Why are people so against riven disposition changes?

[voltocitygel]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

I wouldnt mind once per quarter or so. Unless of course they can get the riven dispo and weapons in decent balance so all weapons become fairly equal when a riven is used.

I think that's the goal. The problem is, each weapon release and each mod release alters the "meta", and as such, what most people use. So for rivens to work as intended, they too have to shift with the weapon's usage. 

[Makunogo]

Just now, axellex said:

But they did it before when they reduced the stats for tonkor and soma, granted back then it was quite quick and not many good tonkor or soma rivens existed and prices were not as outrageous as for lanka.

I still fully expect them to trash the people that bought rivens for 4k-10k plat, sucks to be power hungry. 😂

The lanka is  not a good example in my opinion, since the riven has a dispo of 3. but its still hella expensive but thats mostly due to its usage in Eidolons. before eidolons they were basically worthless

[stormy505]

5 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

The insane prices were not set by DE so lets stop blaming them for that shall we?

Well... There not completely inocent cause it's on them to balence the dispositions to keep the market under control

[Makunogo]

i see a lot of people basically attacking the ones who spend a lot of plat on rivens ? why does it matter how much they spent ?

[axellex]

Just now, Makunogo said:

The lanka is  not a good example in my opinion, since the riven has a dispo of 3. but its still hella expensive but thats mostly due to its usage in Eidolons. before eidolons they were basically worthless

So what the lanka should remain the godtier eidolon killer? I don't think so it's days are numbered just like everything else that raises to the top and stays there.

[Makunogo]

Just now, stormy505 said:

Well... There not completely inocent cause it's on them to balence the dispositions to keep the market under control

actually its not on them to control the market at all. where does this idea come from. 

[Makunogo]

Just now, axellex said:

So what the lanka should remain the godtier eidolon killer? I don't think so it's days are numbered just like everything else that raises to the top and stays there.

Lanka can one shot eidolons without a riven. rivens just make the numbers bigger.

[stormy505]

2 minutes ago, voltocitygel said:

I think that's the goal. The problem is, each weapon release and each mod release alters the "meta", and as such, what most people use. So for rivens to work as intended, they too have to shift with the weapon's usage. 

Also not just the weapons but the content released in the game. Like sniper rivens shot up in value when eidolons were released

[Makunogo]

my question for people is what about new weapons? and their disposition do you guys find them to be decent? 

skiajati, pupacyst, hystrix, veldt, ect

do you think more people would use theses if thier dispo was 5/1 even if the weapon needed it or not?

Edited October 22, 2018 by Makunogo

[stormy505]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

i see a lot of people basically attacking the ones who spend a lot of plat on rivens ? why does it matter how much they spent ?

Cause the majority of the time they are the ones who don't want the dispositions to be changed cause they feel they should keep there rivens just how they want them. Also were not really attacking them were arguing against there opinions

[axellex]

Just now, Makunogo said:

my question for people is what about new weapons? and their disposition do you guys find them to be decent? 

skiajati, pupacyst, hystrix, veldt, ect

Why does it matter if they can all change one day. Remember the disposition is set on popularity.

[Makunogo]

6 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

Also not just the weapons but the content released in the game. Like sniper rivens shot up in value when eidolons were released

yes because Snipers hit the hardest on bosses and eidolon is a new boss so it makes complete sense that the market would change accordingly because the demand is there

 

2 minutes ago, axellex said:

Why does it matter if they can all change one day. Remember the disposition is set on popularity.

 

because these items had dispositions on day 1. they have no data on them on usage

by the currently logic flow since they are new weapons they will have no usages. so all new weapons should be dispo 5 no?

Edited October 22, 2018 by Makunogo

[stormy505]

8 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

i see a lot of people basically attacking the ones who spend a lot of plat on rivens ? why does it matter how much they spent ?

The games suffering from plat inflation cause the market has had next to no maintenance done on it. people wouldn't spend so much plat on rivens if they were balenced properly. Although it's not DEs' job to adjust the market. It is there job to balence rivens which would effect the market

Edited October 22, 2018 by stormy505

[axellex]

1 minute ago, stormy505 said:

Cause the majority of the time they are the ones who don't want the dispositions to be changed cause they feel they should keep there rivens just how they want them. Also were not really attacking them were arguing against there opinions

To be fair you can't blame people for having that mentality it's just like with the operator suits people cried out very loud once something they paid for got changed to such an extent that it wasn't even close to what they purchased. It's a natural response if you buy a chocolate ice scream and when you taste it, it's not chocolate but strawberry it's just masked with colorant I'd imagine you wouldn't be happy either.

[Makunogo]

2 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

The games suffering from plant inflation cause the market has had next to no maintenance done on it. people wouldn't spend so much plat on rivens if they were balenced properly. Although it's not DEs' job to adjust the market. It is there job to balence rivens which would effect the market

 

so basically when something becomes expensive it has to be changed? that doesn't really make sense. 

i also disagree that the inflation would go away if dispo did change. that's simply not true.

sure the numbers may alter but the popularity of meta weapons will keep their prices up generally unless they outright reduce them to Dispo 1 permanently but that isnt going to happen.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Makunogo

[stormy505]

3 minutes ago, axellex said:

To be fair you can't blame people for having that mentality it's just like with the operator suits people cried out very loud once something they paid for got changed to such an extent that it wasn't even close to what they purchased. It's a natural response if you buy a chocolate ice scream and when you taste it, it's not chocolate but strawberry it's just masked with colorant I'd imagine you wouldn't be happy either.

Fair enough... In all honesty I wish de changed the dispositions on a regular basis from the start so we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

[Yagamilight123]

hace 1 hora, (PS4)randy_lahey__-- dijo:

I get that having your riven nerfed would suck, but what the community isn't relizing is that there would be a ton of new rivens buffed. Like there are so many new weapons with a 3 star disposition that are never used and should be 5 star. Makes me really angry how the community doesn't want these weapons to be brought up to the power level they should be. Your tiberon is going to still wreck with a 2 star disposition riven.

Its pretty easy to see why ... just a little common sense . If you spend thousans of kuva rolling a riven for X weapon and then they make the weapon weaker you lose A LOT of time , its not that hard to understand , its meant absolute nothing that they buff another riven if they nerf the one you spend a lot of time to get . The weapon is going to be "usable" if they nerf the disposition ? maybe , but people (in general) dont spend dozens of hours farming kuva (or paying an insane ammount of pl) to do a weapon "usable" they do it to make it the best .

[Goodwill]

2 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

 

so basically when something becomes expensive it has to be changed? that doesn't really make sense

It doesn't make sense because that's not how you think about it. Rivens don't need to change because they are expensive, Rivens need to change because they do not fulfill the role originally intended for them which was to apply a bandaid to "unbalanced" weapons. The prices are simply a consequence of that failing.

[axellex]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

 

so basically when something becomes expensive it has to be changed? that doesn't really make sense

No I don't think so hell one of reasons why devs probably don't wanna mess with the rivens is because any changes would destabilize the market, people would simply be less inclined to spend money on something that costs 500$ one day and the next it's 5$. But I can still see it happen after all the rivens are pachinko machines and gamblers will gamble away no matter what, but the prices for "GODROLLS LUL" will never ever reach what we have seen today.

[stormy505]

5 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

 

so basically when something becomes expensive it has to be changed? that doesn't really make sense

I'm not gonna go into an economic lecture and explain why markets crash, what a market bubble is and how it occurs and how it pops, or how trickle down economics work. More or less if you have been playing the game for a long time you have probably noticed how the market has changed. Like how it's much harder to sell a prime set then it was before.

[Eirshy]

You'd need a complete Rivens 2.0 to make it work. Otherwise you're just gonna piss people off and have to do it again in a month or two.

Hell, even making it accurate to [current] usage stats would be bad- there's a lot of weapons that are only really viable in the first place due to their riven dispo. And even then, the original reason for tying it to usage at that time was because there was no other metric that could be used to "accurately" gauge weapon effectiveness. Since MR reqs are what they now are, you can use that as a stable power metric, and tie your dispo to that.

Then the issue becomes that currently a riven is for the weapon and all variants. IE, an AkBolto riven can be equipped on the Telos and Prime versions. This would also need to change.

 

So personally, I am opposed to only a dispo change. A complete Riven 2.0 bound to MR of the weapon equipped, preferably with additional features (partial reroll? natural dual elements? explosions? status-on-crit? convert-to-element? energy-on-x? life-on-x?) and preferably an "old rivens are grandfathered or can be converted" clause like they did with Arcane Helmets to mitigate the backlash... That, I support 100%.

But a dispo change and nothing else will not actually make things better. It'll collapse a huge part of the plat trade, and that's what keeps DE so very profitable.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Eirshy

[Makunogo]

2 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

It doesn't make sense because that's not how you think about it. Rivens don't need to change because they are expensive, Rivens need to change because they do not fulfill the role originally intended for them which was to apply a bandaid to "unbalanced" weapons. The prices are simply a consequence of that failing.

from what i know it was ALSO to buff unused weapons to so they would be used. 

i disagree and think DE considering how many weapon choices there is, did a decent job with thier dispositions. sure some of them are outdated but its realistically a stupid idea to constantly be changing the disposition of weapons. nobody will be buying anything if they are constantly afraid thier "godly riven" will be nerfed

[Xolgys]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)randy_lahey__--:

Ya I guess not many weapons will change, but I still think they should change them because that's how the riven system was always supposed to work. It would not be much effort for de to change them. The forums would just be toxic for a few weeks, or months.

the intent of rivens originally was to make less "late game" viable weapons compete. right now there are only few exceptions with a high riven dispo and still i see other weapons much more often and some hidden gems which are far stronger with the right riven absolutely not so...its still a difficult topic but those weapons luckily are few. most innately strong weapons have +/- the appropriate disposition. personally the only weapon i think which really has a too high dispo is gram prime and arguably tiberon prime, although i have a "god" riven for it myself. still, i think ~1.2 dispo would be fine considering its not an AoE weapon where that dispo on an already silly strong weapon would really be too much. even with punch through its still not even close to real AoE. the only issue is a comparison with something like sybaris or soma. both used to be really good, sybaris prime still is but tiberon prime is just better. i think a nerf for tiberon primes dispo alone doesnt helpt that. especially soma needs a disposition buff and sybaris a small one too. putting tiberon to around 1.2-1.3 dispo alongside a buff for the other too would be a good step imo. melee i guess gram gets a change with melee 3.0 when there are more usage statistics but right now i would already nerf that dispo to ~ 0.7 and buff galatine primes to 0.9. gram is just too strong already...it only needs attack speed and range to really be straight up better than galatine prime, by default its already kind of a sidegrade. other than these...personally i have trouble finding a really good example for a nerf/buff...soma prime is right now a good example of an old weapon which isnt really good anymore although it used to. boltor prime is kind of the same but telos boltor is really good so theres that. braton prime is really strong although the dispo is broderline too low imo. burston prime could use a dispo buff too. now thats all my spontaneous ideas where a dispo change would be justifiable gone. it surely is an opinion up to a certain point but still.

if i sum these up thats maybe 6-7 weapons max without considering all melee except for galatine and gram since thats a really extreme, recent case where we have an arguable sidegrade with 1.4 vs 0.5 dispo.

[Makunogo]

2 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

I'm not gonna go into an economic lecture and explain why markets crash, what a market bubble is and how it occurs and how it pops, or how trickle down economics work. More or less if you have been playing the game for a long time you have probably noticed how the market has changed. Like how it's much harder to sell a prime set then it was before.

warframemarket? i have been around for a while and i don't see it hard at all to sell a prime set o .o unless im selling it in trade chat which is just silly..

[stormy505]

5 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

from what i know it was ALSO to buff unused weapons to so they would be used. 

It failed miserable at that cause it made good weapons better and bad weapon rivens get scrapped. With the exception of some hidden gems but those are few and far in between