Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[miomima]

24 минуты назад, Xydeth сказал:

and all of this is still not making her a tank.

If 50k EHP (while holding block with any melee weapon she have similar EHP with fully moded inaros) with ability to self heal, and having a BFG is not a tank, then i dont know what "tank" means. Right now you dont even need damage from spores, just proke them with 100-200% strenght so they remove all armor and miasma kill everything. Lets give Volt ability to strip all armor from all enemies around with his 1st ability, change damage to viral while still keeping stun proc, that how absourd Saryn is. And all that comparing with other popular and strong frame, and he not even close.

[Cibyllae]

5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you are being ridiculous. we can have high damage AOE but saryn's AOE was over buffed. as another poster said Overextended needs to get nerfed, or AOE needs range cap.

You're not addressing the problem I put forth, which means you didn't grasp the spirit of what I said. What I said had nothing to do with any specific frame, what I said had to do with the top frame. There will always be a top frame that will outperform everyone. More range more damage, this is a   f u c k i n g  f a c t. It is a symptom of EVERY pve game and it cannot go away. This community will always complain until whatever frame is number 1 (god rest his soul) is no longer number 1. And then guess what, a new frame to abuse will become number 1, do you see what I am getting at now? Do you see how this is cyclical? Maybe the problem isn't people abusing frames, the issue is that people need to abuse frames. And that's a fact. Warframe's grind is notorious, and the bad thing is, I don't think it should change. Right! This is what people call a rock and a hard place! Finding this solution is not going to be easy! Nerf overextended? Everyone is just going to spam high damage projectile abilities. The meta will change, but there will always be a meta. And people will still complain! Find a way to not change the level of grind and make it bearable, because right now its unbearable. This issue is not specific to Saryn, this is a meta problem, a problem that reaches into the different parts of the game. That means, fiddling around in one aspect of the game, which this meta problem is affecting, will not actually change the problem. Maybe if you nerf 4 (or more) different frames in a row because those frames are room clearing too fast, the focus shouldn't be, "we need to stop people from room clearing," and start asking, "why do people feel like they need to room clear?" "why do people want to room clear?"

[Xolgys]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb miomima:

If 50k EHP (while holding block with any melee weapon she have similar EHP with fully moded inaros) with ability to self heal, and having a BFG is not a tank, then i dont know what "tank" means. Right now you dont even need damage from spores, just proke them with 100-200% strenght so they remove all armor and miasma kill everything. Lets give Volt ability to strip all armor from all enemies around with his 1st ability, change damage to viral while still keeping stun proc, that how absourd Saryn is. And all that comparing with other popular and strong frame, and he not even close.

i dont know if i should laugh or cry...i will do probably both and then forget i ever read this.

[miomima]

5 минут назад, Cibyllae сказал:

You're not addressing the problem I put forth, which means you didn't grasp the spirit of what I said. What I said had nothing to do with any specific frame, what I said had to do with the top frame. There will always be a top frame that will outperform everyone. More range more damage, this is a   f u c k i n g  f a c t. It is a symptom of EVERY pve game and it cannot go away. This community will always complain until whatever frame is number 1 (god rest his soul) is no longer number 1. And then guess what, a new frame to abuse will become number 1, do you see what I am getting at now? Do you see how this is cyclical? Maybe the problem isn't people abusing frames, the issue is that people need to abuse frames. And that's a fact. Warframe's grind is notorious, and the bad thing is, I don't think it should change. Right! This is what people call a rock and a hard place! Finding this solution is not going to be easy! Nerf overextended? Everyone is just going to spam high damage projectile abilities. The meta will change, but there will always be a meta. And people will still complain! Find a way to not change the level of grind and make it bearable, because right now its unbearable. This issue is not specific to Saryn, this is a meta problem, a problem that reaches into the different parts of the game. That means, fiddling around in one aspect of the game, which this meta problem is affecting, will not actually change the problem. Maybe if you nerf 4 (or more) different frames in a row because those frames are room clearing too fast, the focus shouldn't be, "we need to stop people from room clearing," and start asking, "why do people feel like they need to room clear?" "why do people want to room clear?"

im alright with meta and some frame baing number 1 if he not deleting all enemies on map with couple button presses and work for every kill like other frames, even if hes work is bit easier than others.

[miomima]

4 минуты назад, Xydeth сказал:

i dont know if i should laugh or cry...i will do probably both and then forget i ever read this.

You always can commit sudoku %)

[Cibyllae]

1 minute ago, miomima said:

im alright with meta and some frame baing number 1 if he not deleting all enemies on map

that's what being number one means, it means that frame kills more enemies faster, than every other frame. And that will always be the case.

[Xolgys]

Gerade eben schrieb miomima:

You always can commit sudoku %)

yea...i will commit sudoku...LOL

this comment somehow fits ur other comments, just this time its nothing to do with saryn i guess...

[Xolgys]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Cibyllae:

that's what being number one means, it means that frame kills more enemies faster, than every other frame. And that will always be the case.

yep, but people dont get it. people cried bout ember. she got kill-nerfed. now it saryn whos next to receive some salt for no reason~ all praise the almighty god of salt and pepper~

[miomima]

1 минуту назад, Xydeth сказал:

yea...i will commit sudoku...LOL

this comment somehow fits ur other comments, just this time its nothing to do with saryn i guess...

memes is hard, i understand 😄

[Xolgys]

Gerade eben schrieb miomima:

memes is hard, i understand 😄

i think its pretty clear who doesnt understand, but ill leave it at that.

[Sahansral]

Saryn removes armor en passant. And halves enemy hp in a large radius (with stun on top).

If apologists need the "but with 4 CPs any damage frame can do the same"-argument, it's pretty obvious that something is wrong, very wrong.

The same with this "but she can't out-tank Inaros".

She is fun (when you play her), but for the other group members is worse than Ember ever was, because it affects mission types are stationary and endless.

With Ember you could at least just rush through the capture/exterminate mission and try the next group. But with Saryn you just watch paint dry on the wall and count the waves.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Sahansral

[EinheriarJudith]

30 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

You're not addressing the problem I put forth, which means you didn't grasp the spirit of what I said. What I said had nothing to do with any specific frame, what I said had to do with the top frame. There will always be a top frame that will outperform everyone. More range more damage, this is a   f u c k i n g  f a c t. It is a symptom of EVERY pve game and it cannot go away. This community will always complain until whatever frame is number 1 (god rest his soul) is no longer number 1. And then guess what, a new frame to abuse will become number 1, do you see what I am getting at now? Do you see how this is cyclical? Maybe the problem isn't people abusing frames, the issue is that people need to abuse frames. And that's a fact. Warframe's grind is notorious, and the bad thing is, I don't think it should change. Right! This is what people call a rock and a hard place! Finding this solution is not going to be easy! Nerf overextended? Everyone is just going to spam high damage projectile abilities. The meta will change, but there will always be a meta. And people will still complain! Find a way to not change the level of grind and make it bearable, because right now its unbearable. This issue is not specific to Saryn, this is a meta problem, a problem that reaches into the different parts of the game. That means, fiddling around in one aspect of the game, which this meta problem is affecting, will not actually change the problem. Maybe if you nerf 4 (or more) different frames in a row because those frames are room clearing too fast, the focus shouldn't be, "we need to stop people from room clearing," and start asking, "why do people feel like they need to room clear?" "why do people want to room clear?"

this is a joke right? even if warframe wasnt grindy people would still be trying to find easy ways to do things. warframes grind isnt notorious. i can name a hand full of games who grind you would dare not even do.

this isnt about being number 1 or any number. this is about 1 person doing the work of 4 people in a 4 person squad and 3 other people being able to stand there and literally do nothing. if you cant understand what that means you have a long way to go.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Xydeth:

yep, but people dont get it. people cried bout ember. she got kill-nerfed. now it saryn whos next to receive some salt for no reason~ all praise the almighty god of salt and pepper~

You could just as well claim she was killed by buffing (kill-buffed?) others to ridiculous degrees (like Saryn).

This whole slippery slope argument about anyone always being no. 1 (which still doesn't mean that others wouldn't at least be able to compete (when played skillfully) if gaps weren't so extreme) could just as easily be turned around for the "buff everything instead" crowd: You buff one after another and one will still be the best so we have to buff the others some more then someone else might turn out to be the best etc. etc. until we're able to 1 shot every map with lvl 9999 mobs by press of a single button with every single frame there is, only the energy colors are different.

Also Ember's still perfectly viable. Jeesh, all that's changed is you have to manage your energy a bit now.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb EinheriarJudith:

this is a joke right? even if warframe wasnt grindy people would still be trying to find easy ways to do things. warframes grind isnt notorious. i can name a hand full of games who grind you would dare not even do.

this isnt about being number 1 or any number. this is about 1 person doing the work of 4 people in a 4 person squad and 3 other people being able to stand there and literally do nothing. if you cant understand what that means you have a long way to go.

Yeah, if the game is too grindy for you:

Complain about grind.

And don't defend means to skip that grind that effectively kill actual gameplay (arguably making the grind even MORE of a boring chore anyway).

[Cibyllae]

47 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

this is about 1 person doing the work of 4 people in a 4 person squad and 3 other people being able to stand there and literally do nothing. if you cant understand what that means you have a long way to go.

You're not understanding that there will always be a frame that allows someone to do that, and it is not  a symptom of saryn but the of pve games as a whole.

 

54 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you cant understand what that means you have a long way to go. 

 

[miomima]

3 минуты назад, Cibyllae сказал:

You're not understanding that there will always be a frame that allows someone to do that, and it is not  a symptom of saryn but the of pve games as a whole.

 

 

It is a symptom of AOE damage without any skill bassed way of delivering. Imagine if chroma or valkyr with their curent kit gona be considered TOP, how its gona change the game when top frames is ones that buff your teamates, thier ability provide stats to them and everyone around, and all special they have its a lot of damage in melee?

[Cibyllae]

8 minutes ago, miomima said:

It is a symptom of AOE damage without any skill bassed way of delivering.

Name a frame that delivers AoE damage in a skill based way

[miomima]

6 минут назад, Cibyllae сказал:

Name a frame that delivers AoE damage in a skill based way

There is none, clossest to being not as simple is oberon and equinox. With first one you need to combine your abilities and they still cost a lot of energy and have fairly small AOE, with second you need rump up damage with weapons or other teamates, and while delivering all this damage you cant refill energy because its channeling.

[Xolgys]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Kotsender_Quasimir:

You could just as well claim she was killed by buffing (kill-buffed?) others to ridiculous degrees (like Saryn).

This whole slippery slope argument about anyone always being no. 1 (which still doesn't mean that others wouldn't at least be able to compete (when played skillfully) if gaps weren't so extreme) could just as easily be turned around for the "buff everything instead" crowd: You buff one after another and one will still be the best so we have to buff the others some more then someone else might turn out to be the best etc. etc. until we're able to 1 shot every map with lvl 9999 mobs by press of a single button with every single frame there is, only the energy colors are different.

Also Ember's still perfectly viable. Jeesh, all that's changed is you have to manage your energy a bit now.

ember is another topic and viable rly depends on the level of enemies and faction ur up against. shes a diffult topic right now. i am absolutely fine with her and my melee only build on her but many would prolly consider her dead compared to before since shes waaaay less seen.

[Sahansral]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb Cibyllae:

Name a frame that delivers AoE damage in a skill based way

Nezha with pyroclastic flow or firewalker + blazing chakram. 

And for the laughs, Zephyr Divebomb.

Yes, pathetic in comparison with Saryn. And that's the point...

If you want the maximum of impact for a minimum of effort in some mission types, look no further then Saryn.

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Sahansral

[Cibyllae]

35 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Nezha with pyroclastic flow or firewalker + blazing chakram. 

And for the laughs, Zephyr Divebomb.

Yes, pathetic in comparison with Saryn. And that's the point...

If you want the maximum of impact for a minimum of effort in some mission types, look no further then Saryn.

 

In my mind I implied it in my question, but AoE damage that is effective. The point of me asking the question is AoE damage is binary. Its either good enough to abuse, or not good enough and not used at all. And that's because not only is there no skill based AoE damage abilities in warframe, you can't make AoE skill based in warframe. You'll be hard pressed to find any game that has skill based AoE abilities. If it is an AoE ability, it is not skill based.  Which brings me to my first point.

 

Are we just going to nerf every top aoe frame until every aoe frame is  s h i t?

[miomima]

2 минуты назад, Cibyllae сказал:

In my mind I implied it in my question, but AoE damage that is effective. The point of me asking the question is AoE damage is binary. Its either good enough to abuse, or not good enough and not used at all. And that's because not only is there no skill based AoE damage abilities in warframe, you can't make AoE skill based in warframe. You'll be hard pressed to find any game that has skill based AoE abilities. If it is an AoE ability, it is not skill based.  Which brings me to my first point.

 

Are we just going to nerf every top aoe frame until every aoe frame is  s h i t?

Better delete AOE-frame as category, introduce line of sight to all abilities (because its kinda makes sense). Imagine if Saryn spores only deal damage and proc corrosive in AOE when you actualy shot them - that skilfull (want some corrosive aoe damage with status proc - aim for it, of not then spores just gona be on enemies doing nothing). So yea, make them as you describe "bad".

[Cibyllae]

Just now, miomima said:

Better delete AOE-frame as category, introduce line of sight to all abilities (because its kinda makes sense).

Exactly! This is not a Saryn problem. This is a warframe design problem.

[(XBOX)Vile Slanders]

6 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

I mean according to steam sale charts they're financially so successful you can't tell me they couldn't afford to pay someone to stand in simulacrum, fully modded, and spam 4 for 2 minutes or so once in a while to see if everything immediately vaporizes or not, because this is literally all it would have taken to see that Limbo's old-new cataclym (nerfed again shortly after) wasn't that great of an idea for his 1st big rework back then.

They wouldn't have to pay me so much as a plat. Getting to break and exploit a new frame's mechanics before anyone else can? Hell, I'd that for free.

[Kraythax]

So you go into elite onslaught to farm a bit of focus, maybe level up a weapon and there is one critical problem. Saryn. Every Saryn player I have met acts selfish and instead of going in solo if they want to solo the map, they go in with a full team of 4, take 90% or more of the damage and you get nothing. And forget leaving if there is a Saryn in party, I tried that and 12 games in a row I left,  until I said "to heck with it and logged off." I am a paying customer and don't pay to be bored. SARYN IS STUPIDLY unbalanced. She makes the old "Entire map on fire" Ember look like a minor player.  Either NERF SARYN hard .. or at least enable meditate in ESO so that I can just sit there while Saryn kills everything. 

Just bought more plat before I logged on today, but now I feel stupid. I think time to put this game down a while. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Kraythax