Make sortie modifiers meaningful

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

By modifiers I'm talking about the specific weapon ones like 'pistol only' or 'sniper only' which have no meaning at all unless it's a Lephantis assassination because players are going to use exalted weapon wielders like Mesa or Excalibur to cheese any other mission.

Make it so if the modifier is 'pistol only' then weapons like exalted blade and staff will be disabled but peacemakers won't because they're also pistols, or just disable all exalted weapons because these are sorties and are supposed to be a challenge anyway.

[LazyRogue]

It would be a neat idea to do something like that, i feel it would add at least a tiny bit of challenge back into them for end game players who have like 10 formas on some things in their arsenal.
On the other hand the exalted weapons are essentially apart of the warframes toolkit as an ability, perhaps rather then disabling the exalted weapon rather just disable the mods on it.
back before they were changed and the exalted stats were based on its counterpart weapon.

But i do agree something should be done about it as well as add in new modifies so you see more variation more often.

sidenote: I think that fog should be removed or have its effect increased. it really doesn't provide any hindrance.

[JaycemeSwain]

So basically turn Weapon type only sorties into a "Fire Chroma Only" sortie? No thank you

[NekroArts]

16 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

So basically turn Weapon type only sorties into a "Fire Chroma Only" sortie? No thank you

Considering how much energy is needed relative to how much damage it can deal, I highly doubt it.

Edited October 3, 2018 by NekroArts

[LazyRogue]

8 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Considering how much energy is needed relative to how much damage it can deal, I highly doubt it.

Agreed, you'd have to basically build full efficieny and duration to make the consumption viable which would mean little to no range and negligible strength.
I see the concern about it, Spore/miasma Saryns and all the other press x to win builds, but i still believe that something like this would be a great change.

[JaycemeSwain]

9 hours ago, LazyRogue said:

Agreed, you'd have to basically build full efficieny and duration to make the consumption viable which would mean little to no range and negligible strength.
I see the concern about it, Spore/miasma Saryns and all the other press x to win builds, but i still believe that something like this would be a great change.

So instead of Excal, Mesa, Khora, Ivara & Valkyr; you want to see all saryn/equinox teams? As for with fire chroma, zenurik and energy plates are a thing as well as ev trin mains

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

5 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

So instead of Excal, Mesa, Khora, Ivara & Valkyr; you want to see all saryn/equinox teams? As for with fire chroma, zenurik and energy plates are a thing as well as ev trin mains

How about disabling damage ults altogether? The modifiers does say *X weapons ONLY* so why not make it true?

[JaycemeSwain]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

How about disabling damage ults altogether? The modifiers does say *X weapons ONLY* so why not make it true?

Saryn Spore isn't an ult and then you might as well make it operator only

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

13 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

Saryn Spore isn't an ult and then you might as well make it operator only

Saryns spores takes time to ramp up and even in Sanctuary onslaught the enemies don't spawn fast enough to keep her damage up meaning she has to start all over again quite often so regular missions aren't going to be any different I think.

Ofcourse players are going to find new metas whenever old ones are taken away, it's just our efficient nature. But why not disable all damage dealing abilities if you think Saryn will be a problem? 

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

Make it so if the modifier is 'pistol only' then weapons like exalted blade and staff will be disabled but peacemakers won't because they're also pistols, or just disable all exalted weapons because these are sorties and are supposed to be a challenge anyway.

There are a lot of corner cases. What about Wukong, does he lose his 1 too? Does Ivara lose her 2? Does Nehza lose his chakram? A lot of frames have their weapons as a key part of their kit - Titania can't choose what weapon she has in Razorwing, Vuban can't do anything without grenades, and so on.

I think the only way this isn't a huge pile of special cases (and hence bugs) would be a no-frame-powers sortie, which might be interesting

[NekroArts]

On 2018-10-04 at 1:36 AM, JaycemeSwain said:

So instead of Excal, Mesa, Khora, Ivara & Valkyr; you want to see all saryn/equinox teams? As for with fire chroma, zenurik and energy plates are a thing as well as ev trin mains

I actually would be okay with that. Why? Because player's won't be able to use Exalted weapons that are categorized with a weapon type and bypass the weapon modifier that restricts that type. It shows you know what you can use at your disposal, you know the mechanics, and you know how to make it work. Sorties was suppose to be our end-game, with that in mind whether you succeed or fail shows if you were truly ready for said end-game. So seeing people using Exalted weapons that bypass the weapon modifier means one of three things:

• you're lazy and you don't want to use the correct weapon type, even if you have one with optimal build
• you don't have said weapon type or it's not yet optimally modded yet
• or you just hate using the weapon type so you use Exalted weapon to bypass it

I still have this picture back when Exalted weapons were not separately moddable.

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/LXlei0Y

This was a bow only Lua-defense sortie. Those other two players were Valkyrs, and yes I'm using Equinox, but it's night form Peaceful Provocation. Using day form with this sortie modifier, with two useless players, and in this mission type was not a good idea. I could not generate enough damage to kill with Maim, not only would it take too long attempting to do it, but by the time I do get it we were in a more dire situation than if I were in night form.

The weapon modifier was one of the modifiers that actually weeded out the players who were not ready for sortie both in terms of skill and knowledge.

Edited December 3, 2018 by NekroArts

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

6 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

The weapon modifier was one of the modifiers that actually weeded out the players who were not ready for sortie both in terms of skill and knowledge.

I don't really want to weed inexperienced players out of sorties. Clearly neither do DE. Everyone's gotta learn sometime, and frankly I'd much rather have a new sortie mode that's challenging for me (and where I'd be a learner again) than try to exclude new players from getting in to it.

 

I think you'll like the new Arbitration/Elite Alerts, they're coming in at a higher level and with boosts for very specific loadouts.

[NekroArts]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

I don't really want to weed inexperienced players out of sorties. Clearly neither do DE. Everyone's gotta learn sometime, and frankly I'd much rather have a new sortie mode that's challenging for me (and where I'd be a learner again) than try to exclude new players from getting in to it.

It's not that I want to restrict inexperience from participating, I just want them to realize that they just can't simply bypass the modifier as if it's a loophole that can be abused. Failing sorties should be a wake up call that told them "you are not ready, get better". I do want them to better themselves, but that picture is a reminder that not everyone will do so legitimately.

[LazyRogue]

8 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

I think you'll like the new Arbitration/Elite Alerts, they're coming in at a higher level and with boosts for very specific loadouts.

I'm glad you said something because reading over i remembered all about them, when a higher level sortie was mentioned. The elite alerts are definitely something the new players will try and try and then go, "ok maybe not" and elite sortie though is an intriguing idea too

Edited October 4, 2018 by LazyRogue

[Handstamp]

I mean, you could also just do the sortie with the weapon restriction. Even seemingly impossible ones, like Bow Only Ambulas, can be solo'd with the strict restriction (no exalted) if you put your mind to it, and I think it should be encouraged by the modifier itself.

While we're on the subject of meaningful modifiers, may I bring up the Enhancements? Physical enhancement is a complete non-issue because nearly every weapon type has a pure elemental permutation in it. By nature of most weapon builds, weapons are also majority elemental damage, and very few DPS frames are physical.

On the other hand, Elemental enhancement, while fine on its own, can sometimes turn certain enemies like prosecutors into aggressive level geometry. Not that they pose much of an issue, but in the future it could break certain sorties and should be accounted for in some way.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Handstamp

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

9 hours ago, Handstamp said:

mean, you could also just do the sortie with the weapon restriction. Even seemingly impossible ones, like Bow Only Ambulas, can be solo'd with the strict restriction (no exalted) if you put your mind to it, and I think it should be encouraged by the modifier itself.

I rarely fire a shot since most missions can be cheesed with Limbo, Mobile defence/sabotage/spy/rescue all don't force you to engage the enemy so I don't. But if there's a pistol only exterminate for example then you can be sure to have a lobby full of Excalibros spamming 4 all day so if I were to use a pistol in that scenario I'd be left with little to no kills or damage dealt

[Handstamp]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

I rarely fire a shot since most missions can be cheesed with Limbo, Mobile defence/sabotage/spy/rescue all don't force you to engage the enemy so I don't. But if there's a pistol only exterminate for example then you can be sure to have a lobby full of Excalibros spamming 4 all day so if I were to use a pistol in that scenario I'd be left with little to no kills or damage dealt

That's exactly what this proposed tightening is meant to resolve, though its more emblematic of how easy sorties are, regardless of modifiers.

[Kainosh]

I always though that this "weapon limit" modifier is a total crap.      

It has many flaws both in lore and gameplay.    Lore is just.....awful. Some "mechanical disruptor" can disable technology of all 4 factions?  Orokin and Cephalon included? Low tech Grineer disruptor?  Hah!

Gameplay is meh too. Weapon limit doesnt work on Amps or enemy weapons.  There is no fun or challenge in it really. At least if you have huge arsenal (most likely you do if you go Sortie)

 

I would prefer it to affect ENEMIES instead of players.  

"Enemies use secondary weapons"..... Grineer Seekers, Shield Lancers  and such will be in a mission. ALL types of them (Nightwatch, arid and so on) 

Or if there are "Snipers only" you pretty much get all kinds of Ballistas. 

 

[(PSN)OLLXK]

8 hours ago, Kainosh said:

I always though that this "weapon limit" modifier is a total crap.      

It has many flaws both in lore and gameplay.    Lore is just.....awful. Some "mechanical disruptor" can disable technology of all 4 factions?  Orokin and Cephalon included? Low tech Grineer disruptor?  Hah!

Gameplay is meh too. Weapon limit doesnt work on Amps or enemy weapons.  There is no fun or challenge in it really. At least if you have huge arsenal (most likely you do if you go Sortie)

 

I would prefer it to affect ENEMIES instead of players.  

"Enemies use secondary weapons"..... Grineer Seekers, Shield Lancers  and such will be in a mission. ALL types of them (Nightwatch, arid and so on) 

Or if there are "Snipers only" you pretty much get all kinds of Ballistas. 

 

i always wondered how mechanical disruptors worked on swords more than anything.