Chroma needs a rework

[Dishonored]

KANEDA!!!

[Koeboldt]

17 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

honestly i am not really sure why chroma has effigy except to loosely tie him to something like a shaman. would of rather see a mobility ability that involved those energy wings. besides he plays more akin to a berserker then any supportive related roles dive in and attempt to deal more damage then the group of mobs that your attacking. at least they can leave the pelt summon as a gear wheel special interaction that gives a so so credit booster. 

I see where you're coming from with this. It really doesn't make sense what they were going for when they designed his kit like this. I feel like the effigy kind of ability would be much better suited for another warframe of a different theme. I don't understand how you can get shamanistic berserker when you're trying to go for dragon.

[Koeboldt]

What's the chance DE actually reads any of the suggestions we give though, don't think much will happen until they're ready to make it happen sadly.

 

[ZodiacShinryu]

4 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

side note: #1 is changed into an opticor blast rather than the useless flame thrower...

Not that I am particularly opposed to Opticor/Arca like firing however Ignis is great and is useful for status type situations. The problem is that Spectral Scream doesn't even work like Ignis not even before the Beam mechanism update. Moving Spectral Scream to an exalted class ability and giving it the beam/continuous treatment would go a long way.

Also I recently was looking through some weapons (I probably noticed it when it was released as well) but... WTH does Khora's signature weapon Hysterix (sp?) have a switch firing mode of elemental quills?! Other than the fact it rubs in Chroma's face that a gun plays his mechanic better than him... It should have been his and got AK primed!

[maddragonmaster]

i feel like some people are missing the point of why it wouldn't fit chroma if he was given a elemental swap and it all has to do with chromatic chroma-tic which means color. i just remembered this and find it would be just plain ridiculous just to slap an elemental swap when his name and and kit is based around this idea. as much as players and fashion framers dislike it or hate it, its apart of chroma and just slapping a in mission ability to swap elements would be senseless in his theme and rather pointless honestly, there is barely any difference between heat, cold, electric, and toxic chroma so please tell me outside of elemental wards buff and status procs does elemental swapping offer when compared to equinox?  zero since equinox's gameplay is based around her theme.

the best thing at least fashion framers can hope for is to have a way of changing how energy colors effect his elemental ward, or allow us to choose what effects it primary, secondary, tertiary, accents, or energy colors.

let me lay down how this doesn't make sense imagine if DE made volt do radiation or corrosive procs because enough players demanded it for some reasoning. his name is volt and his theme is using the force of electricity, he doesn't do corrosive or radiation damage. or how about this, if DE swapped radiation procs for heat procs or cold procs on oberon. or if DE made ember do blast damage and blast procs?

or in a better example imagine if equinox was made to be more like chroma were the determining factor on day or night mode could only be done at the orbiter. besides me for sure knowing everyone would be throwing a fit with that change, it would of basicly diluted her gameplay and what she was sold as.

also vauban had received those reworks that had one of his abilities or 2 have a cycle mechanic and apparently he is still being unused enough to warrant another rework.

as much as i can guess chroma is based on some of the dragons in the old pen and paper games like dungeon and dragons were scale color was a indicator of what the dragon had for a breath weapon.

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[ZodiacShinryu]

4 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

i feel like some people are missing the point of why it wouldn't fit chroma if he was given a elemental swap and it all has to do with chromatic chroma-tic which means color. i just remembered this and find it would be just plain ridiculous just to slap an elemental swap when his name and and kit is based around this idea.

As much as I don't want to get into this with you again but... a swap doesn't have to betray the "color" theme. Besides "Chroma" is a nod to DnD chromatic dragons which have much more restrictive traits that dictate their alignment rather than simply color of their breath. He is already betraying his "theme" by only being affected by his energy color. To which, a swap could change the overall elemental color while your own energy color is an added flair effect; for example Heat type/Blue energy = Orangish Heat Breath with Bluish flame flares mixed in. Dual Color energy syndanas and sigils already exist (some more buggy than others) so its not like this is a stretch especially since the flair colors can be designed in itself. Everything still affected by "color" just now the players have a choice on the aesthetics of it.

This isn't real physical objects. You can make anything work the way you want it to if you put time and effort into it. Though really that all depends on what you want to call his actual theme: "Elemental Master", "Dragon", or "Color". He is suppose to be an "Elemental Master" as a theme taken shape through the aesthetics of the chromatic dragons. But he need not be bound by silly made up rules.

5 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

let me lay down how this doesn't make sense imagine if DE made volt do radiation or corrosive procs because enough players demanded it for some reasoning. his name is volt and his theme is using the force of electricity, he doesn't do corrosive or radiation damage. or how about this, if DE swapped radiation procs for heat procs or cold procs on oberon. or if DE made ember do blast damage and blast procs?

Not even in the scope of what people want in such a comparison. Plus Chroma actually has access to his other elements just not in an operable timeframe, what people want is just full access to Chroma as they please.

5 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

also vauban had received those reworks that had one of his abilities or 2 have a cycle mechanic and apparently he is still being unused enough to warrant another rework.

I am not sure what that has to do with Chroma. Correlation does not equal Causation as the saying goes. They gave it to "Bounce" because Bounce at the time was more of a transversal ability that was easily outdone with Parkour 2.0 and bullet-jumping (much like Super Jump on Excalibur). So DE gave him more "tools" to try fit his theme and Bounce is actually still in Minelayer in a buffed form. But they didn't give him Minelayer to fix his overall playability. And the problems with Vauban have less to do with his powers and more to do with the rest of the game. He is a CC frame in a game where killing is key. It doesn't help that the top 3 game-modes (ESO, Endless, and Eidolons) all don't need his CC especially with the likes of Limbo around; which DE made super brokenly friendly. CC has taken a back seat now that our killing potential is so high that we have to get to extreme ends of scaling to validate forcing the extra time to kill through CC because our damage finally gives out. That said Bastille and Vortex are too similar, both mostly CC powers but if given the choice you'd rather use Vortex (it is basically a better Bastille) because it groups and rag-dolls while opening ground finishers. Tesla and Minelayer are also too similar where Tesla + Augment is basically a buffed up version on a mine (Tripwire). Simply Vauban has a lot of problems though his new passive is pretty neat.

5 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

or in a better example imagine if equinox was made to be more like chroma were the determining factor on day or night mode could only be done at the orbiter. besides me for sure knowing everyone would be throwing a fit with that change, it would of basicly diluted her gameplay and what she was sold as.

This is a strange example given how different their final specifications came out (and when) but in the end it is just a reverse example where one is a step backwards and the other is arguably a step forward. Equinox has two forms that actually function as powerful warframes separately in their own right, let alone she can switch between them. They also don't share a whole lot in common between each other than the basics of the aura or targeter. It would make more sense for them to be under Chroma's current conditions than Chroma is but yes it would dilute her gameplay. With that Chroma functions pretty much the same in all forms because 3 of this abilities do exactly the same thing in each of them; even then the Wards themselves aren't incredibly different (it is almost as if it is a passive you actively have to manage!?). Chroma feels diluted RIGHT NOW because of the same reason you think Equinox would be diluted... Forced separation of a skill set that should be together. But still, Chroma needs more work in his other powers as well unlike Equinox even if we did separate her forms.

I can understand your desire to just buff up his forms but only in so far that it is just that... your desire. Even then a swap doesn't preclude fixing anything else on Chroma. At this point it will take work either way on DE's end but it is up to DE to decide on they would want to tackle the issue (and right now it is not at all). However if "dilution" was a problem you wanted to fix I can guarantee you that you won't accomplish it by just making his walls bigger rather than making the all flow together.

And for emphasis I'll just put my thoughts from the post above you to express how silly it is that Chroma functions like he does (at least for me):

7 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Also I recently was looking through some weapons (I probably noticed it when it was released as well) but... WTH does Khora's signature weapon Hysterix (sp?) have a switch firing mode of elemental quills?! Other than the fact it rubs in Chroma's face that a gun plays his mechanic better than him... It should have been his and got AK primed!

 

[RoronoaAngleo]

This could be his new passive then

"X" percentage of chance for status effect to not apply or proc and the nerf for this could be the same mechanic for selecting chromas element now

De will have to decide on the. X

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

13 hours ago, (PS4)oli-nvers said:

1 more idea (concept) for chroma’s rework

change his passieve whereto he can absorb elemental damage lAnd get a buf when he gets hit by a proc.

He is the master of elements after all.

The buff would last fr 15- 20 seconds

and Every element has its own buff effect.

frost = speed/fire rare buff to counter the slow. 75% increase to negate the 50% And gain 25% as a bonus.

fire = gain a passive per second heal buff

electric = gain an energy buff of 25

magnetic = overshield or just a shield buff

radiation = strengetje buff of 20% (really don’t know what would go with radiation).feel free to Add on to this.

blast = armor buff

viral = Health buff

his 1st ability is trash And we need a new one!

i aggree with most people that chroma needs to be able to toggle his elements in this one.

make an element wheel like vaubans grenades or ivaras quiver.

and make the 1st ability a roar like the effigy one does with a stun And dmg component.

each roar has a correspondent element procc to it. And if the stun is op make it a small knockback or blind ( add cc)

his 3rd ability needs to add a bit more armor. His dmg is ok but chroma is a tank but is kinda lackluster on that point imho.

his 4th ability can be used as a buff to the whole team. Make it a duration based buff on his pelt with a fix range on it. Make it something like octavia’s Tollerbal stil putting out dmg as it does normaly but now Everyone benefits from it and it’s always by your side.

well this was just an idea. 

Feel free to add or adjust things!!! 

 

 

With the old formula for armor it would be very very great ( maybe a little more damage, like 25% not more). 

I think that like this Chroma will be very fun. 

 

I leave a link to an idea of new ability for Chroma... Tell me if it's great or just trash. 

 

[maddragonmaster]

6 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

As much as I don't want to get into this with you again but... a swap doesn't have to betray the "color" theme. Besides "Chroma" is a nod to DnD chromatic dragons which have much more restrictive traits that dictate their alignment rather than simply color of their breath. He is already betraying his "theme" by only being affected by his energy color. To which, a swap could change the overall elemental color while your own energy color is an added flair effect; for example Heat type/Blue energy = Orangish Heat Breath with Bluish flame flares mixed in. Dual Color energy syndanas and sigils already exist (some more buggy than others) so its not like this is a stretch especially since the flair colors can be designed in itself. Everything still affected by "color" just now the players have a choice on the aesthetics of it.

This isn't real physical objects. You can make anything work the way you want it to if you put time and effort into it. Though really that all depends on what you want to call his actual theme: "Elemental Master", "Dragon", or "Color". He is suppose to be an "Elemental Master" as a theme taken shape through the aesthetics of the chromatic dragons. But he need not be bound by silly made up rules.

Not even in the scope of what people want in such a comparison. Plus Chroma actually has access to his other elements just not in an operable timeframe, what people want is just full access to Chroma as they please.

I am not sure what that has to do with Chroma. Correlation does not equal Causation as the saying goes. They gave it to "Bounce" because Bounce at the time was more of a transversal ability that was easily outdone with Parkour 2.0 and bullet-jumping (much like Super Jump on Excalibur). So DE gave him more "tools" to try fit his theme and Bounce is actually still in Minelayer in a buffed form. But they didn't give him Minelayer to fix his overall playability. And the problems with Vauban have less to do with his powers and more to do with the rest of the game. He is a CC frame in a game where killing is key. It doesn't help that the top 3 game-modes (ESO, Endless, and Eidolons) all don't need his CC especially with the likes of Limbo around; which DE made super brokenly friendly. CC has taken a back seat now that our killing potential is so high that we have to get to extreme ends of scaling to validate forcing the extra time to kill through CC because our damage finally gives out. That said Bastille and Vortex are too similar, both mostly CC powers but if given the choice you'd rather use Vortex (it is basically a better Bastille) because it groups and rag-dolls while opening ground finishers. Tesla and Minelayer are also too similar where Tesla + Augment is basically a buffed up version on a mine (Tripwire). Simply Vauban has a lot of problems though his new passive is pretty neat.

This is a strange example given how different their final specifications came out (and when) but in the end it is just a reverse example where one is a step backwards and the other is arguably a step forward. Equinox has two forms that actually function as powerful warframes separately in their own right, let alone she can switch between them. They also don't share a whole lot in common between each other than the basics of the aura or targeter. It would make more sense for them to be under Chroma's current conditions than Chroma is but yes it would dilute her gameplay. With that Chroma functions pretty much the same in all forms because 3 of this abilities do exactly the same thing in each of them; even then the Wards themselves aren't incredibly different (it is almost as if it is a passive you actively have to manage!?). Chroma feels diluted RIGHT NOW because of the same reason you think Equinox would be diluted... Forced separation of a skill set that should be together. But still, Chroma needs more work in his other powers as well unlike Equinox even if we did separate her forms.

I can understand your desire to just buff up his forms but only in so far that it is just that... your desire. Even then a swap doesn't preclude fixing anything else on Chroma. At this point it will take work either way on DE's end but it is up to DE to decide on they would want to tackle the issue (and right now it is not at all). However if "dilution" was a problem you wanted to fix I can guarantee you that you won't accomplish it by just making his walls bigger rather than making the all flow together.

And for emphasis I'll just put my thoughts from the post above you to express how silly it is that Chroma functions like he does (at least for me):

 

ok so is it wrong for me to like the overal mechanic of chroma's color abilities and  the refusal of accepting a elemental swap because i would like each element to stand out on their own? 

anyways i would rather have an outside mechanic allow chroma to change color in a mission. like i don't know maybe building a kit thing that allows you to switch between builds and appearance. but then again i am just being me that is trying to find reasons to keep his overall mechanic because i love it.

then again fine if everyone else wants a dam elemental swap, do what ever you want i don't care, just get rid of effigy as that ability is useless. its only worth a credit booster anyway. and the just rename him since color doesn't have a dictation on elemental choice and just call him equinox 2 or what not. also while we are at it just get rid of vex armor, eiffigy and vex armor is just as or more silly then the energy color=element mechanic, you just sitting there and doing nothing while the mobs pound on you in order to get a full vex armor, and effigy is about as useful as a full cc frame or a full support frame since we have plenty of frames with at least one ability that benefits the whole group.

anyways i have said my points against elemental swap. i am just not going to repeat them any more. i don't care if anyone couldn't see them.

Edited October 8, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[maddragonmaster]

anyways let me lay this out to point out that you don't have to have access to all elements at once to be considered a element master. way to be considered an elemental master is to properly utilize the element to its maximum effect, not to swap elements on demand. so if anything chroma needs is to use his giving element to its fullest extent rather then have direct access to the elements in a mission. besides i would love it if chroma can keep as much of his traits as possible. even the ones i have a dislike for. namely vex armor and effigy.

[waynexx]

Chroma probably isn't getting a rework.

Edited October 8, 2018 by waynexx

[ZodiacShinryu]

6 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

ok so is it wrong for me to like the overal mechanic of chroma's color abilities and  the refusal of accepting a elemental swap because i would like each element to stand out on their own? 

anyways i would rather have an outside mechanic allow chroma to change color in a mission. like i don't know maybe building a kit thing that allows you to switch between builds and appearance. but then again i am just being me that is trying to find reasons to keep his overall mechanic because i love it.

I don't care that you prefer the existing set up and I wouldn't normally argue with you on that point if that is how you would express it. Where I will come in is when people make platforms out of hyperbole and misinformation. Like "Chroma's name" is not a point strong enough to defend your goal because it can be made to work with a Swap. Equinox is not going to support your argument because not only is she a different frame (an ideal more perfected version of Chroma's mechanics imo) but her ability to swap is no more arbitrary than it would be on Chroma depending on who you talk to. Vauban is a mischaracterization because his problems stem outside Minelayer's mechanics. When Minelayer was actually added Vauban was much more popular because everyone still absolutely hated Limbo for Stasis (that has calmed down a lot since the change) and content where he was more readily needed and useful (Trials) were still around; let alone we have only become that more lethal since then.

Its fine to like Chroma be as he is (as far as elemental alignment goes) but if you don't want me to argue directly against it I suggest you look for a platform that is a bit more sturdy. Wanting the elements to "stand out" is great even though I think realistically that likely wont happen because then DE is just designing four different frames for the price of one. Now I know you talked about a gear wheel option (though personally that is just clutter in another place) but that is just another swap mechanism indirectly and if your worries that adding a swap would prompt DE to not address Ward how you would like them to then, why would they address it at all if the swap mechanic is just a loop hole somewhere else? The end result is that he can still swap.

6 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

then again fine if everyone else wants a dam elemental swap, do what ever you want i don't care, just get rid of effigy as that ability is useless. its only worth a credit booster anyway. and the just rename him since color doesn't have a dictation on elemental choice and just call him equinox 2 or what not. also while we are at it just get rid of vex armor, eiffigy and vex armor is just as or more silly then the energy color=element mechanic, you just sitting there and doing nothing while the mobs pound on you in order to get a full vex armor, and effigy is about as useful as a full cc frame or a full support frame since we have plenty of frames with at least one ability that benefits the whole group.

You see, this is all hyperbole. My suggestion is that you stop worrying about arguing against a swap and focus more on fleshing out your ideals on what you exactly want from a element locked Chroma form. To make them into the forms you want to stand out. But yes Vex is silly. It goes against the general objective of the game and people really only accept it (and therefore Chroma) because we exploit it with self damage to make it reliable. If DE took away self-damage and changed nothing else, Chroma's use would plummet (especially for Eidolons) because he is in that precarious of states.

1 hour ago, maddragonmaster said:

anyways let me lay this out to point out that you don't have to have access to all elements at once to be considered a element master. way to be considered an elemental master is to properly utilize the element to its maximum effect, not to swap elements on demand. so if anything chroma needs is to use his giving element to its fullest extent rather then have direct access to the elements in a mission. besides i would love it if chroma can keep as much of his traits as possible. even the ones i have a dislike for. namely vex armor and effigy.

Depends on the point of view. To be a "master of an element"? Sure, utilizing an element to its fullest would be enough but I suppose my issue comes in that we already have element masters: Ember, Frost, Volt, and Saryn. There isn't a particular need for more specialized masters but a role we don't currently have in the game is a master that can move between them. That is where "Elemental Master" (or Master of the Elements) comes in. I wouldn't call Frost an Elemental Master because "elemental" in itself implies more when he can just default to "Cold Master". Just for frame identity and variety, Chroma fulfilling this role would make more sense on a timescale that doesn't just make him an user of an element.

Again, I think I would be more productive of your time detailing exactly what you want out of your ideal elemental forms rather than simply reject swapping.

[ZodiacShinryu]

12 hours ago, RoronoaAngleo said:

This could be his new passive then

"X" percentage of chance for status effect to not apply or proc and the nerf for this could be the same mechanic for selecting chromas element now

De will have to decide on the. X

Possible though realistically probably a very poor passive. The number of situations we run into elemental status procs from enemies is already pretty slim. It would make Toxin the best option followed by Heat. Generally since Toxin and Heat are also affected by armor (unlike Slash) Vex usually makes them non-lethal to start with. We already don't care about Cold and Elec. Then there is also this nifty mod precept for Wyrm that "Negates" all status procs types once every 5 seconds. It just doesn't particularly add anything to his kit.

[maddragonmaster]

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I don't care that you prefer the existing set up and I wouldn't normally argue with you on that point if that is how you would express it. Where I will come in is when people make platforms out of hyperbole and misinformation. Like "Chroma's name" is not a point strong enough to defend your goal because it can be made to work with a Swap. Equinox is not going to support your argument because not only is she a different frame (an ideal more perfected version of Chroma's mechanics imo) but her ability to swap is no more arbitrary than it would be on Chroma depending on who you talk to. Vauban is a mischaracterization because his problems stem outside Minelayer's mechanics. When Minelayer was actually added Vauban was much more popular because everyone still absolutely hated Limbo for Stasis (that has calmed down a lot since the change) and content where he was more readily needed and useful (Trials) were still around; let alone we have only become that more lethal since then.

Its fine to like Chroma be as he is (as far as elemental alignment goes) but if you don't want me to argue directly against it I suggest you look for a platform that is a bit more sturdy. Wanting the elements to "stand out" is great even though I think realistically that likely wont happen because then DE is just designing four different frames for the price of one. Now I know you talked about a gear wheel option (though personally that is just clutter in another place) but that is just another swap mechanism indirectly and if your worries that adding a swap would prompt DE to not address Ward how you would like them to then, why would they address it at all if the swap mechanic is just a loop hole somewhere else? The end result is that he can still swap.

You see, this is all hyperbole. My suggestion is that you stop worrying about arguing against a swap and focus more on fleshing out your ideals on what you exactly want from a element locked Chroma form. To make them into the forms you want to stand out. But yes Vex is silly. It goes against the general objective of the game and people really only accept it (and therefore Chroma) because we exploit it with self damage to make it reliable. If DE took away self-damage and changed nothing else, Chroma's use would plummet (especially for Eidolons) because he is in that precarious of states.

Depends on the point of view. To be a "master of an element"? Sure, utilizing an element to its fullest would be enough but I suppose my issue comes in that we already have element masters: Ember, Frost, Volt, and Saryn. There isn't a particular need for more specialized masters but a role we don't currently have in the game is a master that can move between them. That is where "Elemental Master" (or Master of the Elements) comes in. I wouldn't call Frost an Elemental Master because "elemental" in itself implies more when he can just default to "Cold Master". Just for frame identity and variety, Chroma fulfilling this role would make more sense on a timescale that doesn't just make him an user of an element.

Again, I think I would be more productive of your time detailing exactly what you want out of your ideal elemental forms rather than simply reject swapping.

far point. it doesn't really help that the mods threw us all into one big thread. and i am pretty sure i am just being ridiculous for arguing about elemental swapping but i tend to have an issue with something when i feel like something is being forced on me, and well i have my doubts that DE will make another male frame with a dragon theme so there's at least some of my... well i am not sure what it is anger, frustration, anxiety i just really don't know.  

anyways i had some nice ideas. one of them included a giving chroma an additional customization option like how octavia has the mandicord but for chroma it would involve you having the ability to tweak which colors trigger which element.  though i have found a energy color that just has  enough yellow to still be fire while almost looking white'ish. pretty sure there might be a yellow green that might be have a chance of being fire.

 but if an elemental swap was found necessary i would like the elemental cycle be attached to elemental ward or a form of elemental ward as i have a little bit of worry that attaching the elemental swapping to spectral scream may add complications with using the ability.  maybe add it to elemental ward. but on a interesting note i thought of giving chroma a interaction mechanic with the gear wheel since we are getting possibly bottomless gear wheel, originally  i was suggesting of throwing effigy into the gear wheel as a chroma only interaction for the gear wheel, maybe there could be a way of adding a the ability to choose elements in the gear wheel. 

on a side note i kind of wish chroma had something like how limbo has the "Shift button allows you to slide into the rift" mechanic and i had some thoughts about chroma having something like that but it involves bullet jumps. double jumps, and aim gliding for chroma, or this could be a intresting mechanic for zypher if you want it to be so but i feel a bit jealous that the zypher and titania are the only frames with a flying mechanic.... does wukong have  a mechanic where he kind of flies? not sure haven't played him and frankle forgot what he does. wish our magnificent great big dragon boy could either fly with the effective of a rhino with an out of control jetpack or just have him fall with style.

Edited October 8, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[ZodiacShinryu]

1 hour ago, maddragonmaster said:

anyways i had some nice ideas. one of them included a giving chroma an additional customization option like how octavia has the mandicord but for chroma it would involve you having the ability to tweak which colors trigger which element.  though i have found a energy color that just has  enough yellow to still be fire while almost looking white'ish. pretty sure there might be a yellow green that might be have a chance of being fire.

I guess I would need you to flesh it out more but it sounds like a sort of color mixer function to play around with hues a little. It is neat in concept being that I hate some of the saturation colored issues when I choose colors though my particular problem follows that my favorite color is blue. I also like more theme fitting color choices. But as far as I know I can't have a blue-ish (blue flames) Heat Chroma which currently is ideal. Though I also couldn't have a Blue-ish Cold Chroma as a fall back on (there might be a few too dark or too white blues that are also to saturated they may as well be white or black). Most all the Blues will put me in Elec though there is an ungodly saturated blue-ish green that gives Toxin (which I have used for Eidolon hunts from time to time) So I share your desire to lift up Elec and Toxin but even then depending on what they would be made out to be I might not like the playstyle birthed of those forms.

So honestly finding a way to move away from picking energy color, swap or not, would be more preferable. Like making your energy color added flair if people really want to keep the color theme. At least I also like red.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

but if an elemental swap was found necessary i would like the elemental cycle be attached to elemental ward or a form of elemental ward as i have a little bit of worry that attaching the elemental swapping to spectral scream may add complications with using the ability.  maybe add it to elemental ward. but on a interesting note i thought of giving chroma a interaction mechanic with the gear wheel since we are getting possibly bottomless gear wheel, originally  i was suggesting of throwing effigy into the gear wheel as a chroma only interaction for the gear wheel, maybe there could be a way of adding a the ability to choose elements in the gear wheel. 

I mean that's fine. They can attach it to whatever they want. Though honestly it'll just be clutter anywhere. Though emotes also could be made into candidates that have a special effect on Chroma. That being said my preferred lay-out would be just putting it on a HOLD for each power (like 1-Heat, 2-Cold, 3-Elec, 4-Toxin) that way you have direct access to each that doesn't get in the way of normal power usage. Unless you of course have greater ambitions for hold to charge abilities on his 1 and 4 (I personally don't).

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

on a side note i kind of wish chroma had something like how limbo has the "Shift button allows you to slide into the rift" mechanic and i had some thoughts about chroma having something like that but it involves bullet jumps. double jumps, and aim gliding for chroma

It works for Limbo because he is a dichotomy. He also has better control of the environment he is moving into though it still takes some redefined control of muscle memory. Otherwise most people would be against tying it to our mobility tools because you'd get some unreliable results as you move around and evade as you need to. Chroma with 4 forms would make it messy. Someone else had similar idea with Chroma's powers creating "distortions" that could temporarily shift Chroma's alignment which sound neat. Though ultimately from what was explained I worried that it might just clutter up the map for Chroma or get in the way again though it would be better if everything was fleshed out more. The best control come only if it is directly chosen by Chroma through his powers or maybe the gear/emote wheel.

But I have entertained the thought of his Passive being more utility based by making use of his wings for extra mobility while doing maneuvers like triple jump, bullet jump hovering and aim glide control. But at the same time I rather it be more practical if I had a choice. That being said at this point Ward and Vex should just be mashed together and a new 2 (or 3; maybe even move Effigy down and make it 4) be made then DE can do whatever they want. Personally I would like a more 'small' AoE "nuke" like damage ability that's quicker than Spectral though a more idealized draconic form (with use of his wings on his actual body) wouldn't be dismissed.

[maddragonmaster]

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

guess I would need you to flesh it out more but it sounds like a sort of color mixer function to play around with hues a little. It is neat in concept being that I hate some of the saturation colored issues when I choose colors though my particular problem follows that my favorite color is blue. I also like more theme fitting color choices. But as far as I know I can't have a blue-ish (blue flames) Heat Chroma which currently is ideal. Though I also couldn't have a Blue-ish Cold Chroma as a fall back on (there might be a few too dark or too white blues that are also to saturated they may as well be white or black). Most all the Blues will put me in Elec though there is an ungodly saturated blue-ish green that gives Toxin (which I have used for Eidolon hunts from time to time) So I share your desire to lift up Elec and Toxin but even then depending on what they would be made out to be I might not like the playstyle birthed of those forms.

So honestly finding a way to move away from picking energy color, swap or not, would be more preferable. Like making your energy color added flair if people really want to keep the color theme. At least I also like red.

gladly and i will try to explain in it to the best of my abilities, in sort i imagine it like this:

fire              electric          ice           toxin before

red             blue              white            green

yellow        purple    black      yellow green

 

after fire     electric      ice          toxin

     green   red                purple        orange

blue          yellow          pink        white

ok this might sound complicated but the idea is to have some form of ui maybe have it show a prismatic wing of chroma in the background and then have the four elements labeled there and have colors listed under those said elements so lest say you want heat to be effected by blue swap blue which is normally in electric with red or yellow then bam you got the ability of having blue energy colors triggering the heat element while keeping the color theme mechanic of chroma. sorry if this explanation is a mess.

[ZodiacShinryu]

9 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

ok this might sound complicated but the idea is to have some form of ui maybe have it show a prismatic wing of chroma in the background and then have the four elements labeled there and have colors listed under those said elements so lest say you want heat to be effected by blue swap blue which is normally in electric with red or yellow then bam you got the ability of having blue energy colors triggering the heat element while keeping the color theme mechanic of chroma. sorry if this explanation is a mess.

I suppose it is kind of complicated. Maybe it is just unclear because I suppose I am not seeing the underline process of the shift like you envision it. I see it as just moving the color designations for a given element. Depending on the limitations it is it might just be simpler to add an extra UI option for Chroma to pick an element and not tie it to color anymore. Though perhaps it would be more useful if DE decided to add a new ability that gives Chroma access to the combined elements in some way. Then it could be used to help move around the combinations.

[maddragonmaster]

45 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I suppose it is kind of complicated. Maybe it is just unclear because I suppose I am not seeing the underline process of the shift like you envision it. I see it as just moving the color designations for a given element. Depending on the limitations it is it might just be simpler to add an extra UI option for Chroma to pick an element and not tie it to color anymore. Though perhaps it would be more useful if DE decided to add a new ability that gives Chroma access to the combined elements in some way. Then it could be used to help move around the combinations.

yes. but the main issue that is just a point out here  not me arguing against elemental swapping again. but if they loose the color effect for chroma then basically is not chroma because as we know chroma or chromatic stands for color and and since it is chroma was sold as this frame that was master of the elements which are dictated by his energy color as the codex says, and when you watch the video which heavily applies that the energy color dictates the element in use. and if this was changed to ignore energy color then DE could get in trouble with false advertisement. 

while he is not a master of the elements in a sense that he can utilize them all in a mission he can still be a master of elements in that he can utilize each of them to their fullest in a giving mission without switching between them and he just needs a few improvements to achive that. while his energy color mechanic is still prominent in the way he is sold.

so in a sense the energy color = element type is kind of stuck on chroma. though an elemental swapping effect could be possible. but you just can't get rid of something that in sense is one of the core mechanics to him. 

so giving us the ability to move the color designations for a giving element is one of the best choices DE could do without going out of bounds with choma's intentional design.

ps was thinking about energy color of accessories could be a way of allowing combined elements, but then again we would end up having fashion frame players complaining about that. ps you don't have to have a accessory equped in order for this idea to work. or have the colors of sigils colors determine the second component to the element combination. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[ZodiacShinryu]

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

yes. but the main issue that is just a point out here  not me arguing against elemental swapping again. but if they loose the color effect for chroma then basically is not chroma because as we know chroma or chromatic stands for color and and since it is chroma was sold as this frame that was master of the elements which are dictated by his energy color as the codex says, and when you watch the video which heavily applies that the energy color dictates the element in use. and if this was changed to ignore energy color then DE could get in trouble with false advertisement. 

If that was all it took for false advertisements to get people in trouble the world would come to a stop. I mean you can just talk to all the people that have issues with Revenant or the "Ninjas play for free" slogan. False Advertisement claims require proof that people were 'intentional' misled. Missed expectations are not false advertisements. Else perhaps I should raise the flag with the term "Master of Elements" that he has never met in any way shape or form. With that if color is such a sticking point, his form can be related to color in some way even if it isn't the same way now.

I see what you're saying but it is simply semantics, in part because he can't swap right now where a color change would make a difference. If his power depends on color but you get to pick the power corresponding to the color then get to pick the color, you just made a round about design that doesn't actually have anything to do with color. If you take a step back you created a process that takes more time and effort than the functional outcome of just picking an element with no real benefit for it. Just for a cost management business point of view, there is no reason put resources into that.

In fact your idea would far better support a more customizable system for a swapping mechanic as far as fashion frame goes. It could be used to set up the colors for your swap so that you can have full custom colors on every form for the swap. Though personally it would still be simpler to just add a flair color (secondary color) to the animations and just pick the element beforehand (which has a set base color), swap or not.

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

while he is not a master of the elements in a sense that he can utilize them all in a mission he can still be a master of elements in that he can utilize each of them to their fullest in a giving mission without switching between them and he just needs a few improvements to achive that. while his energy color mechanic is still prominent in the way he is sold.

What is considered "fullest" is a subjective opinion. Honestly not even the four current element masters use their elements to the fullest. Volt is probably the closest but still short of. Saryn use to be pretty great until toxin spread was removed. While Chroma is far below them all in any regards to elemental usage. And I don't even know where to begin in fixing that mess. Not even getting his 1 and 4 functional makes him any better than the other four let alone anyone that uses certain mod loadouts or Khora's signature pistol. He needs quite a bit more than a few improvements.

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

without going out of bounds with choma's intentional design.

I'd be careful with assuming what is "intentional design". Chroma was released like 5 years ago. What was possible then most certainly is different than what is possible now. What if they wanted Chroma to swap then but the tech just wasn't there and ready for 4 versions and this was just their next best option at the time. It took them 3 years to fix the improper calculations that they knew existed when they set him up. Its not like they get around to changes very quickly after some time passes. Without DE's input, what is intentional is unknown.

[maddragonmaster]

8 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

If that was all it took for false advertisements to get people in trouble the world would come to a stop. I mean you can just talk to all the people that have issues with Revenant or the "Ninjas play for free" slogan. False Advertisement claims require proof that people were 'intentional' misled. Missed expectations are not false advertisements. Else perhaps I should raise the flag with the term "Master of Elements" that he has never met in any way shape or form. With that if color is such a sticking point, his form can be related to color in some way even if it isn't the same way now.

I see what you're saying but it is simply semantics, in part because he can't swap right now where a color change would make a difference. If his power depends on color but you get to pick the power corresponding to the color then get to pick the color, you just made a round about design that doesn't actually have anything to do with color. If you take a step back you created a process that takes more time and effort than the functional outcome of just picking an element with no real benefit for it. Just for a cost management business point of view, there is no reason put resources into that.

In fact your idea would far better support a more customizable system for a swapping mechanic as far as fashion frame goes. It could be used to set up the colors for your swap so that you can have full custom colors on every form for the swap. Though personally it would still be simpler to just add a flair color (secondary color) to the animations and just pick the element beforehand (which has a set base color), swap or not.

What is considered "fullest" is a subjective opinion. Honestly not even the four current element masters use their elements to the fullest. Volt is probably the closest but still short of. Saryn use to be pretty great until toxin spread was removed. While Chroma is far below them all in any regards to elemental usage. And I don't even know where to begin in fixing that mess. Not even getting his 1 and 4 functional makes him any better than the other four let alone anyone that uses certain mod loadouts or Khora's signature pistol. He needs quite a bit more than a few improvements.

I'd be careful with assuming what is "intentional design". Chroma was released like 5 years ago. What was possible then most certainly is different than what is possible now. What if they wanted Chroma to swap then but the tech just wasn't there and ready for 4 versions and this was just their next best option at the time. It took them 3 years to fix the improper calculations that they knew existed when they set him up. Its not like they get around to changes very quickly after some time passes. Without DE's input, what is intentional is unknown.

excuse me but didn't you see the "not me argue about elemental swapping again"?  because i was arguing about the need of keeping the color gimmick because if it goes then whats stopping them from doing something  that ends up make a frame out of character? i am trying to make a round about way to save the overall theme of chroma as a whole while keeping the fahsion framers from bleeping while having that chance at elemental swapping yet you are trying to argue with me over it? this is why i hated elemental swapping in the first place, were i wanted something about chroma kept yet someone reacts negatively when i say i wanted to keep it.

Edited October 9, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[Razorv2]

I finally managed to complete chroma prime farm and I feel bad for this warframe again because how outdated some of his abilities,is makes me sad. Chroma could use some rework-changes so I will leave my idea but feedback first, First ability is joke. Second and third fells like same thing because they are passive buffs that needs to be activated, and effgy is kinda dissapointing. Also passive is weak. Change energy colors for different elements? I know every single warframe does not need a good one but we could tweak this one and make it good passive. 

Starting with passive, Im going to say what most people says; Chroma can now change his element in mission by using roll action. Roll forward to get ice, backwards for cold, left is toxin, right is electricity.

For first ability, lets make it aoe with 12m range and procs current element on all of enemies inside area. No channeling. Also spectral scream now has passive that gives 25% additional element dmg for 10 seconds to melee weapons(element dmg is his current element). 

Lets merge his current 2nd ability with 3rd ability into single one: Vex armor as second ability.

Third ability is wing wave: Chroma waves his wings based on direction that chosen while holding one of w or s keys and pressing 3rd ability. Holding W moves enemies away from chroma, S pulls enemies towards chroma. 12m range.

Effgy; Pretty much same except instead of screaming, effgy will shoot elemental balls with %50 status chance. Effgy will follow chroma and. mimic spectral scream. 

If you read this, leave your opinion. Maybe devs will see this and make some changes when they done with current projects. 

[Kalvorax]

15 minutes ago, Razorv2 said:

Chroma can now change his element in mission by using roll action. Roll forward to get ice, backwards for cold, left is toxin, right is electricity. 

yeah.....no

Dodging is VITAL for not dying...having element change bound to roll direction......is horrible at best....many people have wanted one of his abilities to be a cycle like ivara's quiver and vauban's minelayer...which makes FAR more sense.

 

18 minutes ago, Razorv2 said:

Third ability is wing wave: Chroma waves his wings based on direction that chosen while holding one of w or s keys and pressing 3rd ability. Holding W moves enemies away from chroma, S pulls enemies towards chroma. 12m range.

interesting...but again, movement bound abilities just do not work well with warframe....it has for melee....but that will be changed soon.

 

[Razorv2]

47 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

yeah.....no

Dodging is VITAL for not dying...having element change bound to roll direction......is horrible at best....many people have wanted one of his abilities to be a cycle like ivara's quiver and vauban's minelayer...which makes FAR more sense.

well I made like this to make gameplay fluid. Ivara's quiver feels awkward inside chaos. But I agree, dodge is very important, thats why I made it to directional, if you roll always forward, you will reman in ice element. Also I made my rework to synergize with melee combat for future melee 3.0 .

[Battle_Mage]

Someone suggested this a bit ago and after some thought I think it's spot on: I think the fix for Spectral Scream is rather simple: more ticks per second. That'd bump up the DPS and status chances to acceptable levels. One tick per second is much too slow for the pace of the game.  Perhaps a change in the equation for calculating range would be warranted, too.

Personally, I'd like to see different delivery types (beam vs. cone etc.) for the different elements as well, but that's another fish to fry.

[Conflux59]

2 hours ago, Battle_Mage said:

Someone suggested this a bit ago and after some thought I think it's spot on: I think the fix for Spectral Scream is rather simple: more ticks per second. That'd bump up the DPS and status chances to acceptable levels. One tick per second is much too slow for the pace of the game.  Perhaps a change in the equation for calculating range would be warranted, too.

Personally, I'd like to see different delivery types (beam vs. cone etc.) for the different elements as well, but that's another fish to fry.

This^

And that *ticks per second* would take them 5 minutes to change.  It's not asking for much, in fact it's like asking for the table scraps after everyone else has eaten the good stuff, but it would help keep us alive and allow the move to do more than clean up enemies level 30 and below with Vex armor up.

Beam/cone/fan/acid rain etc etc would be awesome imo.

Is it just me that would appreciate when there's a push for something that ends up being 44+ pages... DE would pop in and say ...  o/  hey all, we appreciate your passion and love for Chroma, we're busy with X Y and Z right now but fear not, changes will come.  or.. something along those lines.

or does it need to reach like 100 pages or something to be considered a legit outcry?