Burnthesteak87
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Posts posted by Burnthesteak87
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This is paranoia.
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Your dramatic language is over the top man >_>
They said in the TennoLive devstream that the maps "are very vertical" and promote the use of parkour, yet I have yet to see any extreme use of parkour.
Parkour being utilized in old conclave:
The current maps do not allow for "parkour". They allow for jumping, direction melee, and the occasional vertical-wall-climb. You can't connect wall-runs to other walls, no slingshot, no nothing.
As for energy on the map: having 6-8 energy locations on a map makes plenty of sense if they are only accessibly to one team. However, the current energy system allows for insane snowballing. In other words, if you get 100 energy, you can not only wipe their team out but also continue to pick up their energy orbs and continuously beat on them.
I'm honestly unsure of how to respond to the poem half of your post...
The acual Void Arena requires a lot of basejumping, wallrun to reach hidden passages.
I agree with you, this much energy allows for too much snowballing, but the problem isn't energy, is the Oneshot spamming from skills.
If damage would be toned down, and oneshot removed or limited to #4 with 3-5 mins cooldown, it would allow for a more strategic gameplay.
The only change I would make to energy spawns is to reduce its cooldown basing on the number of targets.
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A Veteran of a "not balanced system" declaring Bows should oneshot?
Nah.
Let's say that a garden not cured and left to himself grows in the most messy manner. If left on himself for too much time it can even become a savage place. Animals and creatures setting and living there get used and adapt to that environment, to its disorder.
The old Conclave grew savage with no rules, maybe you have some superior experience in combat, manouvers, movements and aim in such a savage environment, but that doesn't mean your experiences were grown in the right way.
A student with no good master can metabolize wrong concepts.
That's why a large amount of people weren't playing PVP no matter what.
I'd say that Oneshot shouldn't ever be allowed from a single source (guns, bows, attacks, abilities).
Another point which I don't agree is the energy on the map.
It's too much if you have a 1v1, 2v2 situation; in 4v4 that's the right quantity to sustain almost 3 players out of 8.
Stamina recharge must be slow, thus limiting the extraordinary mobility Warframes have.
When coptering will be gone or limited by stamina, the situation will change.
Parkour is very much present on the Void map.
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QoL, it's not necessary if you play premade. Anyway sooner or later you'll understand what color is from your own teammates.
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Realllly don't like the idea that abilities should be the answer to coptering.
Bigger maps, better map parkour routes and a nerf to slide melee damage are a better option imo.
Imho Maps aren't to blame, they're pretty well designed. Bigger maps would result just in a longer and more isolated gameplay which would elseway promote zerging (if reaching the fight zone would be too much long, usually players rather going around in big numbers instead than risking being catched alone.. check GuildWars2's crap PVP -it's an example, I don't want to argue about that crap game-).
Big maps are good only for Deathmatch games.
If we want to talk about maps, DE could decide to place freezing grounds or more obstacles on the shorter ways to make the run more difficult.
This way you can keep your agility unnerfed, but you'll have to use it carefully. Simple Risk VS Reward.
Elseway if we want some balancement/nerf, coptering and all the "exagerated mobility" issues would be limited with a Stamina rework.
With a limit given by stamina, a player wouldn't sprint eternally, sooner or later he will become slow and easier to catch.
Exactly as it happens on every PVP games in which stamina is a relevant limit to movement and manouvers.
After Stamina would have been reworked it would be nice even to see around Stamina Pickups too.
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This isn't feedback, this is random rant with non coherent motivations.
This has been done just for the sake of randomwriting.
"RNG who kills first?" Wtf? -
I invite you to read other posts. Please.
It's not a "I pass by and drop my experience here" thread.
It's not a "I think this and I'm not explaining in a smart way why" thread.
That's not constructive.
If you take time writing so much, you'll have time to read the other posts too and keeping it in mind before writing whatever passes in your mind.
And whatever, nobody is going to consider your opinion if you're not going to justify it. -
Oh no, I understand why content is consumed so rapidly, I would like to know why they need to increase the grind to power levels over 9000
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It's just a matter of logic, and I explained it yet.
More grind = more time to consume the content. It's simple. Plus, it's a deterrent to tempt (not to force) people buying platinums to cut down the time to grind.
After all it's a totally free to play game and you can get platinums even without spending money.
They don't live of air and love, it's a legit move.
If you still can't accept it, and want to play the little riot with all these fantastic mates living in this community, I've some worse new for you.
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Ooops I though it wasn't a thread about Grineer Manic...
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I get grinding is essentially what warframe is all about. Instead of nerfing credits give us another way of acquiring them.
We can speculate all we want about the way DE's game direction is going, we can even blame the Chinese company that bought them so easily months ago.
Or we can scream at them to wake up and stop this grind-wall operation.
I am a casual, I go to school I get good grades and for the FEW HOURS I HAVE TO RELAX IN THIS INSANE WORLD OF JOBLESSNESS AND POVERTY I want to just "play" a game.
Instead I have to farm, I have to farm instead of study I have to farm instead of spend time with my fiance, I have to FARM because if I don't spend all my time and effort into getting that "Thing" whatever it is, I won't ever get it.
Ill be stuck and wont be able to do "anything" because I wont have resources or credits.
Theres a fine line between casual carebare games and intense korean grindy mc grindo games that cause players to literally collapse because they stopped going to the bathroom to get a DROP.
Here's an idea, since we have an auto farmer(the extractors) for resources, give us one for credits. Make it worth platinum, and super rare for the "veteran" players. They could probably solve our problems right?....right?.. I don't know but I am throwing my weight in with the DE's going to far crowd
Bad news for you...
...Your Studies aren't giving you good results.
Hungry Nerd Community = content produced in 3 months, consumed in 3 days.
Just understand that the Grind is the only answer to give an hungry community something to pass time with.
But let's be honest... Hey it's better bashing DE's work instead than using our brain to understand why it is so...
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I've the answer!
"People"?
Did I win anything? -
I played several PvP shooters during the 90's and because of that I've grown accustomed to being killed/killing in a single hit. That's just the way things worked back then. Thunderbolt on water, snipers, Bio-rifle charged shot, ASMD rifle combo... You could get killed by all of those in a single hit and it happened very often.
However, there's a very important difference between 90's PvP and Warframe PvP. Warframe PvP only has three types of pickups: health, energy and ammo. The older shooters had more things to offer, such as "armor" or "extra health". So you could prevent people from one shooting you by grabbing some armor, additional health, or even a temporary invincibility item. Granted, you still had to stay alive long enough to find one of those pickups, but that was part of the dynamic. Also, the weapons were pickups back then so you had to "earn the right" to one shot people by competing for those weapons.
With all that said, to me this discussion is not actually about one shot being "right" or "wrong". It is about whether or not it has a place in Warframe PvP. And that depends a lot on what the PvP dev team is aiming for. If they decide to add different types of pickups then that would probably bring us closer to oldschool PvP. But if that is not what the team is aiming for, then I agree with Burnthesteak. We should not have one shots in PvP if you're not going to be offered any means to protect yourself against that kind of damage.
That's an amazing idea from old school games. Really Nice.
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You're dying because someone managed to hit your Warframe's head with a difficult to use weapon. How is that a broken and bad thought out mechanic? It's the player's lack of situational awareness which results in death in that scenario. As a competitive player, you should know the map's layout like the back of your hand, and as a result you should be able to have a general idea where all your opponents are at. It ultimately comes down to the player's fault because there are many precautions they can be taking to prevent getting one shot.
Having good movement is your best defense against difficult to land weapons... In addition to being able to pull off all of the parcour abilities on a whim, you need to be unpredictable. If you're moving predictably, then yeah, chances are you're going to get hit because it's not throwing off the player who's aiming.
You could have played PvP for the last 20 or so hours, but that doesn't make a difference if you don't possess critical thinking skills. I've had no issue winning most of my matches by simply ignoring energy restores; As it stands right now, I can grab the opponent's flag and get it back to my base in under 10 seconds. CTC isn't designed entirely around kills - it's an objective based gametype.
First of all I've replied more times that I'm not talking about Headshots but generic Oneshots. Body-hits oneshotting.
I'm fine if a skilled player is able to headshot me. I'm not ok if a skilled to unskilled player is abusing a bow to oneshot me every time I'm in its bow range.
The same with skills.
Then I thank you again, and again and again. I finally understood that "a moving target is better than a standing target". Sorry for the cheap irony, but you're pulling it out so many times, I'm becoming doubtful myself.. :P
What does make you think that your opponents were skilled players if even using energy they lost to a player not using energy?
Let's be honest, with the unskilled people running around even I could do such a thing.
The Rule here is: "What would a skillcapped player do with such option in this situation?"
So you're saying that someone who is putting in the effort to predict a player's crazy movement results in the game becoming dumbed down? That doesn't make any sense. I've already stated before that the damage of the fast charging bows should be tuned down a bit so that it doesn't one shot someone who has 100% effective HP. It should deal ~90% of their effective HP so that they can be finished off quickly, or if they're already taken some damage, they will die instantaneously.You're clearly misunderstanding my point. The "dumbing down" is the consequence of abusing Oneshot to kill opponents which will surely become the metagame.
Experience will make the player just better at predicting target's movement, it's part of the learning curve in every shooter.
I even proposed in the second page to reduce Bow's damage and increase the arrows speed...
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Grinding is the only answer to an hungry/no-life/nerd community.
It's the cheapest food for the hungriest mouths.
So essentially if the game is like this, it's because of its target.
Sorry.
Luckly Warframe can have smaller objectives that can still make enjoy people who haven't enough time to spend. -
Oh dear, the Drama and the Adulescent Trauma!
I want to see people suing legally DE for ruining their play times... -
It's not dying on the basis of my actions, it's dying on the basis of a broken and bad thought mechanic.
Having a good movement doesn't mean you'll always be alive and avoid oneshots most of the time.
As I wrote on the first post, it's like having about 20% possibilities vs 80% opponent's with Oneshot ready. With Oneshots pending on your head means the smaller error is death. And not your opponent's error, because when people will become skilled, they won't miss their chance the most of the times.
You claim that energy isn't necessary to win, this is clearly an unexperienced statement, I've played more than 8 hours this PVP (the game isn't still that rich and deep) and... energy for ults is necessary. Energy control is the actual way to play.
I'm not asking to dumb down the game. The total opposite, the Oneshot mechanic is dumbing down it. Because when you'll understand that the only way to fight back who Oneshots you is to do the same, the metagame will lock around it.
Also regarding the bow, I don't think those fingers are enough to stop the leak on the dam.
I'm not interested into attack and defense cheap talks, don't answer for pride, answer with logic please. -
The thing is that there isn't that much of a negative consequence for dying in CTC unless you're the flag carrier. You respawn in a relatively short amount of time and the maps are so small that you can pretty much get where you need to in 10 seconds or less if you're proficient at the game's movement system. The only thing you really lose is your energy, and it's still possible to be competitive without any abilities... just be good at aiming and hitting fast moving targets.
When you die, you'll stay dead for some time. Meanwhile your team plays 3v4.
By another point of view it's not funy at all, the fight should involve action and reaction, not a flat boom, oneshot, respawn, boom, oneshot, respawn, etc.
It's not possible being competitive without abilities and energy, when the opponent team controls energy and spam #4 to wipe clear your teammates.
As I wrote on the first post, a solid PVP should offer everyone the chance to fight back or to react. Elseway it will be just a massacre to who would oneshot first.
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Are we talking about abilities too? I played with an Excal that one shots me with Slash Dash what?
Read the first post.
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I think the Paris MK-1 charges up a bit too fast for the amount of damage it deals. I think the damage can be tuned down a bit, but headshots should still do somewhere from 80-95% of a player's maximum effective HP. If you're able to land headshots on opponents consistently, then you should be rewarded for doing so.
Just because you have a belief does not mean it's true.
Headshots performed with bows are 100% dependent on the player's skill level. The arrows are not hitscan and their trajectory has a slight arc, meaning you can't just click on someone's head and expect to get a kill... you have to predict where your opponent is moving and lead the arrow to get a chance at hitting them. If you're on the receiving end of this consistently, it might be because your movement is terrible. I don't know why you're so fixated on headshots when there's other offenders that are significantly worse In terms of effectiveness vs player input/effort/skill required.
Its a matter of generic Oneshots, not headshots.
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Now let's see where you are wrong.
First, I said I haven't read every argument, I read all the needed bits to formulate my argument. I don't need the various bits about he said she said, blah blah. I stated that simply to justify if I missed someone ninja'ing the argument in before me in the last half of the most recent page of text walls. You don't need to act like you're talking down to me because I haven't read 100% of the thread, that shows conceit, which I am 100% sure from your response, you are conceited.
After reading your post twice.
Sorry I'm not talking down to you neither am I conceited. English isn't my first language and I yet think I'm not expressing like a monkey.
I simply explained the point from another perspective and you overreacted thinking of being talked down. I'm sorry for this, it wasn't my intent.
I'd like to hear valid arguments, not people claiming "I think that bows should oneshot because they need skill" "try dodging or blocking arrows". I yet explained why.These are simply naive claims.
I'm a Shooter experienced person, I understand pretty well the situation, by both a tactical p.o.v. both the influent mechanics in pvp.
I thank you for your hints but I don't see the point in you throwing at me your playstyle, decisions, the logic behind and all those verbose claims.
It just makes things more complicated than they are.
What I'm asking is why you think Oneshots should be in game and what's the logic after it? Do you really trust it, even after reading other's opinions?
If you're interested into helping the community, then express, elseway, I'm really not interested into personal ego-fights.
PS: This isn't a valid answer.
By virtue of how the paris functions, you should not be getting back up after an arrow with enough force to pierce through a solid chunk of steel rips through your body anywhere. Game over, you aren't functional.PPS:
First of all, if you would like to join a constructive thread you should follow it.This phrase was to discourage people passing by to drop naive statements or discussions about points yet discussed.
...With a scarce success, as I see.
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First of all, if you would like to join a constructive thread you should follow it.
Talking about "skill in using a weapon" is not a good motivation. If you can't use a weapon which oneshots players you won't use it. If you master that weapon you will kill most of the time your target. If you want to win, you'll learn to use it no matter what.
The "skill required"-matter is simply an argument brought up by PVP egokids who want to valorize themselves and feel better than the mass. That's an "ego"-related problem, not reality.
It's important that these kind of things stay out of PVP, because elseway will become mandatory meta, ruining the game.
Example? Were you playing Doom3 PVP in 2005? People used mostly Rocketlauncher and Shotgun to oneshot opponents, no matter what. That became the meta. Meeting and camping at the weapon spawn point, who gets the weapon kills others.
There mustn't be oneshotting weapons.
By what you have written, having a bow pointed toward you actually means you should stop everything you are doing (running away included), get melee and turn your face to your enemy to block arrows, becoming a slow moving helpless target, prone to other enemies attacking you, is this what are you meaning?
That's not counterplay, it's a Death Sentence, it is the only broken way you have to face (not to fight back) an unbalanced feature. Over the fact that sooner or later your stamina will end and Arrows will pass through your parry..
Being targeted by a oneshot weapon isn't PVP. -
No, with the actual high mobility Crowd Controls would be the optimal answer. Istant death musn't be justified at all.
And to be precise, the real problem with mobility is the fact Stamina regenerates too much fast, thus people spam zorencoptering and rush freely. -
Less offtopic, more ontopic please, you can discuss privately by Private Messages.
Thanks -
I noticed it has a medium range and a non indifferent casting time. While you cast it, you're a standing still easy target.
Also it falls under LOS limitation and the target can still dodgeroll to soak damage or hide to neglect it.
Talking about balance, it's better than an oneshot skill, it requires more efforts and can be denied.
Maybe the duration or the casting time can be fixed to balance it.
Pvp: Oneshots Don't Belong Competitive Pvp
in Conclave
Posted
It's ok, with a rotation different maps will force different gameplays, but ..don't you think that larger maps will just support more the "zerg" playstyle?
I've seen it yet on another games, where the numeric advantage was proportional to the time to reach the fight zone.