I Am Seriously Getting Tired Of Power Creep.

[fatpig84]

Doesn't affect me.

Does Orthos Prime make my formaed Potato Orthos useless ?

Nope. 

 

Does the Sturm wraith even barely affect the power house weapons, definitely not again.

 

However this issue will rear it's ugly head is when there is PVP.

But PVP isn't a core part of the game so I am neutral on this topic.

 

 

 

Honestly does it irk everyone if they just kill a few enemies less ? :P

P.S. I am a Nyx and Loki player so not a press 4 to kill frame btw.

[Xylia]

Doesn't affect me.

Does Orthos Prime make my formaed Potato Orthos useless ?

Nope. 

 

Does the Sturm wraith even barely affect the power house weapons, definitely not again.

 

However this issue will rear it's ugly head is when there is PVP.

But PVP isn't a core part of the game so I am neutral on this topic.

 

 

 

Honestly does it irk everyone if they just kill a few enemies less ? :P

P.S. I am a Nyx and Loki player so not a press 4 to kill frame btw.

 

^^

This.

 

"OMG Weapon ____ is SO overpowered!"

 

.......then don't *bleeeeep*ing use the weapon if you don't like it.

 

Yeesh.

[shinydunsparce]

I lost faith in Scott last livestream, when he answered that question about prime weapons:

 

"Are you concerned prime weapons are a direct upgrade over their normal counterpart?" (and therefore opening a discussion about power creep)

 

Scott: "No"

 

That's it, no explanation, just "no". I was like, what the...

 

If you haven't noticed by now, Scott's a pretty S#&$ designer.

[Xylia]

If you haven't noticed by now, Scott's a pretty S#&$ designer.

 

*rolls eyes*

 

And you're such an awesome designer yourself, eh?

[shinydunsparce]

*rolls eyes*

 

And you're such an awesome designer yourself, eh?

 

Forgot people have to be masters in order to critique anything.

[Relkin]

I was expecting it the straith to be better in one or two stat cats with a demerit in another.

 

I S#&$ bricks when I saw its stats.  It's better in every single category and by quite a bit.  

[Lumireaver]

Honestly does it irk everyone if they just kill a few enemies less ? :P

 

I'm pretty sure those of us who are most 'irked' are those who are either done with, or currently chewing threw the upper stratum of 'progression' in the game. It's because of our experiences with the current system/s that we are trying to mold and shape the future to be keep things uniformly relevant for everyone throughout their whole experience.

 

 

Forgot people have to be masters in order to critique anything.

 

Some humility would be great, for starters. 

[Xylia]

Forgot people have to be masters in order to critique anything.

 

Obviously you forget that Scott works on a TEAM and that he does not get Final say-so on everything, so obviously someone else at DE thought his ideas were good too.

 

In fact, Scott and Steve disagree on many things (such as removing Raid forever).

[fatpig84]

I'm pretty sure those of us who are most 'irked' are those who are either done with, or currently chewing threw the upper stratum of 'progression' in the game. It's because of our experiences with the current system/s that we are trying to mold and shape the future to be keep things uniformly relevant for everyone throughout their whole experience.

 

 

 

I be frank and say I enjoyed the event immensely. Resources and cores falling from the sky man !

The rewards are nice to have, just like the SV. I will bring it to level 30 then I will shelf it because shotguns are never my thing. Just like the SV as I never liked to snipe. But I keep it for collector's sake.

 

I missed out 2 events, I lost my chance at Lethal Torrent and Vigor (which is now in nightmare for probably like 0.00001% chance) and the easy nightmare event for Blaze. 

 

But hey real life does have consequences and it will eat into my gaming time, I accept it, I don't whine about it.

Heck I joined just a few days short, so I missed the Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal, do I scream about it ? Again no.

 

 

But ultimately, it is unrealistic to keep things a uniformly relevant for everything. Because event rewards will vary, a new player won't have such "free weapons" as perks no matter how you look at it.  Just like me not having the Lato / Braton V. And I like ARs the most !

 

 

So again I am neutral to this topic.

 

And once again I say, did the Sturm W ultimately make all other primary weapons obsolete ? As far as shotguns are concerned maybe it is a yes.

 

But did the Acrid which is the ultimate hand cannon, stop people from using the Vasto or Twin Gremlin ? 

Did the Lanka stopped people from formaing their SV 4 times ?

 

I say no. Anyhow the game is easy enough, there is NO power creep to be afraid off at all unless you are looking to contend with level 200+ enemies. 

 

 

Now let's wait for the armor update.

Edited September 4, 2013 by fatpig84

[TunaMayo]

Power creep or no power creep, it isn't making my current weapons any worse.

 

Just because the SWraith is good doesn't mean I'm never touching my 4 forma'd sobek again. I put Forma in that weapon because I like it and it's fun to use.

 

I have found for most occasions the SWraith is pure overkill and I could achieve the same effect with my sobek. Yet as with the sobek, the SWraith still becomes ineffective against higher level mobs, just, slightly later on....

 

In my opinion it isn't exactly a game breaking gun as it still falls prey to the almighty armour.

 

Some people have mentioned a tier system, and I would like this! I wouldn't mind "God Tier" weapons that were actually hard to achieve that you could slowly work towards (similar to mastery for Acrid/Lanka) and didn't just rely on RNG or were present on a certain weekend. Good weapons should take longer to get, there need to be more weapon bps available throughout the solar system, rather than just buy in market.

[ThePresident777]

So much cursing, is it to try and make your point come across better? Because that didn't work so well.

 

Power creep is an issue. 1 weapon, or 500, it IS an issue.

 

The cursing is just a part of the scenery.  I'm no gardener.

 

You're dodging my point entirely by just claiming that power creep is an issue.  Again, power creep is not an issue.  There are too many other issues way in front of power creep.  Even if this game was perfectly balanced, that does not mean the game is fun.  And if it were utterly imbalanaced, it would not stop me from playing what I think is fun.  I don't play any game to stare at a spread sheet all day saying, "Oh gee look at that balance, Perfect!"

 

All this yammering and steaming about power creep reminds me of politics where you see loads of politicians who do nothing but criticize and claim they would do things better or would have acted already.  Yet, they can't explain what they would actually do or what success specifically looks like or how far along to success we would be had the situation been under their control.  If they are not consulted, they complain that they are not consulted.  If they are consulted, they claim lack of initiative and leadership on the person seeking their consultation.  You just can't win with some people.  So, you shouldn't waste time on them.

 

Similarly, there is no winning on balance.  It's a dead end, a dog chasing it's tail.  DE should just make a ton of creative content/features and make sales off of that.  Content and features can and will be advertised by it's competitors, and enjoyed no matter how imbalanced a game is.  People will leave a game for advertised content and features in another game.  They're not going to switch to another game because it advertises balance.  They are not going to turn down playing an exiting character or weapon just because the rest of the characters or weapons suck.  People are used to having some suck in their games and just choosing what doesn't suck.  And good for them for not getting hung up on perfection.

 

I wouldn't give up Warframe's movement mechanics for a sluggish, plodding, clunky game no matter how well it is balanced.

 

 

I'm pretty sure those of us who are most 'irked' are those who are either done with, or currently chewing threw the upper stratum of 'progression' in the game. It's because of our experiences with the current system/s that we are trying to mold and shape the future to be keep things uniformly relevant for everyone throughout their whole experience.

 

 

Most people don't go anywhere near the "upper stratum of progression".  If it's not fun down at the lower stratum, then they are moving on.  If you think balance is going to keep and draw players, I think you are wrong, as I explained further up in this post..

Edited September 4, 2013 by ThePresident777

[ThePresident777]

Except it isn't an issue.

 

This is a game that closely resembles MMORPGs.

 

People expect to PROGRESS their character in a game like this. WTF is the point when you can get the "best" weapons out there and then everything else that's added, are mere side-grades but don't improve your performance at all? Then why even go on? What goals do you have to work towards? There has to be something BETTER to aspire to. Something to work towards, especially if the game is going to be all PvE (which I am in no way complaining about -- I hate PvP; it breeds the worst Humanity has to offer).

 

Treadmill, no thanks.

[Xylia]

Treadmill, no thanks.

 

What good is a game where you get all the best stuff, then you're done?

 

Then, you might as well be playing a single-player game.

[Tsukinoki]

@ThePresident777

Then whats the point of getting more gear?

I would be left with: "Well...this weapon (first one in the game none the less) is just as effective throughout the entire game as the acrid would be. What's the point of trying to get the acrid?"

The thing is that most players actually WANT a gear treadmill. Why? Because they want to get better gear and new weapons that have some sort of purpose and advantage over what they currently have.

[ValhaHazred]

Yep, I'm all for gear treadmill. So far all the really beefy stuff is mastery locked, clantech or an event reward anyway.

[NIL0S]

We already have tiers (Mastery), they are just not very well used, or not used at all.

IMO each rank should give you something worthwhile to look forward to, be this sidegrades or access to plain upgrades, weapon / euipment / frame wise.

Make each tier meaningful and give people alternate ways to play, weapons that have gimmicks rather than raw power are great fun.

[taiiat]

They don't need to listen, from the beginning of the game they stated that the BEST Guns and weps ingame would only be available through grinding and ingame content, from what I've seen they've stayed completely true to there word. Side Upgrades? They get old fast and cause people to quit rather then stay. Flat Upgrades or "Tiers" give people reason to continue if they like a certain set of guns because they want to get to the next Tier, why the hell do you think games like CoD etc keep people playing for so long? They give you constant content for the longer you play which is better then the previous set. It's the same case here and I see no problem with it as it's something almost every game has and some do better then others, so far Warframes in the "Better then others" category as they do indeed listen to the community still for certain things and primarily know what they're doing it seems.

CODfishy DOESN'T keep players glued to the game. the people that play it a lot, only play it because they can play with friends. 

 

the game itself, tapers off and becomes worthless in under 10 hours.

 

 

people are very blind to the fact that all of the games that use this model DON'T have constant influx, which is okay for a Retail game, but a F2P needs people to constantly be spending money and constantly attracting new players.

 

the Retail games that do this and die off in 6 months should be a LESSON for F2P companies, NOT a business model to follow.

 

i've seen the rare game use sidegrades, and at no point does the game get 'old'. every new choice for content in the game being a sidegrade that effectively does everything in a different way, but ultimately gets the job, means people can use stuff they really like.

 

if you really want an example of this in action, look at Hard Reset. 

5 minutes into the game you can get access to all of the guns, but everything is a sidegrade. and the enemies are truly challenging, they're AI is not trash and they feel very tactile to fight, they'll dodge weaponry and provide a real challenge. every. single. enemy. even the trash mobs provide a fair level of difficulty regardless of how many weapons and upgrades you've bought. 

 

 

 

 

i am seriously getting tired of people that are naive to the industry trying to tell a Development company to do the wrong thing, and saying it's the right thing. 

the power creep too, but mostly the community deliberately trying to steer Digital Extremes in the wrong direction. it's like they want games they like to be driven into the ground.

 

edit:

People expect to PROGRESS their character in a game like this. WTF is the point when you can get the "best" weapons out there and then everything else that's added, are mere side-grades but don't improve your performance at all? Then why even go on? What goals do you have to work towards? There has to be something BETTER to aspire to. Something to work towards, especially if the game is going to be all PvE (which I am in no way complaining about -- I hate PvP; it breeds the worst Humanity has to offer).

you do realize that every other game that's done that has simply increased the rest of the game with that, right? all it does in increase all the numbers. it's a waste of time. it makes you feel special, but then it doesn't matter because if a gun increases (random number)25%, the game will probably increase 20-30%. 

 

all this does is waste development time and make a fake game. 

 

games from the 80's and 90's did not do this, if you say, started with a shotgun, later on you'd get a machinegun and rocket launcher, but the ammo would be very limited, so only for use once in a while.

so, things 'creeped up', but the enemies got more powerful (not just health, actual mechanics) later on, so the weapons increased some performance traits, while also sacrificing others. 

not just an upgrade across the board.

Edited September 4, 2013 by taiiat

[ThePresident777]

What good is a game where you get all the best stuff, then you're done?

 

Then, you might as well be playing a single-player game.

 

That's your opinion.  I tolerate, and attempt to get around, treadmills.  I never play a game for the treadmill.  I play the game for the core game mechanics.  The tread mill is just some perversity I have to deal with.

[ThePresident777]

@ThePresident777

Then whats the point of getting more gear?

I would be left with: "Well...this weapon (first one in the game none the less) is just as effective throughout the entire game as the acrid would be. What's the point of trying to get the acrid?"

The thing is that most players actually WANT a gear treadmill. Why? Because they want to get better gear and new weapons that have some sort of purpose and advantage over what they currently have.

 

I'm not sure I can answer that.  I enjoy playing in different circumstances rather than the same ones all the time.  I don't play games to get virtual stuff.  It's not the getting that I seek.  It's the using that matters and variety, not being stuck in the same circumstances all the time.  So, I change my load out from time to time, not for efficiency, but for fun.  I know acrid and ogris are the most powerful weapons.  But, I get bored of doing the same thing so I switch it up. 

[Silvershadow66]

Well the Strun Wraith has been released. And together with Snipetron Vandal, Prime Weapons and the complete uselessness of some weapons out there *cough* Long Swords *cough*. I feel like the balance in this game is going full re**rd. Really... What happened to sidegrades?

 

Concentrating on Sidegrades are not worth the development effort when compare to upgrades, that has been proved time and time again in game after game. Upgrades give players a goal to work for, which means DE gets cash and it gets (and keeps) people playing.

 

Over time new more powerful weapons will be introduced, deal with it. Its not as if there is anything in Warfame that you can't complete with current weapons below the "top tier". The Strun Wraith was needed, it brings shotguns closer to the level of Flux/Acrid for player who like to use single-shot shotguns. Hopefully they will introduce some better melee weapon choices.

 

Funny thing is. If you make a tiering system. Then do it right. There are a lot of weapons of different tiers in this game and guess what. They are for Mastery Rank 0.

 

Good. To get the "better" weapons people still have to play the game to get the resources. By not putting all the weapons behind mastery gating they allow players to use the weapons that they like without leveling up too many things just to throw them away because all they needed was the 3k/6k points toward mastery.

 

If someone wants to use their starting frame and still have access to decent weapons they should be able to do that.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Silvershadow66