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Do rewards make the game?


Cephalycion
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Conclave is dead because noone likes PvP.

The above statement is wrong.

Conclave is dead because there are no rewards to justify playtime.

This is coming from a Typhoon here.

There is a subset of people in the Warframe community that say they hate conclave and don't want to be forced to play it for exclusive rewards. And I have absolutely no problem with that.

But Conclave doesn't even have decent, common rewards. The amount of credits you can earn is menial, the only significant one is the 100k from the weeklies. The amount of endo, polymer, every other resource, is rewarded at such pathetic pace.

Warframe is a farming game. Let's be honest. It is right there in recruiting chat. "LF orokin cell farm". "H polymer farm". You cannot deny it. Rewards make the game.

This is a game where people are willing to stand in one spot for hours watching tentacles fling enemies around. Efficiency is valued of enjoyment. Sometimes the two don't really pair well with one another.

But sometimes they do. Take tridolon speedrunning for example. It's fun to see some hardcore teamwork synergising with each other to take down the eidolons as quickly as possible. Volt puts his shield, Oberon keeps everyone topped off, Chroma does the damage. The scene feels epic.

But on your hundredth run, it gets boring. Repetitive. The same warframes over and over again. Trinity. Volt. Oberon. Chroma. Trinity. Volt. Oberon. Chroma.

Do people give up on Eidolon runs then? Heck no. It gives way too valuable rewards to pass up. Arcanes, sentient cores, shards, so much incentive.

Hopefully, DE keeps in mind that rewards are just as important as gameplay in future updates.

 

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Conclave DOES have some nice rewards, but they're locked behind a syndicate that's impossible to rank up because nobody plays conclave and the reason is it's unbalanced and boring. My Tiberon prime takes forever to get a kill but some low level with a MK1 Braton wipes the floor with me, and the Lex Prime is a one hit beast, pretty much the opposite of what I'm used to in PvE modes.

DE needs to remove these conclave exclusive mods and let us use our usual ones but with fixed stats, basically everyone who uses Vitality gets 200hp and nothing more. Not feeling like a crippled 90yo with a water pistol everytime we join a conclave match will be a step in the right direction when it comes to making conclave popular

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2 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

Conclave is dead because noone likes PvP.

The above statement is wrong.

No, no you were more right with the first statement.

The issue isn't the lack of great rewards. That wouldn't make people enjoy PvP in this game. It would just force them to tolerate PvP long enough to get the great rewards then never come back again.

It's not a subset of players that dislike PvP. Most of this community is not interested in PvP which is why DE doesn't put much effort into it. It just isn't a major focus of this game. It's kinda a vicious cycle though, since DE doesn't put much effort into it it's not worth playing it. I believe they've said in the past there's no real intention on changing that though since their numbers showed even less people played PvP than Raids.

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Whether or not the rewards are good is of course subjective. I've longed for some of those pvp skins with a passion ever since the introduction of Conclave, and despite attempting to beat my head against it many times over the years, I'm still just as far away from them as always.

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The rewards in conclave are not the issue, there are some things I would love to get my hands on (the armour you can't buy for plat for example), there are just fundamental issues with how PvP works in this game compared with games like unreal tournament/quake (both of which I like) that makes it unenjoyable to play for many people.  Then there's things like poor matchmaking which really doesn't help... no 'newbie' in conclave who has no mods etc wants to be paired against someone who basically lives there.

 

As to rewards, to me rewards need to be 'equal' to the amount of time and effort required to gain them.  I stopped doing eidolons because they were just pretty boring in all honesty and the drops for the arcanes I actually 'want' are so low I just couldn't be bothered in the end. 

Same situation with vandal items in eso, the drop rate is like 2% which is too low for ANY reward imo, I couldn't give a monkey about more relics or the peculiar mods.  While I still need focus and it's a good place to go to get it, it gets rather repetitive when you can use saryn... 

Arbitrations has a similar issue in as much that while endo is useful for some it's too heavy in the rewards table for something which requires twice the duration before rewards AND has artificial difficulty by removing things like revives and drones.

Edited by LSG501
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2 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

No, no you were more right with the first statement.

The issue isn't the lack of great rewards. That wouldn't make people enjoy PvP in this game. It would just force them to tolerate PvP long enough to get the great rewards then never come back again.

It's not a subset of players that dislike PvP. Most of this community is not interested in PvP which is why DE doesn't put much effort into it. It just isn't a major focus of this game. It's kinda a vicious cycle though, since DE doesn't put much effort into it it's not worth playing it. I believe they've said in the past there's no real intention on changing that though since their numbers showed even less people played PvP than Raids.

Again, I did say that I have no problem with people not liking conclave and its perfectly fine if you dont want to play it for the rewards.

Again, you won't have to, because the rewards are common (credits, endo, resources) and can be farmed someplace else.

What I meant was to make the game feel more fulfilling to the people who already enjoy conclave, who already play it on regular basis. Like me.

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2 minutes ago, Cephalycion said:

Again, I did say that I have no problem with people not liking conclave and its perfectly fine if you dont want to play it for the rewards.

Again, you won't have to, because the rewards are common (credits, endo, resources) and can be farmed someplace else.

What I meant was to make the game feel more fulfilling to the people who already enjoy conclave, who already play it on regular basis. Like me.

And I was commenting based on your statement that PvP is dead because it's not worth it, when in fact it's the opposite. DE doesn't make it worth it because the community has already shown through years of lack of participation that we generally aren't interested in pvp.

DE has made it clear they will not devote much time or energy to it because it isn't worth the investment. Raids were more used despite it being a minority of the community and were only removed because it was more costly to maintain the Raids than trash them and start over. Conclave has less people but DE said there wasn't really any costly upkeep to keep it in place so it wasn't trashed. To clarify, it's trash that just happens to still be on the shelf when the trashcan is only a few feet away. Lol It's already hanging by a thread as it is.

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Just now, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

And I was commenting based on your statement that PvP is dead because it's not worth it, when in fact it's the opposite. DE doesn't make it worth it because the community has already shown through years of lack of participation that we generally aren't interested in pvp.

DE has made it clear they will not devote much time or energy to it because it isn't worth the investment. Raids were more used despite it being a minority of the community and were only removed because it was more costly to maintain the Raids than trash them and start over. Conclave has less people but DE said there wasn't really any costly upkeep to keep it in place so it wasn't trashed. To clarify, it's trash that just happens to still be on the shelf when the trashcan is only a few feet away. Lol It's already hanging by a thread as it is.

That was one revelation I did not want to hear.

Sometimes I wished warframe's PVP could be a little more like other PVE games' PVP systems. Rewarding and fun. Take Destiny or Halo for example.

Maybe its because of the intense movement system which makes aiming a gun at flying warframes so difficult. But in my experience it is definitely doable, especially with auto rifles.

I hope Conclave will get a comeback a few years down the road, something like:

For now, well, I accept my fate.

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3 minutes ago, Cephalycion said:

That was one revelation I did not want to hear.

Sometimes I wished warframe's PVP could be a little more like other PVE games' PVP systems. Rewarding and fun. Take Destiny or Halo for example.

Maybe its because of the intense movement system which makes aiming a gun at flying warframes so difficult. But in my experience it is definitely doable, especially with auto rifles.

I hope Conclave will get a comeback a few years down the road, something like:

For now, well, I accept my fate.

Yeah, I think it's probably doable if they had the time and money, but they are a small team compared to the companies that did Destiny and Halo so they have to pick their battles. Our fast paced combat definitely makes it harder to keep PvP as engaging without breaking things.

Things may change in the future, but for now they haven't shown the inclination. Honestly, people were baffled when Lunaro came out since people forgot Conclave even existed and figured DE had too. Lol

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