Exalted Knuckles...? Do it for the love of Bacon.

[Me.KayOh]

15 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Come on now DE, Atlas needs the same treatment Mesa and Excalibur got. Let us mod his 1st abitlity in a similar fashion as Mesa and Excalibur allow us to mod they’re 4th. He needs the freedom to run any Melee without being pigeon holed into using a Impact weapon due to the need for impact mods.

 

Its also apparent that his Rubble armor has 0 scaling in any form or function. No matter your power/armor mods, it’s hard capped at 1500. Same with the Rubble degradation rate and duration mods. Same for the amount of Rubble/Health you recive with armor/efficiency mods.  

 

One of two ways to fix this. Either allow your WF mods to affect the Rubble mechanic or (lazily) just drastically decrease the degradation rate. I’d prefer it if mods had impact on this myself. 

 

Hope this recives a little support for the community and a DE representative would consider forwarding the idea to have it reviewed. But I won’t hold my breath, because in all likelihood I’d probably die.    

 

 

Rumblers and Strangledome are the biggest cop-outs in this game that I've seen DE pull.

 

And that's very disappointing.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

Honestly I could see Atlas being able to merge fist type melees into his first ability. Since he punches with his first ability. Basically add the combine damage of his fist melee with the damage of his first ability. For example:

Furax wraith, with its mods, does roughly 1,000 damage to enemies while Atlas’s first ability does roughly 2,000 damage. If Atlas is wearing the Furax wraith, he would do roughly 3,000. No status effects or elements. Basically all the elements turns to impact or what ever status his first ability does. Haven’t done research on atlas. 

That is the basic idea I could see. Would be cool. Could combine ability with combos and be able to make fist type melees more useful. 

All I know, is I’ll NEVER stop staying “FOR ASGARD” as I charge punch stalker in his ugly face. 

[ReinAxefury]

14 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Much much less than half your total damage if it’s a function Melee you’ll actually use in between smashing faces with Landslide.

If you do that it would be even less than half the damage actually, if you need to use your melee between landslide you are doing it wrong because you lose the time window for the combo chain.

14 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Not to mention the ability to use Healing Return or Life Strike. Healing Return actually suits him well since 11 hp to him is effectively 100+ hp to most other WFs. 

You don't need that, the rubble heals you, i also mentioned other heal options that wont require your melee slots. You are just wasting mod slots and damage on useless mods.

14 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

The only way it’s anyway near the downgrade your suggesting is to grab a MR fodder Melee, with a 5/5 Disposition and outright loosing a weapon, to power up his 1st, to use as his only Melee option, that also costs energy. That is completely impractical and unacceptable. However you nor I created this problem...

Im not losing a weapon, im choosing one over the other ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, you on the other hand want another weapon. Also, why do you keep insisting with the energy cost? you know it gets cheaper on consecutive casts don't you? it's the same mechanic as Rhinos charge, you can make landslide cost from 6 to like 1-2 energy with maxed efficiency. With Zenurik and maxed efficiency you can punch non-stop. 

 

[ReinAxefury]

11 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Exalted Knuckles feels more like it would be fitting for a new martial arts themed warframe. I've always wanted a grappler frame, though. One that does supplexes and pile drivers.

Atlas is like Titania right now. Only 1 of 4 abilities is usable. I remember using him before any reworks. He can out damage everyone on a sortie 3 eximus stronghold exterminate. Even survive properly because Landslide gives him iframes. But that's it. Sometimes I use him to grind syndicate standing on Hydron but for anything else, he doesn't work past anything that can't be punched away.

If I was gonna rework his rubble mechanic, instead of having it be extra armor, make it an over health mechanic. When his HP goes below 2, make all damage be directed to his rubble stash the same way how Quick Thinking diverts damage to energy. Since enemies will be made to drop rubble all the time, he'll be pretty tanky.

Get rid of the health on Bulwark and make it duration based. Make his rumblers do Landslide like he does. His 3 is actually okay. Its instant hard CC. Would be better if didn't cost as much energy. 

I like those ideas, but you know what would be even better than hp or armor? %damage reduction. Look how great that works in other frames like Gara, Mesa or even Trinity. The best part of damage reduction is that it is also affects your shields, so if you have 90% damage reduction is like you had 10 times the shield you have, same goes for health, except you also have armor in the case of health. If rubble scaled in little chunks up to 90% damage reduction or if it had a diminished return with endless scaling that would make it much better.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb ReinAxefury:

I like those ideas, but you know what would be even better than hp or armor? %damage reduction. Look how great that works in other frames like Gara, Mesa or even Trinity. The best part of damage reduction is that it is also affects your shields, so if you have 90% damage reduction is like you had 10 times the shield you have, same goes for health, except you also have armor in the case of health. If rubble scaled in little chunks up to 90% damage reduction or if it had a diminished return with endless scaling that would make it much better.

Well i mean he does have the unfair advantage of working well with huras allready. The one thing that's better then a percentual reduction is getting no damage at all due to invisibility.

I'm with @(PS4)mahoshonenfox here, though i'd also buff pertify personally.

It's ok for hard Cc but definitly not for the range, cone, casting time and cost. Stretch+cunning barely makes it hit enemies in front of you. I'm talking about 3-4 affected enemies/cast in crowdet content like onslaught for a base cost of a legit third ability, a solid 75 energy base. Never had anything but horrible experiences with it.

Edited September 20, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[ReinAxefury]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Well i mean he does have the unfair advantage of working well with huras allready. The one thing that's better then a percentual reduction is getting no damage at all due to invisibility.

Mmmh, that's quite interesting, never tried that before, i guess it's time to give some use to my doggo.

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It's ok for hard Cc but definitly not for the range, cone, casting time and cost. Stretch+cunning barely makes it hit enemies in front of you. I'm talking about 3-4 affected enemies/cast in crowdet content like onslaught for a base cost of a legit third ability, a solid 75 energy base. Never had anything but horrible experiences with it.

Im up for any buff to Atlas, as i suggested before, i think it could just be an aura buff around Atlas affected by duration and range as the worst part of the skill is having to be constantly casting it, the cast time is quite long and exposes atlas more than it needs to. About onslaught, there i run a high range build with less p strengh and it's not a replacement for volt or saryn, but it's quite fun since landslide has good range so every punch is a big AoE around you.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb ReinAxefury:

Mmmh, that's quite interesting, never tried that before, i guess it's time to give some use to my doggo.

You're missing out there... that doggo can't be used on many frames but atlas is among them beein in a position where he can cast continiously to do damage. Auguments his invulnerability with invisibility after a few punches, plus you're getting stealth multiplers while you're cloaked.

Also one of the reason i don't really see a need to accept the bs state pertify is in. Path of statues and summoning Rumblers is generating plenty rumble for his passive allready. Why waste that much energy on horrible Cc if you're not dependant on it?

Running the same strategy with him that aside. Nothing beats punching down whole waves of enemies ❤️

Edited September 21, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Tatersail]

This would be a major nerf because of rivens

 

Buf if your going to make exalted for the pseudo frames like Atlas, you need to add Gara and Khora to the list.

Tho, If they did it to Gara, people may actually start to understand how she works. at which point everyone would user her, QQ on forums would happen and DE would nerf the hell out of her.

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

On 2018-09-20 at 6:58 PM, Tatersail said:

This would be a major nerf because of rivens

That has been discussed and length look at page 1.

Edited September 25, 2018 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

On 2018-09-20 at 8:34 AM, ReinAxefury said:

1: If you do that it would be even less than half the damage actually, if you need to use your melee between landslide you are doing it wrong because you lose the time window for the combo chain.

2: You don't need that, the rubble heals you, i also mentioned other heal options that wont require your melee slots. You are just wasting mod slots and damage on useless mods.

3: Im not losing a weapon, im choosing one over the other ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, you on the other hand want another weapon. Also, why do you keep insisting with the energy cost? you know it gets cheaper on consecutive casts don't you? it's the same mechanic as Rhinos charge, you can make landslide cost from 6 to like 1-2 energy with maxed efficiency. With Zenurik and maxed efficiency you can punch non-stop. 

 

1: Using Quick Melee on 1-2 enemies is much more efficient than wasting any amount of  energy on them with his 1. Damage loss for using Melee...? Depends on the Melee, my preferred choice is the Lesion. Atlas 1 dmg drops off fast vs high lvl armor while the Lesion with CO does not, since its on proc mechanic double dips from CO. It’s simple at high lvls Petrify/Punch easy kills (keep Rubble armor up) and Melee Hvys, Bombards,Napalms (keeps hp with healing returned and energy up with Rage/Hunter A.) and it kills those 3 faster than spamming your 1 on them even with HR slotted.

 

2: This one makes my head explode... You say HR is a waste of a mod slot while promoting the idea its ok to waste a weapon slot, just to buff his 1...? I didn’t like it when it was the way Mesa, Valkyr and Excalibur worked, and still don’t like it. 

 Having Healing return on a Melee like say the Lesion is an easy way to keep your HP topped off so those Rubble piles go to your armor rating instead of your hp since it can go to either one or the other not both. I keep my hp up and stay at 1450-1500 Rubble armor the whole time.

 

3: Who puts efficiency at 175% on Atlas...? 130% ok Sure. Melee costs nothing, heals me while I’m doing it, provides energy while I’m do it (I’m probably getting hit and landslide makes you invincible, sometimes I want that and sometimes I really don’t). 

Edited September 25, 2018 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

double post

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[csaszar]

There are pretty good ideas in this thread.

I think it depends on DE if they want to make a purely fun frame into something that would be useful and fun.

Atlas is a tank frame who cant sustainable tank enough a brawler who cant hit hard enough etc...

Personally i would advocate for exalted fists. Using lacera with riven to get more damage sounds... well bad. Its not coherent and defies the "in game sense of reality". There are countless ways to counter the riven loss only thing atlas needs is the good will of DE.

The problem with him isnt the aquisition but the uselessness. He cant do anything that other frames cant do better. Actually he cant do anything worthy. Forget the huge single target damage he gets against low enemies. In the current state even with 2x or 3x damage he would be near useless.

Revork his skills to give him true tanking ability then make him exalted fists with much better damage dealing capabilities. Then he will be still a niche frame but at least reasonable in more scenarios.

Rubble mechanics should be at least partly automatic and the short time invulnerability should be a bit longer with overall less need for energy.

With all theese he wouldnt be ovewrpowered but a bit more useful.

[(XBOX)Kannakuro]

1 hour ago, Csaszar said:

There are pretty good ideas in this thread.

I think it depends on DE if they want to make a purely fun frame into something that would be useful and fun.

Atlas is a tank frame who cant sustainable tank enough a brawler who cant hit hard enough etc...

Personally i would advocate for exalted fists. Using lacera with riven to get more damage sounds... well bad. Its not coherent and defies the "in game sense of reality". There are countless ways to counter the riven loss only thing atlas needs is the good will of DE.

The problem with him isnt the aquisition but the uselessness. He cant do anything that other frames cant do better. Actually he cant do anything worthy. Forget the huge single target damage he gets against low enemies. In the current state even with 2x or 3x damage he would be near useless.

Revork his skills to give him true tanking ability then make him exalted fists with much better damage dealing capabilities. Then he will be still a niche frame but at least reasonable in more scenarios.

Rubble mechanics should be at least partly automatic and the short time invulnerability should be a bit longer with overall less need for energy.

With all theese he wouldnt be ovewrpowered but a bit more useful.

He can kill up to lvl 300 enemys easy with 3 punches. Your modding needs an upgrade. Use a ankyros riven on him to boost the damage on Landslide and on the ankyros prime. I don't see a problem.

[csaszar]

 

4 hours ago, (XB1)Kannakuro said:

He can kill up to lvl 300 enemys easy with 3 punches. Your modding needs an upgrade. Use a ankyros riven on him to boost the damage on Landslide and on the ankyros prime. I don't see a problem.

Most frames have a setup that can kill a lvl 300 enemy.

The problem is that Atlas cant do it in a sustained way through a mission.

Forget simulacrum.

As i said he cant do anything other frames cant do better. 

[ReinAxefury]

9 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Using Quick Melee on 1-2 enemies is much more efficient than wasting any amount of  energy on them with his 1.

No it's not. Quick Melee only wastes your time, it's inneficient for atlas and even with the possible upcoming changes to weapon swapping won't change that. As i said, if you are using Quick Melee, you are doing it wrong. And Atlas 1 is like the main reason to spend energy on the frame anyway.

 

9 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Damage loss for using Melee...? Depends on the Melee, my preferred choice is the Lesion.

It doesn't depend on the melee, doesn't matter if its the Lesion, CO takes time to build up.

 

9 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Atlas 1 dmg drops off fast vs high lvl armor while the Lesion with CO does not, since its on proc mechanic double dips from CO. It’s simple at high lvls Petrify/Punch easy kills (keep Rubble armor up) and Melee Hvys, Bombards,Napalms (keeps hp with healing returned and energy up with Rage/Hunter A.) and it kills those 3 faster than spamming your 1 on them even with HR slotted.

Or instead of standing like a vulnerable target asking to be killed while pressing the quick melee you could do something faster, like using Pox or Secondary Shotguns like Akbronco Prime, Mara Detron, etc. Takes less time, and you make tons of procs in a fraction of a sec.

 

9 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

It’s simple at high lvls Petrify/Punch easy kills (keep Rubble armor up) and Melee Hvys, Bombards,Napalms (keeps hp with healing returned and energy up with Rage/Hunter A.) and it kills those 3 faster than spamming your 1 on them even with HR slotted.

Meh.Try to use Rage/Hunter Adrenaline past an hour on Mot on solo. Then start talking about "high lvls".

 

9 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

This one makes my head explode... You say HR is a waste of a mod slot while promoting the idea its ok to waste a weapon slot, just to buff his 1...? I didn’t like it when it was the way Mesa, Valkyr and Excalibur worked, and still don’t like it.

Landslide is the main Ability on his skillset, makes sense to me building focused on it(specially since the rest of his kit isn't even good), i couldn't care less about what you like or not.

 

10 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Having Healing return on a Melee like say the Lesion is an easy way to keep your HP topped off so those Rubble piles go to your armor rating instead of your hp since it can go to either one or the other not both. I keep my hp up and stay at 1450-1500 Rubble armor the whole time.

Ok, repeat with me: "Healing Return is a really bad mod and a waste of space." Say it out loud, Healing mods on your melee are a waste, i already explained why.

 

10 hours ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Who puts efficiency at 175% on Atlas...? 130% ok Sure. Melee costs nothing, heals me while I’m doing it, provides energy while I’m do it (I’m probably getting hit and landslide makes you invincible, sometimes I want that and sometimes I really don’t). 

Someone who goes to a point where Rage and Hunter Adrenaline don't work since enemies will kill you instead of giving you energy.

 

At this point, considering you still talk about taking damage, using healing mods on melee and such i have to make you a question, i don't need the answer i just want you to let that sink in. Do you ever challenge yourself? Like, not to the point where you say "Im getting too much damage", no, im talking about way further where you can't take damage, where your movements have to be careful, map awarness becomes important and even armor starts to become trivial. I'll just say that's when warframe mechanics start to matter, on it's current state Landslide can take you there, not your Lesion, not your healing mods, Landslide and some primary/secondary for stripping armor fast.

[(XBOX)Kannakuro]

Well yes he lacks the healing and health he gets from his passive, also the armor is decaying way to fast too, indeed. But the damage output is easy to accomplish unless you don't own a good riven. Mine (275% damage and 145% toxin with finishing curse) dose a good job. He will be unplayable though after they nerf him in melee 3.0 by taking away the combo counter on his Landslide. (Thred below this one discusses this topic), that is sadly true.

[(XBOX)Kannakuro]

3 hours ago, Csaszar said:

 

Most frames have a setup that can kill a lvl 300 enemy.

The problem is that Atlas cant do it in a sustained way through a mission.

Forget simulacrum.

As i said he cant do anything other frames cant do better. 

Well yes he lacks the healing and health he gets from his passive, also the armor is decaying way to fast too, indeed. But the damage output is easy to accomplish unless you don't own a good riven. Mine (275% damage and 145% toxin with finishing curse) dose a good job. He will be unplayable though after they nerf him in melee 3.0 by taking away the combo counter on his Landslide. (Thred below this one discusses this topic), that is sadly true. But using zenurik you won't run out of energy even by casting his golems and wall if needed. 

[Windy_Wind]

This please, it's really annoying to have to go through "which melee should I choose" ( usually just any crappy melee with 5 star disposition) everytime I want to have fun with pseudo exalted weapons especially Atlas and khora. 

that aside, I sitll think Atlas needs additional heaven touch like Nezha got.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Windy_Wind