Balancing Soma

[PeripheralVisionary]

I agree. Leave it be. I just can't understand people who want nerfs in a pve game. No matter how hard I try, I just can't wrap my head around this sort of reasoning. I mean, if Alad V is complaining that a weapon is too good, I'd understand. But we have excaliburs and rhinos roaring for nerfs on their own weapons.

And the soma isn't as unreasonably powerful as people claim.They're just butthurt that it performs as well as their hard-earned clan weapons (looking at you supra). In this case, DE should buff these those other weapons instead. Or at the least, make it harder to obtain the soma as was suggested by other posters.

Because some things need nerfs.

The whole armor balances exist to make sure armor ignoring weapons are not the only viable weapons ingame. And having a one shot kill nuke of a thousand banshee screens that leaves napalm that does a billion dmg a second is not game breaking.

*Sarcasm

Believe it or not, balance is needed in PVE too.

Edited September 17, 2013 by PeripheralVisionary

[LazyKnight]

Because some things need nerfs.

The whole armor balances exist to make sure armor ignoring weapons are not the only viable weapons ingame. And having a one shot kill nuke of a thousand banshee screens that leaves napalm that does a billion dmg a second is not game breaking.

*Sarcasm

Believe it or not, balance is needed in PVE too.

Soma is not OP, I have one that has 3 forma and all best in slots mods. It runs out of ammo if used often on thing that have decent health pools. Things that need nerfs are the AOE skills that nuke everything with 20 meters that do not take any skill or planning to execute. DE does a far better Job with weapon balance than they do with warframe's skills.

 

Co-Op needs rework and a party of 4 needs far more of a handicap such as 50% less damage because there are 4 people. This is beyond the level of NPC they just need to have a damage suppression on parties so groups can not steam roll everything. Solo is very well balanced compared to the Co-Op in this game, with nothing at all standing out as overpowered. I have come to the conclusion that DE is very good at making single player games, but needs to figure out how to make party gameplay as fun as their single player or solo mode.

Edited September 17, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Soma is not OP, I have one that has 3 forma and all best in slots mods. It runs out of ammo if used often on thing that have decent health pools. Things that need nerfs are the AOE skills that nuke everything with 20 meters that do not take any skill or planning to execute. DE does a far better Job with weapon balance than they do with warframe's skills.

 

Co-Op needs rework and a party of 4 needs far more of a handicap such as 50% less damage because there are 4 people. This is beyond the level of NPC they just need to have a damage suppression on parties so groups can not steam roll everything. Solo is very well balanced compared to the Co-Op in this game, with nothing at all standing out as overpowered. I have come to the conclusion that DE is very good at making single player games, but needs to figure out how to make party gameplay as fun as their single player or solo mode.

Well... This is unrelated to the topic but. I happen to have more than 200 rifle ammo boxes, and when I use soma on Rhino, I feel like a heavy machine gunner.... It's fun.

[PeripheralVisionary]

I'm not stating its Op, I'm stating the reason nerfs are needed in pve games.

[S3ven0F13]

I was asking if you were mad. It seems you thought I was trolling. You gave your own implication to my simple question. Which implies that you either experienced attempts of trolling, or you're excited.

Yeap people dont ask that unless theyre trying to troll usually, my bad. no im not mad im actually watching Hangover 3 atm so im kinda in a good mood.

[S3ven0F13]

Well... This is unrelated to the topic but. I happen to have more than 200 rifle ammo boxes, and when I use soma on Rhino, I feel like a heavy machine gunner.... It's fun.

Hell YES!!! 

 

Soma is not OP, I have one that has 3 forma and all best in slots mods. It runs out of ammo if used often on thing that have decent health pools. Things that need nerfs are the AOE skills that nuke everything with 20 meters that do not take any skill or planning to execute. DE does a far better Job with weapon balance than they do with warframe's skills.

 

Co-Op needs rework and a party of 4 needs far more of a handicap such as 50% less damage because there are 4 people. This is beyond the level of NPC they just need to have a damage suppression on parties so groups can not steam roll everything. Solo is very well balanced compared to the Co-Op in this game, with nothing at all standing out as overpowered. I have come to the conclusion that DE is very good at making single player games, but needs to figure out how to make party gameplay as fun as their single player or solo mode.

Plus ive noticed Supra kills things quicker than soma while using less bullets when i test them both out on my rhino. tbh I think strun wraith needs its crit chance more than it does, 25% with the rifle mods would be more than enough, but with the shotgun mods, 20% is kinda eck. but i think ive swayed off topic a bit.

Edited September 17, 2013 by S3ven0F13

[Mythblaze]

Reduce the base critical rate to 20% and lower the fire rate to 6.3 (same as MK1-Braton).

Why don't you get a clue. Most of the people complaining about the Soma have no clue.

[syle]

No.

[Saenol]

Soma is not OP, I have one that has 3 forma and all best in slots mods. It runs out of ammo if used often on thing that have decent health pools. Things that need nerfs are the AOE skills that nuke everything with 20 meters that do not take any skill or planning to execute. DE does a far better Job with weapon balance than they do with warframe's skills.

 

Co-Op needs rework and a party of 4 needs far more of a handicap such as 50% less damage because there are 4 people. This is beyond the level of NPC they just need to have a damage suppression on parties so groups can not steam roll everything. Solo is very well balanced compared to the Co-Op in this game, with nothing at all standing out as overpowered. I have come to the conclusion that DE is very good at making single player games, but needs to figure out how to make party gameplay as fun as their single player or solo mode.

 

Are you aiming for weak points with your Soma? It's got the accuracy to hit them, and ignoring this is wasting much of it's potential. It can certainly run out of ammo in higher rank content, but it kills faster than almost any other primary.

 

As for the rest, I old exactly the opposite opinion.

 

I have very little problems with the balance of the frames; they all have uses, and each and every one can be made viable. However, the weapons are a complete mess; secondaries (and their mods) near universally outclassing primaries, longswords that no one has any reason to use, "exclusive" weapons that were laughably easy to obtain, highly erratic tiers, and many weapons having no real niche at all. Additionally, there is no context, no rhyme or reason, to the capabilities of these weapons. Their appearance is almost completely divorced from their effects in many cases. This is rather tolerable for frames with magical (and pseudoscience is synonymous with magic) abilities, but less so for weapons meant to bear at least passing resemblance to actual tools.

 

I also despise difficulty scaling based on number of players.

[Shadowsword8]

I am a (relatively) new player, mastery 2, currently breaking my index finger with a Latron, because when you don't have serration, dual chamber and other high-end mods, all the full auto primary weapons are completely subpar even again lv30 npcs.

 

Then comes the Soma, which seem downright OP compared to what I have access to. Does it need a nerf? Maybe, maybe not, I'll let wiser heads decide. But I wouln't like for just the mastery requirement to be increased, because it would still leave, for low-ranked players like me, the Latron as the One And Only Good Primary weapon, and the rest would just be semi-crap gear you have to use anyway to grind you level...

Edited September 17, 2013 by Shadowsword8

[PeripheralVisionary]

I am a (relatively) new player, mastery 2, currently breaking my index finger with a Latron, because when you don't have serration, dual chamber and other high-end mods, all the full auto primary weapons are completely subpar even again lv30 npcs.

 

Then comes the Soma, which seem downright OP compared to what I have access to. Does it need a nerf? Maybe, maybe not, I'll let wiser heads decide. But I wouln't like for just the mastery requirement to be increased, because it would still leave, for low-ranked players like me, the Latron as the One And Only Good Primary weapon, and the rest would just be semi-crap gear you have to use anyway to grind you level...

Level up then.

[Kolos1001]

Not OP. Just too easy to get. Increase mastery rate and change the materials required to something harder to get. The gun itself is pretty balanced compared to other weapons. If you have super mods to make full use of the polarity slots it's gonna feel strong because...you've already put time into getting maxed mods. I could probably 2 shot lvl 60s with a mk1-braton with maxed mods and formas.

[Lysander26]

WHY?! This thing is SO MUCH FUN! A viable assault rifle!

 

Don't nerf me bro!

[Kitzun]

I am a (relatively) new player, mastery 2, currently breaking my index finger with a Latron, because when you don't have serration, dual chamber and other high-end mods, all the full auto primary weapons are completely subpar even again lv30 npcs.

Make a boltor, for a low level it's golden if one learn to manage projectiles travel time.

If you want a long range tool then pair it with a Lex for sniping.

And farm a serration and a hornet strike, they are only uncommon and they add to the base damage type of the weapon, all other mods dote upon them.

[g0thv4mp1r3]

As I've said before, "there's nothing wrong with a weapon dealing end-game damage.  The problem is when an early-game weapon is dealing end-game damage."  Make the Soma end-game and we've got a deal.

 

Normally I'm a proponent of nerfs, but the fact is, the Soma asserts itself as on-par with the best primaries in the game:

 

Strun Wraith

Flux Rifle

Supra

Lanka

Snipetron Vandal

 

It is incredibly powerful.  There's nothing wrong with that.  The problems are this:

 

1. I does WAAAAAAAY too much damage for its mastery/resources

2. It out DPS's the Supra and when anywhere close to maxed is more ammo efficient as well.

 

Now, let's consider the two options, keep it powerful or nerf it.

 

1. If we keep it powerful, we'll have a gun that finally is an endgame primary that isn't a reward for an event or from clan research.  Even for those of us that already have those, we'll have more options for high-level content (because right now, we just don't).

2. If we nerf it, we'll have a wind-up Grakata.  Take that as you will.

 

Personally, I'd rather keep it powerful.  As such though, we need some way of justifying its power.  I suggest the following:

 

1. Mastery-lock it at 7.

2. Increase resource cost dramatically (this is the best non-event/non-clan primary, it can afford to cost a ton).  I'm talking something like 20 morphics, 8k Salvage, 400 Plastids, and 2 Orokin Cells.

3. Buff the Supra's damage to make it more ammo efficient and higher DPS than the Soma so you have a tradeoff between them: raw short-ranged DPS on Supra, ranged DPS on Soma.

 

Thoughts?

here is a thought :P i agree with u but increase the cost even more something like:

 

25 morphics 35 control modules 500 plastids 10 orokin cells

 

this way ppl can't complain it's to cheap and it's allmost as hard to craft as an Prime weapon or Clan weapon

[Kitzun]

25 morphics 35 control modules 500 plastids 10 orokin cells

Ludicrous, it's a tier 5+ weapon cost you're asking for.

[Revel72]

500 plastids cost would be a bit ridiculous but demandign 25 morphics is not bad for me I have 117 of those. Let me give you proper recipe for Soma.

 

8 Neurodes, 800 Rubedoes, 25 morphics and 20 gallium. Now that would be a recipe what I would do. Even if I am loose on rubedoes.

[Soulie]

Reduce the base critical rate to 20% and lower the fire rate to 6.3 (same as MK1-Braton).

@(*()$ troll.

[Soulie]

Have any of you guys taken into account the long reload speed and how it goes to ammo quite fast?  You guys just aren't used to a weapon with a new mechanic like this.

 

Secondaries such as Acrid and Despair still outperform the Soma.  I don't get why everyone wants to nerf it.

 

There's a reason the bullet damage is only 10.  It was meant to be a CRIT gun.

[Grulos]

500 plastids cost would be a bit ridiculous but demandign 25 morphics is not bad for me I have 117 of those. Let me give you proper recipe for Soma.

 

8 Neurodes, 800 Rubedoes, 25 morphics and 20 gallium. Now that would be a recipe what I would do. Even if I am loose on rubedoes.

Not everyone has 100+ morphics...

[Saenol]

Have any of you guys taken into account the long reload speed and how it goes to ammo quite fast?

 

Faster reload, and more ammo efficient than Gorgon or Supra.

 

 

Secondaries such as Acrid and Despair still outperform the Soma.  I don't get why everyone wants to nerf it.

 

Virtually ALL of my secondaries outperform Soma.

 

I've been advocating a dramatic nerf to secondaries in general for quite a while.

[jmthebigman]

Ive never upvoted so many posts on the front page of a topic....

DO NOT NERF IT... we finally get something which doesnt need rainbow built and is something different and you wanna gimp it back to rainbow...

 

Ill give you ingame a rope, please hang the frame you were using when you thought about this, cause for sure it got a malfunction.

[PROteinxstack]

Ive never upvoted so many posts on the front page of a topic....

DO NOT NERF IT... we finally get something which doesnt need rainbow built and is something different and you wanna gimp it back to rainbow...

 

Ill give you ingame a rope, please hang the frame you were using when you thought about this, cause for sure it got a malfunction.

 

 

I agree, please don't nerf.  The weapon is perfect the way it is.  It is powerful, yes.  But it requires a lot of control and endurance to make it effective at higher levels unless you've sacrificed damage for ammo drum or have tons of ammo packs.  There are only 6 magazines to this rifle and it has a fire-rate of 15!!!!  That burns through a magazine very quickly.  If you aren't careful, you can deplete all your ammo within a few rounds of high level defense.  Right now we all have tons of rifle ammo packs and ammo mutators, but what about all the new players from this day on?

[Numot]

Faster reload, and more ammo efficient than Gorgon or Supra.

That's basically everything not a gorgon or supra. Personally I've always viewed both of those weapons as trash due their drawbacks.

 

I still don't see the Soma as close to too good. The stagger tends to get on my nerves and the weapon tends to waste ammo since your rolling for crits all the time, rather than knowing how many bullets it takes to drop a guy. The only practical application of the gun is on fat targets that you want to burn down, as killing grunts with it just burns through ammo.

[Saenol]

That's basically everything not a gorgon or supra. Personally I've always viewed both of those weapons as trash due their drawbacks.

 

I still don't see the Soma as close to too good. The stagger tends to get on my nerves and the weapon tends to waste ammo since your rolling for crits all the time, rather than knowing how many bullets it takes to drop a guy. The only practical application of the gun is on fat targets that you want to burn down, as killing grunts with it just burns through ammo.

 

It's more ammo efficient than all bullet based rifles, excepting the Snipers, because it does more damage per shot than all of them. Even the Latron Prime is less efficient. A 3.0 second reload is fairly trivial when you have a 100 round magazine and thus only need to reload a quarter to half as often.

 

What stagger?

 

You are completely wrong about killing Grunts with Soma being a waste of ammo. Point at head, shoot 2-3 times, move to next target. The crit chance is 87.5%. If you rely on Split Chamber to give you an extra bullet, you can rely on Soma to deal a crit. In the rare cases when it doesn't, using an extra shot of the 640 you start with, is not going to be a big deal.

 

Soma is flatly better, in any and all roles, than any non-clan (and several clan) weapons that use Rifle ammo. It's better at suppressing fire than Supra, and better at sniping than Latron Prime.

 

The only reason it's not "too good" is because Secondaries and their overweight mods so completely dominate the game.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Saenol