.

This change makes Hydroid’s play more fluid, with more time spent attacking rather than charging abilities for their maximum effect.

Ability Changes

Tempest Barrage:

  • Damage dealt will cause enemies to stagger, rather than ragdoll.
    • This should make enemies easier to kill, as they will stay in the range of Hydroid’s other abilities and be more open to Headshots.
  • The Corroding Barrage Augment Mod has been renamed Viral Tempest and will have a chance to apply a Viral Status Effect, rather than Corrosive.
    • Changing the Impact damage of Tempest Barrage to Corrosive damage meant the Corrosive Status Effect from the Augment was already included. We changed this to Viral to maintain its relevance with the other changes.

Tempest Barrage & Passive.gif

Tempest Barrage will stagger enemies instead of ragdoll, making them easier to target.

Tidal Surge:

  • Will allow some steering of the wave for more control over where Hydroid and his enemies end up when the ability is finished.
  • Tidal Surge no longer violently flings carried enemies at the end of the surge, and will instead deposit them where the surge ends.
    • This should make Tidal Surge a better ability for grouping enemies and quick killing, as opposed to flinging them across the room.
  • Tidal Surge will apply Corrosive Status Effects to enemies based on how long they are carried by its waves.
  • Tidal Surge will cleanse all of Hydroid’s negative Status Effects.
    • This brings one of the benefits from the Tidal Impunity Augment Mod into the ability directly, to keep some survivability in Hydroid's abilities with Undertow’s removal.

Tidal Surge.gif

Tidal Surge will carry enemies with the wave, depositing them where the wave ends instead of throwing them forward.
 

Undertow:

  • This ability is being removed and replaced with Plunder.
    • Undertow is an ability which we feel makes Hydroid a bit less fun to play as, or play with. There are two main reasons we decided to replace this ability:
      • It forces the player to be stationary, while many objectives rely on regular movement.
      • It absorbs enemies without instantly killing them, which can lead to instances of hiding enemies that a teammate was trying to kill.

Plunder:

  • A new ability added to Hydroid’s third ability slot.
  • All enemies in range will have Corrosive Status Effects remove their armor permanently, increasing Hydroid’s armor and granting bonus Corrosive damage to weapons.
    • This ability is stronger based on the number of Corrosive Status Effects applied to the enemies affected by Plunder.
    • This means with a full stack of Corrosive Status, their Armor will be removed permanently.
  • The Curative Undertow Augment Mod is being renamed Rousing Plunder and will cause Plunder to heal Hydroid and his allies within Affinity Range.

Plunder Armor.gif

Plunder removes Armor based on Corrosive Status Effects on an enemy. It also provides an Armor and Damage Buff, tracked in the lower-right corner of the HUD.
 

Tentacle Swarm:

  • Will now hold enemies in a steadier position, making it easier to eliminate enemies locked down by Tentacles.

Tentacle Swarm.gif

Tentacle Swarm will now hold enemies still for easy targeting, rather than violently shaking them about.
 

We look forward to seeing a wave of Hydroids drowning their enemies across the Origin System with the Abyss of Dagath Update on October 18th!

Don’t forget to check out the other Dev Workshops for the Abyss of Dagath Update!

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Voltage

Voltage

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4 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

What about the augment?

Khora completely killed the relevance of Hydroid with Pilfering Strangledome, so I am curious about this as well. It would be nice if there was a brand new augment, maybe something special like how Funnel Clouds works for Zephyr.

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bangarang35

bangarang35

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I highly implore DE to consider tweaking how pilfering swarm augment is activated. It'd be better if enemies dropped the loot so long as they're killed by Hydroids abilities which is possible now since he gets a huge dmg spike with corrosive procs and armor strip. The frequency of increased loot drops for other loot frames like Khora and Nekros is so much higher than Hydroid still. His augment need to be tweaked in a way that can increase his loot drop frequency to be competitive as a loot frame. there might be a few ways to skin this cat but his increased loot drop frequency should be increased by somehow changing how it's activated.

 

Also, very sad for undertow. Wish the other methods in testing to pull enemies in the puddle could have been pulled off. Pluder sounds effective though. More feedback coming upon release

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bangarang35

bangarang35

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2 hours ago, (NSW)Yeyeg said:

Was really hoping theyd change how tentacles spawn in his 4th ability, its way too unreliable having it be at random or on enemies

this. improved positioning of tentacles would be HUGE for Hydroid

 

Correction: I think Pablo actually said in Devstream that if a enemy walks into the AOE of the attack then any tentacle can grab regardless of location.

Edited by bangarang35
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Voltage

Voltage

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Just now, DeeDeeLyla said:

A 100% chance and a 65% chance are not the same thing, or do you like farming Grove Specters with Khora instead?

You're describing a very specific niche where Hydroid isn't entirely useless by comparison to Khora. If Grove Specters functioned like other VIP enemies, he wouldn't work at all. Technicalities don't make my perspective less true. Hydroid used to be a staple Warframe before Pilfering Strangledome. That single augment has led to a decline in usage so far that we are getting this rework today. It would be nice if he was given a new augment to make the Warframe ability actually practical instead of preserving it for a one-off farm for cheap mods that would be an acceptable loss overall.

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AegidiusF

AegidiusF

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Il y a 5 heures, [DE]Juice a dit :

It absorbs enemies without instantly killing them, which can lead to instances of hiding enemies that a teammate was trying to kill.

Yes, true, but teammates were able to kill enemies inside the puddle with weapons and abilities : this information was even in the game tips.

The new ability looks better than Undertow and the rework looks great (I'm really looking forward to try the "new" Hydroid), but it's kind of sad to lose the puddle : many were asking for his Tidal Surge and Undertow to be merged onto a single ability with a tap/hold mechanic. Perhaps this would have been better than just removing Undertow.

Anyway, great work with Hydroid ! 

Edited by (NSW)AegisFifi
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CosoMalvadoNG

CosoMalvadoNG

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It looks good, I hope it works well.

hace 3 minutos, (NSW)AegisFifi dijo:

Yes, true, but teammates werre able to kill enemies inside the puddle with weapons and abilities : this information was even in the game tips.

The thing is that not everyone sees the tips friends, someone has no idea about a warframe and would think that you are hiding the enemies and would not even try to kill them while they are in the puddle. I liked the puddle but the new skill is team friendly and that's it.

Edited by CosoMalvadoNG
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JimmuTanno88

JimmuTanno88

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I'm becoming kind of concerned, first we don't get any new CC gamemodes for years, then we don't get any CC frames for years, then cc as a system gets nerfed by overguard, then EXISTING CC frames start to loose said CC? 👁️👁️'

I guess its the progess of any game that 'non meta things get removed' but I really hope we are not approaching the final end of crowd control, though I guess I must be in the minority in that regard.

 

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CosoMalvadoNG

CosoMalvadoNG

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hace 1 minuto, JimmuTanno88 dijo:

I'm becoming kind of concerned, first we don't get any new CC gamemodes for years, then we don't get any CC frames for years, then cc as a system gets nerfed by overguard, then EXISTING CC frames start to loose said CC? 👁️👁️'

I guess its the progess of any game that 'non meta things get removed' but I really hope we are not approaching the final end of crowd control, though I guess I must be in the minority in that regard.

 

I play frost and I have no problems with overguard. Just CC the majority of the enemies and kill the eximus quickly, it's not complicated.

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(NSW)Yeyeg

(NSW)Yeyeg

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3 minutes ago, JimmuTanno88 said:

I'm becoming kind of concerned, first we don't get any new CC gamemodes for years, then we don't get any CC frames for years, then cc as a system gets nerfed by overguard, then EXISTING CC frames start to loose said CC? 👁️👁️'

I guess its the progess of any game that 'non meta things get removed' but I really hope we are not approaching the final end of crowd control, though I guess I must be in the minority in that regard.

 

Hydroid is keeping most of his cc so i don't see where you are coming from there

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Veknanita

Veknanita

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Any changes are more than welcome for Hydroid. Really hoping they work nice and he can become a more viable frame. Overall happy for how the rework (even tho most of this things have been requested for literally years), will improve my boy.

EDIT>> As many other people have mentioned, I am also one of those that think that Tidal and Undertow should be merged into one ability (tap to use tidal, hold for puddle). Also, why not leave the kraken thing on his 4 ability permanently present for as long as the ability lasts, with a chance to instantlly "eat" (execute), enemies at a certain life threshold?

Edited by Veknanita
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Cluosion

Cluosion

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As a long time hydroid fan since he was released, I liked the adjustments to his 1 and 2 but kinda wish his new 4th ripped apart enemies or did something more with the tentacles since its an ultimate.

The main issue I have with the rework is that undertow was super cool and a unique ability, sad to see it get reduced to a semi passive armor strip ability to help his global passive when so many other options of armor stripping exist. I would much rather him keep the undertow ability and you could even factor plunder into undertow as a background part of the ability, like it starts the process of plunder. Undertow could've been improved to make more people want to use it instead of deleting it, for example as a pirate hydroid should be about loot and offer more loot from enemies somehow like his 4th's augment, or do a bunch more damage since its a whole kraken fighting the enemies in the puddle. Another way to improve undertow is to allow it to be a puddle separate from hydroid that people can shoot into for increased dmg like mag + its normal kraken damage.

I will definitely be sad to see undertow go, was a unique active ability that was replaced by an interesting but generic ability in comparison. 

Edited by Cluosion
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DeeDeeLyla

DeeDeeLyla

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26 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

People are sick and just looking for something to complain about when they haven't even tried it. Hilarious.

That's exactly why I usually (if not always) take a "wait and see" approach with in-game changes, including with and specially those that initially come off to me as seemingly bad, before giving my more-or-less finalized feedback on something

Edited by DeeDeeLyla
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