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Aleksi134

Chroma needs a rework

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Seems like a mistake to me considering chroma's 4 is really lacking in any kind of useful use in missions also his 1st is useless and 3rd could use a armor buff. Im not going to start designing a ability here as this post is just to talk about the fact that there are no changes revelead during devstream for chroma at all.

1st ability needs an overhaul to anything else thats actually useful.

2nd ability is fine as is.

3rd ability could use armor buff simply since it got nerfed majorly from the error that was present since chroma's release, chroma does not feel anywhere near as powerful as he should

4th ability needs a major buff or a rework aswell in some way.

Also alot of great suggestions on posts made here.

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Agreed. It's a shame and missed opportunity. Currently, his best use is for Eidolon hunting (which gets boring eventually) but even in Eidolon hunting he isn't really needed or much better for damage than a Rhino or Volt with Madurai. It would be easy to fix Chroma and it makes DE seem lazy or they're ignoring the community request.

Allow his 1 to switch elements.

Allow his 2 to switch elements independent from his 1. Having a different element from his 1 would turn Spectral Scream into an elemental combo. For example, if you choose cold for SS and heat for EW then SS would turn into Blast dmg.

Buff the % of his 3 a little bit.

Make the 4 augment part of the ability. Make a new augment allowing Chroma to keep his pelt, hover around while the player can control which attacks he uses. It would be like his current augment that flies around where you point but instead you stay in the pelt.

 

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59 minutes ago, Aleksi134 said:

2nd ability is fine as is.

Parts of this ability is fine. I think Electric and Toxin forms need to be buffed/changed

He also needs an actual passive

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I'm trying and hoping to calm down and wait.... Surely they don't think that the prime stats are all that he needs to be in a great spot......

 

On a more positive note Effigy looks amazing.

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Yeah, when I saw the codex leak I immediately noticed the description of Effigy saying that it "strengthens nearby allies" and thought that was an upcoming tweak because that's not something Effigy has ever done.

Nope. Turns out the description is old, and has just been wrong this entire time. I never noticed because I don't play Chroma much. Not sure when it happened. Maybe when they made Vex Armor affect allies, they put that note in the wrong description?

idk... but Chroma needs some work.

Spectral Scream is counterproductive (you'd be better off using no powers at all than trying to use it, unless you just REALLY need that particular status effect for some reason)

Effigy costs too much for what it does, and does too little for an ultimate. Aannnd the augment should be part of the base ability.

And he needs a passive. And I'd really like him to be able to change elements mid-mission so that he can actually be slightly versatile and adaptable as he was described to be. IMO the only reason he can't do this is because he was introduced before they invented the selection mechanic used for Quiver and Minelayer.

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1 hour ago, AgentSkye said:

Nope. Turns out the description is old, and has just been wrong this entire time. I never noticed because I don't play Chroma much. Not sure when it happened. Maybe when they made Vex Armor affect allies, they put that note in the wrong description?

Sadly it was there all the time Chroma has been released

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3 minutes ago, Dark_Chroma said:

Sadly it was there all the time Chroma has been released

Wow... I had no idea. How did they miss that during the last tweak pass they did for Chroma?

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Any little bit would help make Chroma Prime's launch more anticipated.

Seeing as Chroma is largely viewed as tanky weapons platform, his biggest issue is his 1 interfering with guns and melee. It might be best to remove the toggle mechanic as was done with Nezha's 1 and change it to a burst AoE with a high status chance. I'm not sure if this would look something like Phantasma's alt fire or simply a wide forward arc throwing electric/heat/cold/toxin damage and status on enemies.

The other big thing I believe players want is element switching, which to be honest I'd just steal the switching mechanic from Quiver and Minelayer and call it done (not that it's necessarily a simple matter for DE).

Of course this would mean a new passive, and his 4 could use work too, but I think simple, functional improvements for those would be fine.

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chroma 1 been a joke for a long time but i never use it so personally to me it doesnt matter if they change it or not

his 2 yea yur right it feels fine i never had an issue with it

his 3 ok here is where ppl might feel controversial since i think its needs a change up (im not talking about the damage aspect im only talking about the tank aspect) since being forced to tank(where other tanks arent really forced to tank) if u want his dmg buff that is, well the tanking aspect doesnt seem fair and imo i think need some kind of invincibility. revenant can completely block out damage, nezha now can absorb damage to increase his halo shield, valkyr stays invincible, nidus has stacks to stop fatal damage, wukong is unkillable (i kno he isnt great right now im only explaining the tanking mechanics) so im pretty sure they can change his tanking mechanic for something better than just more armor.

now effigy yea there isnt much synergy with his abilities when it comes to this ability. tbh the only thing i could think of that will help chroma get synergy from effigy and his tanking problem is make it so effigy is able to activate vex armor upon being damaged. maybe it could use more of a buff but atleast if we had this then he isnt forced to tank (endurance runners no longer worry about getting one shot just to gain a dmg boost), effigy becomes more use able along wit the augment, and it wont really change his kit or playstyle so ppl wont complain as much.

who knows what DE is gonna do tho but i hope they take a look at him before his prime release atleast.

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So I tuned in to the dev stream with the hope of hearing about fixes and adjustments to make Chroma actually worth using outside of eidolons and be of value. Yet there was nothing. Not even a passing thought about his horrible state.

Do you remember when syndicates came out? The grind was so awful that people started running greedy pull mag, radial jav excal, and EV trin. Instead of buffing the rate at which you gained standing, you nerfed mag's pull to only affect his items and excal. Remember how terrible the feedback was? How much of a knee-jerk reaction that you made? You even said and would continue to say that you would not nerf a frame just because of 1 game mode. Well you did it with Chroma and you have done nothing to fix your mistake.

If you recall, in the notes you claimed that the vex armor buff was not being calculated as it should be from years ago, but you left it be because there was no reason to fix it. However that is a simple fix that just involves changing when the buff is applied, it would be akin to changing (x+y)*z to (x*z)+y. After all, all Chroma had was damage and bulk. What you did not say was that the ACTUAL bug that allowed such absurd damage was that vex armor was being applied to each stat for dual elements like radiation (weapons with dual stat eles hit way harder than they should have). Then eidolons came out, and you were so mad that what you thought would be a replacement for raids in terms of difficulty and tried to pass off as end game was trivial at best. Your quote from the notes...

" At its simplest, we do not want our Eidolons one-shotted ".

So just like with mag and excal, you nerfed a frame just because of 1 new aspect. Now outside of eidolons, Chroma is not even a shadow of his past self. However unlike the past, instead of addressing your mistakes and taking appropriate action, you did nothing. The funny part, eidolons can STILL BE ONE SHOTTED. So all you really did was make Chroma objectively worse in every other mission other than eidolons.

Chroma is in a terrible spot right now and is only worth using against eidolons. That is pretty much 100% indisputable.

Here are a few issues that need to be addressed and talked about.

1. His one is trash. Plain and simple. Locking you out of your weapons for pitiful damage even with max power strength. It needs to be completely rehauled.

2. His 4 is out of place. What is the purpose of it? What does it do that makes people want to use it? Well for tank Chroma and current Chroma, it did nothing as it was terribly expensive to use, made you squishier for minor speed buff, and just acted as a form of short range CC. For credit chroma, it was a credit farming tool. It doesn't fit his identity or give enough incentive to use.

3. The biggest issue IMO, the nerf made chroma a "I need everything except sprint speed unless I want to get drunk on energy pizzas" war frame. The change to vex armor and trying to shove him out of the "tank" role to a "buff" role made building chroma an absolute nightmare. Before the nerf, Chroma needed HP, armor, power strength, and duration. That's it. So this allowed Chroma to take incredibly high duration and power strength while sacrificing eff and range. The high duration would allow chroma the time to regen enough energy to make up for it. His 1 was still awful so no one used it and his 4 was only good for credit farming. So unless you were credit farming, the build was designed to make chroma as tanky as possible. You would also use vigor/p vigor to get over 400 shields so that when your vex armor ran out, you could let your shield come back, activate it again, and get the max armor bonus before the enemy could start hitting your HP. A fairly expensive build for just being able to tank crazy amounts of damage.

After the nerf? The change in the vex armor calc made a max rank steel fiber worth about 25% power strength. So a chroma with just steel fiber and a maxed vex armor would be about as tanky as a chroma with just augur secrets and a maxed vex armor. Armor became literally worthless on Chroma compared to power strength. You can go check out the actual calcs and see for yourself if you don't believe me. Along with that, DE made vex armor a repeatable ability that could be shared. This made range a stat that you could not sacrifice due to low base value so you had to give up a mod (usually narrow minded) to keep the ability worth while for eidolons. That in turn required you to cast your vex armor much more frequently which would prove to be incredibly difficult to keep up if you sacrificed your eff for more power strength. Here we get to the huge problem that DE made for Chroma because of their precious "end game eidolons". You need A LOT of power strength to be decently tanky, you need range to make your vex buff reliable to give to other allies, you need duration because you have to take shield/health damage to get the buff, you need eff because you don't have the energy pool or reliable energy regen (unless you eat pizzas like no tomorrow) to maintain keeping vex armor up constantly. So basically, DE made chroma need almost every stat there is except for sprint speed. Chroma went from a "tank that deals massive damage" to a frame that doesn't know what he is or wants.

 

DE, why have you remained silent about what you did to Chroma and are almost refusing to even look his way? The only times I ever see Chroma in something that isn't eidolons is when either I or my clan mate, both of us started as Chroma mains, play him. I just want to hear why you, DE, are so afraid to correct your knee-jerk reaction to eidolons being far easier than you wanted and taking it out on Chroma.

 

Though I don't think we will hear DE talk about Chroma changes, so how can he be fixed so that he is actually worth using and is fun to play in places besides eidolon hunts? I have a few ideas since DE seems to think there is absolutely nothing wrong with chroma. I'm just throwing ideas out here because I don't want to feel completely outclassed in every way when I play something not eidolons so don't look that deep into them.

Make his 1 more like the effigy roar would be a far better option. A quick tap will change chroma's element type and a press and hold could charge up a circular roar that stuns enemies, deals damage, and gives them a status proc. Range and damage would scale based on the charge time up to a cap. Go even further by giving it an additional affect based on what element type per enemy hit. When you are fire it heals you, ice gives you energy, electric regens shields, and poison leaves gas clouds.

REMOVE the "if you are near me and stay near me you will get this buff" mechanic on elemental ward. Replace it with the passive much like the above where every time elemental war procs it's effect, it gives the same effects as the modified 1 ability. Fire procs regen hp, ice bounces give energy, etc etc.

Revert the calculation changes to vex armor and remove it from being an AoE buff. If the damage is still too high then only change the damage portion and not armor. Maybe change it so you lose the buff over time instead of instantly? Again just throwing ideas out there.

The last thing I would do to wrap it all together is a functionality change to effigy. Start off with making the range set (as in not affected by mods), remove the "stagnant turret" function and replace it with it following Chroma (think like a sentinel). While using this ability, Chroma will share his buffs from his other abilities to allies within range and effigy does it's normal effigy thing.

The idea behind these changes is to bring back the old tank chroma, make him a complete warframe instead of half of one with 2 abilities that look pretty slapped on, provide a use besides "buffing to kill eidolons", make his build much more reasonable, and make chroma more than just a "push 2 buttons on occasion" frame.

 

TLDR: Chroma was nerfed because of eidolons and still feels like an incomplete warframe and now is underwhelming at best outside of eidolons. Why hasn't this been addressed yet?

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Quite the body of text to crawl through here ... quite repetitive too but i believe you drove your point across clearly. So let me start by agreeing with you ... I personally have only ever used Chroma for Eidolon Hunts ... to me he serves no other purpose and his kit supports that statement. Other than his Vex Armor i'd boldly say as you have that he need to be looked at ... i never bothered looking into his lore but i understand what was intended and expected ... it's sadly not what i see in Chroma now. He does need a revisit, but i have faith that DE is looking into it despite the whole "hush hush" revolving around him.

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I think the goal for every warframe is to be able to at least 2 different builds or playstyles that are effective with a frame.

I think chroma was supposed to be able to have 1 build where he can behabe lole a buffer/support frame with some armor while on the other end of the spectrum be able to function as a tank with a more self centered build.

The buffing aspect currently is still underwhelming on top of the limitations that come with chromas kit being they have to dtay 8n range to reveive the benefit.

As a result 'buffer' chroma only made sense for the stationary cryopod defense missions. But the benefits he provided were underwhelming thus everyone used the 'selfish' chroma build.

Nut now the self centered 'tank' chroma build has been gutted to where yoi need to overinvest in power strength for underwhelming results while 'buffer' chroma only exists to be a one trick pony in eidolon hunts.

I was all for a viable 'team buffing' chroma build but DE you took nearly all of the power from his tank build and threw 90% of that power out the w8ndow and only yave the buffing nuild leftover scraps.

He needs a rework that will increae his overall strength that will allow both builds for chroma to be viable.

 

 

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As a Chroma main who doesn't even care about eidolons, I'm still pretty salty about this, and I agree that it felt like a very knee-jerk nerf.  My favorite frame got hit hard because he just so happened to be OP in a gamemode that I hardly ever play, and the nerf didn't even fix the problem in said gamemode.  It feels like all they did was make him worse at everything else while severely limiting the amount of viable builds he has.  The fact that he needs such stupid amounts of strength just to be decent now is silly.  I'm still holding out hope though.  Maybe some day Chroma will have more than 2 abilities that are worth using.  Having a reason to pick the other elements would be nice, too.

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mmh in short, monumentally nerfing Chroma in Damage and EHP but not addressing that everything else about Chroma is basically useless or only constitutes as a small feature rather than a major one that can define what a Warframe does makes for a pretty.... well not great situation.

1 hour ago, AbstractLemons said:

I think the goal for every warframe is to be able to at least 2 different builds or playstyles that are effective with a frame.

hm not in recent years - if you go back a few years then what Warframes would be given then certainly. in 2018 Warframes your Mods are chosen for you and there is no decisions in what Mods you use at all.
so i can't really see diversity as being any sort of goal anymore. 

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1 hour ago, taiiat said:

mmh in short, monumentally nerfing Chroma in Damage and EHP but not addressing that everything else about Chroma is basically useless or only constitutes as a small feature rather than a major one that can define what a Warframe does makes for a pretty.... well not great situation.

He's essentially a worse Rhino at this point and it didn't have to be this way.  Throwing him a bone by allowing him team buffs doesn't really help the situation either.  The range is rather short.  So in a PUG/non-coordinated environment its rather moot to nigh useless, since people don't play close enough to each other for the benefit.  Fitting in anymore range outside of Stretch is also difficult because his build requirements call for a proverbial buttload of power strength.

Putting the elementals on a "buffet wheel" ala Ivara's Quiver, and giving the different elementals more useful buffs, would be a nice start to really fixing him.  Give him a 1 and 4 thats actually worth using too.  And if they really want to do this buffer thing Vex Armor needs a slightly larger AoE. 

Overall he's not a terrible frame.  He's still a solid A-/B+.  He just doesn't bring enough to the table that other frames don't already do and do it better

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This CANNOT happen. He looks amazing and he deserves a wonderful update. He is a buff tank/buffing frame.

 

Passive: Buffs the elemental damage of whatever he's attuned to by 25%. (affects the elemental damage of all abilities and weapons)

 

1. Can cycle through elements by tapping 1 and can channel the scream by holding 1 for a moment. Tap to cancel. Now shoots out in a wider arc. Creates an elemental terrain that has a 100% proc chance. The affected terrain is Duration based.

2. It's fine. Allow it to be a sticky buff for allies for a short but decent duration if they go out of range of it. Warframe is about mobility usually and no one stays close to Chroma to appreciate his buffs. 

3. Buff his tankiness back at least. His "unintended bug" had been in game for too long and then you chose to nerf him because of Eidolons.. He doesn't feel anywhere near as good as he used too. This ability should get the sticky buff treatment too. Nezha is tankier with the various builds and that's sad. Rhino is also better at buffing team damage and being tanky for himself. I shouldn't need an umbra build to be a decent tank. Period.

4. Effigy - Now has an added large Buffing Aura I like to call Dragon's Presence that is not affected by range mods. It's a decent 30 meters. It is Duration based (60 seconds default). The problem with this ability is that you sacrifice survivability for speed. If Vex Armor is active then the radius around Effigy carries it's own Vex Armor with the same reflected stats as Chroma's Vex Armor. It buffs allies with the Vex Armor and stacks/doubles for Chroma himself. It draws aggro much better and still roars and all that good stuff. When you cancel Effigy or if it dies, it self destructs doing the same amount of damage as it was dealt. The damage is affected by Vex Armor and your passive. The element of the explosion is dependent on your attunement.

Dragon Presence effect

Fire - Radial Heal (HPS affected by power strength)

Ice - Slows incoming enemies by 40%

Toxin - Increases Status and Crit chance on ally weapons 40% (affected by Power Strength but caps at 100%) 

Electricity - Shield Regen (Affected by Power strength) 

You need to be in radius to gain the affect of the Effigy. It does not have a sticky affect.

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6 hours ago, ShenRyujin said:

chroma 1 been a joke for a long time but i never use it so personally to me it doesnt matter if they change it or not

his 2 yea yur right it feels fine i never had an issue with it

his 3 ok here is where ppl might feel controversial since i think its needs a change up (im not talking about the damage aspect im only talking about the tank aspect) since being forced to tank(where other tanks arent really forced to tank) if u want his dmg buff that is, well the tanking aspect doesnt seem fair and imo i think need some kind of invincibility. revenant can completely block out damage, nezha now can absorb damage to increase his halo shield, valkyr stays invincible, nidus has stacks to stop fatal damage, wukong is unkillable (i kno he isnt great right now im only explaining the tanking mechanics) so im pretty sure they can change his tanking mechanic for something better than just more armor.

now effigy yea there isnt much synergy with his abilities when it comes to this ability. tbh the only thing i could think of that will help chroma get synergy from effigy and his tanking problem is make it so effigy is able to activate vex armor upon being damaged. maybe it could use more of a buff but atleast if we had this then he isnt forced to tank (endurance runners no longer worry about getting one shot just to gain a dmg boost), effigy becomes more use able along wit the augment, and it wont really change his kit or playstyle so ppl wont complain as much.

who knows what DE is gonna do tho but i hope they take a look at him before his prime release atleast.

Thats what im hoping aswell but afterall they didnt say a word at least during devstream about any changes coming before or at release for chroma.

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb (PS4)big_eviljak:

Im buying access... Looks amazing! Chroma is in a great spot as is.

Way to ruin every chance for him to get a rework.

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10 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Im buying access... Looks amazing! Chroma is in a great spot as is.

In what world is a warframe with only 2 useful abilities considered to be "in a great spot"?

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30 minutes ago, ChromaUmbra said:

In what world is a warframe with only 2 useful abilities considered to be "in a great spot"?

When people don't hate him and still use him. The only reason to rework Chroma is because he only has 2 functioning abilities. Virtually no passive whatsoever either. DE doesn't care about that. As long as their in game statistics shows people are still using the warframe, they won't rework the warframe. Its why they reworked Nehza. Its why they're going to rework Nyx. Compared to other warframes, very few people use those two. Even Vauban still sees some use with his Vortex and Bastille.

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21 minutes ago, Dark_Chroma said:

Still some hope for a rework, in the stream his effigy had a stange aura, so keep dreaming

Thats just the knockdown aura and visual upgrades.

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