Wolfnrun
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Posts posted by Wolfnrun
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R.I.P Abominations, will they ever make a return???
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Just now, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:
i bet she is semi disgusted with us all ...
but the random creature feature creation is a bit addictive..... along with being nightmare fuel ...i need some alcohol to chase away these memories ...
though i like the post it dogs the best honestly
An adorable abomination!!!
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@[DE]Danielle Can we have just a few more days???
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37 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:
I would hurry! The next hotfix will prevent new ones from being made.
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1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:
For those of you still waiting to hear what we'll be doing with your creations, Steve mentioned plans on last night's Prime Time (URL will take you to the time stamp where he talks about the future of Kuvats):
Do we have an ETA on how much longer we have? I still need to make Kuvats!!!
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18 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:
I really think there are only a few in here that could be accused of overreacting, I'll be proud to be on that list, but generally there are plenty of rational people giving constructive feed back to real issues that do not need to be ignored. Once volt gets labeled as fine by De, it could be momths before anything gets looked at on him again. So it absolutely has to be assessed right now.
Fine as is can not be allowed here right now. This is not the time.
We wan't volt to be awesome, anything reallly would do but this, for the most part we (aside a few others) weve all been working towards a common goal. Making volt amazing with all of our ideas and our feedback because this "rework" is lacking...Maybe I'm just waiting for someone to say we messed up and our feedback willl be overviewd but were not even getting a hint of that...Also, the word "High damage" is sooo overemphasised. Wether you think volt is meant to be a power hungry damaging machine or a supportive team player, he still lacks all of that...
I'm with you, Overexageting and proud!
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11 hours ago, Cytobel said:
I really wish the Volt rework hadn't been in the middle of this hailstorm of Snickers bars and tiny d1cks. So many good things, and soooo many d1cks... This can't be intentional.
It was first unvealed to us on april 1st...We got an april fools joke...HAHAHA!!! very funny! alright! now were the real volt rework! anyone know? uh, anyone? ...
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So I don't need dragon keys but for those who do, I think needing 10 void traces would require more work as opposed to maybe, using a relic instead? I say this because relics were void keys which was required to make a dragon key, how about makeing it the same except with a relic? I don't think 10 void traces for 1 dragon key is worth it, seemingly how they don't drop in an abundent supply. Aside that, I find it odd that the amount of VT that you can have are capped
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1 hour ago, EnderDDT said:
So I decided to take a step back for a while to see if DE would actually listen and respond, or if they would simply treat their players as though they weren't worth their time. Rebecca's posts were a pleasant surprise and the revision of the speed pick-up was solid proof that DE is willing to hear what is said and revise things as needed. This is how you build brand loyalty, a lot of other companies could learn something from this. I then decided to sit back again and wait till things had seemed to settle down a bit and see where things are.
I decided to look over the accumulation of all the changes Volt has gotten since the beginning to see how he is doing now, mainly to keep things in perspective. Interim changes can throw your perspective off so it is good to remember where things have been. And, in true narrative form, I'll focus on "The Good" (buffs, improvements), "The Bad" (nerfs, broken areas, ignored problems), and "The Ugly" (those ugly little truths which need to be addressed to get the results we want), and what might be done about it.
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The Good: Volt is actually in a better place than he was before. His passive may only be worthwhile in the extreme early game (lv15 or so), but it doesn't have to be a game changer and is interesting as it is. The recastability is a definite improvement to his speed. The opt-out and lack of a PoV change basically fixes the problems with allies disliking it. Despite the loss of the instant application and the loss of speed on rocket jumps and such, overall that is a plus. The reload speed is nice too, but generally too small to notice due to wow reload speed's math works and how most people wisely reload outside of battle. His Energy Shield now blocks explosions, meaning that the defense is actually meaningful at higher levels where explosions tend to one-shot and especially since explosions are becoming more common. That alone is significant. Furthermore his #4 is better than his old ability in that it deals more damage and has higher theoretical cc (though only sometimes does this translate to reality), but now it makes you more vulnerable to use and has less effective range and is less dependable. The vulnerability and lack of dependability probably makes the new ability come out far more even with his old ulti than actually making it a straight improvement (sorry DE, it is the truth as I see it). The Riot Shield is unusable, but it is there, so technically it also counts as an increase in power.
Furthermore some of the problematic areas of his new abilities have been and continue to be addressed. The spread on his Discharge, while not yet perfect, is much less likely to jump over enemies and gets stuck on terrain far less than it did before. The ability also hits flying enemies more often and will knock out turrets like it should as well. His Riot Shield is much less likely to be picked up accidentally when it shouldn't, though the problem still persists. This shows that work is still being done.
Lets also not forget that DE was also willing to admit that they went too far in the case of the drop activation for Volt's speed. A lot of companies would have tried to pretend that there was no problem and in so doing would have treated the player base as ignorant nobodies who's opinions meant nothing. Generally speaking, the players do know when a mistake is made and are willing to forgive. Afterall, the developers (as much as they are masters of the wizardry of programing) are still human. I'm not sure I can speak enough of how positively this speaks of DE as a whole.
So overall, he is slightly better. Not better enough to really be in a good place, but most of his stuff didn't loose a lot in the rework. Not all reworked Warframes are so lucky.
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The Bad: Specifically the ignored: His passive is lackluster past early game to the point where it basically doesn't do anything, though expecting a game-changer from a passive would be a bit unrealistic (it is mostly just "fine"). His first ability is still pretty weak and somewhat unreliable, though it is borderline acceptable. His speed still has the minuscule 10s base time, which has been needed to be increased for a while, though this isn't going to break him as it is. He still doesn't have the base move speed increase everyone has been asking for forever. His defensive capabilities are still brokenly low, especially considering how much he needs to be in the middle of the fight (Riot Shield costs too much to be a factor). The defensive problem is the biggest one, since three of his abilities work best either at or in front of the front line in a group (Speed helps mele, Energy Shield needs to be in front of the warframes to protect them, and Discharge requires being next to or amidst enemies to hit them).
The bad that's new: The Riot Shield still forces use of the secondary without auto-switching back to the primary when it is dropped. Hopefully the secondary restriction will be completely removed. Riot Shield is still picked up randomly when you are trying to do other things, though this has gotten a LOT better and only rarely happens rather than always happens. Shocking Speed, because of its longer range, completely prevents the Riot Shield bash from happening while both abilities are in use. The shield bash only works while running, so sword users won't get any benefit while spinning into targets (enemies take the stagger from the sword hit, but that is all). On a somewhat related note, the game now undoes your characters running randomly when they preform an action (such as firing) and forces you to retoggle running again. That is very annoying and I still have not figured out what is doing it. Also the interaction of his Shock with Energy Shield still gives only damage and not a proc, essentially making the interaction worthless past early level and generally a waste of energy even there.
The Bad: Specifically the nerfed or just bugged (no way to tell the intentionality of the changes): His speed no longer affects bullet-jumps and such. Considering how much this type of movement is a part of the game, that is a pretty significant loss. Furthermore certain projectiles can now penetrate his shield when they could not before, such as Vey-Hek's magnetic beam (and yes, I tested it before. That was how I got Hydroid). This is also likely a bug but I haven't finished testing to see all of what can now penetrate that could not before. The new limit on shield number is workable, though just barely, but it is still a limit placed for no good balance reason that anyone can find. The shield limit is intentional, but the others may or may not be.
The Bad: The Broken: Riot Shield costs too stupidly much, and has way too many negatives on top of it. If a new player, let alone a mid level player or anyone not building specifically for Riot shield, cannot afford to use the ability than that is broken. The other negatives added to it are just insults to the energy cost injury. This means that his defensive problems, which the Riot Shield was meant to mitigate, have been untouched. He is still a frame that requires getting up to the front line of battle without the defensiveness to do so safely.
His ultimate as a CC move is unreliable, costs too much in terms of vulnerability, and is therefore unusable in most circumstances when it would be most useful. The spread mechanic, though it has been improved, is somewhat to blame. Furthermore the fact that Volt must be on the ground and in the middle of his group of targets is another major flaw for someone so squishy. The damage cap is a major part of this problem, especially since it ends the ability early. This means that duration can only affect the ability negatively due to the damage cap always ending it early before increased duration can be used. The effects of range are much worse, however. Maxing range can result in the enemy breaking the stun before the casting animation is finished. Test it in the symlcrum if you don't believe me. Range at 250%, as many of a room full of high level chargers following you as you like, and then hit your Discharge; it is easily repeatable and waiting on a large group before hitting your high range aoe move is exactly the type of thing that might happen in a real game.
His ultimate as a source of damage, as it is designed, can most likely never be a viable source of end game damage and not be broken. Removing the damage cap would make it very good damage and end-game level CC, but it would not make the damage end-game level (with the possible exception of large crowds of infested, because they clump so closely together in such large groups which allows the AoE damage to do more). Adding in percentage based damage might make it good end-game damage without killing things too easily in early game, but that brings in balance issues. All that really needs to be said here, is that the damage it provides just isn't going to cut it in the extreme late game scenarios.
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The Ugly: First lets say something that the Stormriders will be very pleased with: DE seems to have made it clear that they want volt to be a true damage frame as per the "alternative to gunplay" description rather than only a "compliment to gunplay". I'm more of the "compliment" crowd myself, but I will be happy as long as his current tools (#2, #3) aren't ruined and I'm very happy to know the direction that DE wants to take. That said, this brings us back to a problem I mentioned before: How do you keep that balanced? In most cases a non-exaulted ability simply cannot compete with a 5 forma weapon in terms of damage and not be broken. Realistically speaking the only warframe to have end-game non-exalted-weapon damage is Trinity (EV, in combo with WoL, single target, takes several seconds at minimum, usually multiple casts to kill); though some would put Saryn in that group, there is enough disagreement on that point to mark her as at least undecided. And yet, a good five forma weapon is realistically the standard of end-game damage. Percentage based damage would have fixed the damage issue but not the balance one. Some of us here have come up with ways around this problem, but that belongs in the next section.
Let me say this to anyone and everyone at DE who will listen (I don't know their tags or how to tag, or I would tag them): One of those two is almost certainly correct: Either the restrictions on Riot Shield were thought acceptable because end game players could deal with it, or else the restrictions were not tested period. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt in saying that it may be simply balanced for the wrong people. Considering how many and across the board the restrictions are, I'm thinking that a lack of realistic testing is more likely.
You cannot balance around extreme end game players and have anything balanced for everyone else. The extreme ways that end game players have made the Riot Shield work PROVE that the ability is broken to begin with. Especially true is the fact that balancing for end-game players through energy costs is especially doomed to fail. They have unlimited energy restores, syndicate procs, pocket EV Trin, and absurd amounts of mods/arcane helmets to combine as they please. Anything limiting for them makes the aspect completely unusable for everyone else. This is ESPECIALLY true when the item in question is on a starter frame that new players should be expected to be able to use.
Even if Riot Shield wasn't balanced around the wrong people than, as a matter of tough love, one more thing needs to be said: You cannot test your products in unrealistic conditions (infinite energy, access to all mods, no HP loss) and expect to get relevant results. That is, at best, proof of concept, but fails to pass the bar of even Alpha Testing before Beta Testing even should become a concern. To give an example, think about what would happen if a rank0 player with a level5 volt uses his Energy Shield for the first time and sees the "press X to pick up" sign (without being warned about that trap)... Not a good result. The same result happens with a rank3 or rank5 player using all the mods they can be expected to have by that point in the game. If you want to deal with the problem of new players having a hard time, here is one place where you should start. When even mid-level and especially high-level players also say that they never use something because of how it is balanced (like many here, myself included, say about the Riot Shield because of the cost), than that shows that the alpha stage of balance and testing was not sufficiently done.
Finally, I think it needs to be said that use percentage is not a good measure of relative power. Some people seem to be implying that it is and at least one has pointed out statistics from DE that makes me think the devs might be implying the same thing. If so, let me set the record straight. Some people like things because the options are strong but other people simply like what they like. Making the thing weak will encourage those who simply gravitate to the most powerful option to find another powerful option, but for those others who simply like the thing it will encourage them to like nothing. Considering the words of the people who are on and continually return to this thread, I think it is safe to say that we are here because we like the thing and not because we think it is super powerful. Many of us have already pointed out that, while Volt has diverse talents, other frames do everything he does so much better. We aren't here for the power, so judging the power by our presence won't give good data and reducing the power won't encourage diversity of our use. If you want diversity, give other options that appeal to the same things that draws us to what we like.
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What to do about things? For starters the costs and downsides for the Riot Shield need to be rebalanced. While the shield bash is a nice gimic, it essentially adds no power in the vast majority of circumstances. If enemies are advancing on you, than you aren't running, so it doesn't block melee enemies. If you are moving forward toward enemies to attack than you generally are already sword spinning, which prevents the knockdown from running. If you are trying to rush forward than you would use shocking speed to cc far more enemies at far less cost, and again the shield bash does nothing. As for the cost of the rest, balanced would be a cost per second of 2-3 with the duration timer but without any of the other downsides (cost per movement, weapon restriction, speed restriction). While that may seem low (probably because people have gotten into the habit of thinking that there must be SOME reason why the current numbers are reasonable) I have already explained why this is actually fitting with what is already in the game. Here is a link back to it: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/652763-volt-rework-feedback-post-update-1813/?do=findComment&comment=7406665
The unreliability of his ultimate comes down to two things: the spread mechanic and enemies popping out due to the damage cap. The spread mechanic seems already to be being worked on and the reliability of it must be dealt with before the question of range can be properly addressed. The best thing to do about that is to keep working on it and wait. The damage cap just really needs removed, even if this means rebalancing in some other way. It makes 2 out of the four main power modifiers (duration and range) either useless or actively detrimental to use. It punishes the player for using the ability on large or clumped groups, which is good strategy in all other cases. Even so, if the damage cap of 4000 can be reached in less than a second with a full 12 seconds on the duration, some rebalancing will need to be done. The obvious easy rebalance is to reduce the base damage and just let people be rewarded for gathering a large group of enemies before setting the ability off, though not quite as quickly. Another simpler rebalance might be to have the affected targets only zap one target at a time rather than all enemies in range (prioritizing those not already under the effects, because lightning seeks to be grounded). Someone mentioned keeping the cap but letting the stun outlast it, though it would leave the enemy just standing there dumb and would sacrifice the ability's damage aspects, but it is an option. If this is chosen than his shock might recharge the damage batteries of all affected targets. The duration might also be reduced as part of the rebalancing, though too much of a reduction will just highlight the long casting time even more. There are lots of options so hopefully something can be chosen.
As for the damage aspect, especially as it relates to balancing with the time and effort that is put into getting high end weapons, that is more complicated. Someone mentioned turning his ultimate into a railgun exalted-weapon as one option, perhaps it could use the current spread mechanic when it hit? Or reduce the damage on his ultimate and turn his current shock into the railgun exalted weapon. If it was based on primary weapon mods than it might even give a reason for his shield to be limited to secondary weapons. Multiple combining synergys might be a way to give end-game damage through abilities without using the exalted-weapon method, though those who are unhappy about the Saryn rework would strongly disagree and even mag requires good weapon use to hit her end-game damage dream. It is an option that would anger many if not done right, but is still an option and there might be a way to make it work. Perhaps including a mechanic that allows the damage to ramp up over time might work, though that would be hard to find a way to put into volt's toolset. Perhaps some sort of a link where, if you stay close to an enemy, it drains a flat amount of energy but increases the damage per second higher and higher till the enemy dies? It would need to be on a frame that was more of a tank, though. An ability that could be charged to deal ramping damage, at the cost of not being able to attack with other weapons during the charge time, might be another method. Any damage number might be possible, it would just take longer to get the numbers and meanwhile other weapons might be better for quick damage. These ideas may or may not help, but at least putting the ideas out there has the potential to do some good.
Finally, there are still quite a few bugs that still need to be worked out and other reductions in power that may well have been unintentional (such as the loss of speed's benefits on rocket-jumps and such). What to do about those seems obvious (fix them), so I won't go too much into detail on it.
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TL/DR: Volt is demonstrably in a slightly better place than he was before the rework, mainly because of his shield blocking explosions, but there are still a few things that desperately need to be addressed and some new bugs. The biggest current problems are the massive restrictions/costs on his Riot Shield and the undependability of his Discharge.
@[DE]Steve @[DE]Rebecca Please read everything EnderDDT says about volt, master of enormous posts!!!
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1 minute ago, AM-Bunny said:
Don't worry, he found his head again after re-logging. Man these things are tempermental.
What is wrong with us?!?
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5 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:
Well, trying to do this decapitated mine T^T
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This is beautiful...is something wrong with me??? I LOVE THIS ( I am laughing way to hard this is AMEEEZING!!!)
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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:
But seriously, we're aware of the... uh... (nightmare fuel) cr...creations? and are investigating.
These cruel and unnatural experiments will come to and end.
Let it be...this is...just...I love this!!!
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45 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:
No problem fellow Tenno. This is what the forum is for. Sharing knowledge. I've had members sprinkle knowledge bombs on me too. :D
That makes 2 of us
I like the community here... Thanks all for the feedback and sharing of ideas! It was well appreciated!
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4 hours ago, Thaylien said:
Hmm... odd, neither the arsenal nor the Wiki say it is... guess I'll just trust you. Okay then, my only objection is it could be a confusing addition to put in a timer on Radial Disarm, leading people think that with Irradiating Disarm the ability has a duration cap. Besides, you've got multiple enemies, multiple casts of Disarm, and only one counter, how does that work? Much like Snowglobe, the counter would only time the most recently irradiated group, not the earlier ones, which are probably the enemies you most want to keep track of.
You make a fair point... though I wouldn't want it being like snowglobe, so it caps around, I wanna say 30 seconds of radiation??? So on RD there would be a timer just like invisibility that shows how long the ability lasts, maybe it should state the duration of it somewere else instead of a timer if others see that as confusing?
4 hours ago, Thaylien said:That's the way I had it explained to me. Besides there are actually lots of abilities that break the theme; Zephyr's 1 and 2 both cost 25, So do Ivara's 1 and 2, quite a lot of other abilites are channel instead of direct cost, like World on Fire and the Exalted abilities, Limbo's Rift Walk ability on 2 only costs 15, Frosts Ice Wave and Snow Globe both cost 50...
There's a pattern to most frames, but DE have been slowly making it more about how the abilities work dictating the order they appear rather than their cost.
Well, I guess it's just a bunch of jumbled up numbers
also thanks for the added input and being kind to me
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3 hours ago, Thaylien said:
The duration of Irradiating Disarm's confusion effect is 9 seconds at max. A regular proc lasts 12 seconds. Duration mods do not effect how long the effect lasts and only re-casting extends the effect. The disarm part is permanent though. If you think 9 seconds needs a timer, then fine that's entirely a valid opinion, I just think it doesn't when it has a visual indicator on top of the short duration.
It is affected by power duration which can extend it to much higher numbers instead of the amount that it indicates
3 hours ago, Thaylien said:The order of Desecrate and Terrify is so that you unlock and max out the abilities at different times, it's not based on the cost of the ability at all, so I don't think this will change
Really? wow, I wasn't thinking about it like that, only because it breaks the +25 energy per ability patteren. Must be a thing I have for numbers then
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I cannot see my sigil in the starchart, there is not a thing there
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I'm psyced for nekros prime, so I would hate to for a nullifier to rid of my minions
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32 minutes ago, Ciaus said:
apart from the Nekros one which is not just QoL.
Hahaha! That's me getting excited for nekros prime!
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Just now, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:
Iron Shrapnel?
Yes, though it's only recastible with Iron shrapnel on
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Just a small short list of things that I think would be neat to have
Loki : Recastiable invisibility , duration timer for those who use irraditing disarm, it lasts about 25-30 seconds and I think it should indicate that
Rhino : Recastible Iron skin
Nekros : Swap desecrate and terrify as terrify costs more energy but comes before desecrate, add a counter to indicate amount of stored souls
Volt : Hitting containers does not use the passive so you can hit containers without losing you'r stored amount damage
A bit off topic but I think our slots should be numbered as I have more weapon slots than I can count
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We need degu,chinchilla or mice...something of that nature
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5 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:
I wonder if people are saying they lost relics just to get more relics for free...
Or a misinterpretation...
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25 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:
Give us 100 relics of each of the neglected eras and we'll call it even steven seagal :)
Haha appreciate the insight, and the update. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Sounds fair to me
SpoilerPlease? We would all be satisfied! We just want this to get solved really is what we want
I like the community here... Thanks all for the feedback and sharing of ideas! It was well appreciated!
also thanks for the added input and being kind to me 
CatDog exists.
in Fan Zone
Posted
If only it came a few hours later... darn...