Who Here Is A Fan Of The Incoming Overheat Change?

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm not trying to repeat the dozen other threads on the subject. I'm sure there are people out there that fit the title. If you are one, please say such and explain why you hold that view. Perhaps there's something the rest of us are missing.

 

I'm willing to withhold at least some judgement as I don't see why Geoff would have described it as "this is really cool" unless there was some unique mechanic we weren't told.  Maybe how it does damage is awesome.

 

EDIT: for those who aren't aware of what the change was, Overheat's damage reduction is getting nerfed and the damage is getting buffed.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[PsychedelicSnake]

At this point, I'm reserving any judgement I may have for when it is actually in effect.

[LordMidnightX]

what exactly is the upcoming change? sorry I haven't been paying as much attention as a should have

[f3llyn]

what exactly is the upcoming change? sorry I haven't been paying as much attention as a should have

 

This.. for those of us that have been really busy with for the last week or so. I haven't been keeping up on the Warframe news.

[Jugganatha]

They really must be banking on the armor rework making damage abilities useful. Damage increases across the board aren't really worth losing a 10x HP multiplier.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

what exactly is the upcoming change? sorry I haven't been paying as much attention as a should have

 

This.. for those of us that have been really busy with for the last week or so. I haven't been keeping up on the Warframe news.

Updated OP.

[Silraed]

I am holding off judgment at the moment.

But it seems a little bit like a bandaid for the other skills having lacklustre damage, instead of actually fixing the problem at its core.

[LordMidnightX]

aaa I see... that sounds really bad considering ember is all damage and her abilities usually involve getting close to enemies and sticking around doing DOT... but if overheat now has some cc to it that would be different because then the damage reduction wouldn't matter as much if enemies are being staggered or something... not saying it will be like that but I to will be waiting to see how it turns out.

[Dracosaber]

I think it's too early to complain and rage. We need to see how the new damage system affects damage abilities. If viable, Ember could become more of a caster-type warframe with high damage potential, which could come in handy in many situations. We just don't know enough yet about the new system, the change, or anything, to make any kind of call or argument for or against. We need to wait. 

[inthephonebox]

It really comes down to the specific figures associated with the changes. As it is, Ember is tankier than Rhino, able to withstand farm more punishment for longer while doing damage on the side. I never really liked the idea that Ember had such great damage reduction capabilities. But that damage reduction capability is so high that even cutting it in half would leave ember with more survivability than most frames. When playing Ember I never really took into account the damage output of overheat because it was such insignificant past mid-level, but if they buff that 50-100%, coupled with the armor and damage model rework, we could be left with a power that leaves Ember durable enough for CQC with adding a considerable amount of extra damage to augment melee and close range specializations. 

 

Out of the three frames listed as being reworked, Ember is the one I'm least concerned with atm. 

[Othergrunty]

I think it's too early to complain and rage. We need to see how the new damage system affects damage abilities. If viable, Ember could become more of a caster-type warframe with high damage potential, which could come in handy in many situations. We just don't know enough yet about the new system, the change, or anything, to make any kind of call or argument for or against. We need to wait. 

 

Doesn't mean that we can't at least ask them to withhold the change to damage reduction and damage buff until AFTER the update to see if it will be less beneficial. Instead of "fixing" it now and then needing to spend weeks to fix it back after everyone realises that it was wrong even with the new system.

 

The whole idea that overheat is no longer Ember's sole survival and team support (being able to run into gunfire and revive or draw enemy attacks towards her) skill, but just another area flame damage skill, is kind of overshadowing everything about her changes.

 

If they didn't made this bone headed move, trying to fix the only thing that didn't needed fixing, we could now spend a nice time speculating how fireball and fireblast might be after the update or how else they could have improved them.

 

Also maybe it's just me but Ember's visual design doesn't scream "caster" to me. Her original male design did, but the current looks more brawler, which would be confusing if she misses and physical advantage.

 

PS: Sorry for not contributing possetive arguments for the overheat change.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Othergrunty

[Dracosaber]

Doesn't mean that we can't at least ask them to withhold the change to damage reduction and damage buff until AFTER the update to see if it will be less beneficial. Instead of "fixing" it now and then needing to spend weeks to fix it back after everyone realises that it was wrong even with the new system.

 

The whole idea that overheat is no longer Ember's sole survival and team support (being able to run into gunfire and revive or draw enemy attacks towards her) skill, but just another area flame damage skill, is kind of overshadowing everything about her changes.

 

If they didn't made this bone headed move, trying to fix the only thing that didn't needed fixing, we could now spend a nice time speculating how fireball and fireblast might be after the update or how else they could have improved them.

 

Also maybe it's just me but Ember's visual design doesn't scream "caster" to me. Her original male design did, but the current looks more brawler, which would be confusing if she misses and physical advantage.

 

PS: Sorry for not contributing possetive arguments for the overheat change.

Not really, because again, you are thinking in terms of today's damage mechanics. The team know what this change means in terms of the new system, we don't. Thus, zero reason to hold back on such changes. In fact, holding off on such big changes might make it even harder for people, so I think it's better they do it now. 

 

My girlfriend loves Ember, I would hate for her viability to go down, it's what she has fun with. But complaining before we even know what is going on is both ignorant and quite honestly worthless. There is no point. DE listens, even if it doesn't always seem that way. People forget a lot about certain things. If after the update Ember becomes worthless, I doubt they will forget about her completely, and if she does become much less viable, I will be up in the forums complaining like the rest. But for now, complaining without any idea of what all this actually means is basically stupid. No offense to anyone, but the complaining needs to stop for now. 

[Zeritol]

If they turn overheat into essentially a mini world on fire then that would be disappointing.  I do not in theory have a problem with here damage reduction getting lowered as long as it is replaced with something else that is fun.  To me having 2 abilities that the main focus is they do damage to people around you is overkill.  I always saw the fire damage of overheat as more of a bonus  then a reason to use it anyway.  If all they are doing is reducing the damage resistance and increasing the damage it does that seems like a very boring change.  I can understand that DE might think the current overheat's damage resistance is to high at the moment, but it needs something more than just more damage to compensate.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

At this point, I'm reserving any judgement I may have for when it is actually in effect.

this pretty much ^ However, I hope they change fireball to a CC of some kind, I.E up the projectile speed, and give it some effect like forcing enemies to run around randomly for 3-4 seconds (as some sort of escape)

 

But if overheat does turn into a mini WoF, it's gonna be a little disappointing.

[Lunaticked]

PS: Sorry for not contributing possetive arguments for the overheat change.

 

Don't worry. This thread is going to turn into just another thread consisting of people against the change, with a few people wanting to wait and see, and the very very rare person trying to figure out reasons to like it just for the challenge.

 

Not trying to be a prick or anything, but just noticing the trend of opinions regarding the proposed change so far.

[Brasten]

Not really, because again, you are thinking in terms of today's damage mechanics. The team know what this change means in terms of the new system, we don't. Thus, zero reason to hold back on such changes. In fact, holding off on such big changes might make it even harder for people, so I think it's better they do it now.

They think they know what the changes mean. When has that historically survived contact with the reality of play? It didn't survive on the Rhino Iron Skin revision. It certainly didn't survived when Overheat was first added to game with its original intent of being a super close range lower cost DoT field. The way Overheat functions currently is fine, the Ember isn't unkillable using it. At least no more then Linking Trinties and Snow Globing Frosts. If it ain't broke it don't need fixing. If DE thinks the damage reduction is too high I say they give us numbers and prove it, because anecdotally over these last few months nothings noticeably wrong with it. Not the way Iron Skin used to be or the way Link still kinda is.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Brasten

[Prii01]

EDIT: for those who aren't aware of what the change was, Overheat's damage reduction is getting nerfed and the damage is getting buffed.

 

i thought the way focus works on overheat was changed so that it doesn't  increase the reduction but the damage

 

right now i don't have enough information on the change to claim i would understand it anyway

 

i mean i always thought it was kinda strange that overheat didn't add fire damage to melee attacks instead you get a bit of aoe you don't really use anyway

[Othergrunty]

Not really, because again, you are thinking in terms of today's damage mechanics. The team know what this change means in terms of the new system, we don't. Thus, zero reason to hold back on such changes. In fact, holding off on such big changes might make it even harder for people, so I think it's better they do it now. 

 

My girlfriend loves Ember, I would hate for her viability to go down, it's what she has fun with. But complaining before we even know what is going on is both ignorant and quite honestly worthless. There is no point. DE listens, even if it doesn't always seem that way. People forget a lot about certain things. If after the update Ember becomes worthless, I doubt they will forget about her completely, and if she does become much less viable, I will be up in the forums complaining like the rest. But for now, complaining without any idea of what all this actually means is basically stupid. No offense to anyone, but the complaining needs to stop for now. 

 

None taken but, but it's mainly about trying to prevent something that from our perspective does not look like a good change, instead of blindly letting it happen and having to uncessarily complain afterwards. Also we are even more worried since we don't know how the new damage system will operate.

 

Also there is another big argument which keeps popping up against the change. Mainly that making all her 4 abilities just variation of the same type of attack makes her too one dimensional in the way you play her and having nothing to contribute to the team.

 

In a game which is proclaimed to be primarily about team work, having a frame which sole effect is to kill things with one type of elemental damage in a radial effect, does not scream "team play" to me.

Even Ash has a teamwork trait thanks to Smokescreen allowing safe revival of team mates.

 

Hell, just look at the opposite end of the elementral spectrum with Frost. He has 3 abilities which are only damage dealing, essentialy like Ember. But thanks to Snowglobe he offers one massive team benefiting ability to the mix. Ember's counterpart for this was so far Overheat thanks to allowing team support actions. But with it just being another damage enemies in a small radius ability it helps no one but the player him/herself A BIT.

 

Now one might argue that after the fix fireblast might be team beneficial thanks to being able to lock down entry points. But the fact that 2/3rd of all enemy types attack from far away, makes this ability far from usefull for everyone.

 

While i am at comparing Frost and Ember. Frost is technical a pure caster type unit. But unlike Ember he can survive fights thanks to having more shield and armor which can rival Rhino.

Which fits a lot into what Steve once said about not wanting Warframes to soley fit into specific types of classes. But now with that they propose for Ember, she become exactly THAT:

 

Bottom line. I wouldn't be so unecessarily mad at the comming overheat change if they at least would give her one team helping utility ability in enchange (like remove fireball instead of trying to desperatly make it seem usefull) and finaly beef up her stats so people can actualy run into the fray with her to unleash her abilities.

 

Hey, just take this as my argument why the overheat change could be good. If the changes around Ember make it less necessary to have this great damage reduction to survive in frontal combat where her abilities are most usefull.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Othergrunty

[RAFFIFAR]

Sounds rather silly to me, Overheat is the one ability that didn't need changes.