Feedback involving Nyx rework

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I'll be straight up with y'all, I don't have a mega ton of hours into her.  So I might be missing some subtle things about her kit.  I do also want to state that when I first started playing Warframe she was the first frame I grinded for.  I was pretty let down.  She is toted as being a psychic frame.  Specifically she's specialized in being able to disrupt enemy ranks and the battlefield in indirect ways.  She kind of does this.  But I don't think her theme is fleshed out well enough.  I am bringing this up because she is slated to receive a rework very soon.  Overall I wasn't very impressed with the proposed changes.  So before I move into my suggestions for her kit i'm going to take a look at DE's chosen changes and give my feedback on them.

Passive:  Her current passive has a chance to disarm enemies that get effected by her abilities.  Her new passive gives enemies an accuracy debuff when targeting her.  Both of these passives are aimed at trying to help Nyx stay alive since she has no direct defensive abilities.  The problem with her current passive is that it doesn't fit her thematically at all.  That and it actually works against her kit.  You could accidentally disarm your mind controlled target.  Disarmed targets can't contribute to your absorb.  And having several enemies turned melee based is bad news for nyx if she gets near by.  Not to mention you'd rather have a bombard bombing it's friends than hitting them.  Her new passive fits her thematically a bit better.  But is hampered by the ability for them to simply target your pet/sentinel or ally and hit you in the cross fire.  Not to mention some enemies just don't care about accuracy debuffs for whatever reason.

 

Mind control:  The proposed changes here are to give it better "follow nyx" coding so it's more like a bodyguard.  This is good.  You can also ramp it's damage by shooting at it during a 4 second period after you cast it on an enemy.  Good interaction if a little off base thematically.  The issue arises with the fact that it's current augment already increases her targets damage.  This change is of course probably not rendering the augment unusable.  The problem is it's just being redundant.  The augment should change to something else to compensate for this.  Or the change to mind control should be something else.

 

Psychic bolts:  Is a direct damage ability that does not belong on a frame about subtle and indirect actions.  The status chance to proc radiation is too small to be considered a usable main effect.  The augment makes it a decent cc ability if a bit on the nose for interactions.  DE's change is to give it 80% chance to strip armor.  This is a functionality change that makes it usable for end game content.  But it doesn't really suit her thematically and overall just feels like a lazy bandaid fix that doesn't address this abilities issue.  that being it's designed as a damage ability instead of a utility ability.

 

Absorb:  The only change it's receiving is a damage type change.  Instead of it being magnetic based it fires back whatever is put in it.  This again makes it functional.  But doesn't address the issue of this ability.  Which is it being out of place thematically.

 

Overall these changes are decent.  But they don't really satisfy the feeling of her kit that's missing.  She will most certainly be more usable.  But I'd rather have a niche use frame that actually does what it says on the sticker than have a frame that could fit into meta play.  So here is what i'd personally like to see in her kit.

My passive:  Enemies are much slower to react to nyx's presence.  This essentially means she can pretty much fly right by enemies and not really be noticed.  She'd have to stand pretty close to them for a brief period of time for them to recognize that she is there.  Short of that she'd have to bump them or shoot them to catch their attention.  in missions where enemies are in permanent alert status This simply means the enemies will not immediately Shoot her.  giving her a brief period of time to figure out what she wants to do.  This should allow her to get off a cast of an ability when entering a room with enemies staring at her.

 

My mind control:  I have two suggested changes here.  one for her actual ability.  And one for her augment.  In her ability case she can now hold to cast to mind control a small group of enemies at half the duration a single target would get.  This would remove DE's current choice as her augment currently boosts damage.  The second choice (and my preferred one)  Would change her augment but keep DE's interaction.  This augment would make it so when her mind control target dies it emits a pulse that "infects" a group of enemies.  Those enemies will slowly de aggro and be in an un alerted state for a forced 15 seconds.

 

Second ability:  I have two suggestions here.  First one keeps the current animation.  Has a new behavior.  You can one hand cast like normal.  Or use two hands via hold to cast which causes nyx to "spin" and throw out a 360 AoE of these bolts.  Enemies hit by these bolts draw aggro from other enemies.  Augment is changed to put enemies hit by bolts to be frozen in an unalert state as if their mind has been shattered.  The second one is a brand new ability.  All mighty push.  It forces the target's spirit/mind out.  Which you can destroy to do a significant chunk of the targets max health.  Augment lets you do this to multiple targets but doesn't let you destroy a portion of their health.  Instead the enemies that rag doll Stand up into a confused state where they are stunned ala blind effect.

 

My Chaos: I would like to add an effect to this ability.  The effect being enemies who target nyx or her allies (including her mind controlled target) will suffer an accuracy penalty of 50%.  Melee based enemies should get a longer wind up on their melee. 

 

Fourth ability: Absorb if it's going to stay should start out in assimilate.  You can hold to cast which drains more energy but makes you go into bubble form that expands up to a point.  DE's idea stays with this.  Tapping to cast takes you out of it with a mini radial blast like current.  Augment changes the hold to cast.  Instead of becoming a bubble you mold the absorb area into a wide cone in front of you that still functions like a normal absorb but when you let go fires that cone out in front of you.  Which not only does the damage it's absorbed but also knocks enemies over.  Throwing this out also takes you out of absorb.

New ability called "Almighty force."  Nyx forces all enemies in the AoE around her to be stuck on the ground open to ground finishers.  Cast again to end the ability early by tossing them up in the air.  Augment Instead pulls the enemies in her area towards her and holds them in a suspended state allowing them to be shields for her from damage.  Cast again to force all the enemies away from you ending the ability early.

 

Summary:  My passive essentially sort of works off the idea DE was going for.  But instead of being a hit or miss passive this one does the same job of keeping her safer in all scenarios and allowing her to be more tactical with her casting.  My preferred approach to mind control gets the best of both worlds.  DE's new interactions and also doing away with a boring augment.  Enemies alert state changing in my mind seems to fall in mind with nyx being able to effect her targets mind.  So basically pacifying a small group of enemies for a short period of time seems really beneficial in an indirect way.

I decided to take a more aggressive approach with my new abilities on her second and 4th ability.  Psychics are supposedly able to astral project and manipulate objects.  I simply put an "offensive" twist on these concepts.  Augments for both simply exist to make her less aggressive and more passive whilst keeping the whole offensive psychic idea there.  Chaos change just seems to make sense to me.  But I can see the argument for leaving it as is because the name chaos would imply not a strict benefit for you or allies.  Though on the flip side If we were to keep her 2 and 4 basically the same I made these changes for specific reasons.

With her bolts I feel like they were too damage focused and situationally utility based.  So giving her more control over people's behaviors seemed obvious.  Thus making it an actual utility ability that indirectly benefits her and allies.  On absorb I decided to go with assimilate by default because I feel like the sphere even with DE's buff to be too limiting/situational for nyx.  With my changes you get to keep DE's buff and also the niche things you used to be able to do with bubble.  But you can make bubble more consistent by making it's AoE bigger.  And the ability to walk around makes it more useful in a general sense.

I realize some of my ideas are really out there.  I had some pretty nutty ideas that I scrapped.  (probably like 15 total) simply because I didn't want to make her too flashy or step on the toes of other frames.  I tried to keep her simple but useful and most importantly far more thematic to what a psychic is capable of.  I tried to stay in line with mind manipulation but I did tip toe out of it a little.  I appreciate anyone taking the time to read my crazy ideas.  And feedback is as always welcomed~

[Nez-Kal]

Isn't there already a Megathread for these Feedbacks?
(Don't be surprised if Mods move your Topic, I guess.)

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

38 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

All mighty push

Let's plagiarize Pain from Naruto, sure lol

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

39 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Almighty force

Fracturing Crush

[Naneel]

Your overall idea looks great and defenitely better then the current one. I just have some tings I want to point out.

• Mind Control : The idea to hold for a small group to be controlled sounds good, but then you loose the Ability to end MC early, which needs to be adressed as it hinders Defense waves and Interception progression. For your augment, I am not sure what you would get from an unalerted enemy except in spy missions. Can you explain to benefit to me ?
• 2nd Ability : I like the idea to hold for 360° attack, but it also needs to spwan more bolts. They didn't mention if it stays with 6 or if it will be scalable. Why not combine both ideas and make the "all mighty push" the augment ? This would alter her skill a great deal and give her some offensive potential on her own. The idea for a blind effect is nice, but i don't zhink she needs another cc ability, so I would prefer an offensive one.

I want to add my idea for her 2nd skill as an addition and as I don't like the idea of the wind-up as it makes no sense at all to shoot someone to enhance its damage and it would also work with your idea for a small group :

• if you fire your Bolts onto your MC target, all Bolts will hit it and enhance his damage by 50% (scales with strength, max. 100%) per Bolt hit, as you overload him with Psychic Energy (I am tempted to give it either a set Duration or to reduce the remaining Duration of MC or simply kill the target after some time without being able to refresh the duration, as the damage buff could be a bit high, but this needs testing)

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

7 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Let's plagiarize Pain from Naruto, sure lol

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Fracturing Crush

Names are subject to change.  they don't need to be the same.  And I totally forgot about pain.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

7 hours ago, Naneel said:

Your overall idea looks great and defenitely better then the current one. I just have some tings I want to point out.

• Mind Control : The idea to hold for a small group to be controlled sounds good, but then you loose the Ability to end MC early, which needs to be adressed as it hinders Defense waves and Interception progression. For your augment, I am not sure what you would get from an unalerted enemy except in spy missions. Can you explain to benefit to me ?
• 2nd Ability : I like the idea to hold for 360° attack, but it also needs to spwan more bolts. They didn't mention if it stays with 6 or if it will be scalable. Why not combine both ideas and make the "all mighty push" the augment ? This would alter her skill a great deal and give her some offensive potential on her own. The idea for a blind effect is nice, but i don't zhink she needs another cc ability, so I would prefer an offensive one.

I want to add my idea for her 2nd skill as an addition and as I don't like the idea of the wind-up as it makes no sense at all to shoot someone to enhance its damage and it would also work with your idea for a small group :

• if you fire your Bolts onto your MC target, all Bolts will hit it and enhance his damage by 50% (scales with strength, max. 100%) per Bolt hit, as you overload him with Psychic Energy (I am tempted to give it either a set Duration or to reduce the remaining Duration of MC or simply kill the target after some time without being able to refresh the duration, as the damage buff could be a bit high, but this needs testing)

For your first point you are correct.  That is why I wanted to go with changing the augment instead.  Forcing the enemies to not be aware for a specific period of time basically benefits you both with extra damage since stealth multipliers and they're also not shooting at you which is nice.

For my psychic bolt idea yes it would be throwing more than 6 bolts out if you did the 360 degree fan.  We could do that instead of the aggro part of my change sure.  It's been suggested before to allow her bolts to seek out chaosed/mind controlled targets to do something to them specifically because they're under the effect of her abilities.  I think the common issue brought up against this is that psychic bolts is mostly an ability that behaves on it's own movement wise.  So trying to get it to target essentially an ally or specific targets might be difficult coding wise for DE.

Thanks for the feedback!