YagoXiten
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Posts posted by YagoXiten
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14 hours ago, AdvisorZ said:
So, what I have just read:
"Mag does not bring damage" - Of course. I destroy with her help 150 (+/-) levels of any faction. Yes. No damage.
"Mag does not survive" - Sure. She was upgraded, added shields from the Ultimate (including for teammates), and slightly reduced cast time. Augmented "Disarmament" with manual disconnection of the dome. Yes. All what not stand still and does not receive damage - Rino Trinity Chroma Nidus - , while drinking tea, all badly survives. To spit on "to move in battle," "modes of vitality," "mechanics of abilities and their adaptation." Yes." Mag badly controls opponents ". Of course. Can hurl opponents with the first ability as much as she wants (not to mention the fact that this ability was exposed to nerf). She can keep the opponent with her fourth ability as much as she wants, plus, with the augment - control gets even better. Yes. She is a "very bad" crowd controller.
So, what did I see? Nothing new. Again, whining, which has already hurt many frames (and will still harm, more than once, in future updates).
"I cant deal damage by playing for Mag, I cant survive by playing for Mag, I cant do anything, by playing for Mag. So - I order you to spit on the players and do as I said !! Change Mag, because I do not know how to play for Mag!".
Dude, if you do not know how, that's your personal problem. But whining and complaining that: "Ah, a bad frame., Change!" - no one needs. You will only spoil everything. Or learn, or leave the frame alone, and do not spoil the pleasure of other players.
The only thing useful in the entire monologue is: Words about 100% status, for the 1st and 4th abilities. 25% chance to pull the sphere of energy out of the opponent. Replacement of passive ability (or increase the radius of attraction). That's all.
Everything other in this monologue - personal fantasies about "unicorns, rainbow, invulnerability and mass destruction with one click" (you need to another universe, sir) who have already done enough bad things.
Mag like everything is not perfect. But she is excellent, as she is. And she does not need any changes and "vanilla" ideas. (Only those little ones that I mentioned).
P.S I have one personal request, DE. If you read this. Please, never, do not change Mag, she's good! Never.
The only things suggested here that are anywhere near controversial are changes to Pull's cast paradigm and making Crush detonate Magnetize. The former is almost strictly an improvement. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to actually control where Pull pulls things. The latter, well, Crush sans Fracturing Crush is objectively one of the least effective powers in the game. I made it do potentially massive damage if you take the time to set it up. The rest is just quality of life changes or slight numerical tweaks to offset the significant buffs. No one proposed dramatic and radical changes to her identity. She loses absolutely nothing.
It isn't hard to tackle level 150 enemies. It isn't hard to parkour, and no matter how good you are at it you will eventually eat a Bombard rocket or have a Nullifier snipe you out of Bullet Jump. It isn't hard to mod Corrosive Projection, use status weapons with Corrosive damage or use Radiation/Hunter's Munitions on a crit weapon. You aren't better than me or anyone else for doing those things. But we can do better than expect every almost every single Warframe to run those things in every single mission to make up for their frame's innate lack of scaling, and we certainly shouldn't be doing that whilst spamming CC abilities like Counter Pulse whilst crouched behind a chest high wall because losing track of a single enemy for a quarter of a second means instant death. Warframe is a fast paced horde shooter. You aren't special because you manage to play Mag in high level missions like you're Nathan Drake.
Threads like these exist because a lot of us would rather play a better game than meet someone's narrow preconceptions of 'playing better'.
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41 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:
pretty much. the only thing mag needs really is a better passive.
The new kit is infinitely better than the old kit, sure. But Saryn 2.0 was better than Saryn 1.0 and better than Mag currently is and they still went through the effort to release Saryn 3.0. There is almost always going to room for improvement.
Why should we settle for Magnetize bubbles we can't control without an Augment? Why should we settle for Fracturing Crush / Polarize being unable to strip armor when Ash, Oberon, Saryn, Banshee, and Hydroid can easily do that and more than the rest of Mag's kit with less effort? Why should we have to use a Lanka or other projectile weapon for Magnetize to even properly absorb damage? Why should Polarize have a faction it does absolutely nothing against? Why should Crush cost more energy, deal less damage and have less range and less CC than Polarize when the only thing it does slightly better is generate overshields if you have a dozen enemies nearby and are already maxed or near maxed out on shields?
Mag might not need work as much as some other frames like Ember or Vauban, but she's nowhere near as effective or as well designed as Atlas, Banshee, Equinox, Harrow, Hydroid, Inaros, Khora, Limbo, Loki, Nekros, Nezha, Nidus, Nova, Oberon, Octavia, Rhino, Saryn, Valkyr, or Volt. -
Her survivability is laughable. Her synergy is forced and ineffective. Her energy costs are astronomical. Her damage is irrelevant without abusing specific weapon loadouts or massive investments in Ability Strength. Her crowd control is lackluster without her Augments--Counter Pulse almost strictly outclasses Fracturing Crush and Magnetized Discharge in that regard, but at least one of those still ends up being mandatory depending upon what mission you're in. She requires Ability Duration for Polarize's range and to use two of those Augments but doing so makes Magnetize unwieldy. You're also almost always forced to run Fleeting Expertise unless you somehow manage to make do with Zenurik and Streamline.
Detailed Explanation:SpoilerLet's go through a usual bout of modding Mag.
We put on Vitality so that we don't bleed out all over that pretty tile after taking a few Slash procs or fighting Venomous Eximi. Next we throw on Counter Pulse so that we don't die to stray Bombard rockets or get ambushed by a Detron Crewman. We'll throw on Fleeting Expertise so we can actually use our powers and Primed Continuity so we can actually use Polarize. So far, so good, right?
Well, that's where things get frustrating. Overextended seems like a nice fit for Pull, Magnetize, and Crush--but if we do that our Magnetize bubbles are more of a hinderance than anything on small tilesets, and since Blind Rage is out of the question with these energy costs we end up having to run Intensify AND Transient Fortitude if we want to use Magnetize with a weapon other than the Lanka. And this is before we've even talked about armor.
Maybe just Stretch, then? Sadly, the base explosion range on Magnetize is 15m and Crush is 18m, so that isn't enough most of the time. We can add Augur Reach, but now we're down to 2 mod slots. If the mission is against Grineer or Corrupted, we need to run Fracturing Crush to deal with their armor. Crush's cast time is abhorrent, so we run Natural Talent...And then we still don't have any Strength to actually deal with their armor.
Maybe we take out Augur Reach and slot in Transient Fortitude? Now our Duration on Counter Pulse is barely longer than our reload speed with half of the weapons in the game. Maybe just Intensify? Sure, that seems ok.And then we go into a Sortie and our powers do no damage because Polarize affects total armor. We can cast Polarize and then Crush two or three times in a row and finish with another Polarize...But now we've spent all of our energy and six seconds doing nothing more than stripping them of their armor.
And then we die, because some Bombard behind us and just outside of Crush's range got out of Counter Pulse. Back to the drawing board.
And all I can think is: Why? Mag has a combo!
In theory, at least. You use Crush to lock them down, Polarize to weaken their defenses, Pull to round them up, and Magnetize to blow them away.
Except that isn't what happens. You have to cast Polarize first so you don't die in Crush's animation. Then you cast Pull to group them up and...they all go flying randomly behind you across the room. (That, or you only hit the Corrupted/Ancient Healer because its aura protects everything around it from Pull's CC.) Then you cast Magnetize and start filling that poor guy full of holes, waiting for the big bang. And then it never comes because you kill everything in the room and then Magnetize dies off with a whimper. You can fix some of these issues with modding, but it's ultimately like trying to patch a major hull breach when you're already on a sinking ship. You constantly find at least one or two major issues that you cannot seem to get rid of.
If not exactly the changes below, I think we can all agree on this much:
- Mag's Energy usage needs toned down. [Remember that this is caused, primarily, by her dependence upon Polarize and Fracturing Crush to deal with enemy scaling. And to a lesser extent by her dependence upon spamming her two most expensive abilities for the shields they generate.]
- Pull should allow us greater precision in corralling enemies.
- Pull's Energy Orb generation mechanic shouldn't require her to kill the target.
- Magnetize's damage should scale better with the damage dealt by Pull/Polarize/Crush and the damage dealt by weapons that lack obvious synergy with the ability.
- Magnetize needs some sort of QoL changes to make it less difficult to use with projectile weapons.
- Magnetize should, in some way, have manual detonation.
- Polarize's armor reduction needs to scale far better than it does.
- Crush and Fracturing Crush need to be less redundant with Polarize and Counter Pulse since both abilities deal damage, remove armor, restore shields, and CC enemies.
My Suggestions:
Pull: No longer pulls enemies wildly towards Mag. Instead, Mag pulls all enemies within 15/20m (affected by Ability Range) of the point her reticle is aiming at a distance of 15m (affected by Ability Range) towards said point. This works like Hydroid's Tempest Barrage and has infinite cast range. Furthermore, keep in mind that Pull is currently either a hemisphere or a cone, though it is extremely difficult to prove for certain it is one or the other. If it is a cone, then a 15m radius sphere is very similar in volume. If it is a hemisphere, as seems more likely, then a 20m radius sphere is similar in volume. In other words, please ignore that the range has 'gone down'. It has not--it has merely been redistributed. Damage reduced to 100 (affected by Ability Strength). Damage multiplier on Magnetized targets changed to 4x (affected by Ability Strength) and this damage is now absorbed by Magnetize. The first time Pull is used on an enemy directly targeted by Magnetize there is a 25% chance (affected by Ability Strength) to spawn an Energy Orb. Pull now has a 100% chance to apply the Magnetic Status.- Augment - Greedy Pull: Unchanged
Magnetize: The damage dealt by Magnetize's damage over time effect is now based upon the greatest absorbed damage type. Magnetize's damage over time now has a 20% Status Chance (affected by Ability Strength). Magnetize now properly absorbs the damage dealt from all weapons. Magnetize no longer has bizarre targeting interactions with hitscan weapons.
- Augment - Magnetized Discharge: No longer has a chance to disarm enemies. Instead, enemies are slowed by 60% (affected by Ability Strength, cannot exceed 80%) for 6 seconds (affected by Ability Duration). Magnetize can still be manually detonated with this augment.
SpoilerFrom what I can tell Magnetize currently only tracks damage instances that actually hit an enemy within it. Shooting the sphere with no enemies inside does not add damage. Shooting at the sphere whilst enemies are inside it, but not in the center, will not add damage unless they collide with a shot left trapped in the field. If a single shot manages to strike enemies multiple times it will add damage to Magnetize multiple times. If an enemy is attacked with a weapon which has multishot and the target dies to the first pellet, then subsequent pellets will not add damage as the target died before they hit.
All of this together means that the properties of Mag's weapons and the health of Mag's target affect the damage dealt by Magnetize in an absurd manner.Two weapons which have the same DPS and time to kill can add dramatically different values to Magnetize. This is particularly significant when you compare high rate of fire but low damage weaponry, such assault rifles, and high damage but low rate of fire weapons such as snipers. They may both kill a target in a single shot, but only the sniper will contribute significantly to the damage absorbed by Magnetize. Status weapons are affected by this even more, as not only are they typically high rate of fire but low damage weapons, they also tend to rely upon the Corrosive status which does not actually deal damage.
I want to fix this.
Ideally by making it so that Magnetize tracks the damage type and damage dealt to the sphere itself, rather than the raw damage dealt to enemies inside of the sphere. This would still allow projectile weapons to damage enemies multiple times. It would not, however, allow a single Lanka shot to increase Magnetize's damage for every time it hits an enemy. This is not a nerf, though it may seem like it at first glance, because the damage type dealt by Magnetize's damage over time will be able to ignore 75% of a target's alloy armor with Radiation damage or 75% of a target's ferrite armor with Corrosive damage, on top of the expected 1.75x damage increase in both cases.
Polarize: Polarize now briefly staggers enemies that have neither armor nor shields. Polarize's damage changed to 250 (affected by Ability Strength) and Polarize's shield restoration is changed to 500 (affected by Ability Strength). Polarize's armor reduction now applies to base armor as opposed to total armor. The shards created by Polarize now add 100 (affected by Ability Strength) damage to Magnetize.
- Augment - Counter Pulse: Unchanged
Crush: Crush now causes all instances of Magnetize within range to detonate, and its damage is absorbed by Magnetize.
- Augment - Fracturing Crush: No longer reduces enemy armor. Instead, all enemies are affected by the Puncture Status and cannot move for 8 seconds (affected by Ability Duration).
Why?
This satisfies every bullet point listed above. In addition: Mag has substantially greater flexibility in her modding as her base abilities are improved and her Augments diversified, her survivability has improved, and her crowd control options are more differentiated. A large amount of Ability Duration no longer hinders your ability to detonate Magnetize and/or no longer mandates an Augment. Ability Strength is now more beneficial to Mag, but is still not required. Ability Efficiency is improved as a Mag no longer has to cast Crush and Polarize multiple times in a row for Magnetize to scale against armored enemies. Ability Range is just as powerful as it is now, but Mag players running low Range should enjoy still being able to use Pull to round up far away foes. Melee Mag players should enjoy using Condition Overload with the Puncture procs from Fracturing Crush and the Magnetic proc from Pull. -
On 2018-06-03 at 12:41 PM, Torrempesta said:
What part of "Maybe it wasn't clear to me" you don't get?
Motorfirebox just answered my question. You posted a link that maybe (you don't know it) I already consulted.
And now you are making this whole thread toxic for the sake of it.
I'll agree they were condescending and should not have been. I'll apologize on their behalf. That said, whilst it does not justify their behavior, there is an explanation for it: Threads like these are spam. They do not provide feedback. They are easily answered via the Wiki or resources available in game such as the Simulacrum. In Players Helping Players, this is fine. Learning is a good thing! But this is not the correct forum for that. And even if it were, I'm fairly certain this has probably been answered elsewhere. The forum does have a search feature.
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Its base damage per second is slightly lower with the listed changes, but its supplemental stats have been significantly buffed. Its increased fire rate will likely be a slight nerf to its presently amazing ammo economy, but that's minor and actually kind of hard to gauge. The descriptions for the new ramping effect and the .5 ammo per trace mechanic seems, to me at least, to suggest that continuous fire weapons will only consume ammo when you actually hit a target, similar to the way the Panthera's alt-fire functions now. At any rate, all you've done here, OP, is make a knee-jerk dramatization of the changes without proper context or even waiting to test them out. Which seems silly, since they explicitly said in the Dev Workshop thread that the changes are difficult to articulate or gauge on paper.
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1 hour ago, Devin90 said:
Undertow is just a bad concept for an ability.
You sit there.
As a puddle.
I don't care if it's effective or not, this is not engaging gameplay.
Previously, yes. That was all it did.
Now, however, it does so much more. And it is, believe it or not, engaging gameplay. In all honesty, it is probably one of the BEST designed abilities in the entire game.
5 hours ago, EpicBred said:No. There is a big difference between those two abilities. You cant stay in nyxs 4 as long as you want. Enemies drain your energy so fast you just cant keep it up, its a panic ability. You get punished for staying in it for too long (no energy). But hydroid players get rewarded for staying in puddle. Youre invincible and can instakill with easily managable energy drain. See, I can just not use puddle and jump around to not get hit, but why would I do that? I have better results if I just use puddle, im encouraged to press 3 and stay in there. Am I encouraged for staying in nyxs 4? No, I get punished.
This is so blatantly hyperbolic it is disgusting.
Do you know why the cost of Nyx's Absorb increases based upon the amount of damage Nyx takes? Because once upon a time you could sit on top of a Defense objective in Absorb and render the target invulnerable, as well as store up a nuke large enough to destroy a large area of enemies of almost any level instantly.
Undertow is nowhere near that degree of abusive. Yes, you can typically sustain it indefinitely and potentially kill enemies of almost any level with it, but this is not advantageous in the vast majority of cases. Why? Let me count the reasons.- Most enemies can be killed far more easily by simply shooting them. This is generally only false in the case of enemies with an extremely high level. And, for the record, DE has stated explicitly on numerous occasions that the game is not balanced around such enemies.
- Most mission objectives force you to move far more than you are capable of in Undertow.
- Undertow cannot effectively deal with Nullifiers, Ancient Healers/Ancient Disruptors, heavily armored Grineeer, or the adaptive defenses of the Sentient.
- Hydroid cannot provide invulnerability for his team or his mission objectives.
- Hydroid cannot interact with consoles, mission objectives, or collect loot or restore Energy.
And even if Hydroid IS rewarded for sitting in Undertow, so what?
The person playing Hydroid is still going to have to actively be pressing buttons to use it. After all, I promise you, enemies aren't just going to run into it at every opportunity, and you cannot always pull an enemy to their watery grave. For example, sometimes they are behind cover, or sometimes they are a Nullifier, or are protected by a Nullifier. Seeing as how Hydroid has to leave Undertow to move or collect loot, at some point he is going to be vulnerable. And this is going to happen far more frequently than it does for Wukong. In all honesty, i's going to happen exactly the same way that it happens for Rhino's Iron Skin and Nezha's Warding Halo. More frequently, in fact, because most people are going to be incentivized to move, even if they do not have to. And we're not out here with our pitchforks screaming about how broken they are. And I guarantee you they can kill enemies as fast as or even faster than Hydroid can with Undertow. All they would have to do is take any Slash melee weapon and equip Enduring Affliction, Maiming Strike, Blood Rush, and Drifting Contact, since that particular combo allows infinitely scaling Finisher damage with an infinite duration. And UNLIKE Undertow, that particular cheese combo can be done with a MACRO.
In all honesty, Undertow is probably less abusive than a Frost sitting on top of the Defense objective and spamming his Snow Globe, which CAN be maintained 100% indefinitely and DOES provide his team and his objective with nigh invulnerability. It might not deal damage on its own, but it's not as though there aren't plenty of ways in this game to deal a disgusting amount of damage without any sort of thought. You know. Like melee Slide spam, or the Staticor, or the Ignis, or World on Fire, or Resonating Quake...
And what about the GOOD gameplay that Hydroid has as a result of Undertow? You can effectively take cover in plain sight to reload or heal or regain your shields. You can narrowly avoid the shots that you otherwise would have failed to dodge. You can gather your enemies into a cluster for you to mow down. You can isolate and control specific targets. You can toggle it briefly to knock down enemies and open them up to Finishers. You can use it to assess your surroundings before you proceed. You can use it to avoid detection in Spy missions. You can use it to prevent Tidal Surge from splattering you into a wall.
There are far more things that you can do, and that you can do better, if you only use Undertow to augment what you are doing, rather than attempting to replace what you are doing with it.
If you don't want to sit and kill everything whilst being invulnerable, I suggest you start playing Hydroid and stop playing Ember, and go to somewhere other than Mercury. -
2 hours ago, Buddhakingpen said:
Not sure of what the point of like everything except the last two paragraphs was, as i already established that tempest barrage is a superior move. I said they could be used for different functions. Not that i find tentacle swarm better, or that i had no idea what the word "radius" meant.
I also never said that they were the same as bastille and vortex. I said to think of it "like" those moves. As in, area denial duration based cc, with the other still serving a functional purpose. Its also strange how you said that bastille has a way larger range than tempest barrage... Its 10 meters at base... which means it hits 25 meters with max range. Which is the exact range a max range tempest barrage can hit as you yourself established in the same post.
As far as tentacle swarm. I've already stated the ways i use it that i dont use tempest barrage. It works for me. True, i dont HAVE to use it, but it makes my games easier when i do.
I look at them as two sides of the same coin. vauban enables great gunplay and "ok" melee play for your team through cc. Hydroid enables great melee and "ok" gunplay through cc.
You are not using them for different functions. You are using them for different but arbitrary reasons. That is to say Tempest Barrage is so much better that the only reason you are not casting it instead is because you do not want to. And there is a huge difference.
Bastille is considerably larger than Vortex. I was not talking about it being larger than Tempest Barrage. The point is to highlight how there are far more differences, which also happen to be significant and useful, between Bastille and Vortex than there are between Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm.
4 hours ago, LSG501 said:Then why even put it on there... that type of gameplay is the most lazy approach you can have in this game.
Agreed. But, at the very least, it differentiates Hydroid's 1 and 4.
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15 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:
I think this is just a personal bias against the playstyle of cc frames? I mean, i get it, they are all essentially area denial, duration based cc, but to me, they all serve a different purpose.
Tempest barrage, i pretty much just spam on cast cooldown. Tentacle swarm, I use on timer cooldown., either spread out just to slow down incoming waves, or i bunch them together to lock down an area that i'm not constantly barraging.
Basically, i use tempest barrage for engage and for safety, and tentacle swarm to stall Now you CAN use tempest barrage to stall, but it being locked at 10 meters with 1/4 of the duration makes it less effective at indirectly stalling enemies. Like you cant just passively cast tempest barrage while focusing on a group in front of you, and cc enemies all around you. You can with tentacle swarm.
The range of Tempest Barrage is misleading.
Four times each second, Tempest Barrage chooses a random point within 10m of the targeted location and causes an explosion that deals damage and knocks down all enemies within 5m.
If a missile were to land directly at the cast point of Tempest Barrage, it would not stun every enemy in the 10m area. With maximum range, however, a missile that were to land directly at the cast point of Tempest Barrage would damage and knock down all enemies within 12.5m, which is actually an area larger than the initial 10m targeting range.
As a result, Tempest Barrage has the ability to stun anything within a ~14 to ~25m Radius of your cast location, with Power Range affecting not just the total area it can affect, but also the reliability with which it does so.
Yes, this is a smaller area than a maximized Power Range Tentacle Swarm cast with a full charge, and it does not last as long. But with that said, unlike Tentacle Swarm, Tempest Barrage costs less Energy, does not have a target cap, does not make it as difficult to hit affected targets, can be recast an unlimited number of times, does not interrupt your animations, can damage enemies inside of Undertow, and is less dependent upon enemy spawn patterns and terrain to retain its efficacy over its full duration.
Unless you have a desperate need to target random enemies that are out of line of sight and are far beyond Tempest Barrage's effective radius, anything you can do with Tentacle Swarm you can do by casting Tempest Barrage.
The only real practical benefit Tentacle Swarm has that Tempest Barrage does not is that it lasts longer, but since half of its duration ends up wasted if enemies change their spawn patterns, this is solved by merely turning around to hit 1 twice as often as you would to hit 4.All this isn't to say that Tentacle Swarm is unusable. It's every bit as usable as Well of Life is on Trinity. It does do things. It just does what it does almost strictly worse than another ability that the same frame has easier access to.
This is NOT the same as Bastille / Vortex, because whilst those two abilities do overlap in that they are both area denial abilities, Bastille has substantially more range, is not as reliable due to its target cap, allows Vauban and his squad to easily score headshots, and Vortex is reliable, makes it difficult if not impossible to score headshots, forcibly relocates enemies, and combos with things such as the Gas status condition or the Pox Secondary Weapon in a way that Bastille does not. For the enemies it may not make much of a difference, but for the player, the choice behind pressing 3 or 4 is often huge. It often is moot as to which one is chosen, but there are also plenty of circumstances where there is an actual mechanical reason to choose one over the other.
Don't get me wrong. I use Tentacle Swarm. But every time I do, I'm aware that the only reason I have to do so is because I want to, and not because it actually does something significant that Tempest Barrage could not. -
2 hours ago, Buddhakingpen said:
I'm a hardcore hydroid enthusiast, and while it does have very legitimate usage as a way to maintain stealth damage multipliers it certainly isnt as attractive a move as tempest barrage. But its still has its uses, depending on what kind of cc you prefer. . Think of it like vaubans bastille vs vortex
I dont feel hydroid needs any more large buffs than he has honesty, as he's a frame with 4 cc moves as it is, armor shredding, tons of melee damage potential, and a scaling damage invincibility move.
The only changes i can see being balanced here is 3, with 5 suffering from the same redundancy thats being complained about. The rest being either overpowered or useless.
I'm aware of Tentacle Swarm's interaction with Stealth Multipliers, but I tend to avoid talking about it. Most of the time, Stealth Multipliers are unreliable, reliable but gimmicky, or hilariously overpowered. DE also has a habit of changing them, often without any sort of announcement, whether they mean to or not.
That aside, though, I think Bastille versus Vortex isn't the best comparison. Whilst those two abilities are somewhat redundant, (and should honestly also be looked at as a result) they still are far more different in their usage than Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm.
I do not feel as though Hydroid needs buffs, either. But he does need some differentiation between his first and his fourth abilities, and if that means he gets a small buff, I am totally on board.16 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:What if tentacle swarm worked like nidus' virulence? The fungal growth ability?
Virulence steals energy from each enemy it strikes
So allow the tentacles to do something like this and maybe even have little crab minions scurrying around.
Tidal surge and undertow would be the same ability
Tempest barrage would be the second ability
And a water canon for his one.
?
And i vote for a small tidal surge on every ground slam with the chance of the tentacle, not only the tentacle.
Hydroid has already been reworked, and DE is not going to radically change his powers. I do not want them to radically change his powers, and I doubt the old school Hydroid fans do, either.
I just want Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm to function in some role that is not (better) accomplished by Tempest Barrage, which is what this thread is about. -
53 minutes ago, LSG501 said:
Do you not know how much some of us hate being in squads with an ember player that knows no other way of playing than pressing 4 as soon as they start the level.....
Honestly all tentacle swarm needs in my opinion is faster charging (or removing it completely so it's like the old version) and more damage
Duh? That's why it is the last thing on the list.
The only reason I even suggested it is because, quite frankly, at least it would then be functionally different from Tempest Barrage. As it is now, they might as well be the same button. And in all honesty, Tempest Barrage usually does the job better.
Tentacle Swarm has the same issue that Well of Life has. Redundancy.
That's the problem.A lot of us are aware of that and want to feel like hitting the button does something that our other powers cannot.
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First off: Thank you DE, for all of your amazing work on Hydroid's revamp.
That said, there's just one major issue that still remains.
Tentacle Swarm has no significant tactical usage, as it is too functionally similar to Tempest Barrage. They are both somewhat unreliable powers that disable enemies and deal damage in a specific area. This would be fine if it weren't for the fact that both of these abilities are in on the same Warframe.
Here is a concise list of simple suggestions to improve Tentacle Swarm's usefulness provided in the order of my personal preference:
- Enemies killed whilst affected by Tentacle Swarm have a chance to drop a Health Orb.
- Tentacle Swarm's damage is reduced and changed to Impact, but now has a 15% Critical Chance, a 2.0 Critical Multiplier, a 25% Status Chance, and is affected by melee mods..
- Tentacle Swarm's damage now adds to the melee combo counter.
- Enemies killed whilst affected by Tentacle Swarm create an additional nearby Tentacle which lasts for the remaining duration or until the ability is recast.
- When Tentacle Swarm is recast, the Kraken resurfaces and rapidly travels to the designated position, ensnaring and dragging enemies along its path.
- Tentacle Swarm is now a toggled ability that follows Hydroid similar to World on Fire.
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34 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:
The thing is, Oberon's abilities don't fulfill their purpose.
You know why his 4 has the seemingly random effect of generating health orbs, right? Kubrows/Kavats are revived instantly upon picking one up. The fact that Reckoning requires to deal the killing blow in order to HAVE A CHANCE at creating the orb makes it not fulfill it's purpose. The correct way to buff this ability would have been forcing enemies hit by it for a set duration to have a chance to drop the orb.
The armor buff is okay at best considering flat armor falls off CONSIDERABLY after 300 armor. A frame with 300 armor has 50% DR. A frame with 600 has 66%.
His 1 and 3 changes were nothing spectacular, either. Buffs? Sure, though there have been complaints about the range of his 3. Meaningful? No.
All this "rework" did was give him a few % more damage reduction and create synergy that contradicts who he is as a frame.
How SHOULD the rework have been? Instead of flat armor, they should have made it flat DR % similar to Trinity, Mirage, Mesa, etc... and they should have made the health orb generation from his 4 on hit rather than on kill. The issue with his kit is that it lacked scaling at consistency, the changes solved neither.
Oberon had many issues with his kit which were solved with this rework, and I am baffled as to why people are insisting otherwise. Smite is relatively unchanged and remains a fun and effective ability. Hallowed Ground has a purpose and scales into late game via the Radiation proc--which I remind you is very effective CC, works with Condition Overload, and disables the Ancient Healer aura. Renewal no longer shuts off prematurely, it is more reliable for his allies, it has synergy with both himself and other Warframes, and it makes him infinitely more durable than he previously was. And finally, Reckoning still acts as a potent nuke on low level missions and a fine panic button source of CC against the toughest of content.
The only thing that leaves significant room for improvement is the fact that, I agree on Reckoning's Health Orb generation. It is a feature of the ability that becomes rather useless against even mid tier enemies, and completely moot on end game content, not to mention the endlessly scaling challenge runs the community is so fond of.
Also, in the name of education: Armor has no diminishing returns or falloff. Every 3 points of armor increase your effective health by 1% of your base health.
With 1000 HP and 300 armor, you can take 2000 damage before being downed. This is an additional 3.33 effective health per each point of armor. With 600 armor, you have 3000 effective health. Once again, this is an additional 3.33 health per each point of armor.Since both the health restoration and armor provided by Renewal scale with Power Strength, the durability it provides scales exponentially by investing in the stat. Damage reduction would be stronger, yes, but this is equally as effective in most cases, and more effective for allied Warframes that scale with armor, such as Frost or Rhino or Nezha. This also grants him synergy with allies, such as Trinity, who also grant damage reduction.
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4 hours ago, (PS4)CaptainIMalik said:
I would like shock to open finishers.
I'd like to cast Volt's abilities more, and get more use out of them.
I do not want to waste hours in finishing animations that won't kill the target when I could just melee something to death in a quarter of the time. -
17 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:
His 3 only has a 25 meter range at base with Limbo as the epicenter. It doesn't instantly effect everything in the rift. Also I think Rift Surge requires line of sight. You'll need to run around and spread the Rift Surge effect before you close your 4.
25 meters is a huge base range. It goes up to a maximum of 62.5 (which there is very good reason to do so, as Strength is largely irrelevant to Limbo). That's insane. I do not think it requires LoS, though I've yet to test that. And remember that Rift Surge will spread from any enemies that die with the Rift Surge buff. Your suggestion would change very little.
13 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:IMO, make Stasis gradually slow enemies and their projectiles to a halt over a few seconds, and adjust the damage formula on Cataclysm.
Instantly freezing enemies for 74+ seconds is hard CC gone overboard (how are non-nullifier enemies supposed to fight back). 10% of current remaining shields + HP still encourages spamming since you're stripping a percentage of their max shield/HP pools away with each cast, can't get damage better than that bar 1HKO.
Stasis is fine. Yes, it halts enemies for a very long amount of time, but it also prevents those enemies from being dispatched without being in the Rift, and even then powers and melee damage are the only types of damage that can interact immediately with them. Rift Surge, Banish, and Cataclysm naturally pull more and more enemies into the Rift, whether you intend to or not, and this can make using Stasis a very dangerous game. It is very easy to make a mistake and mismanage it, and even if you use it perfectly, it matters very little. There are far more powerful CC abilities in the game that are far more convenient to use. See: Irradiating Disarm. The issue with CC in this game is not necessarily that it makes us infallible. It is that it makes us infallible and removes all meaningful interaction. In no way shape or form does Stasis remove meaningful player interaction.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:
I'm glad we have Limbo's power. It makes higher level mission actually be playable from a DPS approach instead of stealth and tanking. His Cataclysm doesn't need a nerf, it just needs a set up. I would like the idea that the Cataclysm damage only be applied to enemies affected by Rift Surge. Non Surged enemies only get the 300 impact damage from rift transition. That's it.
This, at most, requires Limbo to press 4 3 4 rather than 4 4 and does not fix the fact that it is an incredibly non-interactive way to kill an entire tileset.
It needs its damage nerfed.
If it were up to me, I'd change the damage formula such that it does the plane transition damage, then the base damage of Cataclysm, and then does the scaling damage based upon the missing health, rather than the current health, of all units inside. The result would be that Cataclysm would function as a potent nuke to finish off enemies that did not quite die from the imminent damage you set up during your Stasis. -
Limbo does not need nerfed.
Cataclysm does. And just Cataclysm.
Limbo's Stasis is incredibly powerful, but it is honestly weaker and/or less convenient CC than many of the other forms we have in game already.The only way to use it is to drag enemies into the Rift. And to do that, Limbo must end his invulnerability long enough to cast Banish, use Rift Surge and Banish a target that is already in the Rift, or to use Cataclysm and Rift Surge, which will also (whether Cataclysm is detonated manually or ends naturally) end his invulnerability briefly. Those windows where Limbo is in the material plane or where Stasis must be toggled off are more than long enough for him to take damage or even be downed, and the cast time of Stasis is long enough to allow an enemy to fire off an attack. Whilst it will end up paused, it is very possible to allow a Bombard rocket to Red Light Green Light its way to him. Not to mention the fact that Limbo has to constantly be searching for enemies that are not yet in the Rift, and remembering to hit Rift Surge to make sure everything stays in the Rift.
The worst 'abuse' case of Stasis is that Limbo uses his abilities perfectly and never misses an enemy or loses track of what plane they are in, and he can indefinitely kill enemies without them being able to retaliate, thus ensuring mission success. But does that even matter? Stasis requires Limbo to constantly interact with his surroundings and use all of his powers, and in doing so he has dozens and dozens of opportunities to make mistakes. As a result, Stasis granting Limbo the potential to make missions infallible does not invalidate gameplay. It merely changes the rules of the game. And it does so in a way that is interactive and fun. -
All of Vauban's abilities and now Octavia's Mallet and Resonator abilities lob an initial projectile that must hit the ground before the ability takes effect. The concept is fine, but it has been years since Vauban's release and the execution still feels awful.
Is it just me? I always get the feeling I'm tossing bird feed out for the pigeons far more than I feel like I'm lobbing a grenade at someone.
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I'd like them, if they cover the following stats, and, most likely, only the following stats: Casting Speed, Friction, Slide, Sprint Speed, HP Regeneration, Shield Regeneration, Holster Rate, Knockdown Resistance, Knockdown Recovery Speed, Parkour Velocity, Aim Glide/Wall Latch Duration...And maybe one or two other stats I've forgotten about.
In short: Strictly utility.
Power Strength, Range, Duration, and Efficiency should ABSOLUTELY NOT be covered with Riven mods. I might change my opinion on that if they are treated as 'the same mod' in the way that Continuity and Primed Continuity do, etc.
We don't need more ways to min-max Power Strength or Range or Efficiency or Duration.
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On 1/21/2017 at 11:01 AM, Marine027 said:
Thats how most laser weapon types work thou and whould inbalance them to much, take heavy caliber for instance, it has advantage on those weapons since they not loose any accuracy, same goes Multishot, you simply shoot several laser at once at the same spot.
It simply can't spread if accuracy is 100% basicly. Othere weapons spread becasue of lower accuracy, simple as it is, they spread on its own naturaly so bullets with multishot spread even more.
Heavy Caliber does still affect their accuracy. Many weapons have their beam visually 'wobble' to affirm this, but you can also check on YouTube for several comparison videos.
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On 12/25/2016 at 8:48 PM, Satinpuppies said:
I was literally just thinking the same thing last night.
The one idea I've always had for Volt is changing Discharge's name back into Overload, and changing it to a toggled ability or a one time cast that improves your next basic ability.
Whilst active, all Shock casts cause the current Discharge effect at the target location, with a much smaller AoE, Speed provides CC immunity and damage reduction for its duration, and Electric Shield reflects all damage it receives back at the attacker with a 100% Electric status chance, and passing through one emits an AoE pulse of Electric damage and restores a flat amount of shields.
Or something.
Best comparison:
LoL's 'Karma'. -
Loki could do with some QoL tweaks and a minor nerf to Radial Disarm, but, otherwise, he's probably the best designed frame in the game.
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2 minutes ago, Larred said:
a bard with red veil just sounds laughable but i agree that syndicates will all offer a frame quest eventually, one i want is an assassin style frame from red veil
IDK, Red Veil has a lot to do with assassination, and isn't there a trope to bards/jesters, etc. being backstabbing murderous thieves?
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3 hours ago, KrypTic. said:
What are you even trying to discuss in this thread? I don't understand..
Also @YagoXiten his kit is already imo one of if not the most cohesive and actively used kit in the game. All of his abilities have fantastic conjunction with one another the only issue with Nidus as it stands is that his maggots don't consistently build combo, though not 100% necessary.
OP mentioned how Larva works more like Pull should. I responded by saying, no, Larva works how Vortex should. And then I go on to articulate how Vauban would be improved by having his Vortex replaced by Larva (in terms of functionality) and then you responded to me to tell me that Nidus' kit has synergy, which I'm well aware and never denied and is irrelevant to the point that I made.
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Once upon a time Mag's pull was reworked from a single-target ability to a cone in front of her that pulled enemies to her feet.
Then with no explanation, it was changed again to toss enemies around willy nilly, and has been that way ever since.
Larva should have been the way Vauban's Vortex worked. It'd set enemies up for his traps and actually make his kit cohesive, instead of feeling like Vortex/Bastille are basically the same AoE CC, with Vortex S#&$ting on your FPS and being annoying as hell when spammed.
Mag is, to put it lightly, a hot mess.
in Warframes
Posted
Don't get me wrong, there are a few builds I like on her. But I'd really like to not have to put in so much work and change my loadout or run specific weapons just to keep my damage and CC consistent across the various factions. I really hate losing a mod slot to Magnetized Discharge because its CC is strictly worse than Counter Pulse or Crush, but I'd like to control when Magnetize goes off. I know a lot of Mag players don't like Magnetized Discharge because they don't want to accidentally detonate Magnetize, which is fair and thus why I suggested adding that effect to Crush and making the Magnetize augment do what it currently does but in a way that's less redundant with Counter Pulse.
The big change is making Polarize strip armor without having to spam it or Fracturing Crush. Everything else is just QoL tweaks and bug fixes. Nothing here is all that crazy. I like Mag as she is, but I'm also not so biased that I can't see where she could easily be improved.